Hello,

I'm writing this because i am concerned for all the souls who worship sunday as the sabbath day. If you go to this web site.

http://benabraham.com/html/universal_syste..._forced_wor.htm

It will take you to a site that interprets the bible like i've never seen. It's amazing and factual and makes a whole lot of sence if you look at it with an open mind.

Satan will try anything to take you away from God and he did do anything.

I love you all and need you to see this. tell your friends.


Also leave honest commentary.l

Jason, Christians worship on Sunday because that was the day that Christ rose from the dead. Zacharia foretold that the sabbath day would be moved to the sabbath day of the "Feast of Booths" (as known by Jews). My Bible calls it the "Feast of Tabernacles". During the Feast of Booths, the ancient Jews practiced their sabbath on the first day of the week rather than the last day of the week. Read Zacharia 14:16-19.

peace, sojourner

Yes, it does say that in Zechariah. So the whole of the Catholic SUnday worship relies on one piece of text in Zechariah. Does it say this anywhere else? Show me.

Credit to you that it does say this but, where in the bible does it say that the bible does it say it be Sunday. It doesn't make much sence that the whole thought of Sunday being the sabbath because of a few words in Zechariah. Please show me more.


Oh, and dont' the Jews worship Saturday as Sabbath?


Matthew 28: 1"In the end of the Sabbath, as it began to dawn toward the first day of the week, came Mary Magdalene and the other Mary to see the sepulchre."

Mark 16:2: "And very early in the morning, the first day of the week, they came to the sepulchre at the rising of the sun."

Mark 16:9: "Now when Jesus was risen, early the first day of the week, He appeared first to Mary Magdalene, out of whom He had cast seven demons."

Need more proof that Saturday's the Sabbath? I'm sure Jesus Would know when the Sabbath was.

http://www.cgi.org/booklets/sabbath.cfm

But of what day is Jesus Lord? Turn to Mark 2:27: "And He said unto them, the Sabbath was made for man, and not man for the Sabbath: Therefore the Son of man is Lord also of the Sabbath"! (Mark 2:27,28).

Why would God want the Sabbath Changed? He finished creating the world on the Seventh day, not the first. Even Genesis talks about that. I don't think i have to prove anymore.

"And the Eternal spake unto Moses, saying, Speak thou also unto the children, saying, Verily my Sabbaths shall ye keep: for it is a sign between me and you throughout your generations; that ye may know that I am the Eternal that doth sanctify you.


"It is a sign between me and the children of Israel forever: for in six days the Eternal made heaven and earth, and on the seventh day He rested and was refreshed" (Exodus 31:12-17).

Now turn to Isaiah 56 and notice the setting of this chapter.
God says, "Thus saith the Eternal, keep ye judgment and do justice for my salvation is near to come, and my righteousness to be revealed.
"Blessed is the man that doeth this, and the Son of man that layeth hold on it; that keepeth the Sabbath from polluting it, and keepeth his hand from doing any evil.
"...for thus saith the Eternal unto the eunuchs that keep my Sabbaths, and choose the things that please me, and take hold of my covenant;
"Even unto them will I give in mine house and within my walls a place and a name better than of sons and daughters: I will give them an everlasting name that shall not be cut off.
"Also the sons of the stranger, that join themselves to the Eternal, to serve Him, and to love the name of the Eternal, to be His servants, everyone that keepeth the Sabbath from polluting it, and taketh hold of my covenant;
"Even them will I bring to my holy mountain, and make them joyful in my house of prayer: their burnt offerings and their sacrifices shall be accepted upon mine altar; for mine house shall be called an house of prayer for all people.
"The Lord Eternal which gathered the outcasts of Israel, saith, yet will I gather others to Him, besides those that are gathered under Him" (Isaiah 56: 1-8).

Dear Jason, I don't understand why it would have to say it anywhere else. What are you saying about Zacharia and his words? Are you saying that he was referring to something else? If so, what? Or maybe you are saying that these verses are trivial or meaningless? I don't get what you are saying. You ask why God would change the sabbath. I ask why would God do anything He does? Some things are elementary while others are quite profound. Maybe God has yet to reveal this to you.

I never said that the Jews practiced the sabbath every Sunday. Only that there was a period every year at harvest time that they practiced sabbath on Sunday. Which incidentally is the first day of the week. Saturday is the seventh day. You seemed slightly confused in your quotations of Mark. Jesus rose early on the first day of the week. And so began God's covenant with the world, rather than strictly with the Jews. I don't mean to argue with you. Just putting information out there for all readers.

Bye, soj

For my two cents I also believe the true sabbath is on saturday. for more info go to sabbathtruth.org. Or for a video go to http://www.mostamazingprophecies.com/Resou...65/Default.aspx, and go to number 8 "bowing to babylon." The first half the sermon is singing and then talking about daniel, the second half is pretty informative about this topic. It talks about that there was no sabbath change after Jesus rose on a sunday at approx. 54.30 min.

Derek

Don't you think that it seems a bit odd that the whole Basis of Sunday Worship would be based on the words of only one prophet?

I'm not trying to hurt anyone by this. I'm just stating what so many catholics are missing. I asked a priest the other day what comes first the Bible or The Church. And he said definatly the Church. Don't you think this is absurd?

Why would what the head officials of the church place more faith in themselves than in the True words of God. I think thats putting themselves upon a pedistal, Maybe even higher than God himself. Did you ever hear the saying "This is Scripture?" or Something being refurred to as "the Bible"? This is because The bible is the only historical proofs of God's Word. Why would the Church have more authority that what's actually in the Bible.

As for the other dude that's agreeing with me. Thanks. Spread the word. Saturday has always been the Sabbath and there's oodles of fact in the bible that proves that. If you compare all the quotes about saturday being the Sabbath and all the quotes about sunday being the sabbath, Saturday comes out on top 10 fold.

Constantine made Sunday the sabbath by edict:

All judges, city-people and craftsmen shall rest on the venerable day of the Sun. But countrymen may without hindrance attend to agriculture, since it often happens that this is the most suitable day for sowing grain or planting vines, so that the opportunity afforded by divine providence may not be lost, for the right season is short. 7 March 321. CONSTANTINE'S Edict (Cod. Justinianus III xii 3)3

The bible says and the word of God is unalterable:

Exodus 20:
8Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.

9Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:

10But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:

And again in Genesis:

Genesis 2:
2And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made.

3And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made


Are you going to follow the word of man or the word of God? What day did Jesus celebrate? Be like Jesus.


Your brother in Christ,

Don

Jason,

I don't want to sound mean, but don't you think Jesus "knew in advance that man would change the Sabbath day?" I think that may have been "ONE" of many many reasons HE went to the cross for us...because HIS GRACE IS SUFFICIENT for all our mistakes! Including which day is the right day to celebrate God! So, for me "I don't think it matters to Him" just that we take one day to rest in HIM, and ALL DAYS to celebrate HIS LIFE FOR OTHERS TO SEE HIM IN US! Amen! your sis, hannah

Everyday is the Day that the Lord has made, let us rejoice and be glad in it, amen! hannah

Read what Paul had to say in Romans Chapter 14. Take what you will from this.

I get so confused, when God made the world, did he use a man made calendar that said which day was the first day and which day was the last day. The Bible says he worked for six days and rested on the seventh. So how is it that we know Gods first day of creation was in fact a Sunday. Maybe it was a Wednesday. Of course not, obviously God would conform his commands to a man made calendar. Or maybe we are to work for 6000 years and we then keep the last 1000 years holy.


How Absurd is this whole conversation. I think I just heard God say Oye-Vay.

God Bless,
Kansas Dad

half the answers are so legalistic t is REDICULIUS!

Constantine did not or ever did command a change of worship from Saturday oto Sunday. the church orf God met on Sundays, the first day of the week. IN FACT, there are TONS< TONS of early church fathers from the first thru to the 3rd centuries where they state the first day is the day they assemble...

SEcondly, the comman of God in the old testament was NOT rest on the 7th day as the calendar chooses arbitrarily to mark off days of the week..... The command is simple... work 6 days and on the 7th day (FOLLOWING 6 DAYS OF WORK) you shall rest......

According to this command, all early christians broke the sabbath command because rather than work on the first day of the week, they gathered and assembled instead! This is what legalists have to deal with.. their faluty exergesis of the text.

Paul would go to the synagogues and debate the elders becaues that was the day they gathered, he had a captive audience.....

The christian world was in persecution for about 250 years or so.. When Constantine made it ok and favorable for christians to come out of hiding, they did NOT, DID NOT come out of hiding and forced to worship in a pagan way. THAT WAS the purpose for being in hiding underground in the first place. Because they had to convert to paganism or die. Constantine took the death sentence away from christians and made christianity a legal religious entity.

And what was the first thing he did?
AFTER a few centuries of being underground, the bishops of the various reagions came togetehr for the first time, to homogenize their liturgies, to homogenize all they did. In fact, even the argument regarding the passover, it was chosen to follow a certain formulae. AS was stated in that dayt, even the jews ARGUED over the right day for passover since they couldn't even keep a correct calendar, so in part, the church chose to celebrate teh actual day of the resurrection, not the actual date....

kansas dad, you make the point I challenge all those 7th day adventists who give $10K challenges if I can prove God changed the sabbath day.

God didn't change the command of 6 days then the 7th you rest. WHAT CHANGED was which 6 days were we to work....

ALL calendars were pagan anyway, the roman one, the jewish calendar was babylonian iwth even a month named after Tammuz! amazing, isn't it....

VArious sects of jews maintained different calendars, some 30 day a month calendars, some based on the crescent moon, some celebrated the passover the day before or the day after, depending on the reckoning, there were at least 3 versions of the correct day.....

The jews started their month with the crescent moon... aka.. allah worship if one wants to be cynical since the christians worshipped on the day of the sun....

It has nothing to do iwth paganism, it was the custom of which day started teh week... READ YOUR COMMANDS AGAIN.. the 7th day is DEFINED as the day AFTER 6 consecutive days of work, (it does not identify which day is always the first..........

Chrsit resurrected on teh first day of the week reckoned by the custom of resting on SAturday... It was also declared as the 8th day!

The first day of the week can be the sabbath provided you work Monday thru SAturday..... NO COMMAND TO REST ON SATURDAY in the bible, NONE!

Man never changed the sabbath day command. HOWEVER< the early church did choose to gather on the first day of the week and chose it as their sabbath.

I presume the legalists will say the early church worked 5 days and rested on saturday and gathered on sunday, (instead of working)

SHOW ME, any one of you, WHERE GOD STATED that a particular day on a calendar would be the 7th day.

hint: there are none...........

RATHER, he gives a command about he sabbath that is NOT related to days of the week, rahter a command that is based on 6 days of work previous. that is the definition of the 7th day! PERIOD......

However, as christians, we celebrate the sabbath on the first day of the week because we honor the sabbath of God, (rest on the day following 6 days of work) AND we honor Chrsit on that same day.......... without breaking the commandment of not working on the first day.

teh legalists will never understand, nor do they want to....



btw, Mr Benoit... what came first.. the bible or the church?

THE answer, by scripture is the church. The bible was written from within the midst of the elect. THE ELECT were heer first, then the bible was written from in the midst of the elect as part of the tradition of the church. Some of it was oral and Paul quotes several oral traditions and some was written. Paul tells us to hold fast to BOTH what he wrote and what he said by mouth....... The foundation of truth , technically is NOT THE BIBLE, it is teh church. From within the midst of the church, we find the bible that was written from within the church.....

the apostles first believed, were gathered as a church, spoke orally and then, after all this, they wrote th NT. The church came first.

You cjust can't deal wiht the consequences of what that means and you need to.

LOOK UP FOUNDATION OF TRUTH in the bible....

1 Timothy 3:14-16 (King James Version)

14These things write I unto thee, hoping to come unto thee shortly:

15But if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth.

the pillar and ground/foundationi of truth is the church of God. the bible comes out from the church as a witness to what is already a truth being taught and presented orally. Much of the new testament was written as a supplement to what Paul and others already said and did in person, orally.... it was NOT the end all, ti wa a supplement to what Paul had already said. AS Paul puts it.."don't you remember I told you these things while I was with yoyu" as he states to the thesselonians...

For those that believe the only true day of worship is on Saturday...
What happened the first day that Leap Year was introduced? How many leap years have we had since that day? Wouldn't that throw everything off? I mean... every four years we're throwing an extra day into things...

For the record, I don't believe that Saturday is the only true day of worship. I have no problem with Sunday meetings or meetings on any other day. Everyday should be a true day of worship. I just believe that Saturday is the seventh day of the week (look at your calendar, it will back me up on this one) and the seventh day is the day God gave us for rest.

Sounds like 7th Day Adventist teaching... supposedly Sunday worship is the "mark of the beast".

Believers need to know this and just where SDA gets their theology:

In "Life Sketches of Ellen G. White," as published by the Adventists, we have this language relating Mrs. White's "vision" of the Sabbath day. "Elder Bates was resting upon Saturday, the seventh day of the week, and he urged it upon our attention as the true Sabbath. I did not feel its importance, and thought that he erred in dwelling upon the fourth commandment more than upon the other nine. But the Lord gave me a view of the heavenly sanctuary. The temple of God was opened in heaven, and I was shown the ark of God covered with the mercy seat. Two angels stood one at either end of the ark with their wings spread over the mercy seat and their faces turned toward it. This, my accompanying angel informed me, represented all the heavenly hosts looking with reverential awe toward the law of God ;which had been written by the finger of God. Jesus raised the cover of the ark, and I beheld the tables of stone on which the Ten Commandments were written. I was amazed as I saw the fourth commandment in the very center of the ten precepts with a soft halo of light encircling it. Said the angel, 'It is the only one of the ten which defines the living God who created the heavens and the earth and all things that are there­in."' (Pages 95 and 96.)
Ellen G. White recorded under "inspiration", "In the ark was the golden pot of manna, Aaron's rod that budded, and the tables of stone, which folded together like a book. Jesus opened them, and I saw the Ten Commandments written on them with the finger of God. On one table were Four and on the other six. The four on the first table shone brighter than the other six. But the fourth, the Sabbath commandment, shone above them all; for the Sabbath was set apart to be kept in honor of God's holy name. The holy Sabbath looked glorious ­ a halo of glory was all around it. I SAW THAT THE SABBATH COMMANDMENT WAS NOT NAILED TO THE CROSS. If it was, the other nine commandments were; and we are at liberty to break them all as well as to break the fourth. I saw that God had not changed the Sabbath, for he never changes. But the pope had changed it from the seventh day to the first day of the week; for he was to change times and laws." ("Early Writings of Ellen G. White," page 33.) Again on page 65 of the same book Mrs. White says, "The pope has changed the day of rest from the seventh to the first day."

Failure to keep this law, that was made for national Israel, would require SDA church members to be put to death. It is very clear that this law is for national Israel and not the Church. Those who do not recognize this truth are practicing replacement theology and in fact N.T. teaching refutes this practice including the keeping of the Sabbath as a requirement. If this were true you can be certain that the Apostles would have made it very clear that one must do it to be saved. None of them do.

Exd 31:13 Speak thou also unto the children of Israel, saying, Verily my sabbaths ye shall keep: for it [is] a sign between me and you throughout your generations; that [ye] may know that I [am] the LORD that doth sanctify you.

Exd 31:14 Ye shall keep the sabbath therefore; for it [is] holy unto you: every one that defileth it shall surely be put to death: for whosoever doeth [any] work therein, that soul shall be cut off from among his people.

Exd 31:15 Six days may work be done; but in the seventh [is] the sabbath of rest, holy to the LORD: whosoever doeth [any] work in the sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death.

Exd 31:16 Wherefore the children of Israel shall keep the sabbath, to observe the sabbath throughout their generations, [for] a perpetual covenant.

Neither does the Book of Revelation spell out that "Sunday" worship has anything to do with, or is the mark of the beast. This was all fabricated by EGW and included in her prophecies, writings (The Great Controversy), and teachings. I have no problem with the SDA's worshiping on Saturday and I have many friends who are members of the organization. What I do take issue with is the organization's attempt to teach and enforce this belief on others along with many of the related unscriptural doctrines that have been influenced by EGW's false teachings.

I understand that Saturday is the 7th day of the week... but what I'm asking is... what do you do with the first Leap Year and every Leap Year after that?

Leap Year was added to the calendars in 46 B.C. by Julias Ceasar.
Think about it...
Let's start with Sunday, Jan. 1 being day 1...
And continue until you get to January 31... which would be a tuesday.
Now continue into February....
and continue until the 28th, which is a Tuesday...
March 1st would then be a Wednesday.
However, if February had one extra day thrown in... then March 1st would then be a Thursday.

So... lets see, the year 0 until the year 2006, that's 500 leap years... which means there's 500 extra days that shouldn't be there... plus the years 46 BC to year 0 which is an aditional 11 leap years... so that's 511 days extra that shouldn't be there... then you'd also have to take into account the exception on leap years, so it would be slightly less than 500 extra days that have existed that shouldn't have...

You can already see how this gets confusing... so I have to ask... how do you know that Saturday really is Saturday?
By which Calendar's Saturday is truely the Sabbath? the Julian calendar? The Gregorian calendar? The Hebrew calendar? The Chinese calendar? Which one is right? Are you 100% sure that the Gregorian calendar (the one most of the world uses today) has tomorrow's Saturday as the real Saturday? Or is it possible that the calendar will say tomorrow is Saturday, but in reality the days got all mixed up from the beginning of time all the way until now?

First of all, i never expected so much responce on this topic. There are good points from both sides.

For those who don't agree just read the four gospels of the NT. They all worshiped the Sabbath on Saturday.

JESUS CHRIST, GOD ON EARTH Worshiped the Sabbath on Saturday. It was the Sabbath Then do to the actions and practices of our Lord and Savior. The Apostles worshipped Saturday as Sabbath, so i would assume that Jesus Chris our Lord did to, the Apostles did what Jesus Did.

IF this doesn't make it clear to you nothing will. God said let this day be a agreement between me and you that will go on through the generations. The sabbath day back then would certainly be the Sabbath day now.

NOTE: NO WHERE IN THE BIBLE DOES IT SAY THAT IT DOESN'T MATTER WHICH DAY THE SABBATH DAY IS ON JUST AS LONG AS YOU WORSHIP ANY DAY AS SABBATH.

The Sabbath was Saturday. Any assumptions today surounding that is simply assumptions. They changed the sabbath to Sunday because Sunday's the day the Lord rose from the Dead right? Well if it was so important to change the sabbath to Sunday, why didn't the apostles do it directley after They saw Jesus risen. Wouldn't they have been instructed by the risen Jesus that this is the new Sabbath. You will now worship Sunday rather than Saturday. It just doesn't add up/

About revelation. IT states many times that we will be judged for the desolation of the law of God. We messed it up!! we took it and made it something else

As speaking as just a layperson, how many rules did the Vatican change even in the past Hundred years? Did anyone here of Vatican II? http://www.rtforum.org/lt/lt105.html Show's us just how easily the church can change the rules.

Above all, God gave the scriptuers and laws to the people, not the other way around. I love God, and i rather follow Jesus' practices than the Churches.

Jesus was a jew and the jews still worship Saturday as the Sabbath. God always said Israel was God's chosen people, is there a connetion? maybe, but all i know is worshiping Sunday, the first day of the week, liturally and ask any priest, he'll tell you the same, is not written in the Bible. There's a specific day mentioned don't you see? It's right there in front of your blind eyes. Jesus Christ Worshipped that day, if it's good enough for JESUS, SON OF GOD, it's good enough for me.

If you think that worshiping anyday as sabbath is good than great, we don't have to worry about it, but as for me i'll stick to what i know, and cling to the path that Jesus gave and use him as an example.

Colossians 2:13-17

13 And you, being dead in your trespasses and the uncircumscision of your flesh, He has made alive together with Him, having forgiven you all trespasses.

14 having wiped out the handwriting of requirements that was against us, which was contrary to us. And He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross.

15 having disarmed principalities and powers, He made a public spectacle of them, triumphing over them in it.

16 So let no one judge you in food or in drink, or regarding a festival or a new moon or sabbaths

17 which are a shadow of things to come, but the substance is of Christ.

With much love to you all
YSIC
Elaine

Worship and praise god every day of the week.... His on his way... Then time it self will be no more....

Worship and walk with the Lord 24/7 and you won't have these problems. Neither saturday or sunday or monday avails anything at all. Ask the Lord for His Spirit and He will be with you every second of every day leading you in the path you should go.

Galatians 4
9 But now after you have known God, or rather are known by God, how is it that you turn again to the weak and beggarly elements, to which you desire again to be in bondage?
10 You observe days and months and seasons and years.
11 I am afraid for you, lest I have labored for you in vain.



Charlie

Acts 20:7
On the first day of the week, when we were gathered together to break bread, Paul talked with them, intending to depart on the next day, and he prolonged his speech until midnight.
The disciples also worshiped on Sundays...

Colossians 2:16-17
16Therefore let no one pass judgment on you in questions of food and drink, or with regard to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath. 17These are a shadow of the things to come, but the substance belongs to Christ.
The food laws of the old covenant were abolished... and this verse is saying not to let people judge us for which day we choose to observe as the Sabbath... because those things are shadows of the things to come...

I'm confused... if you follow the old laws of the Sabbath... do you follow the other 613 laws of the old covenant? If not... then how do you choose which ones to still follow and which ones not to follow?

And what about Romans 14:1-6?
1As for the one who is weak in faith, welcome him, but not to quarrel over opinions. 2One person believes he may eat anything, while the weak person eats only vegetables. 3Let not the one who eats despise the one who abstains, and let not the one who abstains pass judgment on the one who eats, for God has welcomed him. 4Who are you to pass judgment on the servant of another? It is before his own master that he stands or falls. And he will be upheld, for the Lord is able to make him stand. 5One person esteems one day as better than another, while another esteems all days alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind. 6The one who observes the day, observes it in honor of the Lord. The one who eats, eats in honor of the Lord, since he gives thanks to God, while the one who abstains, abstains in honor of the Lord and gives thanks to God.

So what difference does it make which day you worship on so long as you do it to honor God?

Furthermore, Jesus didn't "keep the Sabbath"...
Look at John 9 when Christ gives the blind man sight...
John 9:14-16
14Now it was a Sabbath day when Jesus made the mud and opened his eyes. 15So the Pharisees again asked him how he had received his sight. And he said to them, "He put mud on my eyes, and I washed, and I see." 16Some of the Pharisees said, "This man is not from God, for he does not keep the Sabbath." But others said, "How can a man who is a sinner do such signs?" And there was a division among them.
Jesus worked on the Sabbath... time and time again the Pharisees complained about Jesus performing miracles on the Sabbath... He wasn't keeping the old laws... because He came to fulfill them.

We have been set free from the law:
Galatians 5:13-14
13For you were called to freedom, brothers. Only do not use your freedom as an opportunity for the flesh, but through love serve one another. 14For the whole law is fulfilled in one word: "You shall love your neighbor as yourself."

Also, what do you make of Galations 3?
And Acts 15?

Christ said in Matthew 22:36-40
34But when the Pharisees heard that he had silenced the Sadducees, they gathered together. 35And one of them, a lawyer, asked him a question to test him. 36"Teacher, which is the great commandment in the Law?" 37And he said to him, "You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind. 38This is the great and first commandment. 39And a second is like it: You shall love your neighbor as yourself. 40On these two commandments depend all the Law and the Prophets."
It sounds to me like Christ gave us only two commands in the New Testament... and based off the previous chapters I posted, it sounds to me like Christians are no longer under the law of the old testament.

The law was fulfilled with Christ... I see no reason to believe worshiping on Saturday is any different than worshiping on Sunday.

Romans 14:1-6?
1As for the one who is weak in faith, welcome him, but not to quarrel over opinions. 2One person believes he may eat anything, while the weak person eats only vegetables. 3Let not the one who eats despise the one who abstains, and let not the one who abstains pass judgment on the one who eats, for God has welcomed him. 4Who are you to pass judgment on the servant of another? It is before his own master that he stands or falls. And he will be upheld, for the Lord is able to make him stand. 5One person esteems one day as better than another, while another esteems all days alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind. 6The one who observes the day, observes it in honor of the Lord. The one who eats, eats in honor of the Lord, since he gives thanks to God, while the one who abstains, abstains in honor of the Lord and gives thanks to God.

Good scripture ! That should settle it for every serious seeker. The problem comes when the believer cannot make the jump from Old Testament to New Testament.We cannot force the old into the new...new wine makes the old winesack crack up an spill.

So the Bible tells us that we are free to keep or not keep a day if we so please, just as long as you do it to honor the Lord.You may keep a Thursday if you please, or not keep any day. I rather look at every day to be holy to the Lord.

I also believe we should understand that "the rest" of the Lord these days (NT) talks about resting in Him every day in faith.It does not talk about a Sabbath , but we can look to the old Sabbath to teach us how to rest in the NT way...for the Sabbath is a shadow that teaches....so we now rest in faith that when Jesus said: It is finnished, He meant it , and we can now rest in all the promises, which are all Amen, in Christ.
love C


just another thought: We should not make the mistake to look at the life of Jesus as being in the New Testament. Everything changed only after His death and resurrection. NT comes after Jesus. He told the lepers to go to the priests and show themselves, like the Law commanded.

again, let those who are doing evil, do evil, and let those who do good, do good. because the day of the lord shall come as a thief in the night.

We've had enough about this topic for a while i think.

So what you are saying is that it doesn't matter what day we worship as long as we worship. Then we all shall be lifted up in the end. But in Revelation it says there won't be many who are saved because Satan will infiltrated all the nations.

Pray for deliverance

God bless all of you on our journey to the truth and to him.

Sorry, i just couldn't let this one go.

Acts 20: 7-12 reads " 7On the first day of the week we came together to break bread. Paul spoke to the people and, because he intended to leave the next day, kept on talking until midnight. 8There were many lamps in the upstairs room where we were meeting. 9Seated in a window was a young man named Eutychus, who was sinking into a deep sleep as Paul talked on and on. When he was sound asleep, he fell to the ground from the third story and was picked up dead. 10Paul went down, threw himself on the young man and put his arms around him. "Don't be alarmed," he said. "He's alive!" 11Then he went upstairs again and broke bread and ate. After talking until daylight, he left. [size=3]12The people took the young man home alive and were greatly comforted."

It doesn't state that this is a Sabbath, It would certainly state it. Notice they said on the first day of the week. From all other evidence of the bible, they would have certainly said the word "Sabbath".

Just because they broke bread and ate it doesnt' mean they were worshiping the sabbath. It just means they are human beings and ate at supper time like everyone else.

Sorry, it just doesn't say the word Sabbath in this passage.

You are right, it has nothing to do with a Sabbath. Paul teaches freedom in Christ and would never teach something else as well.
The Sabbath was intended to teach us about the rest of God. If the rest was still the Sabbath, how is it that God swears that some will never enter into it? for it would be possible for even a sinner to keep and enter into the old Sabbath. So...its not that "rest", but another "rest" ..that rest from our own works that comes through faith in the finished work of Jesus. Some cannot enter that, because they do not believe in the finished work of Jesus and so they stay outside the rest and contemplate the old legalistic Sabbath.
Ever hearing but not hearing and ever seeing but not seeing. Never able to enter into the rest, just as God promised.
Only believing the whole Word, brings understanding and only then can we enter into the real "Sabbath", the rest from ourselves and our own efforts and can we say: Praise God, He has done it all. He saved me, not my own works. His blood sanctified me, not my efforts in being good. He called me, therefor I repented (it was granted, it was a gift) Nothing our of my own...it is ALL Grace. Praise God.

That's what Romans 14:1-6 is saying... as well as the other stuff in my last post.

Please stop repeating the same thing over and over.

on the end of the sabbath, as it began to dawn on the first day of the week, came Mary Magdalene and the other Mary to see the sepulcher.

what does this prove? It's saying on the end of the sabbath, which is Saturday, as it began to dawn on the first day of the week, which was sunday morning. It's saying the sabbath was saturday. Look at your calendar.

your contradicting yourself.

Amen Cornelius
Glory to God. We are free to worship Him with every breath we take. Good to see you posting again.


Charlie

Kansas Dad....I DID hear Him say Oye-vey!

I'm am sooo with you on this one...first of all their are even "two" different hebrew calendars! We have no idea "what the heck day it is for sure"...And like I shall repeat "Everyday is a day that the Lord has made...WHY CAN'T WE ALL REJOICE AND BE GLAD IN THEM! AMEN!

And, now God is probably "laughing" at us all! And...with every right! We as mere mortals "cannot"...I repeat "cannot KNOW the MIND OF GOD". But we can play nicely and let which day "anyone" chooses to celebrate "their" sabbath day and leave them alone in "their faith and beliefs", true?

HE gives us mercy and grace to fall on our face....So each of us could at least allow each other to do the same, true?

Well your inhouse fool has nothing more to add to this discussion, so I think I will rest the thousand years! to all, hannah ALL! AMEN!

Wrong Hanna, I'm still here.

Take a look at this:
Matthew 5:
17"Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. 18I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. 19Anyone who breaks one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven.

What is so hard to understand that Jesus worshipped the Sabbath Saturday, it has nothing to do with the planets. If you want to get technical, to worship on Sunday would be Sun-worship. Which the pegans did thousands of years ago. And the sun-God was also pictured surounded by a serpent. what does a serpent represent the devil.

You guys don't understand. JESUS, WHO IS GOD WORSHIPPED ON SATURDAY!!!! IF GOD HIMSELF WERE ON EARTH AND WORSHIPPED SATURDAY WOULDN'T YOU DO IT TOO!!!!!!!!!

Jesus didn't say worship any day as the Sabbath because his actions said it all. He worshipped the sabbath on saturday.

Something else, Christianity is a little mixed up in what day is sabbath because as of right now my time it is saturday evening and i just got back from saturday mass.

So is it saturday, or sunday, well maybe saturday, no, well sunday.......you cannot worship two days of the week as Sabbath, Christianity is the only religion to worship two days.

Love of God is great, i think we all shown that we Love God today. And I Just thought that making it clear to those which Day Jesus Worshiped as sabbath would help people see that that saturday is the same day Jesus Worshiped. I love you all. Just think about it first. People made Sunday the Sabbath but God made Saturday the true Sabbath.

take it from here.....keep this going, i won't stop.

I'll stop repeating myself when you address Romans 14:1-6
1As for the one who is weak in faith, welcome him, but not to quarrel over opinions. 2One person believes he may eat anything, while the weak person eats only vegetables. 3Let not the one who eats despise the one who abstains, and let not the one who abstains pass judgment on the one who eats, for God has welcomed him. 4Who are you to pass judgment on the servant of another? It is before his own master that he stands or falls. And he will be upheld, for the Lord is able to make him stand. 5One person esteems one day as better than another, while another esteems all days alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind. 6The one who observes the day, observes it in honor of the Lord. The one who eats, eats in honor of the Lord, since he gives thanks to God, while the one who abstains, abstains in honor of the Lord and gives thanks to God.

Serously... what do you think this verse is saying? Adress it and quit ignoring it.

Right... look at those verses again:
Matthew 5:17-20
17"Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. 18For truly, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the Law until all is accomplished. 19Therefore whoever relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever does them and teaches them will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20For I tell you, unless your righteousness exceeds that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven.

Christ fulfilled the law upon His death. We have freedom in Christ.

No. Because Christ freed us from the law when He fulfilled it. Romans 14:1-6 makes it clear that it doesn't matter what day you worship on... and that post I made a while back explains how we were freed from the law through Christ's death.

But it matters not any more what day the Sabbath is... we are not bound by the law. The bible makes that clear. Seriously... read Galations 3 and Acts 15.

Thank you Nathan,

I pray that what YOU have written out here has nailed the subject on the head! You said that so well and used "great scriptures" which ooops....sometimes I forget to include those. Maybe "I" need to remember not everyone has read the bible even. So, my fault that sometimes I say what I am thinking and then not backing it with the word. Thanks for the you did! Amen! to you, your sis, hannah

Just a quick question I think for Jason..."Do you not believe that Jesus's blood atonement and covering for our faith enough to cover "any" sins mankind has made throughout the centuries?" He did say...He died for "all our sins" and He knew "way ahead of you"....ALL that would be made, so is HIS blood covering enough for our errors? No matter how blantant the sin is or even those done in secret, sin is sin, true? Okay, really this time I have no more to add.

yes, and then He died, and was resurrected and..................the New Testament started!
The new replaced the old. Praise God
C



Thanks Charlie, I am still moving house...well, I am in, but the house has no kitchen and is missing some ceilings etc so I am "squatting" with family so long.
C

Just a quick question I think for Jason..."Do you not believe that Jesus's blood atonement and covering for our faith enough to cover "any" sins mankind has made throughout the centuries?" He did say...He died for "all our sins" and He knew "way ahead of you"....ALL that would be made, so is HIS blood covering enough for our errors? No matter how blantant the sin is or even those done in secret, sin is sin, true? Okay, really this time I have no more to add. blush.gif

Ask the parents of all the child rapists or murders if they think the one who killed their child will be forgiven. Jesus says that he adds to the old testiment commandments with love your brother likek yourself. He doesn't get rid of them.

18For truly, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the Law until all is accomplished.

It says that the law will be complete when the heaven and the earth pass away. at the end.

Romans 7: 1Do you not know, brothers—for I am speaking to men who know the law—that the law has authority over a man only as long as he lives? 2For example, by law a married woman is bound to her husband as long as he is alive, but if her husband dies, she is released from the law of marriage. 3So then, if she marries another man while her husband is still alive, she is called an adulteress. But if her husband dies, she is released from that law and is not an adulteress, even though she marries another man.

11For sin, seizing the opportunity afforded by the commandment, deceived me, and through the commandment put me to death. 12So then, the law is holy, and the commandment is holy, righteous and good. 13Did that which is good, then, become death to me? By no means! But in order that sin might be recognized as sin, it produced death in me through what was good, so that through the commandment sin might become utterly sinful.

Romans 12: 17Do not repay anyone evil for evil. Be careful to do what is right in the eyes of everybody. 18If it is possible, as far as it depends on you, live at peace with everyone. 19Do not take revenge, my friends, but leave room for God's wrath, for it is written: "It is mine to avenge; I will repay,"[d]says the Lord. 20On the contrary:
"If your enemy is hungry, feed him;
if he is thirsty, give him something to drink.
In doing this, you will heap burning coals on his head."[e] 21Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.

According to these parts of Romans, he is saying that God will have his wrath on the evil ones.

You guys are saying that Sin is abolished though Christs death. If this is true, then whom will God afflict his Wrath?

The Lord's wrath will be brought upon a world of "unbelievers".... Those who do not recognize Him for who He is. They have separated themselves form His providence and direction.

Exactly, do you not call an unbeliver a sinner?

Now about sunday,

Jesus Himself warns about tampering with the Word of God as we saw in Revelation 22: 18, 19. Man is not to change or add anything to Sacred Scripture. "Add thou not unto his words, lest he reprove thee, and thou be found a liar." Proverbs 30:6.
Many are those who tell others that it was Jesus who changed the Sabbath from Saturday to Sunday, but the Bible says "I am the Lord, I change not;..."Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever."..."Therefore the son of man is Lord also of the Sabbath day." Malachi 3:6, Hebrews 13:8, Mark 2:28.

I belive Jesus's teachings. I don't understand people taking the words of an apostle rather than our Lords. Lord taught the apostles not the other way around.

Jesus is our example. He came down from Heaven to show His people how to live and the right road that will lead to eternal life. "Then spake Jesus again unto them, saying, I am the light of the world: he that followeth me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life." John 8:12. If we claim to be Christians we claim also to be His followers. "He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked." 1.John 2:6. In other words, if you say you are Christian, you are to walk in Christ's footprints.

Jason,
For the 3rd or 4th time I'm going to ask you what this means:

Romans 14:1-6
1As for the one who is weak in faith, welcome him, but not to quarrel over opinions. 2One person believes he may eat anything, while the weak person eats only vegetables. 3Let not the one who eats despise the one who abstains, and let not the one who abstains pass judgment on the one who eats, for God has welcomed him. 4Who are you to pass judgment on the servant of another? It is before his own master that he stands or falls. And he will be upheld, for the Lord is able to make him stand. 5One person esteems one day as better than another, while another esteems all days alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind. 6The one who observes the day, observes it in honor of the Lord. The one who eats, eats in honor of the Lord, since he gives thanks to God, while the one who abstains, abstains in honor of the Lord and gives thanks to God.

Just humor me and tell me what you think this verse means. Please.

you will find this request is one of the most difficult ones , on any Christian forum. They will ignore the scripture with the answer, in favour of a doctrine,

This Sabbath issue has been discussed so many times on this forum, and nobody changes their minds about it. Those who want to stick to the old Israeli laws, will continue to do so, even if they are not Israel.They somehow believe that becoming a Christian also takes them into the Law . They ignore writings of Paul and as stated by our friend Jason


So , Jason, you are saying that the Word is not the Word of God, and that you choose not to listen to Paul.

I think you need to start from the beginning my friend. Sort out your foundation. In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God and the Word was God.If you do not start with that and believe that, you cannot claim Christianity, because that IS what we believe.The Word Who became flesh and dwelled amongst us.
I really mean this in love and care...you need to look at it, because it is very important for your future.
C

When it comes down to it, to me the words of Jesus Christ is most improtant. I am not a Jew because they don't teach Jesus Christ.

I guess i must be crazy then. There is so much to be said about the sabbath being on saturday it's uncompairable.

I neve mentioned anything about the Sabbath being on saturday because we worship Saturn, that is conspicuation. I neve said anything about astrology. That's Not part of Christianity, which is what i was taught.

About Romans 14: 1-6. OK, i will admit that it's saying that it doesn't matter what day we worship. But I do not chose to take one small sentence (which was written much later than the Gospels of the Apostles of Jesus Christ), over the true words of Jesus. Paul says these things to the Romans, I don't particularly trust the Romans.

I'm just a 22 year old guy who doesn't think that we should be led by a church that has been charged with so much death and corruption for hundreds of years. The evidence is all there. Sorry, i shouldn't say the Church , because the church is the people, God loves the people, i should say the institution of the church, the leaders of the Church. They've made bad decisions for centuries starting wars for God. I'm sure God wouldn't encourage war.

I don't mean to offend anyone. I just think that The words of Jesus and his close deciples are what to listen to.

If anyone thinks i'm crazy, then i'm crazy, if you agree, then agree. It's known that for years the Sabbath was Saturday and it says so a number of times in the bible.
for example
Mark 16:1When the Sabbath was over, Mary Magdalene, Mary the mother of James, and Salome bought spices so that they might go to anoint Jesus' body. 2Very early on the first day of the week, just after sunrise, they were on their way to the tomb 3and they asked each other, "Who will roll the stone away from the entrance of the tomb?"

It says when the Sabbath was over. Very early on the first day of the week they went to the tomb.

If the law was fulfilled after Jesus' death, fine, i agree, but no where does it say "Let us worship a new sabbath day, Sunday the first day of the week because our Lord has risen on this day". Oh and don't forget that the Gospels were writen 45 years to around 80 years after Jesus's Death. So Why didn't they say anything about a Sabbath Change or Law change then. Can anyone explain This?

No were does it say this and until it does, I now will always believe that Saturday is the True Sabbath as you will always believe that Sunday is the true sabbath.

With Respect and Admiration
Jason

jason-
Romans 14: 1-6 says NOTHING about which day to worship. It it speaking of esteeming certain days over others in the same breath that he is speaking of eating and not eating certain foods.

Reread it. Seems to me Paul may be speaking of fasting and how and when people chose to fast.

If you think the Bible ever contradicts itself, prayerfully look and study again. It NEVER contradicts itself. But humans do.

As you said, there are more than ample verses to show when the Lords Sabbath is. And all of Pauls writings are cohesive as well. But Satan is the master manipulator and master deciever. He knows the scriptures better than we do. And sought (successfully ) to change the laws and days.

The key to Truth is to prayerfully search, line upon line, precept upon precept. Dont search looking to back up what you've been taught of men. Search with the leading of the Holy Spirit, an open mind to the truth, and diligence.

I admire your (and everyones!) love and fervor for Yahweh.

Cling tight to Him!
lov4all

I hope the quotes are working but if not. Jason, I am not referring to the "unbelievers"...just HIS own. Sorry, I didn't make that very clear did I? And I guess I should mention that I mean "those who have repented of their sins, totally surrendered and love Him in blind faith"! AMEN! For those who are His children...HIS BLOOD COVERS ALL OUR SINS, amen and amen. Now, if you are not a child of the Lords...those are the ones who will see His wrath, sorry to say, but the truth, but of course we can still pray for those "lost" in this worlds darkness and pray them into His glory, amen! in His love for us all, hannah

So we should only follow 5% of the Bible's teachings and throw out the rest? Seeing as how the other 95% is the words of the disciples?

So... you admit that this verse is saying that it matters not which day you choose to worship... yet you choose to believe it?
Furthermore, it's not just "one small sentence"... we are not under the law
Romans 6:14-15
14For sin will have no dominion over you, since you are not under law but under grace. 15What then? Are we to sin because we are not under law but under grace? By no means!

Galations 3:23-26
23Now before faith came, we were held captive under the law, imprisoned until the coming faith would be revealed. 24So then, the law was our guardian until Christ came, in order that we might be justified by faith. 25But now that faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian, 26for in Christ Jesus you are all sons of God, through faith.

Galatians 5:16-18
16But I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the flesh. 17For the desires of the flesh are against the Spirit, and the desires of the Spirit are against the flesh, for these are opposed to each other, to keep you from doing the things you want to do. 18But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.

Galatians 2:17-21
17But if, in our endeavor to be justified in Christ, we too were found to be sinners, is Christ then a servant of sin? Certainly not! 18For if I rebuild what I tore down, I prove myself to be a transgressor. 19For through the law I died to the law, so that I might live to God. 20I have been crucified with Christ. It is no longer I who live, but Christ who lives in me. And the life I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me. 21I do not nullify the grace of God, for if justification were through the law, then Christ died for no purpose.

Romans 10:3-4
3For, being ignorant of the righteousness that comes from God, and seeking to establish their own, they did not submit to God's righteousness. 4For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes.
As well as Acts 15...
And Galatians 3...
Many times over again we are told that we are no longer under the law!

Now let me ask you...
How many of your shirts are made of Cotton/Polyester mix? How many are Nylon/Polyester mix? How many of your shirts/pants are anything other than 100% of a certain material?
The reason I ask:
Leviticus 19:19
19"You shall keep my statutes. You shall not let your cattle breed with a different kind. You shall not sow your field with two kinds of seed, nor shall you wear a garment of cloth made of two kinds of material.

Leviticus 19:27
27You shall not round off the hair on your temples or mar the edges of your beard.
So... how's your hair cut? Do you keep your sideburns... or do you get them cut off? By the way, how's your beard coming along?

Deuteronomy 22:5
5"A woman shall not wear a man's garment, nor shall a man put on a woman's cloak, for whoever does these things is an abomination to the LORD your God.
Do you think it's wrong for a woman to wear a man's shirt? Or boxers? Or t-shirt?

Deuteronomy 22:8
8"When you build a new house, you shall make a parapet for your roof, that you may not bring the guilt of blood upon your house, if anyone should fall from it.
How's that railing on the roof of your house?

Deuteronomy 22:12
12"You shall make yourself tassels on the four corners of the garment with which you cover yourself.
You do have the tassels on the 4 corners of your garments, right?

Now... the reason I ask you these isn't for you to give an answer to. But, the question I would like you to answer is: "Why pick and choose which laws you're going to follow?" As Scripture has made clear, we are no longer under the law. So, why do you insist that Saturday is the only real Sabbath? Why pick and choose this law to follow but not follow the other OT laws?

Yes, the evidence shows that we are not under the law.

But... that's not what you said earlier in your post:
You said "When it comes down to it, to me the words of Jesus Christ is most improtant."
We should listen to the entire Bible... since it was God inspired.

Yes, until Christ rose from the dead... from then on, we have not been under the law. Christ fulfilled it.

Right... and it doesn't come right out and say that we are now allowed to wear clothing of mixed fabrics and that males can shave their beards and cut their side-burns... but the Bible does say that we are no longer under the law.

Because they didn't need to come out and say it... it was made evident by the fact that the law was fulfilled with Christ and we are no longer under it.

I don't believe any one day is any holier than another.

Hi Jason. I think that you have a good attitude and that you are genuinely seeking to follow the truth. Some people come onto this forum, wanting to push a doctrine, but I do not think that you are such a person.

You must understand that in order for us to understand, we have to have our foundation correct.

I am going to give you the most valuable thing that I have learned in my Christian walk:
Before you venture out on seeking the answer to a question, first do the following:

Pray: Father, please allow me to see this truth. Open the Scriptures to me and open my heart and understanding, so that I might see.I know that You have wisdom in Your Word that only the Holy Spirit can quicken to my understanding. Thank you that I will receive it from You, because Your Word says that if anybody should lack wisdom, he should ask and that You will freely give. Thank you that Your Word also says that we will receive if we ask. I thank You for opening my understanding now and that You will lead me into all truth. Your Word is the Truth and the lamp for my feet. Please teach me about the Sabbath rest. I will not get my understanding from men, but only from You. In Jesus Name. Amen

Now, you will receive the understanding you seek Jason. Wait on the Lord and allow Him to do this in His time. He will ...you will see....but He wants to be asked and not ignored.
in Christ
your brother
C

I thank you for all your gracious replies.

Especially Love4all's you have great understanding and patients.

As for others, again i respect your comments. But the Only law that i was speaking of is of the 10 commandments which is taught plainly in catholic church today. You are not correct in making judgments about what i am trying to display to you.

I am looking at catholic dogma today using dogma of the past. The Sabbath day is in The 10 Commandments which is taught by the church. Why hasn't that law been abolished as well can you answer me that Nathan?

You spoke blindly when saying these words because the church i'm using what the church is using. An old law passed to moses. Help me out with this one.

As for the administrator, believe me i've prayed countless times on knowing the truth to God. I pray almost evey night, to know the truth that will lead me to Him. Though Thank you for your kind words.

I'll answer your question even though you didn't answer mine.

I believe it can be argued that we are no longer held to the 10 commandments. Now, before anyone has a heart attack on me let me explain.

Look at what Christ said in Matthew 22:34-40
34But when the Pharisees heard that he had silenced the Sadducees, they gathered together. 35And one of them, a lawyer, asked him a question to test him. 36"Teacher, which is the great commandment in the Law?" 37And he said to him, "You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind. 38This is the great and first commandment. 39And a second is like it: You shall love your neighbor as yourself. 40On these two commandments depend all the Law and the Prophets."

Which is shown to us again in Mark 12:28-34
28And one of the scribes came up and heard them disputing with one another, and seeing that he answered them well, asked him, "Which commandment is the most important of all?" 29Jesus answered, "The most important is, 'Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one. 30And you shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength.' 31The second is this: 'You shall love your neighbor as yourself.' There is no other commandment greater than these." 32And the scribe said to him, "You are right, Teacher. You have truly said that he is one, and there is no other besides him. 33And to love him with all the heart and with all the understanding and with all the strength, and to love one's neighbor as oneself, is much more than all whole burnt offerings and sacrifices." 34And when Jesus saw that he answered wisely, he said to him, "You are not far from the kingdom of God." And after that no one dared to ask him any more questions.

Now, as I've pointed out over and over again in this thread, we are free from the law.
Galatians 5:13-15
13For you were called to freedom, brothers. Only do not use your freedom as an opportunity for the flesh, but through love serve one another. 14For the whole law is fulfilled in one word: "You shall love your neighbor as yourself." 15But if you bite and devour one another, watch out that you are not consumed by one another.

Notice a reoccuring theme? The entire law, now fulfilled, can be summed up with two commands. Love the Lord your God with all your heart, soul, and mind... and to love your neighbor as yourself.

Romans 13:8-10
8Owe no one anything, except to love each other, for the one who loves another has fulfilled the law. 9The commandments, "You shall not commit adultery, You shall not murder, You shall not steal, You shall not covet," and any other commandment, are summed up in this word: "You shall love your neighbor as yourself." 10Love does no wrong to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

Now... let's look at the 10 Commandments:
I) You shall have no other gods before me.
II) You shall not make for yourself an idol in the form of anything in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the waters below.
III) You shall not misuse the name of the LORD your God
IV) Remember the Sabbath day by keeping it holy
V) Honor your father and your mother
VI) You shall not murder
VII) You shall not commit adultery
VIII) You shall not steal
IX) You shall not give false testimony against your neighbor
X) You shall not covet your neighbor's house. You shall not covet your neighbor's wife, or his manservant or maidservant, his ox or donkey, or anything that belongs to your neighbor.

So now, ask yourself, if you love God with all your heart, soul, and mind, and you love your neighbor as yourself, are you not still doing these things?
If you love God with all your heart, sould, and mind, will you not be following commands #1-4?
If you love your neighbor as yourself, are you not following commands #5-10?

I'm sorry Nathan,

You are up against the wall in this one. If you should ask me this question you will be asking the very same to the church that you love and adore.

Even the Chruch teaches the commandments.

True if you love God and You love your neighbour you are fulfilling these commandments, but surly there is room for error. If you are not celebrating the sabbath on the Last day of the week then you are not loving God or following the scripture because nowhere is it taught that Sunday is Sabbath. Paul, Jesus and the Apostles new this as it was taught, Saturday was
Sabbath, it was common thought at the time, Saturday was the end of the week.

I think this could go on forever.

That Web Site is :http://benabraham.com/html/universal_syste..._forced_wor.htm

"universal_system_of_forced_wor.htm"

It's comming up wrong. This should be on the end.

Someone said that we should worship the festival of tabernacles/booths. Well in John 7: 10-24 They went to the festival of booths and jesus speaks to the crowd about himself healing another on the sabbath as he did in John 5. So the Sabbath and the Festival of Booths are different days.

Also to others Jesus says in John 12: 48-50. Jesus states "On the last day the word that i have spoken will serve as judge, for i have not spoken on my own, but the Father who sent me."

This is saying that What jesus Say's and does is Gospel. He worshiped Saturday as Sabbath.

Also John 13: 34-35. Jesus said to his deciples, "I give you one new Commandment, that you love one another. Just as i have loved you, you also should love one another."

This clearly states that he did not abolish the 10 commandments but added to them.

Matthew 24: 20 -22 "Pray that your flight may not be in winter or on a sabbath." meaning that the sabbath is as just as important a day in the end of times as it was back then, when they worshipped the day on Saturday before the church changed it.

The Apostles had the same problem in their time as well. People wanted to know what laws the Gentile believers must keep. Here is the final decision, that came through the Holy Spirit.(Because Gentiles were never bound by Jewish laws, they wanted to know if they must now also keep all the laws)


Acts15:

24As we have heard that some persons from our number have disturbed you with their teaching, unsettling your minds and [e]throwing you into confusion, although we gave them no express orders or instructions [on the points in question],

25It has been resolved by us in assembly to select men and send them [as messengers] to you with our beloved Barnabas and Paul,

26Men who have hazarded their lives for the sake of our Lord Jesus Christ.

27So we have sent Judas and Silas, who themselves will bring you the same message by word of mouth.

28For it has seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us not to lay upon you any greater burden than these indispensable requirements:

29That you abstain from what has been sacrificed to idols and from [tasting] blood and from [eating the meat of animals] that have been strangled and from sexual impurity. If you keep yourselves from these things, you will do well. Farewell [be strong]!

30So when [the messengers] were sent off, they went down to Antioch; and having assembled the congregation, they delivered the letter.

31And when they read it, the people rejoiced at the consolation and encouragement [it brought them].