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From the BBC News online...

link to article: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/magazine/5406552.stm

How can limbo just be abolished?
WHO, WHAT, WHY?
The Magazine answers...



The notion of limbo has long been problematic for the Church
The Pope may be about to abolish the notion of limbo, the halfway house between heaven and hell, inhabited by unbaptised infants. Is it really that simple?

Pope Benedict XVI's anticipated pronouncement on limbo will have been informed by the International Theological Commission - a group of leading Roman Catholic theologians who have been meeting to consider the issue.

The Pope, himself, has been quoted in the past as saying that he would let the idea of limbo "drop, since it has always been only a theological hypothesis".

He was quoted as saying that limbo has never been a "definitive truth of the faith".

So what is limbo?

WHO, WHAT, WHY?

A feature to the BBC News Magazine - aiming to answer some of the questions behind the headlines


Vatican to review limbo

According to the BBC's Religion and Ethics site [see internet links, right], the church held that before the 13th Century, all unbaptised people, including new born babies who died, would go to hell. This was because original sin - the punishment that God inflicted on humanity because of Adam and Eve's disobedience - had not been cleansed by baptism.

This idea however was criticised by Peter Abelard, a French scholastic philosophiser, who said that babies who had no personal sin didn't even deserve punishment.

It was Abelard who introduced the idea of limbo. The word comes from the Latin "limbus", meaning the edge. This would be a state of existence where unbaptised babies, and those unfortunate enough to have been born before Jesus, would not experience pain but neither would they experience the Beatific Vision of God.


Pope Benedict was quoted as saying he would let limbo drop, while he was a cardinal
But limbo has long been a problem for the Church. Unease has remained over reconciling a Loving God with one who sent babies to limbo and the Church has faced much criticism.

The current review of limbo began in 2004, when Pope John Paul II asked the commission to come up with "a more coherent and enlightened way" of describing the fate of such innocent babes.

This review is part of a wider re-examination of the notion of salvation that has been taking place within the Church.

Many Catholics would see the abandonment of limbo as a good thing - there is little doubt that some interpretations of the teaching may have caused untold misery to the millions of parents whose children have died without being baptised.

But there are those who argue that it is not simply a "hypothesis" that can just be swept aside; that the notion that unbaptised children do not go to heaven has been a fundamental part of Church teaching for hundreds of years.

Then, of course, there is the argument that if this can be abolished, what else is disposable?

Not popular

According to church historian Michael Walsh limbo is so unpopular it has all but dropped out of Catholic consciousness.

It has not really been standard teaching for decades and it has not been part of official teaching since the early 1990s, when it was omitted from the catechism - the Church's summary of religious doctrine.

A papal decree reversing the firm Catholic belief of two millennia that infants dying unbaptised to not go to heaven would be like an earthquake in the structure of Catholic theology and belief

Father Brian Harrison
"Most priests don't talk about the notion of limbo anymore. There is a understanding that it just simply doesn't wash with people," says Mr Walsh.

But, there are a number of conservative and traditionally minded Catholics who say they are shocked by the notion of getting rid of limbo.

Father Brian Harrison, a theologian, told the BBC News website that while limbo may have been a "hypothesis", he argues that the clear "doctrine of the Catholic Church for two millennia has been that wherever the souls of such infants do go, they definitely don't go to heaven".

He argues that this is borne out in the various funeral rites for unbaptised children practised by the Church.

"A papal decree reversing the firm Catholic belief of two millennia that infants dying unbaptised do not go to heaven would be like an earthquake in the structure of Catholic theology and belief," he said.

Some argue that the question of limbo has taken on fresh urgency because it could be hindering the Church's conversion of Africa and Asia, where infant mortality rates are high.

An article in the UK's Times newspaper this week suggested that the "Pope - an acknowledged authority on all things Islamic - is only too aware that Muslims believe the souls of stillborn babies go straight to heaven".

The theological commission ends its deliberations on Friday. Most commentators believe the Pope will not make any decision immediately. Until he does, the fate of limbo is in - well, limbo.


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It is about time the RCC gets a little closer to the biblical truth...
Humble Bob
...that's religion for ya...
Miki
Hard to discuss because it's all so far outside of scripture.

IPB Image

Maybe this game is symbolic for a philosophy that states that some people just make it in under the wire. ie How low can you go and still get in...
Pamela
Hades & the City of Refuge/Paradise....

Before Jesus Christ this is where people went to await the High Priest, (Jesus). But of course they did not know who this High Priest was at the time...When Jesus died on the cross his Spirit went into the City of Refuge/Paradise. This is also why he told the theif, "today you will be with me in paradise." Because the theif made the last minute decision to believe who Jesus Christ was/is, he was saved and upon his death he had to go to Paradise. Jesus had not died yet for their to be the way we know it today....So in reality the theif may have been the last person to go to Paradise before Jesus took it up with Him.

I have absolutely no idea why the Catholics still think there is a Purgatory/Limbo. Even though Hades is still there because Jesus only took Paradise up with Him. There is definetely a misunderstanding somewhere, but it seems quite clear that the City of Refuge spoken about in Numbers is gone because Jesus took it with him with all the Overcomers in it....

Miki
Jesus spoke to the thief on the cross and said this day you will be in paradise with me...

When he spoke to Mary after the resurrection he said...not to touch him because he hadn't yet ascended into the kingdom of heaven.

So Paradise and Heaven are two different places.
Stephen
One must understand that religious tradition in certain organizations has produced extra-biblical doctrine that is man-made theology. This is done for many reasons and they are not Scripturally directed. There is very little discussion or revelation in the Bible regarding just exactly what happens after physical death. There is more emphasis on this life and a need for salvation, and the future of the human being in the eternal state.

The subject of this post is one of these issues as I see it and the RCC is big on the organizations production of such doctrines. Adding, changing, or abolishing these minor issues is no more than just playing inside manipulations for grandstanding leadership authority to the organization's membership and for those who look on.

It would be better for the leadership of the RRC to return to sound doctrine of the Scriptures with regard to actual Biblical truths and to encourage their members to do the same. There is a huge need for many more significant modifications of the organization's teachings than trying to find out and define what happens between physical death and final destination. Paul explains it in a very simple way in the N.T. and says that one sleeps until the Lord returns for believers at His "harpazo", or until His great white throne judgment at the end of His millennial Kingdom.
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