Vatican City (AsiaNews) – Suffering is not “the last word” in the history of the world and the Church, but a “point of passage towards happiness and, even it [suffering] is already mysteriously soaked” with “joy” and “hope”: Benedict XVI spoke these words to more than 7,000 pilgrims gathered in Paul VI Hall for the weekly audience, explaining the highlights of the book of the Apocalypse of St John, often moving away from his prepared speech to add impromptu comments.
The pope said that contrary to usual interpretation, the Apocalypse was not about an “overhanging catastrophe” or “enigmas to be resolved”. Rather it told about the persecutions suffered by Christians throughout history, aiming to instill the certainty of a “victory of the Lamb, slaughtered and yet standing upright”, becoming a comfort for Christians, especially those of Asia. The reference to Asia and persecution against Christians is above all literary: the Apocalypse, said the pontiff, “should be understood in the background of the dramatic experiences of the seven Churches of Asia (Ephesus, Smyrna, Pergamon, Thyatira, Sardis, Philadelphia, Laodicea) that at the end of the first century had to face heavy difficulties in their witness to Christ. John turned to them, showing animated pastoral sensitivity towards the persecuted Christians, who he exhorted to remain strong in the faith and not to identify with the pagan world.” But speaking then about the one of the symbols of the Apocalypse (the scroll no one could open that drove the apostle to tears, Apoc.5:4), he adds: “Probably this cry expressed the bewilderment of the Asian churches about the silence of God in the face of persecutions they were subject to then. It is a bewilderment that could well reflect our dismay in the face of serious difficulties, misunderstandings and hostilities that the Church still suffers today in several parts of the world. They are sufferings the Church certainly does not deserve, just as Jesus himself did not merit his torment.”
Speaking off the cuff, the pope continued: The “meaning of the history of mankind”, “the destiny of history” is in the hands of Jesus Christ, who the Apocalypse reveals as the “slaughtered Lamb, defenceless, wounded, dead, but upright, alive, participating in the divine power of the Father”. “Jesus, although he was killed by an act of violence, instead of collapsing to the ground, paradoxically remains firmly on his feet, because the resurrection has definitely won over death”.
The meaning of victory over persecution was affirmed by Benedict XVI when he explained the symbol of the “Woman who delivers a male Son, and the complementary one of the Dragon who has by now fallen from the heavens. Although active in the persecution of the Woman and her other children, he has now been overcome at the core and his ultimate defeat will be unmistakably manifested.” Here too, the pope talked off the cuff for a while, explaining that the Woman is Mary, but also the church “that gives birth with great suffering in every age, defenceless, weak. While she is persecuted by the Dragon, she is protected by the consolations of God. It is this woman who triumphs in the end, not the dragon.” The pope continued spontaneously: “The Woman who is persecuted appears at the end like a Bride, the new Jerusalem, where there are no more tears and everything is light, because her light is the Lamb.”
“For this reason,” continued Benedict XVI, “the Apocalypse of John, although it is pervaded by continual references to suffering and tribulations – the obscure face of reality – is just as much permeated by frequent hymns of praise that sort of represent the luminous face of history... We are faced here with a typical Christian paradox, according to which suffering is never perceived as the last word, but is rather seen as a point of passage towards happiness, and even it [suffering] is already mysteriously soaked with joy that springs from hope.”
The pope ended his reflection by explaining the last words with which “the Seer of Patmos” concludes his book, the invocation, “Come Lord Jesus”, “pulsing with anxious expectation”. Here too, the pope added a reflection on impulse, saying that this waiting had three dimensions: that of the “definitive victory of the Lord who comes and transforms the world”; the “Eucharistic, of now, in which He anticipates his final coming”; the eschatological, in which the Church says: You have already come, it is a joy for us, but come fully.” And nearly as if to express the impatience of this wait, Benedict XVI ended with a prayer: “Come Lord Jesus, come and transform the world, and may your Peace triumph. Amen.”
At the end of the audience, the pope greeted all the pilgrims in different languages. Speaking in English, he greeted a group of priests from Taiwan and members of St Mary’s Hospital of Luodong (Taiwan) as well as youth from Nanzan University of Nagoya (Japan).
http://www.asianews.it/view.php?l=en&art=7010
My fellow Believers.
Please allow me to address this speech of Pope Benedict? And please allow me to draw your attention to some of the things he said in his speech.
The Book of Revelation is a Book of prophecy. God told John to write the things which he had seen, the things which are, and the things which would take place in the future (Rev. 1:19). It reveals the future. It makes this claim in the Title--"Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of THIS PROPHECY," Rev. 1:3; and four times in the concluding chapter. Rev. 22:7, 10, 18, 19. It is the summing up and consummation of all prophecy. It is the "finality" in prophecy until Jesus comes back.
It is a book which tells of the coming wrath of God being poured out upon the world. It tells of the world’s inhabitants not repenting except for a small group of faithful followers of God, and of this awful wicked beast ruling the whole world, defying God, and shaking his fist at God. And finally, it tells of Jesus coming again, not as a Prince of Peace, not as a lamb, but as a rider on a great white horse, as a great warrior with a sword, to smite the nations. "He will rule the nations with a rod of iron, as a potter strikes a pot with iron and it just completely shatters." Rev.19:15"
It accurately foretells what will happen in the last days of history before the end of the world, happenings which will take place in connection with the second coming of the Lord, up to the final establishment of the rule of Jesus, as Lord of lords, and King of kings.
There has been no "new revelation" and those who claim otherwise are impostors and false prophets. There is no place for "additions" or "subtractions" in this Book. It opens with a "blessing" promised the reader. and ends with a "curse" upon those who "ADD UNTO" or "TAKE FROM" it. Rev. 1:3; 22:18-19.
And what, pray tell, caused most of those sufferings? Why the Catholic Church, slaughtering millions upon millions of believers who would not convert to the false religion of the Catholic Church. To be more informed, take time to read FOX'S BOOK OF MARTYRS.
Pope John Paul II reinstated the old Office of the Inquisition in 1983, led by Cardinal Ratzinger. As close as the world is to the appearance of Antichrist, I find it highly interesting that the Pope would revive the office which led the infamous Inquisitions from 1550-1850, a time period in which over 8 million Born Again Christians were martyred. I cannot but help wonder why the old Office of the Inquisition would be reinstated.
Vatican's Holocaust, page 9, (Ozark Books, 1986)
Do a little research on the history of the Catholic Church, its rituals, and its doctrines; and understand for yourself the following scripture: (Isa. 59:3,4, & 8) "For your hands are defiled with blood, and your fingers with iniquity; your lips have spoken lies, your tongue hath muttered perverseness. None calleth for justice, nor any pleadeth for truth: they trust in vanity, and speak lies; they conceive mischief, and bring forth iniquity...The way of peace they know not; and there is no judgment in their goings: they have made them crooked paths: whosoever goeth therein shall not know peace."
And how does the Catholic Church suffer? Those in the leadership of the Catholic Church enjoy riches untold, stolen from those souls who will probably spend eternity in hell because the Pagan Roman Catholic Church sold them penance for the sins they had committed with the belief it would get them into heaven.
And, go to any part of the world where the Catholic Church rules, and look at the conditions the people live while the Church continues to decorate their temples with silver and gold beyond imagination. Roman Catholicism today is the wealthiest government in the world. It owns a good share of America's hospitals and has real estate interests throughout the entire world.
If the Catholic Church believes Jesus remains firmly on his feet, then why do they have him hanging on a cross in every Catholic Church and worn around many Catholic necks on chains? The Catholic Church says it is impossible for us to celebrate the resurrection without embracing the cross. If the Catholics want to worship a risen Christ, then they need to look to an empty cross.
No, the woman is not Mary, the woman is the nation of Israel.
Revelation 12:1-6
1 Now a great sign appeared in heaven: a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet, and on her head a garland of twelve stars. 2 Then being with child, she cried out in labor and in pain to give birth. 3 And another sign appeared in heaven: behold, a great, fiery red dragon having seven heads and ten horns, and seven diadems on his heads. 4 His tail drew a third of the stars of heaven and threw them to the earth. And the dragon stood before the woman who was ready to give birth, to devour her Child as soon as it was born. 5 She bore a male Child who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron. And her Child was caught up to God and His throne. 6 Then the woman fled into the wilderness, where she has a place prepared by God, that they should feed her there one thousand two hundred and sixty days.
To understand this interpretation, see Genesis 37:5-11
Genesis 37:5-11
5 Joseph had a dream, and when he told it to his brothers, they hated him all the more. 6 He said to them, "Listen to this dream I had: 7 We were binding sheaves of grain out in the field when suddenly my sheaf rose and stood upright, while your sheaves gathered around mine and bowed down to it." 8 His brothers said to him, "Do you intend to reign over us? Will you actually rule us?" And they hated him all the more because of his dream and what he had said. 9 Then he had another dream, and he told it to his brothers. "Listen," he said, "I had another dream, and this time the sun and moon and eleven stars were bowing down to me." 10 When he told his father as well as his brothers, his father rebuked him and said, "What is this dream you had? Will your mother and I and your brothers actually come and bow down to the ground before you?" 11 His brothers were jealous of him, but his father kept the matter in mind.
Neither was it the church that gave birth.... It was Israel that gave birth to the Messiah, Jesus our Lord.....
The Roman Catholic Church has given birth, or to be more correct, has given birth to much suffering, she has been the cause of great suffering in every age. She has slaughtered millions upon millions of believers who would not convert to the false religion of the Catholic Church throughout the middle ages.
No, no woman triumphs, the Lord Jesus triumphs over the dragon. Satan, who is the Dragon, is overthrown; his followers are devoured by fire falling from heaven, and he is cast into the Lake of Fire for eternal torment (Rev. 20:9-10)
Jesus is coming, all right, but not to transform the world, and not to bring peace. Jesus is coming in Power and Glory and Wrath to destroy those who have destroyed the earth. When Jesus comes, there will be no transforming, as the righteous will already have been transformed. Matthew 24:29-31 "Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 30 Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31 And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
And Revelation 19:11-15 Now I saw heaven opened, and behold, a white horse. And He who sat on him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness He judges and makes war. 12 His eyes were like a flame of fire, and on His head were many crowns. He had a name written that no one knew except Himself. 13 He was clothed with a robe dipped in blood, and His name is called The Word of God. 14 And the armies in heaven, clothed in fine linen, white and clean, followed Him on white horses. 15 Now out of His mouth goes a sharp sword, that with it He should strike the nations. And He Himself will rule them with a rod of iron. He Himself treads the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.
Pope Benedict speaks flattering words, but much of what he says is not scriptural.
Prophecy cannot be understood unless this is taken into perspective.
Search the scriptures and see for yourself.
Your brother in Christ,
One_love
Please allow me to address this speech of Pope Benedict? And please allow me to draw your attention to some of the things he said in his speech.
QUOTE
The pope said that contrary to usual interpretation, the Apocalypse was not about an “overhanging catastrophe” or “enigmas to be resolved”.
The Book of Revelation is a Book of prophecy. God told John to write the things which he had seen, the things which are, and the things which would take place in the future (Rev. 1:19). It reveals the future. It makes this claim in the Title--"Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of THIS PROPHECY," Rev. 1:3; and four times in the concluding chapter. Rev. 22:7, 10, 18, 19. It is the summing up and consummation of all prophecy. It is the "finality" in prophecy until Jesus comes back.
It is a book which tells of the coming wrath of God being poured out upon the world. It tells of the world’s inhabitants not repenting except for a small group of faithful followers of God, and of this awful wicked beast ruling the whole world, defying God, and shaking his fist at God. And finally, it tells of Jesus coming again, not as a Prince of Peace, not as a lamb, but as a rider on a great white horse, as a great warrior with a sword, to smite the nations. "He will rule the nations with a rod of iron, as a potter strikes a pot with iron and it just completely shatters." Rev.19:15"
It accurately foretells what will happen in the last days of history before the end of the world, happenings which will take place in connection with the second coming of the Lord, up to the final establishment of the rule of Jesus, as Lord of lords, and King of kings.
There has been no "new revelation" and those who claim otherwise are impostors and false prophets. There is no place for "additions" or "subtractions" in this Book. It opens with a "blessing" promised the reader. and ends with a "curse" upon those who "ADD UNTO" or "TAKE FROM" it. Rev. 1:3; 22:18-19.
QUOTE
Rather it told about the persecutions suffered by Christians throughout history, aiming to instill the certainty of a “victory of the Lamb, slaughtered and yet standing upright”, becoming a comfort for Christians, especially those of Asia. The reference to Asia and persecution against Christians is above all literary:
And what, pray tell, caused most of those sufferings? Why the Catholic Church, slaughtering millions upon millions of believers who would not convert to the false religion of the Catholic Church. To be more informed, take time to read FOX'S BOOK OF MARTYRS.
Pope John Paul II reinstated the old Office of the Inquisition in 1983, led by Cardinal Ratzinger. As close as the world is to the appearance of Antichrist, I find it highly interesting that the Pope would revive the office which led the infamous Inquisitions from 1550-1850, a time period in which over 8 million Born Again Christians were martyred. I cannot but help wonder why the old Office of the Inquisition would be reinstated.
Vatican's Holocaust, page 9, (Ozark Books, 1986)
Do a little research on the history of the Catholic Church, its rituals, and its doctrines; and understand for yourself the following scripture: (Isa. 59:3,4, & 8) "For your hands are defiled with blood, and your fingers with iniquity; your lips have spoken lies, your tongue hath muttered perverseness. None calleth for justice, nor any pleadeth for truth: they trust in vanity, and speak lies; they conceive mischief, and bring forth iniquity...The way of peace they know not; and there is no judgment in their goings: they have made them crooked paths: whosoever goeth therein shall not know peace."
QUOTE
The Apocalypse, said the pontiff, “should be understood in the background of the dramatic experiences of the seven Churches of Asia (Ephesus, Smyrna, Pergamon, Thyatira, Sardis, Philadelphia, Laodicea) that at the end of the first century had to face heavy difficulties in their witness to Christ. John turned to them, showing animated pastoral sensitivity towards the persecuted Christians, who he exhorted to remain strong in the faith and not to identify with the pagan world.” But speaking then about the one of the symbols of the Apocalypse (the scroll no one could open that drove the apostle to tears, Revelation 5:4), he adds: “Probably this cry expressed the bewilderment of the Asian churches about the silence of God in the face of persecutions they were subject to then. It is a bewilderment that could well reflect our dismay in the face of serious difficulties, misunderstandings and hostilities that the Church still suffers today in several parts of the world. They are sufferings the Church certainly does not deserve, just as Jesus himself did not merit his torment.”
And how does the Catholic Church suffer? Those in the leadership of the Catholic Church enjoy riches untold, stolen from those souls who will probably spend eternity in hell because the Pagan Roman Catholic Church sold them penance for the sins they had committed with the belief it would get them into heaven.
And, go to any part of the world where the Catholic Church rules, and look at the conditions the people live while the Church continues to decorate their temples with silver and gold beyond imagination. Roman Catholicism today is the wealthiest government in the world. It owns a good share of America's hospitals and has real estate interests throughout the entire world.
QUOTE
Speaking off the cuff, the pope continued: The “meaning of the history of mankind”, “the destiny of history” is in the hands of Jesus Christ, who the Apocalypse reveals as the “slaughtered Lamb, defenseless, wounded, dead, but upright, alive, participating in the divine power of the Father”. “Jesus, although he was killed by an act of violence, instead of collapsing to the ground, paradoxically remains firmly on his feet, because the resurrection has definitely won over death”.
If the Catholic Church believes Jesus remains firmly on his feet, then why do they have him hanging on a cross in every Catholic Church and worn around many Catholic necks on chains? The Catholic Church says it is impossible for us to celebrate the resurrection without embracing the cross. If the Catholics want to worship a risen Christ, then they need to look to an empty cross.
QUOTE
The meaning of victory over persecution was affirmed by Benedict XVI when he explained the symbol of the “Woman who delivers a male Son, and the complementary one of the Dragon who has by now fallen from the heavens. Although active in the persecution of the Woman and her other children, he has now been overcome at the core and his ultimate defeat will be unmistakably manifested.” Here too, the pope talked off the cuff for a while, explaining that the Woman is Mary, but also the church “that gives birth with great suffering in every age, defenseless, weak. While she is persecuted by the Dragon, she is protected by the consolations of God. It is this woman who triumphs in the end, not the dragon.” The pope continued spontaneously: “The Woman who is persecuted appears at the end like a Bride, the new Jerusalem, where there are no more tears and everything is light, because her light is the Lamb.”
No, the woman is not Mary, the woman is the nation of Israel.
Revelation 12:1-6
1 Now a great sign appeared in heaven: a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet, and on her head a garland of twelve stars. 2 Then being with child, she cried out in labor and in pain to give birth. 3 And another sign appeared in heaven: behold, a great, fiery red dragon having seven heads and ten horns, and seven diadems on his heads. 4 His tail drew a third of the stars of heaven and threw them to the earth. And the dragon stood before the woman who was ready to give birth, to devour her Child as soon as it was born. 5 She bore a male Child who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron. And her Child was caught up to God and His throne. 6 Then the woman fled into the wilderness, where she has a place prepared by God, that they should feed her there one thousand two hundred and sixty days.
To understand this interpretation, see Genesis 37:5-11
Genesis 37:5-11
5 Joseph had a dream, and when he told it to his brothers, they hated him all the more. 6 He said to them, "Listen to this dream I had: 7 We were binding sheaves of grain out in the field when suddenly my sheaf rose and stood upright, while your sheaves gathered around mine and bowed down to it." 8 His brothers said to him, "Do you intend to reign over us? Will you actually rule us?" And they hated him all the more because of his dream and what he had said. 9 Then he had another dream, and he told it to his brothers. "Listen," he said, "I had another dream, and this time the sun and moon and eleven stars were bowing down to me." 10 When he told his father as well as his brothers, his father rebuked him and said, "What is this dream you had? Will your mother and I and your brothers actually come and bow down to the ground before you?" 11 His brothers were jealous of him, but his father kept the matter in mind.
Neither was it the church that gave birth.... It was Israel that gave birth to the Messiah, Jesus our Lord.....
The Roman Catholic Church has given birth, or to be more correct, has given birth to much suffering, she has been the cause of great suffering in every age. She has slaughtered millions upon millions of believers who would not convert to the false religion of the Catholic Church throughout the middle ages.
QUOTE
It is this woman who triumphs in the end, not the dragon.
No, no woman triumphs, the Lord Jesus triumphs over the dragon. Satan, who is the Dragon, is overthrown; his followers are devoured by fire falling from heaven, and he is cast into the Lake of Fire for eternal torment (Rev. 20:9-10)
QUOTE
“For this reason,” continued Benedict XVI, “the Apocalypse of John, although it is pervaded by continual references to suffering and tribulations – the obscure face of reality – is just as much permeated by frequent hymns of praise that sort of represent the luminous face of history... We are faced here with a typical Christian paradox, according to which suffering is never perceived as the last word, but is rather seen as a point of passage towards happiness, and even it [suffering] is already mysteriously soaked with joy that springs from hope.”
The pope ended his reflection by explaining the last words with which “the Seer of Patmos” concludes his book, the invocation, “Come Lord Jesus”, “pulsing with anxious expectation”. Here too, the pope added a reflection on impulse, saying that this waiting had three dimensions: that of the “definitive victory of the Lord who comes and transforms the world”; the “Eucharistic, of now, in which He anticipates his final coming”; the eschatological, in which the Church says: You have already come, it is a joy for us, but come fully.” And nearly as if to express the impatience of this wait, Benedict XVI ended with a prayer: “Come Lord Jesus, come and transform the world, and may your Peace triumph. Amen.”
The pope ended his reflection by explaining the last words with which “the Seer of Patmos” concludes his book, the invocation, “Come Lord Jesus”, “pulsing with anxious expectation”. Here too, the pope added a reflection on impulse, saying that this waiting had three dimensions: that of the “definitive victory of the Lord who comes and transforms the world”; the “Eucharistic, of now, in which He anticipates his final coming”; the eschatological, in which the Church says: You have already come, it is a joy for us, but come fully.” And nearly as if to express the impatience of this wait, Benedict XVI ended with a prayer: “Come Lord Jesus, come and transform the world, and may your Peace triumph. Amen.”
Jesus is coming, all right, but not to transform the world, and not to bring peace. Jesus is coming in Power and Glory and Wrath to destroy those who have destroyed the earth. When Jesus comes, there will be no transforming, as the righteous will already have been transformed. Matthew 24:29-31 "Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 30 Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31 And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
And Revelation 19:11-15 Now I saw heaven opened, and behold, a white horse. And He who sat on him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness He judges and makes war. 12 His eyes were like a flame of fire, and on His head were many crowns. He had a name written that no one knew except Himself. 13 He was clothed with a robe dipped in blood, and His name is called The Word of God. 14 And the armies in heaven, clothed in fine linen, white and clean, followed Him on white horses. 15 Now out of His mouth goes a sharp sword, that with it He should strike the nations. And He Himself will rule them with a rod of iron. He Himself treads the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.
Pope Benedict speaks flattering words, but much of what he says is not scriptural.
Prophecy cannot be understood unless this is taken into perspective.
Search the scriptures and see for yourself.
Your brother in Christ,
One_love
Hi and welcome to the forum 
Here is a link, if you feel led to read it, do so, otherwise ignore it.It has a different view on the woman in Rev 12. If you do read it, please let me know what you think. I finished reading the whole book in May this year and I praise God for bringing it into my life
C
http://americaslastdays.com/hm05.htm
Here is a link, if you feel led to read it, do so, otherwise ignore it.It has a different view on the woman in Rev 12. If you do read it, please let me know what you think. I finished reading the whole book in May this year and I praise God for bringing it into my life
C
http://americaslastdays.com/hm05.htm
One_love,
Excellent rendering of the Pope's discussion. Your understanding of Revelation is correct.
Excellent rendering of the Pope's discussion. Your understanding of Revelation is correct.
QUOTE(Cornelius @ Aug 26 2006, 09:51 AM) [snapback]81266[/snapback]
Hi and welcome to the forum
Here is a link, if you feel led to read it, do so, otherwise ignore it.It has a different view on the woman in Rev 12. If you do read it, please let me know what you think. I finished reading the whole book in May this year and I praise God for bringing it into my life
C
http://americaslastdays.com/hm05.htm
Thank you, Cornelius....
I appreciate the article. It makes much sense. I am going to have to mull it over for a while, but over all, it is good.
I've also sent my pastor a copy to ask for his input.
Bless you
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