In Revelation, the Bible seems to be telling us about a world wide war (World War III) that will occur during the period referred to as the ‘End times’ or ‘Latter Days’, both of which denote the end of this age, and the preparation for the ‘Millenial’ age, 1,000 years of peace on earth. Jesus spoke of these events in Matthew 24 and in Revelation (through St. John the Divine), as did many prophets. Many evangelistic preachers claim that the events of today match up with the bible’s description of the conditions as described in the bible. For example, Jesus said to look for an increase in natural disasters, and the prophet Daniel said that ‘knowledge would increase’, perhaps a reference to the information age we are in.



About 10 years ago, bible scholars found hidden messages (bible codes) within the text of the bible. There a number of these messages (on a site, Exodus2006.com) that indicate an atomic holocaust will occur in Jerusalem on Thursday (August 3, 2006), the anniversary of the day on which the first and second temples were destroyed. One message is particularly specific, indicating that Lebanon will deliver an atomic weapon via missile to Jerusalem on that day. The messages also indicate this event will initiate World War III. I cannot verify these messages first-hand, but they purport to be actual messages from God that He intended us to uncover at this time; they go on to talk about many more past and upcoming events. One code tells us that God wanted us to find these messages as a means to prove to us that He is, in fact, the creator, and that He is in control of the events of the world (and the universe) when it may appear that He isn’t. There have been a few shows on the History Channel that talk about the bible codes, and they are not without their detractors.



Anyway, the messages also indicate that a meteor or partial comet strike will occur later this year (hitting land, not the US), and that many other events will begin to occur with increasing frequency. If true, these events were foretold in Revelation, and they represent God’s wrath/judgment, and He will be using these events to bring us to Him and to repent, and many will be ‘saved’ as a result. The bible is clear that God’s rewards and punishments are great. The reward for God’s true believers will be an everlasting life on a reborn, sinless earth with God Himself. Even if there are difficult times ahead, God has given us a great reason to have hope.



Having the knowledge of revelation, through the Holy Spirit, after Jesus’ resurrection, the apostles faithfully accepted persecution and painful deaths in order to set up the churches, from which Christianity took root. Jesus warned that his followers would be persecuted, especially in the early days of Christianity and again at the end of this age. The apostles were put to death defending their beliefs, and none recanted his witness of Jesus’ resurrection. After receiving this revelation, Thomas, the doubting apostle, became a courageous man filled with belief until he was martyred. Some of this is captured in ‘Acts’, the book of the bible that talks about what happened immediately after Jesus’ resurrection. After Acts, there are many letters written by the apostles that are meant to inspire Christians to persevere. Below is a link to a resource that pulls together much of the scripture that speaks about what God has told us about Heaven. I hope it gives you encouragement.



http://www.amazingfacts.org/items/Read_Media.asp?ID=644



May God bless us, and, through the Holy Spirit, give us wisdom and strength.

NY, I hate rain on your parade, of for that matter anyone who holds the millenial view of the 1000 years of peace folks seem to interpret out of scripture.

But seriously think about it, atominc holocast, comet strike, global warming? Sounds like an awful lot of clean up from Jesus Christ just to throw it all away after a thousand years for the devil to be let loose, deceive the nations and then the world is destroyed. Doesn't make sense.

If you ask me, that 1000 years had come and gone and he ruled with an iron rod. I believe the devil has been loosed and is gathering all nations into his deception for that final hurrah.

When that first atomic bomb goes off, it's game over...

In all reality how can you say we have had 1000 years of peace already? That is in the cards. There has been no time when a child can place his hand in an adders den or a lion lay down with a lamb to my knowledge.

Wars have been fought and rumours run rampant. Seas have roared. Mens hearts are failing for fear. We have yet to go into the deep end of all this and the millenial reign is ushered in with Christ coming in great power to fight the war at Armegeddon and to say this stuff is gone past is seriously in error.

"In all reality how can you say we have had 1000 years of peace already? That is in the cards. There has been no time when a child can place his hand in an adders den or a lion lay down with a lamb to my knowledge.

Wars have been fought and rumours run rampant. Seas have roared. Mens hearts are failing for fear. We have yet to go into the deep end of all this and the millenial reign is ushered in with Christ coming in great power to fight the war at Armegeddon and to say this stuff is gone past is seriously in error."

This is truth.

Amen to that!

Your friend in Christ,
Val

Messiahiscoming

Yes that is a thing to remember too. The lion does not lay down with the Lamb.
So it couldn't have happened yet.
I must admit this millennial reign has got me confused.

So how about we do a bible study on this.
Okay, please.
Who is up for that.

Yeap, we have to learn to put aside our own idea and cling to the word of God.
May Jesus personally bless those who do so... May their rewards never perish and may they be called great in the coming age!

Notice that this will happen in the last days. The Lord has never ruled the earth from Jerusalem. He did not do it at His first coming .... He will when He returns. His law will rule and it will go forth from Jerusalem. He will not permit the nations to make war. We have had nothing but war since He left the planet 2,000 years ago.

He was asked the question as to when He would restore the Kingdom to Israel and He said it is not for you to know the time ..... He is going to do it. [Acts 1:6-7]


Mic 4:1 But in the last days it shall come to pass, [that] the mountain of the house of the LORD shall be established in the top of the mountains, and it shall be exalted above the hills; and people shall flow unto it.

Mic 4:2 And many nations shall come, and say, Come, and let us go up to the mountain of the LORD, and to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths: for the law shall go forth of Zion, and the word of the LORD from Jerusalem.

Mic 4:3 And he shall judge among many people, and rebuke strong nations afar off; and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruninghooks: nation shall not lift up a sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more.

This is kinda wierd cause I spoke with someone who believes like this. That every thing has pretty much happened. We are now just waiting for Christ to come back, destroy the world, create a new one and boom. Eternity.
Lets me ask is this the beliefs of the Church of Christ. He was a preacher of a local Church of Christ. And then I had a conversation about how someones father goes to a Church of Christ and they believe the same.
He did not believe miracles still happen, or that demons are still on earth. And there are no more gifts of the spirit, those were just for the time and purpose to prove that he was the Christ.
???

If I may, to answer all of your well meant objections, I'll share with you what has bothered me about this popular interpretation.

No where in Revelation chapter 20, which discusses the thousand years does it say, imply or infer "peace." It just says satan is locked up, unable to deceive the nations for a thousand years. So, I have my druthers when extra additions of words such as "peace" in this instance, have been made in interpreting scripture.

Secondly, Revelation 19; the iron rod that Christ rules nations with bothers me. Doesn't sound like peace to me, for what does an iron rod do but break nations and kingdoms like pieces of pottery? And how so many nations and kingdoms did rise and fall in the last thousand years that have past?

Jeremiah 51:20
Thou art my battle axe and weapons of war: for with thee will I break in pieces the nations, and with thee will I destroy kingdoms;

The Lord maketh the peace and maketh the war

Humble Bob I have thought it this way like you say too.
I must say, I have always been confused with the Millenial reign.

Hope we can study this and I will understand it more.

End-Time Calling,

"This is kinda wierd cause I spoke with someone who believes like this. That every thing has pretty much happened. We are now just waiting for Christ to come back, destroy the world, create a new one and boom. Eternity.
Lets me ask is this the beliefs of the Church of Christ. He was a preacher of a local Church of Christ. And then I had a conversation about how someones father goes to a Church of Christ and they believe the same.
He did not believe miracles still happen, or that demons are still on earth. And there are no more gifts of the spirit, those were just for the time and purpose to prove that he was the Christ"

>The belief that you are refering to here is not Scriptural. The Lord has not come back as promised and He is not ruling from Jerusalem, and the earth has never experienced a time without warfare. There are a number of denominations that adhere to this belief which is the "historical" point of view. The idea is that everything in the prophetic Scriptures has already taken place. We are told in the last days that some will say "where is the promise of His coming". Read 2Peter 3:3-4. Also read 3:10 which defines the parameters of the "Day of the Lord". This period of time is not just one day, but includes the beginning when the Lord will come to execute His hour of trial as a "thief" without warning, His 1,000 year millennial Kingdom, and then the destruction of the universe and a new heaven and earth for eternity.

Rev 20:6 Blessed and holy [is] he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

When have Christians reigned with Christ in this way? The resurrection precedes the reign for 1000 years seeing as those resurrected ones get to assist in ruling.

That makes sense.
I think I know what HumbleBob means but I can't explain it.

I was brought up in a church that did not believe in the 1000 year
reign on earth. They said when He comes back that is it. The believer
goes with Him and the unbeliever goes to hell.

So I am trying to understand according to scripture.
I would ask my old pastor well then why does it say 1000 year reign if
it is not true.
Oh the answers I got, left me totally confused on this subject.

But of course! The first resurrection was with Christ when he was resurrected

Matthew 27:51-53
And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent; 52 And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose, 53 And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.

It is no secret when the first resurrection had happened; it is as plain as day. And so when it did the 1000 years came, just as you said, my friend.

He did reign a thousand years, Rosie. His iron rod had smitten, kings, princes and captains throughout the millenium.

HumbleBob, but then when was satan bound.
He can't be bound already, or are you saying he was and is out now.
Oh boy I am really confused on this topic.

HELP!

yes, that is what I believe. He was bound and he has been let out. We live in the time of "the little season" (Revelation 20:3)

I just thought of that when I looked at that verse.
I do know he sure is out.
You are making sense to me HumbleBob.
If that is the case, then we are closer than we think.
We are farther into revelation than I thought.

We then are the revelation generation.

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He did reign a thousand years, Rosie. His iron rod had smitten, kings, princes and captains throughout the millenium.
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If the above is true then why are we battling the islamists now.

The resurection was the begining of the times of the gentiles, not a 1000 year millenial reign.

HumbleBob, are you saying that satan is bound now and
God is controlling the wars and such to fulfill His plans.
So then Jesus is riding on his white horse who judges and makes war.

[quote=diverteach,Aug 1 2006, 11:23 PM]
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He did reign a thousand years, Rosie. His iron rod had smitten, kings, princes and captains throughout the millenium.
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If the above is true then why are we battling the islamists now.

The resurection was the begining of the times of the gentiles, not a 1000 year millenial reign.
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Revelation 16:12 says

2 And the sixth angel poured out his vial upon the great river Euphrates; and the water thereof was dried up, that the way of the kings of the east might be prepared

...we battle them now as they are the kings of the east being prepared.

What are they preparing for?

And Revelation 16:13 says

And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet.

...that when these spirts like frogs came out, they are empowered to gather the kings of the earth and of the whole world for the battle of the Great day of God Almighty. The Islamist read their Quran and believe the same thing in preparing for that great day; they have even given it a name "al-qiyamah," just as you had posted, Diverteach.

...and when those frog like spirits went out, shortly there after was the devil loosed from his prison, at least that is what I believe, has and is happening.

...chapter 19 and chapter 20 read side-by-side, just like it was posted elsewhere when another believer posted the seven trupmets and the seven vials are the same but different perspectives of the plagues.

...such great mysteries, I am a pitiful learner...

So then Jesus is now riding with his rod to defeat the nations and he will rule them with a rod of iron.
This to you is happening now HumbleBob.
I am just trying get a hold on this.

I must say you are giving me something to ponder tonight.

...yes the seventh church of the millenium, the church of the Laodicea. How we are increased with riches and goods and how we are actually wretched. So many that are luke warm...

...it has happend

Psalm 2:9
Thou shalt break them with a rod of iron; thou shalt dash them in pieces like a potter's vessel.

How the Lord in his righteousness broken nation and kingdoms in the past.

And when did the Lord come to rule with an iron rod? Behold...

Revelation 2:27
And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father.

...for it was in during the second church of the millenium; during the church of Thyatira.

Yes I see this.

Can you explain Rev 20:4-6 please

HumbleBob, I've read and re-read on this and just can't see how you can blatantly re-arrange things that are clearly events that happen in succession, one right after the next.

Read Zechariah 14 and Isaiah 66 also Micah 4 for better understanding.. Christ will rule on mount zion and all nations will come and worship..

God bless love fighter of god

...only the Holy Spirit can give clarity to such things.

Revelation 20:4-6 is the very thing so many here have debated, but did not see this is the answer to the many things asked and said; where do the beliver go when they die? and where do the unbeliever go when they die? The believer is immediately received by Christ and the unbeliever sleeps.

Before Christ was resurrected all, the believer and the unbeliever slept. After the Lord's resurrection only the unbeliever sleeps, they are the rest of the dead.

Humblebob and everyone thanks for this study, thus far.
I am praying that the Holy Spirit reveals this to me.
I am really pondering what you have said HumbleBob.

I must go to bed now, but I surely want to continue this study.
Please will you all study this with me. I am so eager to understand this.

Goodnight it is late here.
Pleasant dreams everyone.

I love you all,
from,
rosie who appreciates you putting up with all my questions.

I to did think these where things to happen in succession, but what I believe comes from you and the many other believers. All who have have had the learning of the Holy Spirit, but the complete understanding by the very same is elusive because the Spirit is shunned by vainity.

I am blind and deaf in the Spirit, lacking the gifts many of you have. So you are the eyes and ears of what I have learned as the Holy Spirt talks and shows to believers having eyes and ears. Then the Lord touches my heart "this one has this piece," "that one has another" "The truth was revealed to him, and to her."

And as a blind man I grope the pieces the Lord had revealed to you each, my hands guided to fit them together, and then speak of them.

But you that have eyes and hears say, how have a blind and deaf man make sense of any of this? How can this be true?

It is clear to me by the way the pieces fit, but I don't have the eyes and ears to see and hear the the way things should look or how they should sound, such that they may confound me.

Never have I taken a position to claim I speak the truth but have spoken from faith that I believe it is this or it is that.

Indeed, how can I believe in such a thing? That is the mystery of God and how he does things. I don't know anything.

HumbleBob you are a sweetheart.
You are humble and I love you for it.

Keep the faith.

I don't know much about anything and little about something.
But I know 100% that Jesus is alive and well and I love him so much.
And he died for you and me, rose again and is King of Kings and Lord
of Lords. He is on my mind and in my heart the whole day through.

His ways are His. I may never know things for I am not meant to know them.
That is fine. I just love to study and sometimes things are revealed when
I ask God to show me. Sometimes the answer is no rosie you don't know and you
won't be able to understand right now. I shall listen to my Father.

I pray I won't be obstinante when I think I am on a mission to find truth.

love,
rosie

TIME LINE [ Bible Road Map]

Beginning [Creation of heavens and earth]
[?]
Rebellion of Satan and 1/3 of The Angles
[?]
Desolation of The Earth
[?]
Renovation of The Earth
[6 Days]
Adam
[1,000 Years]
Flood - Noah
I - Land of Magog
II - Akkadian/Assyrian
[1,000 Years]
Abraham -Israel
Land of Israel
[1,000 Years]
David -Israel
II - Assyrian [Continued]
III - Babylonian - Gold [Head] - Lion - I
IV - Persian - Silver [Chest - Arms] - Bear - II
Start 70 Weeks [490 Years]
V - Grecian - Bronze [Belly - Thighs] [N-S] - Leopard - III
[1,000 Years]
Jesus.... +
End 69th Week [483 Years lapsed]
Interlude - Church
[2,000 Years + ? Years] [Israel out of the Land]



Israel - Remanent returns to the Land [1948]

.....We are Here 2006 [current war in process]

Jesus [Harpazo] [Church taken out to inhabit the universe - eternal state]

Day of the Lord Begins [Hour of Trial]
70th Week [7 Years + 30 Days + 45 Days]
Dominion of The Beast
VI - [Small - Unnamed] - Iron [Legs] [N-S] - IV
Divided Dominion of The Beast
VII - [Lion-Bear-Leopard] - Iron [Leg] [N] + Clay [Feet] - IV
42 Month Rule of the Beast [1,260 Days]

Jesus - Stone [Millennial Kingdom]
[1,000 Years]
Eternity


Day of the Lord
70TH WEEK [Detail] [Hour of Trial]
[1st Day]
144,000 Israelites Sealed
Satan Thrown to Earth [Given Key to Abyss]
Little Horn Appears and Removes, Replaces 3 Horns [Middle East]
Confirmation of 7 year Covenant By Little Horn
4 Trumpets [Judgments]
Mystery Babylon's great city destroyed
5th trumpet (1st Woe)
Release of Abaddon and Abyss Angels
[ Next 150 Days]
6th Trumpet (2nd Woe)
Release of 4 Euphrates Angels + Host
[ Next 1,110 Days]
Middle East Conquered By Little Horn + 10 Horns
Israel Invaded and Conquered
Abomination of Desolation Set Up
[Next 1,260 Days]
42 Month [1,260 Days] Rule of The Beast
144,000 Preach Gospel to the World
Two Witnesses [1,260 Days]
Protection of Israelite Remnant in Wilderness [1,260 Days]
[Next 30 Days]
7th Trumpet (7 Vials) (3rd Woe)
Destruction of Beast's Dominion
Destruction of the Continent of the Great City
Destruction of the Rest of the World's Cities

Armageddon [30 days]

Beast and False Prophet Destroyed [lake of fire]
Satan sent to The Abyss
Resurrection of Tribulation Martyrs

Jesus Appears to the World
[Next 45 Days]
Gathering of The Elect [Israelites]
Separation of The Nations [Gentiles]

Millennial Kingdom [Israel/Jerusalem]
[1,000 Years]

Satan Released From Abyss to Deceive Nations Again
Satan Destroyed [lake of fire]
New Heavens and Earth
Eternity


Jesus [Harpazo]
"I am the resurrection and the life.
He who believes in Me though he were dead,
yet shall he live.
He that believes in Me and lives
will never die." [John 11:25-26]

Y'all have a little time left to argue about who is going to do what.

Expatriate Pakistanis August 2, 06




America will attack Iran, Syria in October: Gul


RAWALPINDI, Aug 1 (Online): The former chief of ISI, Maj. Gen ® Hameed Gul has "predicted" that America would definitely attack Iran and Syria simultaneously in October.

He was talking after attending the Hamdard Majlis Shoora, Tuesday evening. He also condemned the lackluster and weak reaction of Pakistan and Islamic bloc about Israel’s attack of Lebanon.

Analyzing the current war scenario he observed that war has both political and strategic factors and despite "using" Israel, America has lost the war in Lebanon, where masses have united against the recent Israeli onslaught, and would have been more formidable if the generals of Saddam had not sold out to American dollars.

He analyzed that Israel would soon be "forced" to stop its land strikes but would continue its horrific and heinous air strikes against Lebanon, converting it to ruins.

He also "predicted" that after Iran and Syria, Saudi Arabia would also meet the same fate, followed by Pakistan.

so much confusion !
there are a number of things that have been stated that i would wish to address.

1. Matthew 27. when the earthquake occurs. and the temple veil is rent in two... and the graves open and BODIES became visible.

firstly, you know when the earthquake occurred? it was NOT at the moment of Christ's resurrection....but at this DEATH. he did nor RISE until the THIRD DAY....
so how could any of the dead that are sleeping PRECEED Christ into heaven? and he ascended into heaven after his resurrection, and his disciples beheld him go.... is it not written?

so that EARTHQUAKE. ....it actually was so powerful that graves and tombs broke open. and did you know that similar things happen even today? from earthquakes? but it did not mean the coming to life of those dead..... JESUS was the FIRST to be raised and ascend into heaven to sit at the right hand of God. AWAITING the time for his rightful rule to CRUSH ALL KINGDOMS with an iron rod.

this CRUSHING has not yet happened.....but it surely will happen.

and it itself, GOD'S KINGDOM....will stand even to times indefinite.

CHrist will rule for 1000 years....and then, at the end of that time, when he has brought to nothing even DEATH, then the devil is let loose, and is finally destroyed.....and then Christ HANDS BACK OVER THE KINGDOM OT HIS FATHER. for Christ is given rulership for 1000 years over the earth. this will be the millenium of peace. it is not here yet.

yet Christ already RULES in the hearts of the believers. in that manner he rules those who already willingly submit.
but the WORLD has not yet submitted. it will be have to be MADE to.

the IRON will CRUSH all the kingdoms of men. ALL of them. this has not yet occurred. they still rule by means of the RULER OF THIS WORLD.
and the devil HAS NOT yet been bound for the 1000 years, for he STILL is misleading the entire inhabited earth.....

but his time left remaining? it is SHORT. and his anger is apparent. LOOK at this world! He is, along with his demons, very active still, and especially so now, to this very day.


also. to prove from scripture that the first resurrection has NOT happened in the first century, (other than Jesus' life) we only need to refer to Thessalonians where Paul writes of those "sleeping in death"....(some misuse this to speak of "rapture", though the word occurrs NOT)
he writes that the living will in NO WAY PRECEED those sleeping in death....but at the LAST TRUMPET they shall rise.

now....has the LAST trumpet sounded? no.

for the LAST is yet to come.

the righteous yet sleep in the grave. they will be resurrected at the LAST TRUMPET.

there is somuchmore....i do not mean to be disrespectful of any one's thoughts. but scripture must be our foundation for understanding, as i am sure all here agree.

we are all lacking in some understanding of ALL things, are we not?
and yet some things are clearly indicated in scripture.

that the resurrection will occur at the last trumpet is VERY plainly expressed in scripture.

*****please read 2 Timothy 2:18. *******

what were some in the first century erroneously teaching, even then?


love to you.
we have much to learn. let us be willing.
bz

Jesus is the source of all knowledge in scripture.

In Mattew 24 He gives us a clear and chronological view of what is to come:

First he tells of the destruction of the temple in 24:1+2:

1 Then Jesus went out and departed from the temple, and His disciples came up to show Him the buildings of the temple. 2 And Jesus said to them, “Do you not see all these things? Assuredly, I say to you, not one stone shall be left here upon another, that shall not be thrown down.”

Next in verse 3-14 He tells of the signs of the times and of the age to come, these events have occurred and continue to occurr as he points out in 14 when he says that "this Gospel of the kingdom will be preached in all the world as a witness to all nations, and then the end will come" :


3 Now as He sat on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to Him privately, saying, “Tell us, when will these things be? And what will be the sign of Your coming, and of the end of the age?”
4 And Jesus answered and said to them: “Take heed that no one deceives you. 5 For many will come in My name, saying, ‘I am the Christ,’ and will deceive many. 6 And you will hear of wars and rumors of wars. See that you are not troubled; for all[a]these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet. 7 For nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. And there will be famines, pestilences, and earthquakes in various places. 8 All these are the beginning of sorrows.
9 “Then they will deliver you up to tribulation and kill you, and you will be hated by all nations for My name’s sake. 10 And then many will be offended, will betray one another, and will hate one another. 11 Then many false prophets will rise up and deceive many. 12 And because lawlessness will abound, the love of many will grow cold. 13 But he who endures to the end shall be saved. 14 And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in all the world as a witness to all the nations, and then the end will come.

[B]Next Jesus speaks of the Great Tribulation and the abomination of desolation:
Verses 15-2815 “Therefore when you see the ‘abomination of desolation,’[c] spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place” (whoever reads, let him understand), 16 “then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. 17 Let him who is on the housetop not go down to take anything out of his house. 18 And let him who is in the field not go back to get his clothes. 19 But woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days! 20 And pray that your flight may not be in winter or on the Sabbath. 21 For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been since the beginning of the world until this time, no, nor ever shall be. 22 And unless those days were shortened, no flesh would be saved; but for the elect’s sake those days will be shortened.
23 “Then if anyone says to you, ‘Look, here is the Christ!’ or ‘There!’ do not believe it. 24 For false christs and false prophets will rise and show great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect. 25 See, I have told you beforehand.
26 “Therefore if they say to you, ‘Look, He is in the desert!’ do not go out; or ‘Look, He is in the inner rooms!’ do not believe it. 27 For as the lightning comes from the east and flashes to the west, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be. 28 For wherever the carcass is, there the eagles will be gathered together.

Many believe that this is strictly reguarding the time of 70AD and the destruction of the temple, but verses 21 and 22 are contrary to that belief in that they describe a tribulation that has not been sice the beginning of the world and one that will never be again.
(Rev 8,9,10+11 Tribulation begins and the two witnesses called up to God. At the end of Rev 11, the 7th trumpet is sounded and the Kingdom of God is proclaimed. Rev 12 is an overview of the history of the Jewish nation and the coming of the Messiah. Rev 13,14,15+16 tribulation continues.
Rev 17+18 the unvieling of the Harlot and the Beast and the end of the voice of the Bride and Bridegroom in the earth. Rev 19 the destruction of the beast.
Rev 20 the devil is bound for 1000 yearsand his last attempt at rebellion. Finally the judgement and all things new!)
Which returns us to Matthew 29-31 which describes the Coming day of
the Son of Man after tribulation.

Matt 32-35 is the parable of the fig tree and what to look for as the signs of these things ready to occur

Matt 36-44 tells us how all of these things will happen in a way that will overtake, unfortunately many as in the days of Noah when he entered the ark.
but it also reveals that this will be the time when one will be taken and the other left behind. This is the parable of the 10 virgins that waited for the bridegroom and 5 had oil in their lamps and 5 had none.

Verses 45-51 fulfills the prophetic parables as it tells of those that say in their heart
"My Master is delaying his coming" and those that are minding the Master's goods.

The Master is coming in an hour that we are not aware of and yes their will be weeping and gnashing of teeth, but yes also tears will be dried and the Lamb shall be the light of many.

In Christ,
Chris

1 Cor. 15:52 speaks of the LAST TRUMPET. this is when the dead in Christ rise. they are sleeping in death, until then. But God will raise these up. They will hear his voice, and come out.

(there is not another-- after the LAST-- or then, can it be in truth called the "Last"? )


chris wrote: Many believe that this is strictly reguarding the time of 70AD and the destruction of the temple, but verses 21 and 22 are contrary to that belief in that they describe a tribulation that has not been sice the beginning of the world and one that will never be again.


you are right Chris. the worst tribulation is yet to come. and it shall not be repeated.... it approaches even now.

Comments on Trumpets and Timing

There are three different types of trumpets voices involved with the end of this age and they are used for different purposes: 1.The trumpet/voice of the archangel for the Church, 2.the trumpet/voice of the archangel for judgment(s), and 3.the trumpet/voice of the archangel for the gathering of national Israel (the elect). All three types are found in Scripture.

1. There are two in this set for the Church (beginning and ending)
2. There seven in this set for judgment during the hour of trial
3. There is one for the gathering of national Israelites who survive the hour of trial as mortals.

I have just finished reading this chain of posts and one thing is evident.
There is much confusion.
I have a suggestion.
Perhaps the reason for the confusion results from the attempt to force everything into
the Dispensationalist model of a pre trib rapture and the literalist approach to the OT
prophecies.
For a healthy discussion on this topic see the following link to a topic that Stephen has
started called False Teachers.
http://www.christian-forum.net/index.php?showtopic=7217&st=0
I have added an extensive study on the relation of OT and NT prophecy at post #18
That I think will help here.

Another problem that is often overlooked in the study of Revelation is that the book itself
quotes or alludes to the OT over 600 times. That means that you need to understand the
OT first before understanding Revelation.

Some of the questions are:
Whee does the Bible mention that the millennium is 1000 years of peace?
Have the 1000 years been fulfilled already in the past?
And when does Jesus rule with an iron rod?

First, Someone posted, that Revelation 20 says nothing about 1000 years of peace.
That is absolutely correct. It just is not there. The only way people get that peace
part is to look at certain OT prophecies and apply them to the millennium. They may
fit or they may not, Since the 1000 years is only mentioned this one time in Scripture
we have to be extremely careful in how we interpret it.

Next, what does ruling with an Iron Rod mean?
Compare to Psalm 2, a Messianic Psalm:
2. The kings of the earth take their stand
and the rulers gather together
against the LORD
and against his Anointed One. (Jesus)
4 The One enthroned in heaven laughs;
5 Then he rebukes them in his anger
and terrifies them in his wrath, saying,
6 "I have installed my King (Christ)
on Zion, my holy hill."
9 You will rule them with an iron scepter;
you will dash them to pieces like pottery."


This is in perfect parallel with Daniel 2 where Jesus is symbolized by a stone that
crushes the image that represents the nations of the earth to dust and establishes
God's kingdom.

When you compare scripture with scripture and let the Bible interpret itself
things fall into place and you can easily see that Jesus has not yet ruled with the iron rod.

I am going to make a new post and suggest a possible solution to understanding the millennium. It will be called "The Rapture and the Millennium" You cannot separate the two.
The first part will be on the rapture. It will be lengthy and I expect will generate a lot of
criticism because it takes on some "sacred cows." My only request is that you be fair
and test it out with Scripture.

The second post will be the Millennium. I can assure you that it will be simple and easy
to understand if you can get past the first one. Give it a try.
See you there!
3am

The Rapture and the Millennium: Part I

This will be lengthy, but worth it.
I hope I am not violating any rules by making it so long.

“So Christ was sacrificed once to take away the sins of many people; and He will appear a second time, not to bear sin, but to bring salvation to those who are waiting for Him? Hebrews 9:28.* The good news is that Jesus is coming again. He is coming to receive those who are waiting for Him. I know that there are many people in the world today who are waiting for Jesus to return. What a day that will be. But Jesus said that “Many will come in My name claiming, ‘I am Christ,’ and will deceive many.” Matthew 24:5, the sad fact is that according to Jesus Himself, many are going to be deceived about His second coming.
Now notice that He is speaking of people who are waiting for Him. They are not deceived over the question as to whether or not He is coming. The deception is that they are following the wrong Christ. You see the deception involves the manner of His coming. It involves the way that Jesus is going to return for His people.
The Bible is very clear concerning the second coming of Jesus Christ, but in spite of that, we find the Christian world today is quite confused. There are many kinds of varying and differing thoughts on this subject, but as long as we allow the Bible to interpret itself, comparing Scripture with Scripture, we need not be numbered among those who will be deceived. Over 50 million people have read the “Left Behind” books which teach that the Rapture occurs before the Great Tribulation and Antichrist appears after the rapture. The newer equally popular series “The Last Disciple,” from the same publisher, is based on the approach that the prophecies of Revelation are in the past and the Roman Emporer Nero was the beast. Let’s begin our study tonight by lining up several texts that speak about the rapture, or the second coming of Jesus, and see just what the Bible has to say.
Beginning in Revelation 1:7, we read, “Look, He is coming with the clouds, and every eye will see Him, even those who pierced Him; and all the nations of the earth will mourn because of Him.” That one is clear, isn’t it? It says that everyone will see Him, both the righteous and the wicked. Now let’s read another one in Matthew 24: 27, “For as lightning comes from the east and flashes to the west, so will be the coming of the Son of Man.” Then in the 30th verse, “At that time the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and all the nations of the earth will mourn; they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of the sky, with power and great glory.””
In Acts 1:9, which describes the ascension of Christ into heaven, we read, “After He said this, He was taken up before their very eyes, and a cloud hid Him from their sight. They were looking intently up into the sky as He was going, when suddenly two men dressed in white stood beside them. ‘Men of Galilee,’ they said, ‘why do you stand here looking into the sky? This same Jesus, Who has been taken from you into heaven, will come back in the same way you have seen Him go into heaven.” How clear the Bible is! Can you say Amen to that?
The Bible says that when Jesus returns, everyone will see Him. It will be visible, not secret! Like lightning that flashes from the east to the west, we will see Him. Just as the disciples saw Him ascend into the clouds, we will see Him. Just as the disciples saw Him ascend into the clouds, we will see Him come again. The Bible is so easy to understand if we just let it speak for itself, if we just compare Scripture with Scripture. If we will just hear what it says and put away all preconceived ideas, it says that Jesus is coming with great power on clouds of glory and everyone will see Him.
All agree that the clearest picture of the events that take place at the rapture is found in I Thessalonians 4:15-17. “According to the Lord’s own word, we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep. For the Lord Himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the lord forever.”
Follow carefully what takes place. First of all Jesus returns with a shout, a loud command. The dead in Christ are resurrected. Next, our text says that we who are live and are left will be caught up together with them to meet Him in the clouds and to reign with Him. First Christ comes, then the dead in Christ are raised up, and together with those who are alive and ready, they will be caught up in the clouds with Him.
Where do the righteous go after the rapture? The Bible is very clear about that, too. This is one of my favorite verses. John 14:1 days, “Do not let your hearts be troubled. Trust in God; trust also in me. In my Father’s house are many rooms; if it were not so, I would have told you. I am going there to prepare a place for you. And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come back and take you to be with me that you also may be where I am.”
There is no other say to understand a verse as simple as this one except that it says that Jesus went to heaven to prepare a place for us and He is going to come back again to take us to heaven with Him, right: Let’s summarize what we have discovered will happen at the rapture. Jesus appears in the clouds; everyone will see Him. Then there will be a resurrection of those who have died in Christ and together with the righteous living are caught up in the clouds to return to heaven with Jesus.
In spite of this clear description in the Bible, Jesus said that many will be deceived, and what a tragedy! Today there is much confusion in the Christian world concerning this very question.
The Secret Rapture
The popular understanding of the return of Christ today is the Secret Rapture of the church. The Christian world isn’t by any stretch of the imagination united in its understanding of this concept of the secret rapture. But I want to give a brief sketch of what is generally being taught. If the “rapture” were to occur now...and it is believed that it can occur at any moment, perhaps even before I finish this next sentence...those who are saved will mysteriously disappear and be caught away to be with Christ. Those who are not ready will remain behind wondering, “Where did they go?” Then immediately following the rapture begins a period of tribulation, which some say is seven years, some say 3 _ years of peace followed by 3 _ years of tribulation; there is much confusion on this point. This approach is called the futurist approach to understanding prophecy. It places the fulfillment of most prophecies in Revelation off into the future after the church is raptured away.
All futurists agree however that the “great tribulation” occurs after the rapture of the church and that during this time the “antichrist” makes his appearance. Also during this time the Jews will be converted and will evangelize the world. Then after the seven years are ended, Jesus will return in glory to receive those who are saved during the great tribulation. Notice carefully that those who are not prepared to meet Christ at the rapture of the church, will have a second chance to be saved afterwards.
There are many problems involved with this approach. First of all, it isn’t found in the Bible. There is not one text in all of Scripture that mentions Jesus mysteriously snatching away the saints, leaving behind for a second chance those who are not ready. It isn’t there! We have just seen that every eye will see Him; even the wicked will see Him come.
The Surprising Origin of the Secret Rapture
Secondly, if this interpretation is not found in the bible, then we should ask, where did it come from? Futurism originated as a Roman Catholic counter-Reformation approach to prophesy which was an attempt to deflect the accusation that Rome was the Antichrist. The Reformation resulted when Martin Luther and other scholars began to identify the Catholic Church as Antichrist. The council of Trent met for 18 years to deal with the outflow of protesters called Protestants. Two different approaches to interpreting propchcy emerged from the Council of Trent. Both were attempts to refute the Protestant reformers claim that the pope was the antichrist. Luis DeAlcazar, a Jesuit scholar, claimed that most of Revelation was fulfilled in the past and that Nero, the Roman Emperor was the Beast. This is the basis for the Best Selling series, “The Last Disciple.” Two other Jesuit scholars, Belarmine and Rivera developed a method for interpreting prophecy that placed the fulfillment of most prophecies in Revelation, including Antichrist, off into the distant future. This would mean that since Antichrist does not appear until some time in the future, then the Church of Rome cannot be the Antichrist since it has been present since the time of the Apostles. Later, another Jesuit scholar, Manual LaCunza couldn’t get around the fact that Paul said the Antichrist would set himself up in God’s temple (the church) and proclaim himself to be God (2 Thessalonians 2:4). Since in the eyes of LaCunza, there was only one church, the Catholic Church, Antichrist would have to arise in the Catholic Church. He diplomatically avoided serious problems by assigning the Antichrist to a future corruption of the Catholic priesthood, not the present one, and published his work, “The Coming of the Messiah in Glory and Majesty,” in 1812 under the pen name of Rabbi Ben Ezra.
In 1826 Edward Irving, a Presbyterian minister in England discovered LaCunza’s work and translated it into English, thinking Rabbi Ben Ezra was a Jew, and not realizing he was translating a Jesuit book. Thus futurism was brought into Protestant theological circles. In 1828, Irving focused intently on the outpouring of the Holy Spirit in the End Time. He is sometimes called the Father of modern Pentecostalism.
John Darby first taught the Secret Rapture in early 1831. Darby began holding home Bible fellowships and eventually developed into the Plymouth Brethren. A woman named Margaret McDonald attended one of the prayer meetings in Scotland. The meetings were strictly for prayer and they did not allow the exposition of Scripture. John P. Cardale, The Morning Watch, 1830. During one of these meetings, Margaret McDonald received a revelation and first proclaimed the pre-Tribulation Rapture. John Darby quickly embraced it and it became a foundation teaching among the Brethren. It is extremely significant to note that that Secret Rapture came from a Spirit Manifestation, apart from the study of the Scripture. We have already mentioned the dangers of trusting miraculous and Spirit manifestations apart from Scripture.
The concept of futurism and the Secret Rapture were published in America in the Schofield Reference Bible, taught by John Wolvord at the Dallas Baptist Theological Seminar and popularized by his star student, Hal Lindsey, author of the best seller, The Late Great Planet Earth.” The cycle has gone full circle and practically all evangelical protestant scholars have adopted the theory, which originated with the Jesuit scholars of Trent, and was developed with out any Scriptural support whatsoever. But we have seen that the Bible clearly points to the Medieval Church in Rome as the Beast power of Revelation 13.
The third problem with the secret rapture and futurism is that when we understand that the true Israel of God is the Church in New Testament times, we find the church in the middle of the great tribulation after she was supposedly raptured away. Revelation 12:12 clearly shows the Dragon at war with the remnant of the seed of the woman, which we have already identified as the church. So Revelation portrays the church going through the Great Tribulation.
The Great Tribulation
Many are disturbed to discover that we, the church, will remain in this world throughout the Great Tribulation. Some say that their hope and comfort is built on the fact that we don’t have to go through it. We need hope, we need encouragement and comfort; we need assurance that we can endure to the end, I agree; but our assurance must not be built on a false hope, right? Our assurance must be built upon the Word of God; it must be built on truth.
Jesus said, “In the world you will have tribulation.” john 16:33. Even the disciples endured much tribulation and persecution. All through the ages of the church, Christians were persecuted and they will be persecuted until the end, but the Great Tribulation is going to be poured out on the wicked.”
We will be in the world during that time but we need not fear as long as we trust in God. Let’s read Psalms 91:1-8. “He who dwells in the shelter of the Most High will rest in the shadow of the Almighty. I will say of the Lord, He is my refuge and my fortress, my God, in whom I trust. Surely He will save you from the fowler’s snare and from the deadly pestilence. He will cover you with His feathers, and under His wings you will find refuge’ His faithfulness will be your shield and rampart. You will not fear the terror of night, nor the arrow that flies by day, not pestilence that stalks in the darkness, nor the plague that destroys at midday. A thousand may fall at your side, ten thousand at your right hand, but it will not come near you. You will only observe with your eyes and see the punishment of the wicked.”
We will see the plagues fall upon the wicked but we need not fear. They won’t come near us. You see, God doesn’t have to take us out of the world to protect us from the plagues. That’s why is so essential to learn to trust Him.
The Wicked at the Rapture
But what about that text that says that one will be taken and the other left? Doesn’t the Bible say that? Yes it does. Let’s turn to Matthew 24:40. “Two men will be in the field’ one will be taken and the other left. Two women will be grinding with a hand mill; one will be taken and the other left.” Many point to this text to show that there will be a secret rapture of the church, but let’s understand what Jesus is really talking about by reading it in context.
In verse 36, Jesus says, “No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father. As it was in the days of Noah, so it will be at the coming of the Son of Man.” Notice that the days of Noah provide an example for us as to how it will be when Jesus comes again. What happened in those days?
We read in verse 38, “For in the days before the flood, people were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, up to the day Noah entered the ark; and they knew nothing about what would happen until the flood came and took them all away. That is how it will be at the coming of the Son of Man. Two men will be in the field, one will be taken and the other left.”
Remember that the days of Noah serve as an example for the return of Jesus. In the days of Noah the flood waters came and took them all away. Who is it that was taken away” It was the wicked. When Jesus comes, one will be taken and the other will be left. If Noah’s time is an example of the return of Jesus, and at that time the wicked were taken away, then who will be taken away when Jesus returns” It must be the wicked.
Do you see it? The statement that one is taken, does not refer to the physically snatching away of the church at all. The church will be taken away as we have already seen, but this passage isn’t speaking of that; it refers to the fate of the wicked when Jesus comes: they are taken away to their destruction. When Jesus returns again the wicked will be destroyed just the same as the wicked were destroyed in the flood. You ask, “Are you sure? Is that really what God is saying? Let’s turn now to another passage that refers to the very same illustration, this time in Luke 17.
Jesus says Luke 17:26, “Just as it was in the days of Noah, so also will it be in the days of the Son of Man. People were eating, drinking, marrying and being given in marriage up to the day Noah entered the ark.” Then He goes on to say in verse 34, “I tell you, on that night two people will be in one bed, one will be taken and the other left; two women will be grinding grain together, one will be taken and the other left. ‘Where Lord?’ they asked.” Now pay careful attention to what is happening.
Jesus has just said that one would be taken and one would be left, and the disciples asked, “where?” Now if I were to tell you that we have two ladies sitting on the front row tonight, and one would be taken and one would be left, and you asked “where?,” who are you asking about? Are you asking, where is the one taken, or where is the one that is left? It is obvious that they are asking about the one that is taken. Where is she taken to? Jesus answers in verse 37: ‘He replied, where there is a dead body, there the vultures will gather.’” They are taken to their death. When we study the text in its immediate context, it becomes very clear that Jesus is saying that when He comes again, the wicked will be destroyed.
Let’s turn to II Thessalonians 1:6-10. “God is just: He will pay back trouble to those who trouble you and give relief to you who are troubled, and to us as well. This will happen when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven in blazing fire with His powerful angels. He will punish those who do not know God and do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus. They will be punished with everlasting destruction and shut out from the presence of the Lord and from the majesty of His power on the day He comes to be glorified in His holy people and to be marveled at among all those who have believed.”
You see, the wicked will be destroyed, that’s what happens. We can also read in the second chapter and verse 8 that the Antichrist will be destroyed by Jesus by His very appearance when He comes. The brightness of the glory of Jesus Christ will destroy the wicked when He appears.
The Bible is so plain and easy to understand. It says that Jesus comes with a shout, a loud command. Then the dead in Christ are resurrected, those who are alive and righteous will be caught up together with them to meet Jesus in the clouds of glory to be taken to heaven with Him. The wicked are destroyed. That doesn’t sound like a quiet, secret event when the saints mysteriously disappear, does it?
One question we might ask at this point is, “What happens on earth after the rapture? If the righteous are taken to heaven and the wicked are destroyed, then who is left on the earth? We will answer that question in a moment, but let’s first consider one more point.
No Second Chance
It is very dangerous to believe that anyone will have a second chance after the rapture of the church. Jesus Himself says in Revelation 22:11, “Behold I am coming soon! My reward is with me, and I will give to everyone according to what he has done. Let him who does wrong continue to do wrong; let him who is vile continue to be vile; let him who does right continue to do right; and let him who is holy continue to be holy.” You, before Jesus comes again, He will have issued the eternal decree that the wicked will remain wicked and the righteous will remain righteous. There will be no changing over after that point; human probation is ended, and this takes place before Jesus returns. Someone...Satan ...would like for you to believe that you will have a second chance after the rapture, but the Bible just doesn’t teach it. This goes in line with another statement that Jesus made in Matthew 24 concerning false Christs that will appear in the last days.
“At that time, if anyone says to you, ‘Look, here is the Christ!” or ‘There he is!’ do not believe it. For false Christs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and miracles to deceive even the elect...if that were possible.” Matthew 24:23. Then in verse 26, He says, “So if anyone tells you, ‘There he is, out in the desert,’ do not go out; or, ‘Here he is, in the inner rooms,’ do not believe it.”
Jesus says that when He comes again, He will not be found anyplace here on this earth. If there is ever an announcement of the whereabouts of any Christ, it will not be Jesus. It will be a false Christ. If the Jews say that He has arrived in Jerusalem or that He has set up a kingdom there, you may know it is not Jesus. If somebody says that He’s on the streets of New York, or that He has appeared in a temple in Salt Lake City, or Independence, MO., you can say that it cannot be true! Why? For Jesus told us so. For if anybody says that He is here or there or that He has come somewhere on the earth...don’t believe it. If we really think about this, it means that there can be no earthly reign of peace during the millennium.

Plese forgive the length of this post.
But I think someone needed to present a comprehensive
alternative to the Dispenstional Pre-Trib Rapture.
Please see the next post for answers to the Millennium. I don't think it will be as long as this.
3am

The Millennium
If Jesus said that He is not coming back to this earth, then He cannot set up His millennial kingdom on this earth as many teach today, saying that there will be 1000 years of peace and prosperity on this earth beginning when Jesus comes. The only way that we can really understand the return of Christ is to understand it as it relates to the millennium.
Let’s go to the only passage in the entire Bible that mentions the millennium, Revelation 20. As a word of caution, since 1000-year period is mentioned only in this one chapter, we must be very careful in any attempt to relate other passages to it. We must be absolutely sure that the writer is not speaking about some other time period. Actually the word millennium isn’t mentioned in the Bible. It simply means a thousand years, and Bible scholars always applied it to this prophecy of the thousand years in Revelation 20. Now we are ready to put all of the pieces together and see how beautifully the Bible describes the sequence of events that are shortly to take place. Let’s begin in Revelation 19:11, to see the wider context of the millennium. “I saw heaven standing open and there before me was a white horse, whose rider is called Faithful and True. With justice He judges and makes war...the armies of heaven were following him, riding on white horses and dressed in fine linen, white and clean. Out of his mouth comes a sharp sword with which to strike down the nations. He will rule them with an iron scepter...On his robe and on his thigh he has this name written: ‘KING OF KINGS AND LORD OF LORDS.’”
There can be no doubt that this is talking about the return of Christ, from the point of view of the Judgment, coming to make war. Who is He making war against? Going on to verse 19, “Then I saw the beast and the kings of the earth and their armies gathered together to make war against the rider of the horse and His army. But the beast was captured and with him the false prophet who had performed the miraculous signs on his behalf...The two of them were thrown alive into the fiery lake of burning sulfur.”
When Jesus comes, the dragon, the beast, and the false prophet will have assembled practically the entire world for war against God. They accomplish this by means of a false religion which deceives the world into worshipping the devil instead of God. But now Christ has destroyed the beast and the false prophet, who represents the false religions. and only the dragon.... or Satan is left. Notice also that “the rest of them: were killed with the sword that comes out of His mouth. As we have already discovered, all of the wicked are destroyed when Jesus comes. And since we have already seen that the righteous are taken to heaven at that time, the only ones who remain are Satan and the evil angels.
The Bottomless Pit
What happens to Satan at this time? Let’s read on now in chapter 20:1, “And I saw an angel coming down from heaven holding in his hand the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain and he seized the dragon, that ancient serpent, who is the Devil and Satan and bound him for a thousand years and threw him into the pit and shut it and sealed it over him that he should deceive the nations no more till the thousand years were ended. After that he must be loosed a little while.” Now it talks about Satan being confined to the bottomless pit. No doubt you have wondered about that phrase “bottomless pit.” It is the Greek word “abusos” from which we get the English word “abyss.” It means a dark, empty, wilderness, chaotic condition. It doesn’t mean “a hole in the ground, a pit without a bottom to it.” If you took that literally, you’d have a hole going clear through the earth, wouldn’t you?
If you made a hole in the ground that didn’t have a bottom it would go all the way through, wouldn’t it? You could see the Chinese looking in the other side! No, there is no bottomless hole in the ground. The Bible speaks here of an abyss. It’s a dark, empty, wilderness condition. It’s the same word that is used in the Bible in Genesis the first chapter in the Greek version of the Scriptures where it says “the earth was without form and void and darkness was upon the face of the deep.” The same word was used to describe this world before it was created...before God made order out of chaos.
Satan is going to be confined in a dark, empty, wilderness place. But you say, “Does the Bible talk about any time when this world would be like that...when there would be nobody living on it? Are you sure you haven’t come to a wrong conclusion? Let’s turn and see what it says in Jeremiah 4:23 and onward.
The prophet was looking at this world after the coming of Jesus: “I looked on the earth and it was waste and void, and to the heavens and they had no light. I looked to the mountains and they were quaking and all the hills moved to and fro. I looked and there was no man and the birds of the air had fled. I looked, and the fruitful land was a desert and all its cities were laid in ruins before the Lord, before his fierce anger.” Exactly what we’ve discovered from the other prophecies we’ve just read.
For a thousand years this earth is a desolation, the cities broken down, no life, a dark wilderness, a chaotic, empty world where Satan is confined. Do you see now why the Bible says he tempts no one until the thousand years are finished? Remember...that’s what it said...”he should tempt no one until the thousand years are finished!” There’s nobody here to tempt. He has it all to himself. For a thousand years he can look at the ruin and the tragedy that he has caused.
Reading on in verse 4, “I saw thrones on which were seated those who had been given authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony for Jesus and because of the word of God. They had not worshipped the beast or his image and had not received his mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ a thousand years. (The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended.) This is the first resurrection. Blessed and holy are those who have part in the first resurrection. The second death has no power over them, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with him for a thousand years.”
Here we see two resurrections described and they are separated by 1000 years. The first resurrection is the resurrection of the righteous which we see occurs at the beginning of the 1000 years. We have already seen that the resurrection of the righteous also takes place when Jesus comes again. This means that the millennium must begin with the rapture. The rest of the dead did not come to life until the end of the 1000 years. This is the second resurrection. Can you picture it in your mind? We have two resurrections separated by 1000 years.
At the beginning of the millennium five things take place: 1) Jesus returns 2) The resurrection of the righteous dead 3) The rapture, the righteous who are alive will be caught up together with them (I Thessalonians 4:16, 4:16,17) and will reign with Christ in heaven for 1000 years 4) The wicked who are alive will be destroyed 5) Satan is bound in the abyss for 1000 years 6) At the end of the 1000 years...resurrection of the wicked
At this point we might ask the question, “What will we, the righteous, be going in heaven during this time that Satan is bound on earth?
Why the Millennium ?
Why the millennium? What are the saints doing in heaven during that time? We find the answer in Revelation 20”4. “I saw thrones on which were seated those who had been given authority to judge.” When Jesus comes and we all meet in heaven, there are going to be some surprises. There are going to be some people there that we never would have thought would be there. There are also going to be some disappointments. Some are going to be missing whom we thought would surely be there. We are going to have some questions in our minds. “Why?” Why are some missing?”
It will be just like Abraham when God revealed to him that he was going to destroy Sodom and Gomorrah. Abraham said, “God, will you destroy the righteous with the wicked?...Far be it from you to do such a thing, to kill the righteous with the wicked...far be it from you! Will not the judge of all the earth do right?” Notice the urgency in Abraham’s plea. He is pleading with God not to destroy the righteous along with the wicked, but it is deeper even than that.
When he asks, “Will not the judge of the earth do right?” Abraham is pleading with God that He won’t do anything that would prove He was not a just God. Before God could destroy Sodom and Gomorrah He had to first prove that He was just in doing so. The same thing will happen heaven, we will judge the wicked. Before God can destroy them He must first prove that He is just. We may have many questions to ask. “But God, why? How can you destroy this one or that one?” God says, “Look.” He opens the books and shows the records of the lives of all who are to be lost and proves without a shadow of a doubt that He is indeed just in destroying the wicked. All questions will be met and all doubt must be removed forever. But this still isn’t enough. There’s more. God leaves no stone unturned.
The Great White Throne
The Bible says that, “The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended” (verse 5). Let’s read about it in verse 7, “When the thousand years are over, Satan will be released from his prison.” Remember, the wicked are now resurrected, the earth is populated again and in verses 8-10, Satan “will go out to deceive the nations in the four corners of the earth...Gog and Magog...to gather them for battle. In number they are like the sand on the seashore. They marched across the breadth of the earth and surrounded the damp of God’s people, the city He loves. But fire came down from heaven and devoured them. And the devil, who deceived them, was thrown into the lake of burning sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet had been thrown. They will be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
All the wicked who have ever lived on this earth will be raised up from the dead. Satan gathers them together. And he leads them across the earth to surround the camp of God’s people. The Bible tells us in Revelation 21 and Zachariah 14 that the Holy City, the New Jerusalem, descends from God out of heaven. Jesus touches His feet on the Mount of Olives and it spreads out into a great plain and the Holy City descends upon it. The saints of all the ages are inside. The capitol city of the universe has been moved to this earth. For a thousand years we shall dwell with God, but at the end of the thousand years, the Holy City comes down, and God swells with man (Revelation 21:3) on this earth throughout the ceaseless ages of eternity. The wicked are resurrected and they see the Holy City and the saints inside. They realize what they have missed. Satan deceives them once again. Now that they are resurrected he is loosed for a little while. He has someone to deceive. He deceives them into thinking that HE has given them life, and that they through his power can conquer that Holy City and possess it for themselves!
The wicked will be deceived once more. The Bible says that they are like the sands of the sea as a multitude. All the wicked that have ever lived, in all the ages of this earth’s history. There they are alive like the sands of the sea and they are going to try to take God’s city, but the Bible says that fire comes down from heaven and destroys them all.
This world of sin will be burned up. But the prophecy doesn’t end there with a burning holocaust of flames. Sin and sinners will end. But that’s not the end. Something wonderful follows. The next chapter in Revelation describes the new heaven and the new earth. God is going to make this old world over and it will be perfect and good, just like it was in the beginning. How we long to be a part of that new world; can you say Amen to that?
One question that we should answer which comes to mind at this point is, why does God destroy the wicked when Jesus comes, leave them dead for a thousand years, then resurrect them only to destroy them again, this time in hell? Why does God do that? Why doesn’t He just let them remain dead?
The answer is found in the 11th verse of Revelation 20, “Then I saw a great white throne and him who was seated on it. Earth and sky fled from his presence, and there was no place for them. And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Another book was opened, which is the book of life. The dead were judged according to what they had done as recorded in the books.” You see, the reason that God resurrects the wicked is the same as for the purpose of the millennium; it is God’s final step in vindicating His character, it removes the very last shred of doubt that may be lingering in the minds of those involved.
The Bible says that before the wicked are destroyed, “every knee will bow and every tongue will confess that Jesus Christ is Lord.” The wicked will have to stand in the great white throne judgment, and have to answer to their lives. All that they have done will be brought before them and they will finally confess that God us just and fair in the judgment that He is about to pour out upon them. Even Satan himself will admit that he deserves to die. It is only then that sin will be completely revealed.
This is the reason that God could not destroy Lucifer in the very beginning, you remember, when he rebelled in heaven. God could have destroyed him right then, but He didn’t because He knew that all of the other beings would then worship and obey Him out of fear and not genuine love. Love would have been destroyed. This is the reason for the entire plan of salvation, including the death of Christ on the cross. It is to vindicate the character of God, to prove that God is fair and that He is just. Finally after the final judgment, all of the wicked admit they have sinned and then, and only then, can God destroy them so that all of the on-looking universe will know that it is an act of love, “God’s strange act.”
In closing I want to review this one last scene. Jesus is coming soon to take us home with Him. When He does come, those who are asleep in Christ will be resurrected from their graves and we will meet Him in the clouds. Then the Bible says that we will all be taken to heaven to reign with Christ for a thousand years. After the thousand years are ended, the New Jerusalem will descend from heaven to this earth, and the wicked dead will be resurrected. All of the wicked who have ever lived will be resurrected to see the camp of God’s people an d see all of the righteous ones inside. Picture it in your minds: on the inside of the city will be all of God’s people, on the outside will be the wicked.
Now get this, every single person who has ever lived will be present on that day. Everyone from Adam and Eve up until the very last day, who has ever walked on the face of the earth, will be present. You here tonight, you will be there, each one of us. We have no choice about that.
The only choice that we do have is where we will be. We can be on the inside of the city with God, with Jesus and with our loved ones who are saved, or we can be on the outside looking in.
What a dreadful day that will be for those who have rejected their Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. What a fearful thought to think of those outside the city looking in upon the saints of all ages, gathered around the throne of God’ wives, husbands, children, and Jesus Christ Himself, and to realize that they will be separated from them forever.
3am

HumbleBob,

See if this makes sense...




There are scriptures which indicate that the curse of this Earth will be lifted during the 1000-year physical presence reign of Christ upon this Earth.

Why? Perhaps it is so the above argument will deflate completely in the sight of God and man when Satan is STILL able to deceive and tempt many to want their own way even after the 1000 years of peace, long life, health, and abundant food, and again rebel against a Holy God.

You see, it's not the environment. It's man's wickedness to the core without Christ, pure and simple. This will prove it once and for all time.

Just a thought.

In Christ,

Mike

HumbleBob,




Well, we are of all men most miserable, then, having missed the first resurrection. It is very clear in scripture that those who are in the second resurrection literally have hell to pay.

Thankful to be partaking of the first resurrection in Christ,

Mike

HumbleBob,

What you have said is not scriptural based on 1 Peter 5:

8 Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour:
9 Whom resist stedfast in the faith, knowing that the same afflictions are accomplished in your brethren that are in the world.

If the devil "walketh about", he certainly isn't bound as Peter describes here some years after Jesus' resurrection.

Even in the churches of Revelation, Satan is not bound, but still dwells on the Earth:

Revelation 2:13
I know thy works, and where thou dwellest, even where Satan's seat is: and thou holdest fast my name, and hast not denied my faith, even in those days wherein Antipas was my faithful martyr, who was slain among you, where Satan dwelleth.

I cannot hold to all of the scriptures and still admit that Satan has already been bound for the thousand years. The square peg just won't go into the round hole.

This is by no means an exhaustive N.T. list of Satan's activities, but are definitely the most straight-forward.

In Christ,

Mike

Mike,


You are right.
I cannot for the life of me see how any one can read the Scriptures and believe Satan
is or has been bound. just look around!!!

He is bound when Jesus comes. Rev 19
Jesus hasent come yet!
I know that some teach he already came. But not many take them seriously.
2 Thes 2 even says that when Jesus comes to give relief to the church, he will destroy the
wicked. Satan cannot be bound until that happens. Then he will be loosed for a season, after
the 1000 years are over and the wicked are resurrected in the second resurrection.

3am

bonomike,

I would like to see these Scriptures.
Please be certain they are talking about the 1000 year period when Satan is bound, and
that they are not talking about some other time, such as the new heaven and earth
AFTER the 1000 years are over.

Thanks
3am

Thanks BZ for making the correction. Not at the moment of Christ's resurrection, but at the moment of crucifixion were the graves opened; that is what was meant.

...the first resurrection is for the believer. There is no "second resurrection" only the judgement at the great white throne, if that was what was being inferred.

...satan is certainly loose today but he had been bound before.

Perhaps a question worthy of its own topic. If satan were locked up does one suppose life would suddenly be well, that nations would suddenly enter peace and prosperity for a thousand years? Nay, man knows the difference between good and evil, and by his vainity is his penchant for evil. There would still be injustice in the world brought about by man alone, thus it is no good to say "satan has not been bound because there is evil today." It would be as true yesterday, or today or tomorrow whenever satan was, is or will be bound, that the vainity of man remains to loose evil on earth. Until, the final day of the Lord's return

I will easily admit that I have always been confused about the millenial reign.
but I think you just gave me a big KISS with your post BZ.
You kept it simple sweetheart.
I understood this clearly.
I have really always thought of it this way according to scripture, but some of my past Pastors have really confused. Especially when they said there would be no
1000 year reign.

I am so eager to learn, so thank you for this teaching that is based on the word
of God.

love ya BZ.
how are you doing?

love,
rosie