The first reviews are in and they aren't good for the Da Vinci Code.

Maybe some people will learn that blasphemy and heresy simply don't sell in a world that is looking for hope.

is it out on theater already?

Of course it could just be an awful movie, even taking the controversy out of it.


Here's a review link:

Review

The reviews looks like a mixed bag, to me. I am praying that the movie doesn't fly well. This may be a blemish on Ron Howard's record of good wholesome movies. I am so tired of Hollywood's potrayal of the Bible.

i only registered because i wanted to answer just this topic. me not being very religious as you are was wondering in what way this movie is blasphemous?

i mean, they have as much evidence as anyone else does about jesus and everything. why could´nt you agree with the views he book/movie have? or atleast be open about it? just curious

sanna

evidence?
You will find "Davinci Code" and "the Holy Grail" under fiction in the bookstore. Even the author's came out and said it was false.
it apparently is a good read and some places in the books really exist but the storyline is false.
Didn't you know....

QUOTE

i only registered because i wanted to answer just this topic. me not being very religious as you are was wondering in what way this movie is blasphemous?

You don't have to be "religious" to understand that the book and film do not depict the story of Christ as accepted by most Chrisitians or Christian churches.

QUOTE

i mean, they have as much evidence as anyone else does about jesus and everything. why could´nt you agree with the views he book/movie have? or atleast be open about it? just curious

I view your question as an opportunity.

Here goes....

There is more truth in one single letter of the Hebrew alphabet than in all books other than the Bible combined. The Bible contains the Word of God, other books can only hope to reflect Gods words through the flawed vision of mankind.

BTW, don't be decieved by the perception that all Christians believe that their way is THE WAY. We struggle with our spiritual lives, but spiritual lives they are.

I could be no more open to a blasphemy filled movie as I could be open to witchcraft.

If something is of God, it is. No explanation is needed or possible.

Notice, I don't condemn the books author, the films director, the actors, those who by free will choice decide to see the movie. There is simply enough spiritual danger in everyday life that is something can be easily avoided, it should be.

If this movie causes one person to question their faith in God, it is not good. All souls have value, they aren't to be tampered with for of all things, making a few dollars, which the movie makers intent is.

My last question for you is....is this movie worth sharing with anyone? What value does it give to the children of God, which includes you and everyone you know?

It is a story that has no respect for Christ and therefore deserves no respect from anyone else.

We are so very glad you have join in a discussion. Please don't limit yourself to just this one The truth is that much of the pretense of the movie are based on documents that are very old, but they were fabricated way back then. I have read a complete study on the very old manuscripts used to develop the story, and they were proven to have been total fabrications. People lied and made things up back then too. It is not that the manuscripts them selves didn't exist, it is that they are very old fabrications. I will find the evidence to support this. It is quite indisputable. If some one else has it handy please post it.

God Bless,
Kansas Dad

but the same could be said about the bible in general too, cant it?

i mean, who in all seriousness believe in the bible literally? it talks about dragons,flatearth,adam&eve i mean, its a good storybook and such,but believing in it in a literal sense does not make sense. or does it? i seen lots of bible quoting the bible in this forum,but do they make a distinction between fiction and none-fiction?

sanna

I would like the forum not to all jump in and bombard her with replies but maybe one person can respond.
maybe K.D. since she quoted him?

I will have to find the information for you. I think you misunderstand. The papers themselves are fabricated. The papers were written by people who had no connection to the supposed author, and the papers were written hundreds of years after the supposed author was already dead. The time line does not fit at all. It has been proven that the manuscripts themselves were not what they claimed to be. Not that the manuscripts were not real, but that the claim as to who wrote the papers was proven to be false. In contrast the more we discover of the times of Christ the more we find proof that the authors of the Bible and the Events were accurate. I am not speaking to the content but to the Author.

I will post more later.

K.D.

Read the Bible with commentary in it, it will tell you that in the Bible, prophets often referred to bits of mythology from their time period we as lay people wouldn't know about but back then, was well known (for instance, the myth of lilith) and we only get pieces of that and wonder, what's that about? Also it will explain customs and busienss practices at the time, which again are unfamilar to us. Sometimes, the Bible will use phrases that were a custom for a prophet to say to emphasize a point, and this is hard for the modern reader to understand.

Here is one article<


"It would be hard to exaggerate how wrong he (Brown) is about all of those things, how wildly off the mark he is," said Carl Olson, the co-author of "The Da Vinci Hoax: Exposing the Errors in The Da Vinci Code," who speaks to many Catholic audiences on the book.

Deciphering 'Code'
A few major points of contention in Brown's version of religious history:

• Constantine did not try to unify his empire under a single, strong religion at the Council of Nicea in A.D. 325 by commissioning a new Bible that created the image of Jesus as God. Jesus was considered more than a mortal prophet prior to that time, according to Bart Ehrman, author of "Truth and Fiction in the Da Vinci Code" and chairman of the department of religious studies at the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill.

• The Gnostic Gospels and other non-canonical writings - works that were excluded from the New Testament as Christianity became formalized - do not say that Jesus was just a mortal. Quite the contrary, Ehrman says, they "go much further in portraying him as a superhuman being" than the Gospels in the New Testament, which are full of references to his human traits.

Other problems: There were far fewer than the 80 known Gospels that Brown says were competing for attention in the early church; the Nag Hammadi texts found in Egypt in 1945 do not tell the Grail story at all; the Dead Sea Scrolls were found in 1947, not the 1950s, and they are not among the earliest Christian writings because they are Jewish texts that do not even mention Jesus.

• Mary Magdalene - the first person to whom Jesus appeared after his resurrection, as recorded in the New Testament - did have a significant role. Non-canonical texts from the second and third centuries that attracted no enduring following go further, with the Gospel of Mary (Magdalene) quoting Peter saying to her, "Sister, we know that the Savior loved you more than all the other women," and the Gospel of Philip saying Magdalene "always walked" with Jesus and his mother, Mary, and that Mary Magdalene "was called his companion," and that Jesus kissed her on her . . . (the last word is missing from the surviving manuscript).

But "Da Vinci Code" goes even further, filling in the blank by saying Jesus kissed her on the mouth, and substituting "spouse" for "companion," a translation of the Greek word koinonos that Ehrman and other scholars dispute.

The problem with the Priory
Underlying all of this is the Priory of Sion. If historical evidence of its existence evaporates, so does much of the aura of authenticity that adds allure to the fictional plot.

There were legends in southern France of Mary Magdalene having landed there in a boat. But the Priory of Sion and its links to that have not fared well under spotlights of inquiry, ranging from debunking books in French and English, to stories and exposés by "60 Minutes," The New York Times, the Beliefnet.com spiritual Web site and others.

Journalist Sandra Miesel, co-author of "The Da Vinci Hoax: Exposing the Errors in The Da Vinci Code," writes on Beliefnet.com that a religious community called the Priory of Sion was founded in Jerusalem in 1099. But, she says, contrary to the novel, it had no special relationship with the Knights Templar. When the Priory's church was destroyed in a Muslim attack in 1219, the Priory's priests moved to Sicily, joined the Jesuits in 1617 and disappeared as a community.

In an essay for the 2004 book "Secrets of the Code: The Unauthorized Guide to the Mysteries Behind the Da Vinci Code," Amy D. Bernstein, a specialist in Renaissance French literature, describes contemporary versions of the Priory of Sion and its roots as a "French confection of pseudo-history built on a delicately thin substructure of truth."

"Many people have analyzed the set of facts and legends involved in this story," she writes. "My conclusion from reviewing the most credible among them is that beginning in the 1950s, a small group of men with neo-chivalric, nationalist, and sometimes anti-Semitic leanings was able to perpetrate what is almost certainly a marvelously intricate hoax that still draws people in today."

A story with many detractors
That story, according to Bernstein and others, began in the late 1880s when Bérenger Saunière, the parish priest of St. Mary Magdalene Church in Rennes-le-Château, a remote village in southern France, began living lavishly after word spread that he had discovered some coded parchments hidden in a hollow pillar in his church. ("Da Vinci Code fans" will note that the real-life priest has the same surname as Jacques Saunière, the fictitious Louvre Museum curator whose murder is the opening scene of the novel.)

A French newspaper drew attention to Saunière with an article in 1956. That same year, Pierre Plantard - a convicted con man who later claimed to be a descendant of the Merovingian royal line - formed a recreational club named the Priory of Sion in France. It quickly evolved into a right-wing political organization.

Apparently latching onto the Rennes-le-Château story, Plantard and his associates are believed to have planted fake documents at different times in the 1960s in the Bibliothèque Nationale de France. That included parchments supposedly found by Saunière, the priest, in his village church, and other documents about the Priory of Sion that named da Vinci and other historic figures as former Priory grand masters.

British scriptwriter Henry Lincoln did three television documentaries on the Rennes-le-Château mystery for the British Broadcasting Corp. in the early to late 1970s. Then, proposing the theory that the Priory's role was to protect the descendants of Mary Magdalene and Christ, Lincoln co-authored the international bestseller "Holy Blood, Holy Grail," which Brown drew from and cites in his novel.

Continuing to stand behind his research, Lincoln told "60 Minutes": "I can't say that it's a fact because it isn't. It's an idea. But it fits the facts that we have, very few though they may be."

But "60 Minutes," the BBC and various French and American authors from the 1970s to the present concur about the forgeries, laying out evidence that includes admissions from at least one of the participants that the parchments Brown cites in the opening of "The Da Vinci Code" are bogus.


From the May 15, 2006 editions of the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel

kansasdad,i was not attacking the conservative christian text compared to the da vinci codes version,i was merely wondering in what way you can make a distiction between what is fiction and none-fiction.

someone in the beginning of this thread simply stated right off the entire idéa to be blasphemous,and i took this as a simpel-minded person refusing to accept different views.i can ofcourse wrong about this.

my main point was really,whats to say mr brown is wrong (lets say) compared to the view of the people on this forum (not agreeing)? i mean, if you literally believe in the bible,what are u using as a mallet for truth? if you understand what im trying to say? im not good at formulating myself.


but as said earlier,clearly different viewpoints are not appreaciated at this forum for example,so what makes this view the correct one,and whats the basis for it. and dont worry about offending me or such as c-los medrano may implied,im just curious about the entire thing

sanna

i don't think i was saying that anyone was going to offend you.
we're nice people around here.

it's about "how do you know if the bible is true..."
then you can get all kinds of replies about that but nothing offending.

welcome to the forum.

sanna is a buddhist term meaning perception, classification

Would you happen to be a buddhist. I'm curious to know.

Yes I think I now understand your question better. Your first question was why are we not open to the possibility that Mr. Brown’s work might be true. You stated that there is much evidence to support his work and that we were not even open to considering the possibility of it. My answer was that his evidence has been proven to be fabricated. Why would I be open to believing something when it has been proven to be based on a fabrication? In contrast the Bible has not been proven to be a fabrication. To the Contrary, time after time after time, as we learn more and more about history, the Bible is being proven authentic. Many of the events, places, and people are being discovered through ancient ruins, hieroglyphics, and ancient scripts. The more we learn of history the more we learn of the very events described in the Bible. It may take me a little time but I would be happy to look up some very specific events, places, or people talked about in the Bible that have been proven to be factual through non-Biblical resources.

God Bless,
Kansas Dad

Kansasdad says:

"I have read a complete study on the very old manuscripts used to develop the story, and they were proven to have been total fabrications".

And they're laughing about it. They think it's totally unbelievebly funny that they've dupped the people...Ya laughing all the way to the bank.

But it's not them doing the dupping anyway. It's weakness of mens minds that have rejected the true and living word ...Jesus Christ.

The deception is the reward. A darkened mind and hardened heart.

But l believe eventually God will use this on Deans behalf. But lets pray for Dean that he will be able to stand in the time of trial and struggle this surely will produce..

In Jesus name Father we ask for your protection and wisdom from on high to see our friend Dean through the days and months ahead. Cause him to hear and prosper in Jesus name and protect his family and strengthen his wife Cathy.

Keep them Lord. Bless them. Lead them and whisper in their ears.."Go this way go that way". Bring everything here accomplished into full light and truth. Let the nay sayers be disarmed and their hearts examined.

We pray and ask it in Jesus name and for his names sake...Amen!

what?really?

no no,its my NAME.im finnish but i dont know what country of origin my name has.it sounds finnish in finland

well i guess we could talk about what kind of evidence is on the "you" side,but thats another topic, just pointing out I would be inerested in hearing it.personally some things of the movie/book part is just silly.take the thing of mary madalene is in the "last supper",which is really silly thing.the reason for some of the apostles looking feminine is because of leanardos homosexuality.but to manage to stretch it so one of them look like a female is overdoing it.

Sanna ,you write like someone else we all know and love....Wonder if you are the same person. eh?

I believe that the bible is 100% true. Literally.

I always think of one statement in the bible said to Abraham, 'Your descendants will be like the stars of the heavens in number,' and then I go outside and look at the stars and I just wonder, 'Which one am I?'

I am in agreement...
about Shekel, yes, please continue to pray...it is a profound work to have
God of the Universe direct a discovery of pictograms and written confirmations
in the same text...unfolding at moments ahead of actual events...God is
perfect in all His ways...and it is a profound work for one sinner to turn from
darkness back to the light of God. I believe with my heart and confess with
my mouth that Jesus Christ is Lord.

Signet

Here is a link to an interesting article. Its a Bible Code that relates to the Da Vinci Code the book and Dan Brown.

http://www.biblecodedigest.com/page.php/292

jhamner,wow.thats immense?

out of curiosity,the holy bible says it created adam&eve.do you belive we are all descendants from them? if so,how do you explain [to yourself] that two people populated the world?i mean, we are now over 6.5 billion people.wow. how you explain this as your view is very extreme [i would say].

Sanna, baby, no need for lenghty discussion. Just read the Bible!
You can read it online on: http://www.biblegateway.com

If you don't know what to start with, let me (humbly) suggest the book of John in the New Testament.

Ain Soph

Take a few minutes to read this site and you will better understand what the Bible actually says. It won't be what you think it does, though I don't believe your view is very extreme.

Your view is limited by your search for answers. Hopefully, you will have a broader view of God's potential after more research.

BTW, we are all searching for answers. Hope this helps.

i take that as some sort of personal attack.i have read the bible,thats why i relate to it as fiction.could i ask again?just wondering how a person explain to himself that two people would populate the world.pm me if its not open for debate here,because im interested in knowing.

sanna

Pocket, nobody is attacking you. I am glad you missed us
C

I think it would take more faith to believe a book full of lies like the Da Vinci Code.. Then to believe in the bible which many of the events have come to pass line up with the bible over the last century talk about in matthew 24, luke 21 and mark 13..

Lord I pray today that you would open the eyes of many to see that your holy word is true and fact before your son Jesus Christ comes back.. Before it is to late... Lord I pray that all the nations of the world would wake up and see that Christ is Coming soon.. Let them bow the knee to your holy and mighty name... And call on Christ and be Saved... In Jesus name I pray amen..

Yep! is right...Hey Pocket...We knew you couldn't stay away...

Pocket, I knew it was you! I have been praying for you and your preciuos wife. Has she delivered the baby yet? You know that little baby is a gift from a LIVING GOD to both of you. May the LORD open your eyes and ears to the wonder of that little one. May your heart begin to break away the stone and become flesh again. May JESUS become LORD of you and your wife's life. May you walk in HIS knowledge and understanding as you rear that precious little one. Oh yes, there is a LIVING GOD who cares for you, my friend, and HE is directing you back to us, Christians! HE loves you. I am PRAISING GOD! May the LORD shine brightly upon you and bless you always.

see,this is what i meant from the start,you claim "lies" right off.how much have you studies this?what do you really know about it? the truth is that you simply do not like it,this is fine ofcourse, but to pretend its "all lies" because you do not agree is right is not sane.

sanna

Sanna, I know that you are Pocket. You can continue to post as long as you remain civil. May the LORD bless you here.

I haven't read all the posts in this thread but I don't really understand what all the excitement is about. The Da Vinci Code is fiction.

hello?i dont seem to get a response from anyone,i was really interesed in this.and who is pocket?

if anyone want to talk,especially about literally believing in the bible,pleae pm me because i really really want to hear about it.how does it work with adam&eve and all that?really curious.and i neve met anyone believing this,not even in christianforums (where i usually lurk around),i didnt know these kind of people existed, so please talk to me about it,i want to know.

sanna

Sanna, archeology is a relatively young science compared to math, astronomy and medicine. The ancient people were far more advanced than you seem to understand. It is obvious that you have been brain washed by the idea of evolution, or atleast proponents of it. You see yourself superior to early civilizations because they believed in a Most High, a divine phenomena rather than random accident. So you enjoy the idea that Jesus Christ was an ordinary man with some extraordinary ideas. If you were up on archeological finds you would understand our faith. Even if your lack of faith leaves you in the dark.

Do you know anything about Bible prophecy? Do you understand that the return of Israel as a nation was foretold more than 2,000 years ago? And that your generation would be described as arrogant and puffed up with pride? Rushing to and fro? That the Bible would be made known in every nation - as well as the significance of this statement made by men who knew nothing of the Americas (north and south)? Do you realize that men like Peter and Paul do not die for fabricated ideas. This alone is common knowledge of scholars.

I'm sorry Sanna, but you are the fulfillment of prophecy. You are the generation foretold in the Bible. May God forgive you and reveal Himself to you.

sojourner

sojourner,i dont understand(?),why do you say that the ac-nicent people where far more advanced then i seem to understand?i have said NOTHING about any ancient civilization????i dont understand? maybe you confused me with someone else you been talking to??



the quran is known all over the world too.i dont get your point?i still think you confused me with someone else as you say stuff i never mentioned.israel has been around for close to 3000 years,what you mean with return?its been here for 3000 years sojourner.

lots of people die for lots of things.i just wanted to hear about this of adam&eve as it made me curious.i mean,if someone seriously believe adam&eve populated the world (thats two people),how do they explain this?its not possible to start with, so how do they explain it?thats all i wanted to know.



i have no doubt god will forgive me.but for what? i live a good life and never been bad.i just dont have this strange view of god like you do,i live a good life wanting science and medicin to evolve rather then praying for someone to heal.try to heal a broken leg with praying,i would go to a doctor

Well I had to look for this a while, but here it is. If you have the time you can double check it, but I am sure it is accurate.

Assume that the earth had an initial population of 2 people, ready to assume their responsibilities as husband and wife and then as parents. Assume also that the average number of children per family (growing to maturity and marriage) was 2 c, with c boys and c girls. In the first succeeding generation, then, there would have been c families (and 2 c individuals, plus the first 2 still living). The second generation, on the same basis, would contain c times 2 c, or 2 c2, individuals. In the third generation, there would be 2 c3 individuals, and so on. The total number of individuals in the world at the end of n generations, assuming no deaths, could be calculated as:


Sn = 2 + 2 c + 2 c2 + 2 c3 + .. - + 2cn, Eqn. 1.

The sum, Sn, can be calculated directly. Multiply both sides of equation (1) by c:


Sn© = 2 c + 2 c2 + 2 c3 + 2 c4 . . . + 2 cn + 2 c(n+1)

Subtracting the first equation from the above:


Sn© - Sn = 2 c(n+1) - 2,


or Sn(c - 1) = 2 c(n+1) - 2

Dividing through by (c - 1) yields the sum Sn as:


Sn = 2 c(n+1) - 2 / (c-1)

Thus,


Sn = 2 [c(n+l) - 1] / (c -1), Eqn. 2.

However, the number of people represented by Sn would have to be reduced by the number who had died since the first generation in order to get the actual population. Now, let the average life-span be represented by x generations. The people who had already died by the time of the nth generation, therefore, would be those who were in the (n-x)th generation, or earlier. This number is:


S(n-x) = 2 [c(n-x+1) - 1] / (c- 1)

The total population at the nth generation, then, combining equations 2 and 3, becomes:


Pn = So - S(n-x) = 2 [c(n+1) - c(n-x+l)] / (c - 1)

Thus,


Pn = 2 [c(n-x + 1)] [cx - 1) / (c-1), Eqn. 4.

Equation 4, in summary, will give the world population n generations after the first family, for an average life-span of x generation,, and an average number of children growing to maturity and marriage of 2c per family. The equation clearly demonstrates how rapidly populations can grow under favorable conditions.

For example, assume that c = 2 and x = 2, which is equivalent to saying that the average family has 4 children who later have families of their own, and that each set of parents lives to see all their own grandchildren. For these conditions, which are not at all unreasonable Table 8 indicates the population at the end of the indicated number of generations, as calculated by equation 4:


TABLE 8. Extended Population Calculation for 6-member Family
Generations Population
5 96
10 3,070
15 98,300
20 3,150,000
30 3,220,000,000


This last number is almost equal to the present world population, so that only 30 generations under these conditions would suffice to produce a population almost equal to that in the world today. The population at 31 generations would be 6.5 billion.

The next obvious question is: How long is a generation? Again, reasonable assumption is that the average marriage occurs at age 20 and that the 4 children have been born by age 35. Then the grand children will have been born by the time the parents have lived the allotted span of 70 years. A generation thus is about 35 years. Ma consider a generation to be only 30 years.

This would mean that practically the entire present world population could have been produced in approximately 30 x 35, or 1050 years!


http://www.ldolphin.org/morris.html

Stuff that in your pocket you stubborn Fin! Just kidding. I'm Finnish.

kaksikymmentäkaksi

cornelius,perhaps you where not aware,but we havegone from 2 bilion to over 6 billion in less then 100 years.this makes your calculation wortlhless, as well as ignoring plague,famine and such.your calculation is not realistic.

just the fact that in a total of the last 200 years,we would have gone from 1 billion to over 6 billion.and this includes massive famine and death.where do you get your calculations from?no mean of insult here,but you need to look it up again.you need include death ratio for example.your entire calculation seems ot be based on using the current world figures and trying to make it match,i could use 10billion people and make a similar calculation to agree with me.

so i think you havent thought this through cornelius,maybe u used other peoples callculations,but that one does not work,sorry.but its interesting to know how you guys think,unfortunately is just flawed.

important points you have not included(forgotten?);
famine
war
inbreed (especially the first generations)
geophysical differences (different parts of the world)
vast differences in family structures (4 per family all over the world???)

sanna

you prefer the swamp thing?

just wondering how a person explain to himself that two people would populate the world.pm me if its not open for debate here,because im interested in knowing.
Sanna,
We all descended from someone before us.
If we believe that Adam and Eve were the first to produce, hence the entire world descended from these TWO......what is so flawed about that?

Sanna isn't interested in your answer or any answer.

Sanna chooses to ignore that "With God, all things are possible."

Attempts to produce linear answers to spiritual questions doesn't work, in most cases.

Acceptance of linear answers to spiritual questions NEVER works when the person askinig the question doesn't want ANY answer.

The answer to questions involving God and faith must come from within an individual's soul. Look within for the spark we all have that comes from God, then your answers will be provided.

what swamp thing?

sanna

miki,i dont think we are allowed to speak finnish here,but you can pm me

sanna

Sauna....God's stoking the fire.

When we were kids we'd go out to the fields where the sauna was. A small wooden structure with a benches and a fire pit in the center.

The first thing they would do is remove the snakes from the building...usually copper heads...

Then they would build a fire and add rocks to the blaze. When the wood was done burning they would take buckets and pour them intermittently over the rocks. We'd then climb up on the high benches and the cleansing process began...hot yes..but so good for you...Even healing some say.