I know that many will not believe me at all, but I have always felt like Revelation has been changed. I have heard satans voice for quite a while always talking about hating me and that i will fail... there was a time when God did speak to me when I met certain people whom I call the army of the Lord who show up from time to time in my life. Because of their presence I can hear the Lord, as they know whats going on in my mind. Its a lot more stranger world than you think. But enuf on that, point is that God and I spoke on many things during that last time when I saw them... my own life and abuse the reasons for it... that this is the church of laodicea and that those in this day and age who think they are on fire for the Lord trying to obey by following a bunch of rules that have little to do with Christ and alot to with with just taking some verses from St Pauls books... on no dirty talking etc, are actually the ones whom Jesus Christ called 'neither hot nor cold ill spit you out'' I spoke on my future and the rapture and the bible...
and also on revelation. I really do not have any arguments but I know the Holy Spirit will testify but He did say that revelation has indeed been changed ALOT. In fact, it was changed quite fast, and those who did it will go to hell, as promised in the end of the book. JEsus is a rock of offence, and Revelation was a book that is known about that early christians doubted should we take this in our bible?
I assure you, they were not talking about revelation as it is now. I dont know exactly what has been changed, removed and added, but I know that it was full of offensive words for which I have been banned by christians for being dirty...
I remember God telling that because the offensive language has been removed, which the changers considered blasphemy, but because of the removal, that painful things which were considered blasphemy have come to pass...
YEs, I know God is very well capable to protect His word. He has His reasons for not doing so with this final book. He has given man authority and free will as well. And the bigger mans sin the greater Gods mercy. What do you folks think of all this? Please pray before answering I KNOW the Holy Spirit testifies of it!
And God told me audibly.
And after all if this all is not the case then why would Christ write this down which is not written down in any other book of the bible:

18I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: If anyone adds anything to them, God will add to him the plagues described in this book. 19And if anyone takes words away from this book of prophecy, God will take away from him his share in the tree of life and in the holy city, which are described in this book.

Apparantly these verses make clear that man CAN indeed take away words from the book. And I assure you and so does the Holy Spirit, that is exactly what happened. and quite soon after it was written.

I have to go to eat now
What are your thoughts?

I know when the books were being considered for the first Christian Bible, which book was going to be last the last book was very hotly debated, it was an even spilt between the Revelation of John and the Apocalypse of Peter.

It's hard to address such a subject. I do believe that Revelation IS in its original context, though.

Please read:

http://www.cuttingedge.org/News/n1566.cfm

Under "key event number 7" President Clinton (DeMolay Illuminist) declared:
"Perhaps it is time we looked hard at anyone who literally believes the Book of Revelation".

If Revelation in its present form was harmless, then why the fuss about it?
Even if some of it was taken off, we still have what remains. Regardless, we must read it and keep the information contained in this 66th book in mind.

It's just like our technology and its weather changing ability. We can change the weather, cause earthquakes, impose the Mark of the Beast today if we want; regardless whether God removes His protection to allow earthquakes and strange weather patterns, or even volcanoes and tsunami or regardless whether our technology stands behind all this,

THE RESULT IS STILL THE SAME! We do experience increased tornadoes, storms, floods, volcano activity, etc...

And these, are the sings of the end times.

Revelation is a bone of contention isn't it. So many churches don't use it - one of the few (if not the only) NT books that they don't use. Why is that I wonder? Fear? Perhaps.

All the others they quote from willy nilly. Christianity IS the NT. Many forget about the OT completely unless it is using the passages that validate (so to speak - I can't think of another word) the NT.

There are those that believe it was written specifically with 1st century 'audiences' in mind...no more and no less. Then there are the others who firmly believe that Revelation is about spirituality in the sense that if you look at the letters to the churches at the beginning, and see where they were excelling and where they were not, then the rest of Revelation is to do more with spiritual preparedness for heaven, using fear as a motivating factor.

It is rare to find someone who takes Revelation at face value.....for what it says it is and then firmly believes enough to teach that. For all the flowery language - the metaphors etc - strip away that and you have what the book essentially is. A warning of times to come where for a period of time, all will be equal in the material sense. In that time, when the troubles come upon us, we will cease to be varieties, and become more like teabags, where the strength of the tea depends on the length of time we are in the hot water...or how many times we are dunked. It's a bad analogy, but it is through trial and trouble that we become stronger, not through namby pamby cushy lives with no hassles. Once the trouble truly starts. It is those with the strongest of faiths who will 'win the day' - be where all christian's aspire to be.

Each of us who have traumas today - will, in the future welcome those as training for tougher times. We will have the mettle to succeed in the spiritual battles ahead. What Revelation does is warn us of what's coming to give us the chance to prepare spiritually.

And I'll get off me wee soapbox for the mo and go and feed my hungry offspring.

I read the KJV so there is no room for new interpretations. I believe every word and every book of the bible.

Revelation:

rev·e·la·tion
Pronunciation: "re-v&-'lA-sh&n
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English, from Middle French, from Late Latin revelation-, revelatio, from Latin revelare to reveal
1 a : an act of revealing or communicating divine truth b : something that is revealed by God to humans
2 a : an act of revealing to view or making known b : something that is revealed; especially : an enlightening or astonishing disclosure <shocking revelations> c : a pleasant often enlightening surprise <her talent was a revelation>
3 capitalized : an apocalyptic writing addressed to early Christians of Asia Minor and included as a book in the New Testament -- called also Apocalypse;

It was included in The Word by The Word (Jesus Christ) for a reason. Thats why its so important to ask the Holy Spirit for quidance and discernment when reading The Word, things will be revealed if you ask.

May Our Lord continue to bless each and every one who seeks the truth, the way and the light.

YSIC, Sarah xx

gregg. i heard, and feel the same.
nazi germany was but a smaller foreshadow of what is to come. (is here.)
for history does repeat itself.

they are making this immigration issue a "focus" now, as a basis, to implement what they have already determined to do...

they have detainment, ICE camps, already in place.
to hold LARGE numbers.
the contract to build these was awared to a subsidiary of haliburton.
KBR, i think, is the subsidiary.

if you build it, there is a purpose for it.

this has long been planned.

stay firm in love, in resolve to obey God as ruler,
rather than men, to speak about God, the rightfulness of his law and rulership. and to look to Him as Judge.

for He has appointed His King. and His Son is Faithful and True.

do not be caught up in this world, but keep on speaking about the True King, the One who judges in Righteousness, for He is coming!

but there will be an impostor, one that looks like a lamb, with two horns.
this is the impostor. the impostor preceeds the True One.

and the True One will do away with the beast, and the impostor, with the sword of his mouth.

it will 'appear' as hopeless .....as hopelesss as the Israelites backed up ---against the Red sea.



but it will not be Hopeless, in Reality.
the nations, they are what is called an UNREALITY, in the scripture.
in Isaiah, chapter 40. and Psalm 2 is yet to be fullilled completely.
love,
bz

(the book of revelation has not changed, but rather, it is in process of its fulfillment.)


partial text from the president's speech on immigration tonight:

The steps I have outlined will improve our ability to catch people entering our country illegally. At the same time, we must ensure that every illegal immigrant we catch crossing our southern border is returned home. More than 85 percent of the illegal immigrants we catch crossing the southern border are Mexicans, and most are sent back home within 24 hours. But when we catch illegal immigrants from other countries, it is not as easy to send them home. For many years, the government did not have enough space in our detention facilities to hold them while the legal process unfolded. So most were released back into our society and asked to return for a court date. When the date arrived, the vast majority did not show up. This practice, called "catch and release," is unacceptable and we will end it.

We are taking several important steps to meet this goal. We have expanded the number of beds in our detention facilities, and we will continue to add more. We have expedited the legal process to cut the average deportation time. And we are making it clear to foreign governments that they must accept back their citizens who violate our immigration laws. As a result of these actions, we have ended "catch and release" for illegal immigrants from some countries. And I will ask Congress for additional funding and legal authority, so we can end "catch and release" at the southern border once and for all. When people know that they will be caught and sent home if they enter our country illegally, they will be less likely to try to sneak in.



what "detention facilities" is he speaking of? (not county nor city jails...)

the ones built, being built, even now, by KBR, the subsidiary of Haliburton.

the contract was awarded them, not long ago.

(i have the article saved....one that did not make the "evening news".)

they have CAMPS built....READy.

but, then, hilter also first began his "cleansing" with ones that society deemed,
'appropriate"...at the time....it continued....to include many others.
and by that time, there was FEAR, and no one spoke up.
they just went along with it.
or supported it..
or they too went to these "camps".


"If you are not for us, then, you are with the terrorists"--G.W.B. (w.b. w.b. W.B. )

and so, the LABEL is a blanket one, for what they will call "evil".

and you too, if you obey Jesus as Ruler and King, rather then men, will be called 'evil'. for it will be considered a "crime" to help an 'illegal immigrant'
just as it was considered a 'crime'to help a run-away slave in the past, in this very same country...

...just as it was considered a 'crime' to help or to hide a JEW in nazi germany...during the HUNT for them....
in this past century....yet, many risked their very lives and "freedom" to help the oppressed, the Jews, and any other that hilter deemed, 'vermin". those who were hunted and sent to camps because they did not meet the god's standards.
for hitler was germany's 'god'. and the people worshipped him.

--but not all.


beware. the leaven of herod.
bz

So BZ and Gregg, let me get this straight -

The immigration debate that President Bush talked about is really the shadow of the anti-christ? The next step is computer chips and detainment camps and 'cleansing' of the 'appropriate' people deemed by society and - oh yeah! - KBR and Haliburton building camps to hold large numbers of people?

Sounds like you really hate the guy...

But isn't the LORD in control? Let's see:



So the LORD GOD is in control - even if Bush is the President of the US!

You know BZ and Gregg, maybe you two should talk up the LORD JESUS CHRIST and that HE died for our sins and that we are justified in the sight of our FATHER IN HEAVEN when we place our faith in HIS SON, the WORD made flesh, the TRUE LIGHT of men, JESUS CHRIST; talk about how the HOLY SPIRIT is our COMFORTER, sent by the FATHER and the SON, and how the HOLY SPIRIT seals us unto the day of redemption (Eph 1:13 In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were SEALED with the Holy Spirit of promise,) !

Instead of accusing Bush of being the anti-christ, think of the seeds you can plant in the hearts of people telling them that JESUS loves them and wants to save them from their sins and give them eternal life? Think of how you will be obeying the LORD (Mr 16:15 And He said to them, "Go into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature. ) instead of speculating about how how Bush, Cheney and Haliburton are out to kill them.

Just a thought!

Todd

KBR awarded Homeland Security contract worth up to $385M

Print | | Disable live quotes By Katherine Hunt
Last Update: 12:19 PM ET Jan 24, 2006


SAN FRANCISCO (MarketWatch) -- KBR, the engineering and construction subsidiary of Halliburton Co. (HAL : Halliburton Company
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Last: 75.25-1.82-2.36%

9:02am 05/16/2006

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HAL75.25, -1.82, -2.4%) , said Tuesday it has been awarded a contingency contract from the Department of Homeland Security to supports its Immigration and Customs Enforcement facilities in the event of an emergency. The maximum total value of the contract is $385 million and consists of a 1-year base period with four 1-year options. KBR held the previous ICE contract from 2000 through 2005. The contract, which is effective immediately, provides for establishing temporary detention and processing capabilities to expand existing ICE Detention and Removal Operations Program facilities in the event of an emergency influx of immigrants into the U.S., or to support the rapid development of new programs, KBR said. The contract may also provide migrant detention support to other government organizations in the event of an immigration emergency, as well as the development of a plan to react to a national emergency, such as a natural disaster, the company said.



just gr8.....ain't it?


it would be just gr8 --if you were more aware of what is happening.

of what has ALREADY been built....



THESE are the DETENTION FACILITIES he was referring to in his speech last night.


(and you did not know, did you?)

and so now, you do know.

and you cannot claim that you did not.

-bz

As a matter of fact, I read MarketWatch too and it was there in January of 2006. I saw that article.

The link to the article is: http://www.marketwatch.com/News/Story/Stor...77662-858254656

KBR awarded Homeland Security contract worth up to $385M

Print | | Disable live quotes By Katherine Hunt
Last Update: 12:19 PM ET Jan 24, 2006


SAN FRANCISCO (MarketWatch) -- KBR, the engineering and construction subsidiary of Halliburton Co. (HAL : Halliburton Company
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Last: 75.79+0.54+0.72%

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HAL75.79, +0.54, +0.7%) , said Tuesday it has been awarded a contingency contract from the Department of Homeland Security to supports its Immigration and Customs Enforcement facilities in the event of an emergency. The maximum total value of the contract is $385 million and consists of a 1-year base period with four 1-year options. KBR held the previous ICE contract from 2000 through 2005. The contract, which is effective immediately, provides for establishing temporary detention and processing capabilities to expand existing ICE Detention and Removal Operations Program facilities in the event of an emergency influx of immigrants into the U.S., or to support the rapid development of new programs, KBR said. The contract may also provide migrant detention support to other government organizations in the event of an immigration emergency, as well as the development of a plan to react to a national emergency, such as a natural disaster, the company said.

*******************************************************************

I am not worried. So what if they have built detention camps? So what if there are computer chips and UPC codes and IP addresses and GPS and all the other things - so what? Today the government can track you through credit card transactions, bank transactions, ATM transactions, cell phone tower locations, GPS, through your computer's IP address (you can only spoof that and there are ways to overcome IP address spoofing), email and on and on and on if it wants to...

It points to one thing - JESUS is coming!

JESUS said it pretty clearly:



So if we know that the government is doing this and we all stand up and say "NO!" and force the governement to dismantle the camps and remove the listening and monitoring devices, etc will that change the events of the LAST DAYS? Nope. I can't chnge it, and neither can you. The die is cast.

I am not aware of everything that the government is doing and I do not wish to be. Why should I? My destination is HEAVEN, friend, and someday my life on this planet may end. But I will either be resurrected or lifted up into the clouds to meet HIM. One or the other will happen someday soon. Like Peter walking on the sea towards JESUS, I have to keep looking at HIM and ignore the wind and the waves, lest I sink into the sea...

Maybe a better balance, BZ, is add the need for JESUS to your warnings. I, as a believer, am aware of some of these things. But you are right, others may not be. When people come to the forum to look up end times info, it would be great for you to remind them that JESUS is what they need most of all - like I am doing here - and that HIS COMING is the reason these things are happening. These are the things that tell us to prepare for HIM. All the Bush bashing aside, it does not matter who is in the Office of President or which country these things are happening in - it shows us that the LORD JESUS is acomin'! Peace...

Todd

i have said, and will continue to say, that the hope for mankind and the nations, is not to be found in men or in nations of men,
but in Jesus, the TRUE KING OF GOD'S KINGDOM.

AND YES, HIS KINGDOM IS COMING.

but, did i call bush "anti-chirst"? have i accused anyone of being "anti-christ?"

no, but that was out of your mouth, gr8.

but i do want people to be aware of what is happening.

for there is and will continue be a "great deception". until the end.

and i do not desire any to be decieved.

love and peace.
bz

back ontopic to revelation plz.

(yes, sorry joeri.)

my thought is that if we say that revelation has changed, then what basis to we stand upon for the authenticity of the rest of the scriptuers?


there is no doubt that men would alter things to suit their purposes, or agendas...

but if God is the Author, and the One guarding His word, then i think that He would be sure it was preserved to His satisfaction.

God's word. it is translated into numerous languages and in those languages, there are many varied tranlations, in the same language.

i have a bible that is composed of no less than 26 translations. all into one big volume.

and having compared, the various translations being side by side,
i have reached the conclusion that the truth can be understood in any bible.

the BLUE LETTER BIBLE web site allows for this type of comparision also.

but it research that i have done to my own satisfaction.
each one must research a matter, on his own.
and reach his own conclusion.

but as for me, i say the Bible is God's word.
the entire word, from Genesis to Revelation.

and i find the same theme, running from the beginning to the end.

It is the Authority. it is the Word of God.

if we do not determine a Basis for Authority, then, there is no basis for a discussion about God.

The sayings of God are refined ones, and preserved.

Please, see these scriptures: (please...)

*2 Samuel 22:31
*Psalm 12:6, 7
and
*Proverbs 30:5,6.

love,
bz

I think that although the rest of the bible, i think King James is the best, is good, i know that, just like God gave man authority to choose satan in the beginning, he gave the book of revelation also to man. man was offended with the truth, and removed it, considering it blasphemy when god clearly said that all those who change it are blasphemers who wont see heaven, and because of this change an incredible amount of evil has been done.

hello dear joeri.

i am sorry, but i don't think i understand, dear one.
do you find the Revelation given to John, as we have it today,
in our bibles, somehow offensive, or that it has been altered in a way that makes it no longer worthy of consideration?

can you provide examples, or evidence, that would help me to understand the basis of your reasoning, and your thought that the revelation was changed in some manner?

i see the Revelation as tying in beautifully with the rest of scripture.

but i would like to know why you think as you do.

thanks and love,
bz

but i am not understanding what you are saying.

no Revelation we have now is not offensive it was much much more offensive thats what I mean
Unfortunately things like this cannot be proven, except that the Holy Spirit will testify...
My only reasoning is that I had a talk with God, in a bus, I could hear Him only because of the presence of other, unorthodox, christians.
Godbless
joeri