You know it seems these crosses or Ten Commandment plaques or whatever have been up for years and now all of the ACLU types are going bonkers over these. Like they haven't noticed a huge memorial cross sitting there for years etc. Perhaps they were battling against all of these Christian things in a quiter fashion in the past and now that it seems fashionable to bash Christ, let it all hang out in the public arena.
It is now time, and perhaps long overdue, for this Court to enforce its initial permanent injunction forbidding the presence of the Mount Soledad Cross on City property, U.S. District Judge Gordon Thompson Jr. said.
Thompson found the presence of the cross on city property unconstitutional in 1991, two years after its legality was challenged.
Since then, his order and the cross have been subject to litigation, public debates and three votes.
Courts have invalidated three land transfers two sales to a private group and a gift to the federal government designed to keep the cross atop one of the city's most scenic landmarks.
In 2003, the U.S. Supreme Court refused to hear the city's appeal.
Although Mayor Jerry Sanders said he will propose appealing yesterday's ruling, City Attorney Mike Aguirre said an appeal would be a waste of time and resources.
Cross Debate In San Diego
Full Version: San Diego Ordered To Remove Cross...
2 Peter 3:3 Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts, 4 And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation. 5 For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water: 6 Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished: 7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men. 8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. 9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance. 10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. 11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness, 12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat? 13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness. 14 Wherefore, beloved, seeing that ye look for such things, be diligent that ye may be found of him in peace, without spot, and blameless. 15 And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you; 16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction. 17 Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these things before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own stedfastness. 18 But grow in grace, and in the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and for ever. Amen.
QUOTE(onetiggerroo @ May 5 2006, 07:16 PM)
2 Peter 3:3 Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts, 4 And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation. 5 For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water: 6 Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished: 7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men. 8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. 9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance. 10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. 11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness, 12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat? 13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness. 14 Wherefore, beloved, seeing that ye look for such things, be diligent that ye may be found of him in peace, without spot, and blameless. 15 And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you; 16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction. 17 Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these things before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own stedfastness. 18 But grow in grace, and in the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and for ever. Amen.
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The more you see things happening, the more we should know that time is drawing to an end. I imagine we shouldn't be surprised given the recent assault on Christmas.
The more you see things happening, the more we should know that time is drawing to an end. I imagine we shouldn't be surprised given the recent assault on Christmas.
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[/quote]
QUOTE(Jeep @ May 5 2006, 08:51 PM)
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I know it's hard to understand, but if you REALLY put your mind/emoticon to it, you'll get my meaning.
QUOTE(Shaun333 @ May 5 2006, 07:55 PM)
QUOTE(Jeep @ May 5 2006, 08:51 PM)
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I know it's hard to understand, but if you REALLY put your mind/emoticon to it, you'll get my meaning.
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id say like the law of moses those in the new covenant left it behind them having been made perfectly righteous through the LOVE BLOOD of Jesus
we leave the cross behind us and go on forever in his holyness layer by layer forever and ever
Jesus has gone on so a change of name is fitting jesus new name is Hesus
Hes-us
PRAISE THE LORD!
A U.S. Supreme Court judge stays the the order of another judge to have the cross removed
http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/metro/2...bn03cross2.html
This really is spiritual warfare. I am so glad the Lord inspired this judge to intervene. I pray the Lord will touch his heart. There's too much athiesm in the world and I hate to see it gain an upper hand, but rejoice when the Lord knocks it a few steps back!
A U.S. Supreme Court judge stays the the order of another judge to have the cross removed
http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/metro/2...bn03cross2.html
This really is spiritual warfare. I am so glad the Lord inspired this judge to intervene. I pray the Lord will touch his heart. There's too much athiesm in the world and I hate to see it gain an upper hand, but rejoice when the Lord knocks it a few steps back!
QUOTE(Humble Bob @ Jul 3 2006, 09:22 PM)
PRAISE THE LORD!
I am so glad the Lord inspired this judge to intervene. I pray the Lord will touch his heart. There's too much athiesm in the world and I hate to see it gain an upper hand, but rejoice when the Lord knocks it a few steps back!
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I am so glad the Lord inspired this judge to intervene. I pray the Lord will touch his heart. There's too much athiesm in the world and I hate to see it gain an upper hand, but rejoice when the Lord knocks it a few steps back!
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The Gospel does not stand or fall on the fate of a mass of steel reinforced concrete in a certian shape. Since 49% of the nation is blatently godless and the other 51% pay lip service to the Gospel as we continue to engage in the same divorce, sexual imorality, abortion, and other vices of the world and then claim we are "Holy" because we have a mass of concrete in the shape of a Cross on a hill or elect a President who claims to be Christian. The Gospel doesn't stand on any of these things. The best way to spread the Gospel is through our actions and screaming for a mass of concrete is not the action I am speaking of. we need to become salty again. By being truly free from the sins of the world and not having divorce, teen pregnany, drug use, and other vices of the world within our ranks will make a much larger statement than some man made structure on a hill.
QUOTE(BernieEOD @ Jul 4 2006, 10:06 PM)
QUOTE(Humble Bob @ Jul 3 2006, 09:22 PM)
PRAISE THE LORD!
I am so glad the Lord inspired this judge to intervene. I pray the Lord will touch his heart. There's too much athiesm in the world and I hate to see it gain an upper hand, but rejoice when the Lord knocks it a few steps back!
[right][snapback]70470[/snapback][/right]
I am so glad the Lord inspired this judge to intervene. I pray the Lord will touch his heart. There's too much athiesm in the world and I hate to see it gain an upper hand, but rejoice when the Lord knocks it a few steps back!
[right][snapback]70470[/snapback][/right]
The Gospel does not stand or fall on the fate of a mass of steel reinforced concrete in a certian shape. Since 49% of the nation is blatently godless and the other 51% pay lip service to the Gospel as we continue to engage in the same divorce, sexual imorality, abortion, and other vices of the world and then claim we are "Holy" because we have a mass of concrete in the shape of a Cross on a hill or elect a President who claims to be Christian. The Gospel doesn't stand on any of these things. The best way to spread the Gospel is through our actions and screaming for a mass of concrete is not the action I am speaking of. we need to become salty again. By being truly free from the sins of the world and not having divorce, teen pregnany, drug use, and other vices of the world within our ranks will make a much larger statement than some man made structure on a hill.
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I journey through a valley filled with serpents and I am stricken by their venom everyday. My only hope is to gaze upon the cross daily and that the Lord will lead me through and out of this dreaded place.
QUOTE(Humble Bob @ Jul 4 2006, 09:05 PM)
QUOTE(BernieEOD @ Jul 4 2006, 10:06 PM)
QUOTE(Humble Bob @ Jul 3 2006, 09:22 PM)
PRAISE THE LORD!
I am so glad the Lord inspired this judge to intervene. I pray the Lord will touch his heart. There's too much athiesm in the world and I hate to see it gain an upper hand, but rejoice when the Lord knocks it a few steps back!
[right][snapback]70470[/snapback][/right]
I am so glad the Lord inspired this judge to intervene. I pray the Lord will touch his heart. There's too much athiesm in the world and I hate to see it gain an upper hand, but rejoice when the Lord knocks it a few steps back!
[right][snapback]70470[/snapback][/right]
The Gospel does not stand or fall on the fate of a mass of steel reinforced concrete in a certian shape. Since 49% of the nation is blatently godless and the other 51% pay lip service to the Gospel as we continue to engage in the same divorce, sexual imorality, abortion, and other vices of the world and then claim we are "Holy" because we have a mass of concrete in the shape of a Cross on a hill or elect a President who claims to be Christian. The Gospel doesn't stand on any of these things. The best way to spread the Gospel is through our actions and screaming for a mass of concrete is not the action I am speaking of. we need to become salty again. By being truly free from the sins of the world and not having divorce, teen pregnany, drug use, and other vices of the world within our ranks will make a much larger statement than some man made structure on a hill.
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I journey through a valley filled with serpents and I am stricken by their venom everyday. My only hope is to gaze upon the cross daily and that the Lord will lead me through and out of this dreaded place.
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If you rely on a steel and concrete replica, you are placing too much faith in a man made object. The Gospel does not stand on some man made idol on a hill.
Bernie, you raise an interesting point. Of course one should not place their faith in something made of concrete and steel, but do you think the cross is an idol? I guess it would be if one worshipped just the cross, and then I would agree that there is no Gospel in that. It's hard to imagine that people could revere the cross without seeing Christ behind it, without seeing God's love through his only begotten son.
Treating the cross as some sacred relic based on its material composition reduces the cross to an inanimate object. I guess that is the point athiests are trying to make with the cross on Mt Soledad, to suggest the cross is just an object devoid of any evidence that God exists. They see it as an affront to their sensibilities and demand that it be taken down under the pretext that it is unconstitutional.
But, the symbolic expression of the cross is very powerful. It's not in the material that it is made out of like concrete and steel. The meaning of the cross as if it were made out of wood is no less valued than the cross made out of gold.
The believer if I may speculate, sees it more than just an object but an inspiration to draw upon, and even pray to the Lord; not so much to the cross but to ponder the Lord, searching his truth.
But anyway, when if ever is the cross not fashioned by the hands from a man? Does this then make every cross an idol? And wasn't the very cross that Christ had been crucified upon placed on a hill? The Son of God being afixed upon something manmade and placed on a hill, does this make Calvary then an idol? What does the Gospel stand upon?
Treating the cross as some sacred relic based on its material composition reduces the cross to an inanimate object. I guess that is the point athiests are trying to make with the cross on Mt Soledad, to suggest the cross is just an object devoid of any evidence that God exists. They see it as an affront to their sensibilities and demand that it be taken down under the pretext that it is unconstitutional.
But, the symbolic expression of the cross is very powerful. It's not in the material that it is made out of like concrete and steel. The meaning of the cross as if it were made out of wood is no less valued than the cross made out of gold.
The believer if I may speculate, sees it more than just an object but an inspiration to draw upon, and even pray to the Lord; not so much to the cross but to ponder the Lord, searching his truth.
But anyway, when if ever is the cross not fashioned by the hands from a man? Does this then make every cross an idol? And wasn't the very cross that Christ had been crucified upon placed on a hill? The Son of God being afixed upon something manmade and placed on a hill, does this make Calvary then an idol? What does the Gospel stand upon?
If given the vote, would I vote to leave the Cross? Of course!
Is it really a fight worth the time, money and effort we are expending? Not really.
Too many people appear to believe the job is done if the Cross stays on the hill only to return to their dope, drugs, adulterous relationships, and other vices.
I'll trade a concrete cross on a hill for a massive act of repentance any day.
Is it really a fight worth the time, money and effort we are expending? Not really.
Too many people appear to believe the job is done if the Cross stays on the hill only to return to their dope, drugs, adulterous relationships, and other vices.
I'll trade a concrete cross on a hill for a massive act of repentance any day.
Whether it is the symbol of one's faith or not....we are still beggin the question at hand: the right to place the symbol when not all are of like mind in the cemetary (or soon to be patrons of the cemetary).
As a lawyer from California, I am appauled at the lack of intellect to take the question to task. I ask you....who is being harmed?
First argument. If he is an atheist, when he is gone he is no longer anything and why even fight about it? Moot point, entirely, my friends.
Second argument. Who says the atheist are NOT represented? "Over here, you have the cross for the Christians. Over there on that hill.....nothing!.....for the atheists." See? Two hills (I have been there, there are many hills so the atheists can call any one of them their own) and everybody is represented.
leia
As a lawyer from California, I am appauled at the lack of intellect to take the question to task. I ask you....who is being harmed?
First argument. If he is an atheist, when he is gone he is no longer anything and why even fight about it? Moot point, entirely, my friends.
Second argument. Who says the atheist are NOT represented? "Over here, you have the cross for the Christians. Over there on that hill.....nothing!.....for the atheists." See? Two hills (I have been there, there are many hills so the atheists can call any one of them their own) and everybody is represented.
leia
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