VATICAN CITY, MAY 4, 2006 (VIS) - The Pontifical Council for Inter-religious Dialogue, presided by Cardinal Paul Poupard, who is also the head of the Pontifical Council for Culture has sent to the Buddhists of all the world, the traditional message for the occasion of Vesakh.

In countries where the Theravada Buddhist tradition exists (Sri Lanka, Thailand, Cambodia, Laos and Myanmar) Vesakh is a moveable feast which marks important events in the life of Gautama Buddha. In the Mahayana Buddhist tradition (China, Japan and Korea) these events are commemorated on different days.

This year, the message was entitled " Buddhists and Christians Serving Humanity" and reflects over the nature of love, addressed in Pope Benedict XVI's first encyclical, "Deus Caritas Est".

"The Pope is convinced that this word, so frequently used and yet so often misunderstood, needs to have its true meaning restored in order to become a beacon of light for everyday life".

"Through our dialogue we have come to appreciate the importance that you Buddhists give to love for one's fellow human beings which is expressed in the concept of metta, a love without any desire to possess but only to help others. It is understood as a love which is willing to sacrifice self-interest for the benefit of humanity. So metta, according to Buddhist teaching, is not confined to benevolent thought, but extends to the performance of charitable deeds, to the service of one and all. It is indeed a universal benevolence. Nor should one forget that other virtue, karuna, through which is shown loving compassion for all living beings".

"In this world where the word love is so often used and misused would it not be useful for Buddhists and Christians to rediscover its original meaning according to their respective traditions and to share their understanding with one another? This would be an encouragement for the followers of both traditions to work together to build up relations based on love and truth, to promote mutual respect, to foster dialogue and to further collaboration in the service of those who are in need".

http://www.ewtn.com/vnews/getstory.asp?number=67289

Also see:

Vatican Excommunicates 4 Chinese Bishops

Does not the Bible say that God is Love, and If we lead people to understand what Love really is, are we not leading them to God. Many claim to know love, but it comes with satans twist. Do we not need to reach out to all the lost and show them what Gods love is truly about.

God Bless,
Kansas Dad

...humanity is the sea from which the beast arises from

If we do not reach out with love, they will not take our hand. If we do not knock at their door with respect, they will not answer.

sojourner

but the question is how? how can we reach others true love? should we knock the so called truth or just love them and let them slowly change?

but what is the meaning of a beast? is it the animalistic characteristics of man? or a strange and terrifying christian?

Vatican II:

Lumen Gentium

16. "There are finally those who have not yet received the Gospel. They too are ordained in various ways to the people of God. The plan of salvation includes those also who acknowledge the creator, foremost among these are the Muslims. They profess fidelity to the faith of Abraham and with us adore the one and merciful God who will judge mankind on the last day. Nor is God far from those who in shadows and images seek the unknown God. Nor does Divine Providence deny the help necessary for salvation to those who, without fault on their part, have not yet reached an explicit knowledge of God and yet endeavor to live a good life.

Nostra Aetate

2. ...The religions which are found in the more advanced civilizations endeavor by way of well-defined concepts and exact language to answer these questions. Thus in Hinduism men explore the Divine mystery and express it in both limitless riches of myth and accurately defined insights of philosophy. They seek release from the trials of the present life by ascetical practices, profound meditation, and recourse to God in competence and love. Buddhism, in its various forms, testifies to the essential inadequacy of this changing world. It proposes a way of life by which men can, with confidence and trust, attain a state of perfect liberation. The Catholic Church rejects nothing which is true and holy in these religions. She has a high regard for the manner of life and conduct, the precepts and doctrines, which, although differing in many ways from her own teaching, nevertheless often reflect a ray of that truth which enlightens all men. Yet it proclaims and is in duty bound to proclaim without fail, Christ who is the way, the truth and the life (Jn.14:6). In him, in whom God reconciled all things to himself (see 2 Cor 5:18-19), people find the fullness of their religious life.

The Church therefore urges her sons to enter with prudence and charity into discussion and collaboration with members of other religions....

3. The Church also has a high regard for Muslims. They worship God who is one, merciful and subsistent, merciful and almighty, the creator of Heaven and Earth who has always spoken to men. Over the centuries many quarrels and dissentions have arisen between Christians and Muslims. The sacred Council now pleads with all to forget the past and urges that a sincere effort be made with all to forget the past!
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Has the Catholic Church changed? What of this 'new evangelization? Catholics are reading their Bibles and talking about salvation by Grace alone. Yet Vatican II also re-affirms the Trent and Florence, which condemn all non-Catholics to Hell.

I plead with all, don't be fooled by Rome's clever re-packaging - which is targeting the United States in particular. (What a help ECT has been!) The Vatican is talking out of both sides of its mouth, and if it succeeds in its interfaith and ecumenical activities it will say something like, "Greater knowledge demands greater responsibility! Enter into the fulness of communion with Rome, because Trent and Florence still stand. Enter into the fullness of Rome or, Anathema! Sit."

Very much so. Man is much like a beast. His behavior can be selfish and violent, even in a civil setting. I've never seen so much bitterness in politics.

Daniel 3 gives you a better idea of what the beast is and how it applies. In that chapter the beast is an idol made by, King Nebuchadnezzar and all the captains, servants, govenors, princes, etc are the people told to worship it. In the modern times of our life today Nebuchadnezzar would represent a government, perhaps world government and the idol an ideal that serves humanity, our ownself.

The captains, servants, govenors, princes, etc would be humanity in general and like Nebuchadnezzar did the world would subject humanity to these ideals. But a beast is what it is and you can't change its nature. It's wild and vicious, so despite our ideal rhetoric and calls for peace and kum-by-ya religion we have war out of violence, famine out of selfishness, environmental destruction out of greed, etc. We are a "civil" world but we act like a beast.

He that is unjust, let him be unjust still; and he that is filthy, let him be filthy still; and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still; and he that is holy, let him be holy still. (Rev 22:11)
How do we let these people be?
Didn't God say at one time, 'Let my people go?'

No supporting facts? Every time I post anything on Catholicism you quickly and flatly say that I am wrong without ever engaging in the actual argument. Please follow your own advice - I welcome a healthy debate!

The Council of Trent says dozens of times, addressing the Reformers, "Anathema! Sit." What is personal opinion about this?

The Fourth Lateran Council, 1215: "Out side of the Holy Roman Church there is no salvation."

"We declare, say, define, and pronounce that it is absolutely necessary for the salvation of every human creature to be subject to the Roman Pontiff." - Boniface VIII, 1302

"The most Holy Roman Church firmly believes, professes and preaches that none of those existing outside the Catholic Church, not only pagans, but also Jews and heretics and schismatics, can have a share in life eternal; but that they will go into the eternal fire which was prepared for the devil and his angels, unless before death they are joined with Her; and that so important is the unity of this ecclesiastical body that only those remaining within this unity can profit by the sacraments of the Church unto salvation, and they alone can receive an eternal recompense for their fasts, their almsgivings, their other works of Christian piety and the duties of a Christian soldier. No one, let his almsgiving be as great as it may, no one, even if he pour out his blood for the Name of Christ, can be saved, unless he remain within the bosom and the unity of the Catholic Church." Eugene IV, 1441

Have I erred?

I'm doing my best to read for myself KD. But as I heard someone say yesterday, researching the Catholic Church is like trying to fit the Ocean into a thimble. However, as a Seminary student I have much more time to devote my studies than most. I'm very thankful for this because I've really enjoyed myself, though that is not to say it's been smooth sailing the whole time. Anyway, this is what I've been doing for the last year and a half.

I've put together a resource page on my website where Catholics can 'read for themselves' the Protestant position. I just started it a week or so ago, so it's still a work in progress. Here's an opportunity for you to see where I am coming from...even if you don't initially agree with me:

http://www.daysofnoah.org/catholicism

your not finding truth the truth you are proving yourself and yes i am a catholic

Yes The error is in not completing the research.

I know I have read extended commentary on those very issues written by the Church Fathers that explains what they were saying at the Conucil of Trent and what they mean by, Out side of the Holy Roman Church there is no salvation." I am totally overwhelmed at work right now so it may take a little while, but I will look it up and post it for you.

God Bless,
K.D.

ps. Thank you for your willingness to ask the question.

Yes we are to bring them Love. True love is bringing the Gospel to the lost. It is telling them that Jesus died for them and the without Him they are lost.

How do they hear you?The Holy Spirit speaks to the hearts of those that are ready.

It has nothing to do with "reaching out hands of friendship"

You have to believe that God has been preparing the hearts of people to receive the Gospel.
Look, we once were lost without God, ...the Gentiles, our ancestors worshiped strange gods, but the Light of the Gospel came to them and they accepted it. Their is no difference between the Buddhist and those early Gentiles. They all need the Gospel, and in the way that God planned it.
How will they know if nobody TELLS them. The harvest is huge but the workers are few.

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Yes The error is in not completing the research.

I know I have read extended commentary on those very issues written by the Church Fathers that explains what they were saying at the Conucil of Trent and what they mean by, Out side of the Holy Roman Church there is no salvation." I am totally overwhelmed at work right now so it may take a little while, but I will look it up and post it for you.

God Bless,
K.D.

ps. Thank you for your willingness to ask the question.
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Ah well I made the time.

Salvation outside the Church


The Catechism of the Catholic Church, following historic Christian theology since the time of the early Church Fathers, refers to the Catholic Church as "the universal sacrament of salvation" (CCC 774–776), and states: "The Church in this world is the sacrament of salvation, the sign and the instrument of the communion of God and men" (CCC 780).

Many people misunderstand the nature of this teaching.

Indifferentists, going to one extreme, claim that it makes no difference what church one belongs to. Certain radical traditionalists, going to the other extreme, claim that unless one is a full-fledged, baptized member of the Catholic Church, one will be damned.

The following quotations from the Church Fathers give the straight story. They show that the early Church held the same position on this as the contemporary Church does—that is, while it is normatively necessary to be a Catholic to be saved (see CCC 846; Vatican II, Lumen Gentium 14), there are exceptions, and it is possible in some circumstances for people to be saved who have not been fully initiated into the Catholic Church (CCC 847).

Notice that the same Fathers who declare the normative necessity of being Catholic also declare the possibility of salvation for some who are not Catholics.

These can be saved by what later came to be known as "baptism of blood" or " baptism of desire" (for more on this subject, see the Fathers Know Best tract, The Necessity of Baptism).

The Fathers likewise affirm the possibility of salvation for those who lived before Christ and who were not part of Israel, the Old Testament People of God.

However, for those who knowingly and deliberately (that is, not out of innocent ignorance) commit the sins of heresy (rejecting divinely revealed doctrine) or schism (separating from the Catholic Church and/or joining a schismatic church), no salvation would be possible until they repented and returned to live in Catholic unity.



This is part of an article from Catholic Answers. But let me also say that for those that knowingly tear apart the body of Christ the outlook is not good.
"Peter himself, showing and vindicating the unity, has commanded and warned us that we cannot be saved except by the one only baptism of the one Church. He says, ‘In the ark of Noah a few, that is, eight souls, were saved by water. Similarly, baptism will in like manner save you" [1 Peter 3:20-21]. In how short and spiritual a summary has he set forth the sacrament of unity! In that baptism of the world in which its ancient wickedness was washed away, he who was not in the ark of Noah could not be saved by water. Likewise, neither can he be saved by baptism who has not been baptized in the Church which is established in the unity of the Lord according to the sacrament of the one ark" (ibid., 73[71]:11).

"The apostle Paul said, ‘As for a man that is a heretic, after admonishing him once or twice, have nothing more to do with him’ [Titus 3:10]. But those who maintain their own opinion, however false and perverted, without obstinate ill will, especially those who have not originated the error of bold presumption, but have received it from parents who had been led astray and had lapsed . . . those who seek the truth with careful industry and are ready to be corrected when they have found it, are not to be rated among heretics" (Letters 43:1 [A.D. 412]).


The blue sections are parts I wanted to emphasize, and the red section are my comments.

This is really taking this thread in a totally different direction, perhaps a different thread would be best for this conversation.

God Bless,
K.D.

This is a great post except I am not sure I agree with the blue part. I think Jesus often reach out in friendship, He didn't water down the message, but he did it as a friend to the lost. Any thoughts?

K.D.

Thank you for your forthright and honest reply. I was expecting theological gymnastics, philosophical shenanigans, and word games, but instead you gave it to me straight. I respect that. For instance:



I count myself a member of this group. I am knowingly and deliberately rejecting the Romish brand of Christianity and I am calling Roman Catholics out from the bondage of the papacy. If I am incorrect and Roman Catholicism is correct then Hell is eagerly awaiting my arrival.



I assume that the 'body of Christ' here referred to is the Roman Catholic Church. I further assume that you would consider 'railing against Rome' to be an act of 'tearing at the body'. So I must also count myself among the intended audience of this dreadful warning.

I have a Roman Catholic friend who has also appealed to such intimidation tactics, "To fight against Christ's Church (The Roman Catholic Church) is to condemn one's soul to hell."

I shall not be moved. I know this message is outdated amid the clatter of the current ecumincal enviornment, but there's a reason men like Wycliffe, Huss, Luther, Calvin, Zwingly, and Knox cried out for reform. For radical reformers like the anabaptists, Reform wasn't enough - utter Separation (Schism) was the only viable solution. I am shocked and appalled by those who are seeking to undo the Reformation right now.

Again I thank you for being straight and having the gumption to recognize what we're dealing with here. Namely, somebody's right and somebody's wrong. And there really isn't any middle ground.

I maybe wrong but I don't think you actually fit in that group. A person in this group knows that they are following a deception, and they knowingly and willingly follow. I do not think you are intentionally leading yourself or others in deception. I would pray though that we would have a heart open to hear the truth given by the Holy Spirit, and be willing to change our mind, if in fact we discover we are following a deception, and not stubbornly follow the deception anyway.
Can you see how that is much different then a blanket statement that the Catholic Church condemns all people in any other religion?

God Bless,
K.D.

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