I became a Follower of Christ by asking God for His Spirit. It took many years of asking but the Lord finally gave me what I asked for. When His Spirit came He led me into all truth.

I only had to ask once....then l was saved....No one has to beg God for salvation.

His Spirit justifies us. When WE say yes to sanctification the Holy Spirit refines us.

Perhaps he is talking about the baptism of the Holy Ghost. In my experience, they salvation and the outpouring of the Spirit are two different things.

[quote=Elijah,Jan 3 2006, 04:25 AM]
I became a Follower of Christ by asking God for His Spirit. It took many years of asking but the Lord finally gave me what I asked for. When His Spirit came He led me into all truth.
[right][snapback]31192[/snapback][/right]
[/quote]

Haven't seen your name in a while, Elijah! It's good to see you back here. Any thoughts you want to share with us, since it's been a while?

[quote=jhamner,Jan 3 2006, 05:14 PM]
Perhaps he is talking about the baptism of the Holy Ghost. In my experience, they salvation and the outpouring of the Spirit are two different things.
[right][snapback]31239[/snapback][/right]
[/quote]

You are right. It is two things. Acts 8 is one passage where you can see it clearly. There are others as well in Acts.

12But when they believed the good news (the Gospel) about the kingdom of God and the name of Jesus Christ (the Messiah) as Philip preached it, they were baptized, both men and women.


13Even Simon himself believed [he adhered to, trusted in, and relied on the teaching of Philip], and after being baptized, devoted himself constantly to him. And seeing signs and miracles of great power which were being performed, he was utterly amazed.


14Now when the apostles (special messengers) at Jerusalem heard that [the country of] Samaria had accepted and welcomed the Word of God, they sent Peter and John to them,

15And they came down and prayed for them that the Samaritans might receive the Holy Spirit;
16For He had not yet fallen upon any of them, but they had only been baptized into the name of the Lord Jesus.
17Then [the apostles] laid their hands on them one by one, and they received the Holy Spirit.


In some cases God will fill somebody at the same time as the new birth. God cannot be limited to how we expect Him to work. It is however up to each believer to make sure that he/she has received the Baptism of the Spirit, as it is not something that has to happen on salvation.
Let me be clear and state, that I do not believe it is a requirement for salvation , but I know from experience that you will have a "slimmer" walk with God without the baptism of the Spirit.

I know that people like to argue about it, but one cannot argue with what God wants for us.
I have had the privilege to witness numerous baptisms in the Spirit and the changes that it caused in the lives of the people. I saw a church come to life, after first preaching against it, and them God just took over and threw all the preconceived ideas out. The congregation grew from 300 to about 7000. We experienced such a renewal.

Cornelius

Belief is the prerequisite to the baptism of the Holy Spirit. Not the laying on of hands. That doesn't mean the laying on of hands is wrong. It's just not a prerequisite...Belief is.

What is baptism? It's the immersion into full working power of God (Holy Spirit)with signs and wonders following. Because you believe you are able to open the door of your heart and allow God to fill you up....BUT! Remember...He's already in their because you invited him at salvation. So he fills you from the inside out.

I know this is foreign to you because you've been taught to think that the Baptism of the Holy Spirit comes from outside. But once you are saved and invite Jesus into your heart it can only come from the inside...right? Because the kingdom of God is with in you. This becomes a matter of semantics if we let it.

I've struggled with this issue because of latent human soul power. (Kundalini)

I've thought about it over and over and over again in my mind....

But l have to finally believe scripture. I met the prerequisites...I tested myself and was tested. I asked for bread and got it.

Something has to click....revelation knowledge. When we are saved we believe with our heads. But when we are born again we believe with our whole heart to the point that we're willing to submit to the sanctification process.

What does that look like....?

For me it was staying and standing in the existing circumstances and allowing God to change me and not the circumstances. My prayer was..."Change me God. Because when you change me then you can REALLY use me to reach others".

Understand?

This didn't happen because someone laided hands on me and l was changed in an instant...This was a process and still is. As l grow the manifested nature of God in me reveals it's self to an unbelieving world.

I'm not there yet....But l see the light at the end of the tunnel....
_______________________________________________________
Here's a word l got in my mail box this morning:

January 2, 2006
Jeannette Rodgers
www.NewWineToday.org
Rise Up, Rise Up, Oh Sons of God.

Romans 8:19

"For the earnest expectation of the creation eagerly waits for the revealing of the sons of God.

Rise up, Rise up, Oh Sons of God.....

For the Lord is revealing the true sons who have been under the anvil in Christ Jesus. These are the sons who are coming forth in this season. Many have been in directed and appointed places but you have not seen it as such. The Light of the Lord has been shining in places that were once dark because you stood long enough for Him to shed His light through your life unto many. He has used you and your life in "certain" places and "certain" situations at a "certain" time to reveal HIS glory. Do not think it a strange thing if you see that the "time has come" to move on to something new or to that new place in Him; do not fear but stand in the strength of the Lord. Trust in Him as you move according to HIS plans and release all that He requires of you to release. Though it "may appear" that you have had to release "certain" things because of something you have done wrong, the Lord is moving you because it is RIGHT. For some, this has caused you pain, or heartache because you cannot fully understand the depths of His mighty blueprint. Know that this was not meant for harm but for good. For the Lord thy God is in the midst of thee, constantly moving about and moving things about; according to HIS perfect plans for this earth and with your life; and for RIGHT NOW.

Romans 8:12-17
Sonship Through the Spirit
12 Therefore, brethren, we are debtors not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh. 13 For if you live according to the flesh you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live. 14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God. 15 For you did not receive the spirit of bondage again to fear, but you received the Spirit of adoption by whom we cry out, "Abba, Father." 16 The Spirit Himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God, 17 and if children, then heirs; heirs of God and joint heirs with Christ, if indeed we suffer with Him, that we may also be glorified together.

"It has been difficult, but you have stood. It has been trying, but you have endured, you "felt" alone, but from the loneliness you have grown nearer to Me, saith the Lord God Almighty. You thought with your mind that you could not go on, but now you are stronger than ever before. For many await the revealing and the coming of the True sons of GOD who will show forth the love of the Father, the Son, and move only according to His Holy Spirit. You have held your tongue, walked in sandals of peace and judged not. You have cried in your closet and left a river of tears. You serve without recognition, expect nothing in return and keep the ministry that has been entrusted to you close to your heart as you continue to move diligently by My Spirit. You are not easily persuaded, you stand firm; because you have allowed Me to be your leaning post. You have continued even when stones have been thrown, accusations made, and no appreciation given. You have prayed without ceasing, believed without doubting, and loved unconditionally. When you were rejected you kept going, when you were neglected you persevered. You have moved by My word and My truth when no one else would stand with you. You did not compromise or dilute the Living word for fame, for fortune, or recognition. You give of yourself and of your life freely because you know that freely you have received. You have been willing to yield, and willing to let go. "

You are the sons of God who are about to be revealed.

Much has been removed, some have been redirected, things have been repositioned, people have been moved into place. The plans are being unveiled, the curtain drawn back, the blueprint was finished long ago and now it will come to pass.
The King of Kings and Lord of Lords is the Master Architect and His plans have been ready before the beginning and from the end. The humbleness and humility that has been revealed; though a painful process, has caused His love to shine brighter than you can know or see in yourself. At times many are left without words to simply express what they actually see because they are breath taken by the likeness of Christ in you.

"There are times this will be made known too, so you will know I see all things and acknowledge and love you with an everlasting love. The precious gift of time that you have invested, your life that you have given, and the love that you have shared, will bring forth much fruit; and many more will eat of the fruit in this hour." For you will be as a tree planted by the Rivers of Living Water; in which Life will yield and many will be healed. For in this hour, the revealing of the sons of GOD will bring forth love in a measure greater than seen with the natural eye.

Now in this hour the TRUE SONS OF GOD are being revealed.

Rise up , Rise Up, Oh sons of GOD....for your time has come. You have repaid good to those who have done wrong unto you. You have held your tongue and it has brought peace to a war, you have given when you did not have for yourself. It is the time NOW, that you My SON, My DAUGHTER, will come forward. You have overcome, you have endured, you have given much. Great is the measure of the Love that will shine through you. Many will be drawn by the Love that I am revealing through you and your willingness to surrender fully unto My will at all cost.

Romans 8:38

For I am persuaded that neither death nor life, nor angels nor principalities nor powers, nor things present nor things to come, 39 nor height nor depth, nor any other created thing, shall be able to separate us from the love of God which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.



The hours that have past have required much and the hour ahead will require more.
Rise up, Rise up Oh SONS of GOD. For I prepared you for such a time as this.




Romans 8 (New King James Version)
Free from Indwelling Sin
1 There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit. 2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death. 3 For what the law could not do in that it was weak through the flesh, God did by sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, on account of sin: He condemned sin in the flesh, 4 that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. 5 For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit. 6 For to be carnally minded is death, but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. 7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be. 8 So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God.9 But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His. 10 And if Christ is in you, the body is dead because of sin, but the Spirit is life because of righteousness. 11 But if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit who dwells in you.
Sonship Through the Spirit
12 Therefore, brethren, we are debtors?not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh. 13 For if you live according to the flesh you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live. 14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God. 15 For you did not receive the spirit of bondage again to fear, but you received the Spirit of adoption by whom we cry out, "Abba, Father." 16 The Spirit Himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God, 17 and if children, then heirs?heirs of God and joint heirs with Christ, if indeed we suffer with Him, that we may also be glorified together.
From Suffering to Glory
18 For I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us. 19 For the earnest expectation of the creation eagerly waits for the revealing of the sons of God. 20 For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of Him who subjected it in hope; 21 because the creation itself also will be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God. 22 For we know that the whole creation groans and labors with birth pangs together until now. 23 Not only that, but we also who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, eagerly waiting for the adoption, the redemption of our body. 24 For we were saved in this hope, but hope that is seen is not hope; for why does one still hope for what he sees? 25 But if we hope for what we do not see, we eagerly wait for it with perseverance. 26 Likewise the Spirit also helps in our weaknesses. For we do not know what we should pray for as we ought, but the Spirit Himself makes intercession for us[b] with groanings which cannot be uttered. 27 Now He who searches the hearts knows what the mind of the Spi rit is, because He makes intercession for the saints according to the will of God. 28 And we know that all things work together for good to those who love God, to those who are the called according to His purpose. 29 For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren. 30 Moreover whom He predestined, these He also called; whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified.
God's Everlasting Love
31 What then shall we say to these things? If God is for us, who can be against us? 32 He who did not spare His own Son, but delivered Him up for us all, how shall He not with Him also freely give us all things? 33 Who shall bring a charge against God?s elect? It is God who justifies. 34 Who is he who condemns? It is Christ who died, and furthermore is also risen, who is even at the right hand of God, who also makes intercession for us. 35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword? 36 As it is written:
" For Your sake we are killed all day long;
We are accounted as sheep for the slaughter." 37 Yet in all these things we are more than conquerors through Him who loved us. 38 For I am persuaded that neither death nor life, nor angels nor principalities nor powers, nor things present nor things to come, 39 nor height nor depth, nor any other created thing, shall be able to separate us from the love of God which is in Christ Jesus our Lord".
___________________________________________

If you want to know my secret fears....?

I'm afraid l'm not going to make it....

Then l trust again...then l stand again...then he lifts my head again.

He carries me when l can not walk....only....

because of his mercy...Praise is Holy Name!!

[quote=Miki,Jan 5 2006, 09:12 AM]
Belief is the prerequisite to the baptism of the Holy Spirit. Not the laying on of hands. That doesn't mean the laying on of hands is wrong. It's just not a prerequisite...Belief is.

What is baptism? It's the immersion into full working power of God (Holy Spirit)with signs and wonders following. Because you believe you are able to open the door of your heart and allow God to fill you up....BUT! Remember...He's already in their because you invited him at salvation. So he fills you from the inside out.

I know this is foreign to you because you've been taught to think that the Baptism of the Holy Spirit comes from outside. But once you are saved and invite Jesus into your heart it can only come from the inside...right? Because the kingdom of God is with in you. This becomes a matter of semantics if we let it.

I've struggled with this issue because of latent human soul power. (Kundalini)

I've thought about it over and over and over again in my mind....

But l have to finally believe scripture. I met the prerequisites...I tested myself and was tested. I asked for bread and got it.

Something has to click....revelation knowledge. When we are saved we believe with our heads. But when we are born again we believe with our whole heart to the point that we're willing to submit to the sanctification process.

What does that look like....?

For me it was staying and standing in the existing circumstances and allowing God to change me and not the circumstances. My prayer was..."Change me God. Because when you change me then you can REALLY use me to reach others".

Understand?

This didn't happen because someone laided hands on me and l was changed in an instant...This was a process and still is. As l grow the manifested nature of God in me reveals it's self to an unbelieving world.

I'm not there yet....But l see the light at the end of the tunnel....
_______________________________________________________
Here's a word l got in my mail box this morning:

January 2, 2006
Jeannette Rodgers
www.NewWineToday.org
Rise Up, Rise Up, Oh Sons of God.

Romans 8:19

"For the earnest expectation of the creation eagerly waits for the revealing of the sons of God.

Rise up, Rise up, Oh Sons of God.....

For the Lord is revealing the true sons who have been under the anvil in Christ Jesus. These are the sons who are coming forth in this season. Many have been in directed and appointed places but you have not seen it as such. The Light of the Lord has been shining in places that were once dark because you stood long enough for Him to shed His light through your life unto many. He has used you and your life in "certain" places and "certain" situations at a "certain" time to reveal HIS glory. Do not think it a strange thing if you see that the "time has come" to move on to something new or to that new place in Him; do not fear but stand in the strength of the Lord. Trust in Him as you move according to HIS plans and release all that He requires of you to release. Though it "may appear" that you have had to release "certain" things because of something you have done wrong, the Lord is moving you because it is RIGHT. For some, this has caused you pain, or heartache because you cannot fully understand the depths of His mighty blueprint. Know that this was not meant for harm but for good. For the Lord thy God is in the midst of thee, constantly moving about and moving things about; according to HIS perfect plans for this earth and with your life; and for RIGHT NOW.

Romans 8:12-17
Sonship Through the Spirit
12 Therefore, brethren, we are debtors not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh. 13 For if you live according to the flesh you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live. 14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God. 15 For you did not receive the spirit of bondage again to fear, but you received the Spirit of adoption by whom we cry out, "Abba, Father." 16 The Spirit Himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God, 17 and if children, then heirs; heirs of God and joint heirs with Christ, if indeed we suffer with Him, that we may also be glorified together.

"It has been difficult, but you have stood. It has been trying, but you have endured, you "felt" alone, but from the loneliness you have grown nearer to Me, saith the Lord God Almighty. You thought with your mind that you could not go on, but now you are stronger than ever before. For many await the revealing and the coming of the True sons of GOD who will show forth the love of the Father, the Son, and move only according to His Holy Spirit. You have held your tongue, walked in sandals of peace and judged not. You have cried in your closet and left a river of tears. You serve without recognition, expect nothing in return and keep the ministry that has been entrusted to you close to your heart as you continue to move diligently by My Spirit. You are not easily persuaded, you stand firm; because you have allowed Me to be your leaning post. You have continued even when stones have been thrown, accusations made, and no appreciation given. You have prayed without ceasing, believed without doubting, and loved unconditionally. When you were rejected you kept going, when you were neglected you persevered. You have moved by My word and My truth when no one else would stand with you. You did not compromise or dilute the Living word for fame, for fortune, or recognition. You give of yourself and of your life freely because you know that freely you have received. You have been willing to yield, and willing to let go. "

You are the sons of God who are about to be revealed.

Much has been removed, some have been redirected, things have been repositioned, people have been moved into place. The plans are being unveiled, the curtain drawn back, the blueprint was finished long ago and now it will come to pass.
The King of Kings and Lord of Lords is the Master Architect and His plans have been ready before the beginning and from the end. The humbleness and humility that has been revealed; though a painful process, has caused His love to shine brighter than you can know or see in yourself. At times many are left without words to simply express what they actually see because they are breath taken by the likeness of Christ in you.

"There are times this will be made known too, so you will know I see all things and acknowledge and love you with an everlasting love. The precious gift of time that you have invested, your life that you have given, and the love that you have shared, will bring forth much fruit; and many more will eat of the fruit in this hour." For you will be as a tree planted by the Rivers of Living Water; in which Life will yield and many will be healed. For in this hour, the revealing of the sons of GOD will bring forth love in a measure greater than seen with the natural eye.

Now in this hour the TRUE SONS OF GOD are being revealed.

Rise up , Rise Up, Oh sons of GOD....for your time has come. You have repaid good to those who have done wrong unto you. You have held your tongue and it has brought peace to a war, you have given when you did not have for yourself. It is the time NOW, that you My SON, My DAUGHTER, will come forward. You have overcome, you have endured, you have given much. Great is the measure of the Love that will shine through you. Many will be drawn by the Love that I am revealing through you and your willingness to surrender fully unto My will at all cost.

Romans 8:38

For I am persuaded that neither death nor life, nor angels nor principalities nor powers, nor things present nor things to come, 39 nor height nor depth, nor any other created thing, shall be able to separate us from the love of God which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.



The hours that have past have required much and the hour ahead will require more.
Rise up, Rise up Oh SONS of GOD. For I prepared you for such a time as this.




Romans 8 (New King James Version)
Free from Indwelling Sin
1 There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit. 2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death. 3 For what the law could not do in that it was weak through the flesh, God did by sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, on account of sin: He condemned sin in the flesh, 4 that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. 5 For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit. 6 For to be carnally minded is death, but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. 7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be. 8 So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God.9 But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His. 10 And if Christ is in you, the body is dead because of sin, but the Spirit is life because of righteousness. 11 But if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit who dwells in you.
Sonship Through the Spirit
12 Therefore, brethren, we are debtors?not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh. 13 For if you live according to the flesh you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live. 14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God. 15 For you did not receive the spirit of bondage again to fear, but you received the Spirit of adoption by whom we cry out, "Abba, Father." 16 The Spirit Himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God, 17 and if children, then heirs?heirs of God and joint heirs with Christ, if indeed we suffer with Him, that we may also be glorified together.
From Suffering to Glory
18 For I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us. 19 For the earnest expectation of the creation eagerly waits for the revealing of the sons of God. 20 For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of Him who subjected it in hope; 21 because the creation itself also will be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God. 22 For we know that the whole creation groans and labors with birth pangs together until now. 23 Not only that, but we also who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, eagerly waiting for the adoption, the redemption of our body. 24 For we were saved in this hope, but hope that is seen is not hope; for why does one still hope for what he sees? 25 But if we hope for what we do not see, we eagerly wait for it with perseverance. 26 Likewise the Spirit also helps in our weaknesses. For we do not know what we should pray for as we ought, but the Spirit Himself makes intercession for us[b] with groanings which cannot be uttered. 27 Now He who searches the hearts knows what the mind of the Spi rit is, because He makes intercession for the saints according to the will of God. 28 And we know that all things work together for good to those who love God, to those who are the called according to His purpose. 29 For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren. 30 Moreover whom He predestined, these He also called; whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified.
God's Everlasting Love
31 What then shall we say to these things? If God is for us, who can be against us? 32 He who did not spare His own Son, but delivered Him up for us all, how shall He not with Him also freely give us all things? 33 Who shall bring a charge against God?s elect? It is God who justifies. 34 Who is he who condemns? It is Christ who died, and furthermore is also risen, who is even at the right hand of God, who also makes intercession for us. 35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword? 36 As it is written:
" For Your sake we are killed all day long;
We are accounted as sheep for the slaughter." 37 Yet in all these things we are more than conquerors through Him who loved us. 38 For I am persuaded that neither death nor life, nor angels nor principalities nor powers, nor things present nor things to come, 39 nor height nor depth, nor any other created thing, shall be able to separate us from the love of God which is in Christ Jesus our Lord".
___________________________________________

If you want to know my secret fears....?

I'm afraid l'm not going to make it....

Then l trust again...then l stand again...then he lifts my head again.

He carries me when l can not walk....only....

because of his mercy...Praise is Holy Name!!
[right][snapback]31656[/snapback][/right]
[/quote]
Great Miki,
God's mercy is great, is enduring, and will reach through all eternity.! You will make it! God will see to it!!
justaservant

My dear sister in the Lord.Miki He died so that we can make it.
I also want to share that you are not alone in these fears. We all at some stage go through this testing.
The enemy likes this one, BUT , the blood of Jesus paid and He is faithful!
I also sense , as your prophecy said, that you are standing in front of new door.
I sense that God is wanting to take you higher.Don't fear, your Father is able, where you are weak He is strong.
love in Jesus
Cornelius

[quote=Cornelius,Jan 6 2006, 10:53 AM]
My dear sister in the Lord.Miki He died so that we can make it.
I also want to share that you are not alone in these fears. We all at some stage go through this testing.
The enemy likes this one, BUT , the blood of Jesus paid and He is faithful!
I also sense , as your prophecy said, that you are standing in front of new door.
I sense that God is wanting to take you higher.Don't fear, your Father is able, where you are weak He is strong.
love in Jesus
Cornelius
[right][snapback]32038[/snapback][/right]
[/quote]
Phi 1:6 Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform [it] until the day of Jesus Christ:

Good enough for me.

[quote=justaservant,Jan 5 2006, 03:01 PM]
[quote=Miki,Jan 5 2006, 09:12 AM]
Belief is the prerequisite to the baptism of the Holy Spirit. Not the laying on of hands. That doesn't mean the laying on of hands is wrong. It's just not a prerequisite...Belief is.

What is baptism? It's the immersion into full working power of God (Holy Spirit)with signs and wonders following. Because you believe you are able to open the door of your heart and allow God to fill you up....BUT! Remember...He's already in their because you invited him at salvation. So he fills you from the inside out.

I know this is foreign to you because you've been taught to think that the Baptism of the Holy Spirit comes from outside. But once you are saved and invite Jesus into your heart it can only come from the inside...right? Because the kingdom of God is with in you. This becomes a matter of semantics if we let it.

I've struggled with this issue because of latent human soul power. (Kundalini)

I've thought about it over and over and over again in my mind....

But l have to finally believe scripture. I met the prerequisites...I tested myself and was tested. I asked for bread and got it.

Something has to click....revelation knowledge. When we are saved we believe with our heads. But when we are born again we believe with our whole heart to the point that we're willing to submit to the sanctification process.

What does that look like....?

For me it was staying and standing in the existing circumstances and allowing God to change me and not the circumstances. My prayer was..."Change me God. Because when you change me then you can REALLY use me to reach others".

Understand?

This didn't happen because someone laided hands on me and l was changed in an instant...This was a process and still is. As l grow the manifested nature of God in me reveals it's self to an unbelieving world.

I'm not there yet....But l see the light at the end of the tunnel....
_______________________________________________________
Here's a word l got in my mail box this morning:

January 2, 2006
Jeannette Rodgers
www.NewWineToday.org
Rise Up, Rise Up, Oh Sons of God.

Romans 8:19

"For the earnest expectation of the creation eagerly waits for the revealing of the sons of God.

Rise up, Rise up, Oh Sons of God.....

For the Lord is revealing the true sons who have been under the anvil in Christ Jesus. These are the sons who are coming forth in this season. Many have been in directed and appointed places but you have not seen it as such. The Light of the Lord has been shining in places that were once dark because you stood long enough for Him to shed His light through your life unto many. He has used you and your life in "certain" places and "certain" situations at a "certain" time to reveal HIS glory. Do not think it a strange thing if you see that the "time has come" to move on to something new or to that new place in Him; do not fear but stand in the strength of the Lord. Trust in Him as you move according to HIS plans and release all that He requires of you to release. Though it "may appear" that you have had to release "certain" things because of something you have done wrong, the Lord is moving you because it is RIGHT. For some, this has caused you pain, or heartache because you cannot fully understand the depths of His mighty blueprint. Know that this was not meant for harm but for good. For the Lord thy God is in the midst of thee, constantly moving about and moving things about; according to HIS perfect plans for this earth and with your life; and for RIGHT NOW.

Romans 8:12-17
Sonship Through the Spirit
12 Therefore, brethren, we are debtors not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh. 13 For if you live according to the flesh you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live. 14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God. 15 For you did not receive the spirit of bondage again to fear, but you received the Spirit of adoption by whom we cry out, "Abba, Father." 16 The Spirit Himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God, 17 and if children, then heirs; heirs of God and joint heirs with Christ, if indeed we suffer with Him, that we may also be glorified together.

"It has been difficult, but you have stood. It has been trying, but you have endured, you "felt" alone, but from the loneliness you have grown nearer to Me, saith the Lord God Almighty. You thought with your mind that you could not go on, but now you are stronger than ever before. For many await the revealing and the coming of the True sons of GOD who will show forth the love of the Father, the Son, and move only according to His Holy Spirit. You have held your tongue, walked in sandals of peace and judged not. You have cried in your closet and left a river of tears. You serve without recognition, expect nothing in return and keep the ministry that has been entrusted to you close to your heart as you continue to move diligently by My Spirit. You are not easily persuaded, you stand firm; because you have allowed Me to be your leaning post. You have continued even when stones have been thrown, accusations made, and no appreciation given. You have prayed without ceasing, believed without doubting, and loved unconditionally. When you were rejected you kept going, when you were neglected you persevered. You have moved by My word and My truth when no one else would stand with you. You did not compromise or dilute the Living word for fame, for fortune, or recognition. You give of yourself and of your life freely because you know that freely you have received. You have been willing to yield, and willing to let go. "

You are the sons of God who are about to be revealed.

Much has been removed, some have been redirected, things have been repositioned, people have been moved into place. The plans are being unveiled, the curtain drawn back, the blueprint was finished long ago and now it will come to pass.
The King of Kings and Lord of Lords is the Master Architect and His plans have been ready before the beginning and from the end. The humbleness and humility that has been revealed; though a painful process, has caused His love to shine brighter than you can know or see in yourself. At times many are left without words to simply express what they actually see because they are breath taken by the likeness of Christ in you.

"There are times this will be made known too, so you will know I see all things and acknowledge and love you with an everlasting love. The precious gift of time that you have invested, your life that you have given, and the love that you have shared, will bring forth much fruit; and many more will eat of the fruit in this hour." For you will be as a tree planted by the Rivers of Living Water; in which Life will yield and many will be healed. For in this hour, the revealing of the sons of GOD will bring forth love in a measure greater than seen with the natural eye.

Now in this hour the TRUE SONS OF GOD are being revealed.

Rise up , Rise Up, Oh sons of GOD....for your time has come. You have repaid good to those who have done wrong unto you. You have held your tongue and it has brought peace to a war, you have given when you did not have for yourself. It is the time NOW, that you My SON, My DAUGHTER, will come forward. You have overcome, you have endured, you have given much. Great is the measure of the Love that will shine through you. Many will be drawn by the Love that I am revealing through you and your willingness to surrender fully unto My will at all cost.

Romans 8:38

For I am persuaded that neither death nor life, nor angels nor principalities nor powers, nor things present nor things to come, 39 nor height nor depth, nor any other created thing, shall be able to separate us from the love of God which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.



The hours that have past have required much and the hour ahead will require more.
Rise up, Rise up Oh SONS of GOD. For I prepared you for such a time as this.




Romans 8 (New King James Version)
Free from Indwelling Sin
1 There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit. 2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death. 3 For what the law could not do in that it was weak through the flesh, God did by sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, on account of sin: He condemned sin in the flesh, 4 that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. 5 For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit. 6 For to be carnally minded is death, but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. 7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be. 8 So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God.9 But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His. 10 And if Christ is in you, the body is dead because of sin, but the Spirit is life because of righteousness. 11 But if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit who dwells in you.
Sonship Through the Spirit
12 Therefore, brethren, we are debtors?not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh. 13 For if you live according to the flesh you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live. 14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God. 15 For you did not receive the spirit of bondage again to fear, but you received the Spirit of adoption by whom we cry out, "Abba, Father." 16 The Spirit Himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God, 17 and if children, then heirs?heirs of God and joint heirs with Christ, if indeed we suffer with Him, that we may also be glorified together.
From Suffering to Glory
18 For I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us. 19 For the earnest expectation of the creation eagerly waits for the revealing of the sons of God. 20 For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of Him who subjected it in hope; 21 because the creation itself also will be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God. 22 For we know that the whole creation groans and labors with birth pangs together until now. 23 Not only that, but we also who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, eagerly waiting for the adoption, the redemption of our body. 24 For we were saved in this hope, but hope that is seen is not hope; for why does one still hope for what he sees? 25 But if we hope for what we do not see, we eagerly wait for it with perseverance. 26 Likewise the Spirit also helps in our weaknesses. For we do not know what we should pray for as we ought, but the Spirit Himself makes intercession for us[b] with groanings which cannot be uttered. 27 Now He who searches the hearts knows what the mind of the Spi rit is, because He makes intercession for the saints according to the will of God. 28 And we know that all things work together for good to those who love God, to those who are the called according to His purpose. 29 For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren. 30 Moreover whom He predestined, these He also called; whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified.
God's Everlasting Love
31 What then shall we say to these things? If God is for us, who can be against us? 32 He who did not spare His own Son, but delivered Him up for us all, how shall He not with Him also freely give us all things? 33 Who shall bring a charge against God?s elect? It is God who justifies. 34 Who is he who condemns? It is Christ who died, and furthermore is also risen, who is even at the right hand of God, who also makes intercession for us. 35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword? 36 As it is written:
" For Your sake we are killed all day long;
We are accounted as sheep for the slaughter." 37 Yet in all these things we are more than conquerors through Him who loved us. 38 For I am persuaded that neither death nor life, nor angels nor principalities nor powers, nor things present nor things to come, 39 nor height nor depth, nor any other created thing, shall be able to separate us from the love of God which is in Christ Jesus our Lord".
___________________________________________

If you want to know my secret fears....?

I'm afraid l'm not going to make it....

Then l trust again...then l stand again...then he lifts my head again.

He carries me when l can not walk....only....

because of his mercy...Praise is Holy Name!!
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Great Miki,
God's mercy is great, is enduring, and will reach through all eternity.! You will make it! God will see to it!!
justaservant
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The prophetic is about "manifested sons" only she calls it "the True sons of GOD who will show forth the love of the Father" I am grateful for that...

[quote=justaservant,Jan 5 2006, 05:01 PM]
[quote=Miki,Jan 5 2006, 09:12 AM]
[Beginnig Quote]Belief is the prerequisite to the baptism of the Holy Spirit. Not the laying on of hands. That doesn't mean the laying on of hands is wrong. It's just not a prerequisite...Belief is.

What is baptism? It's the immersion into full working power of God (Holy Spirit)with signs and wonders following. Because you believe you are able to open the door of your heart and allow God to fill you up....BUT! Remember...He's already in their because you invited him at salvation. So he fills you from the inside out.

I know this is foreign to you because you've been taught to think that the Baptism of the Holy Spirit comes from outside. But once you are saved and invite Jesus into your heart it can only come from the inside...right? Because the kingdom of God is with in you. This becomes a matter of semantics if we let it.

I've struggled with this issue because of latent human soul power. (Kundalini)

I've thought about it over and over and over again in my mind....

But l have to finally believe scripture. I met the prerequisites...I tested myself and was tested. I asked for bread and got it.

Something has to click....revelation knowledge. When we are saved we believe with our heads. But when we are born again we believe with our whole heart to the point that we're willing to submit to the sanctification process.

What does that look like....?

For me it was staying and standing in the existing circumstances and allowing God to change me and not the circumstances. My prayer was..."Change me God. Because when you change me then you can REALLY use me to reach others".

Understand?

This didn't happen because someone laided hands on me and l was changed in an instant...This was a process and still is. As l grow the manifested nature of God in me reveals it's self to an unbelieving world.

I'm not there yet....But l see the light at the end of the tunnel....[/End Quote]
_______________________________________________________

Miki, I agree with C, I see that you are about to receive a new indwelling of the Holy Spirit. What I've seen, by reading those posts we had back and forth in that forum, what the devil tried to take from you, he is truly a theif, but the Cops were on guard, God is so GOOD!!! You are at a turning point, don't let doubt set in and take it....My new friend in Christ....Pamela

When l was saved l had the fullness of Christ. At 8 years old.

But it just wasn't released in me...and still isn't (the fullness that is) but there's more and more all the time...

When l finally believed in 1979...I was born again. It birthed the decision to change. I bought a Bible...l burned my old books...God brought an awesome mentor across my path who just happened to have been delivered from the same things as myself.

Sanctification had begun! Even though at the time l didn't understand what those words ment....God didn't care...He was molding and shaping me.

Hell became a raging storm But l stood....

I'm not going to tell you the next 25 or so years of life experiances that have brought me here today.

But I began to speak in 1999...in more of an official manner even though l'd been hearing God for years and years...'God' called me to step out.

To a few church members etc...(I had a bit to learn still and the enemy was waiting )) Now l only speak to those in authority over me and allow them to make decisions surrounding what l say. At least in Church where spoken words can effect a lot of people.

I know submitting like that probably bugs a few of you but that's the decision l made out of love and respect for my Pastor.

My prayer partner and l share what he shows me...Thank God for a great prayer partner!

Is he going to, as Pam says, give me a "new" indwelling of the Holy Spirit? Or just reveal more of his indwelling presence? Is This a matter of semantics?

My educated guess would be the first...But l have a sneaky feeling it's both...knowing how God sometimes works...But God is omnipotent anyway...He is all and all and everywhere. I trust him.

Jesus came into my life when l was saved and he lit the fire of my lamp (that was already in me) when l made a decision to make him my Lord.

I won't let the flame go out by falling asleep.

Miki, can you explain what this is please?

[QUOTE]
I've struggled with this issue because of latent human soul power. (Kundalini)
[/QUOTE]


Curious to know what you are exactly referring to regarding Kundalini.

Looking forward to hearing what you have to say.

Thanks.

[quote=Miki,Jan 7 2006, 06:41 AM]
When l was saved l had the fullness of Christ. At 8 years old.

But it just wasn't released in me...and still isn't (the fullness that is) but there's more and more all the time...

When l finally believed in 1979...I was born again. It birthed the decision to change. I bought a Bible...l burned my old books...God brought an awesome mentor across my path who just happened to have been delivered from the same things as myself.

Sanctification had begun! Even though at the time l didn't understand what those words ment....God didn't care...He was molding and shaping me.

Hell became a raging storm But l stood....

I'm not going to tell you the next 25 or so years of life experiances that have brought me here today.

But I began to speak in 1999...in more of an official manner even though l'd been hearing God for years and years...'God' called me to step out.

To a few church members etc...(I had a bit to learn still and the enemy was waiting )) Now l only speak to those in authority over me and allow them to make decisions surrounding what l say. At least in Church where spoken words can effect a lot of people.

I know submitting like that probably bugs a few of you but that's the decision l made out of love and respect for my Pastor.

My prayer partner and l share what he shows me...Thank God for a great prayer partner!

Is he going to, as Pam says, give me a "new" indwelling of the Holy Spirit? Or just reveal more of his indwelling presence? Is This a matter of semantics?

My educated guess would be the first...But l have a sneaky feeling it's both...knowing how God sometimes works...But God is omnipotent anyway...He is all and all and everywhere. I trust him.
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Another meaning of a new indwelling is to receive a new insight, new understanding. That is what I mean't. I didn't say that to draw on an emotion to create a certain effect, which is my understanding of the word semantic. I agreed with Coreluis to stand in agreement because I received the same insight that he did. I just worded it differenly. I think I am not understanding your post. Please forgive me and let me know if I got it totally wrong in my understanding.

Kundalini can be Googled...

Pam,

I didn't think you meant those things.. To me semantics is just two different ways of saying the same thing. When l was saved the lamp was placed in me(lamb) born again..Fire was lit...He comes to baptise with fire and the Holy Ghost.

With the fire of sanctification.

I wonder though...Not about the above but something l think God might have shown me today...Something coming, for me...

but l can't say....just a little shaken...

[quote=Miki,Jan 7 2006, 06:27 PM]
Kundalini can be Googled...

Pam,

I didn't think you meant those things.. To me semantics is just two different ways of saying the same thing. When l was saved the lamp was placed in me(lamb) born again..Fire was lit...He comes to baptise with fire and the Holy Ghost.

With the fire of sanctification.

I wonder though...Not about the above but something l think God might have shown me today...Something coming, for me...

but l can't say....just a little shaken...
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Oh okay, thats good, I thought I made you mad...sorry...
Well I don't really know what to say to your last thought there. If I can help just email me... I will be praying for you.....

So after l have the lamp lamb in me (justification, salvation) ) the wick is lit by the fire of the Holy Spirit and sanctification begins...

If the lamp stays lit it must eventually run out of oil or the other 5 virgins wouldn't need to be asking the others for some.

There must have to be a new infilling of the cruet...?

So how do you get the new oil after you've used up what you've got?

You go the the oil merchant of course!

Well...he probably used that metaphor because there actually were oil merchants in those days...They sold oil everywhere in the markets.

But the kind of oil we have can't be bought...I'm reminded of the rebuke given to someone who wanted to buy:

"But Peter said unto him, Thy money perish with thee, because thou hast thought that the gift of God may be purchased with money. Thou hast neither part nor lot in this matter: for thy heart is not right in the sight of God. Repent therefore of this thy wickedness, and pray God, if perhaps the thought of thine heart may be forgiven thee. I perceive that thou art in the gall of bitterness, and in the bond of iniquity," Acts 8:20-23.

Although it's not exactly the same, in the OT Elisha's servant Gehazi tried to get money for Namans healing after Elisha had refused but Gehazi was struck with leprosy.

Freely ye heave received, freely give. So why would he tell the other 5 to go buy if it wasn't sarcastic....?

Maybe the kind of oil THEY had runs out.....But ours never runs out. It's an eternal spring in us...

As we burn it it keeps coming and coming like the menorah that never ran out of oil...


I don't think l need a Dr. after all!

[quote=Miki,Jan 8 2006, 07:43 AM]
So after l have the lamp lamb in me (justification, salvation) ) the wick is lit by the fire of the Holy Spirit and sanctification begins...

If the lamp stays lit it must eventually run out of oil or the other 5 virgins wouldn't need to be asking the others for some.

There must have to be a new infilling of the cruet...?

So how do you get the new oil after you've used up what you've got?

You go the the oil merchant of course!

Well...he probably used that metaphor because there actually were oil merchants in those days...They sold oil everywhere in the markets.

But the kind of oil we have can't be bought...I'm reminded of the rebuke given to someone who wanted to buy:

"But Peter said unto him, Thy money perish with thee, because thou hast thought that the gift of God may be purchased with money. Thou hast neither part nor lot in this matter: for thy heart is not right in the sight of God. Repent therefore of this thy wickedness, and pray God, if perhaps the thought of thine heart may be forgiven thee. I perceive that thou art in the gall of bitterness, and in the bond of iniquity," Acts 8:20-23.

Although it's not exactly the same, in the OT Elisha's servant Gehazi tried to get money for Namans healing after Elisha had refused but Gehazi was struck with leprosy.

Freely ye heave received, freely give. So why would he tell the other 5 to go buy if it wasn't sarcastic....?

Maybe the kind of oil THEY had runs out.....But ours never runs out. It's an eternal spring in us...

As we burn it it keeps coming and coming like the menorah that never ran out of oil...


I don't think l need a Dr. after all!
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The oil = The Word of God which continually feeds us and keeps our jar full.
Being prepared is to continually seek God through that word.
Those that remain just justified do just that. They put their Sunday time in, but stop right there. They don't take what they heard and prove it out through seeking it on their own. They just listen to the Word.
To build up something requires an action on our part. They have the same oil, but it runs low because they never take the time to fill it up..remember you have to have your own anointing given from God. It won't matter how close you are to that anointed person, when it gets dark, if you don't have the word, (oil) in you, you will miss the wedding banquet. Those without the oil are empty by their own choice. This is where desire comes in. You have to allow the Lord to fill you with that desire to seek out more. Hope that helps.....

I only have a minute but let me say that l believe as long as the flame is lit your supply is limitless. It's a deep well...

Keep the wick trimmed and you'll burn brightly. Clip off that dead head..the old branches...prune...and you'll shine and the oil won't run out.

Saw the Doctor at church and he agrees that the laying on hands as Maz has talked about is a special anointing for a special purpose for a special time.

We don't need the laying on of hands to receive the baptism of the Holy Spirit.

The fullness comes when we are saved...but as Pam has said, we must act on it. Come into agreement with God. But more later...

God Bless you Miki,
Yes Jesus is the Bread of LIFE...and he said when one is thirsty give them a drink, and when one is hungry give them Bread.
The Holy ghost dwells within in us...if we don't use we will think it's not there. It's like haveing chocolate at the bottom of the milk, you have to stir it up in order for the glass to be covered. He is the cup that runneth over...so we can't hold onto his blessings (what good would that be?) we must get out there and be a witness in Christ. What we receive we joyfulling want to share and bring others to Christ our LORD.
on my way, God bless you all

Miki, how is your kundalini?

[QUOTE]I became a Follower of Christ by asking God for His Spirit. It took many years of asking but the Lord finally gave me what I asked for. When His Spirit came He led me into all truth.[/QUOTE]

Praise God Elijah. I have asked Him for many years now and I know that I will receive His Spirit because He said "those who ask receive and those who seek find".


Charlie

[quote=charlie,Feb 7 2006, 09:25 PM]
[QUOTE]I became a Follower of Christ by asking God for His Spirit. It took many years of asking but the Lord finally gave me what I asked for. When His Spirit came He led me into all truth.[/QUOTE]

Praise God Elijah. I have asked Him for many years now and I know that I will receive His Spirit because He said "those who ask receive and those who seek find".


Charlie
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A person must love the Lord first, secondly the person must love and be servants to one another; Love thy neighbor as you love thyself. Then will the Lord send his Holy Spirit onto that person.

Love HB

[quote=Humble Bob,Feb 7 2006, 09:58 PM]
[quote=charlie,Feb 7 2006, 09:25 PM]
[QUOTE]I became a Follower of Christ by asking God for His Spirit. It took many years of asking but the Lord finally gave me what I asked for. When His Spirit came He led me into all truth.[/QUOTE]

Praise God Elijah. I have asked Him for many years now and I know that I will receive His Spirit because He said "those who ask receive and those who seek find".


Charlie
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[/quote]
A person must love the Lord first, secondly the person must love and be servants to one another; Love thy neighbor as you love thyself. Then will the Lord send his Holy Spirit onto that person.

Love HB
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The person must not only Love the Lord. But they must Love the Lord with all of their heart all of their mind and all of their might. Then and only then can they see straight enough to love their neighbor as their self. Because if the Lord said you must hate your life. Then wouldn't I hate my neighbors life too. Or do you think that may be Luke got this part wrong? and it is more what Matthew and Mark said leave them not hate them.

Luke 14
26 "If anyone comes to Me and does not hate his father and mother, wife and children, brothers and sisters, yes, and his own life also, he cannot be My disciple.

Matthew 19
29 And everyone who has left houses or brothers or sisters or father or mother or wife or children or lands, for My name's sake, shall receive a hundredfold, and inherit eternal life.

Mark 10
29 So Jesus answered and said, "Assuredly, I say to you, there is no one who has left house or brothers or sisters or father or mother or wife or children or lands, for My sake and the gospel's,

Charlie

Nobody has to to ask and ask and beg. But l don't want to get into all this stuff again. The same thing keeps going around and around.

Ask and it shall be given.
Period!

You are under delusion to think he won't give it when you ask the first time. Step out in faith folks. It's oil that won't run out. Use it. Believe...don't beg.

As soon as you ask again and then again you are confessing unbelief.

The complete jewish bible.
Mt 7
7 "Keep asking, and it will be given to you; keep seeking, and you will find; keep knocking, and the door will be opened to you.

Mt 7
11 So if you, even though you are bad, know how to give your children gifts that are good, how much more will your Father in heaven keep giving good things to those who keep asking him!

Lu 11
9 "Moreover, I myself say to you: keep asking, and it will be given to you; keep seeking, and you will find; keep knocking, and the door will be opened to you.

Lu 11
13 So if you, even though you are bad, know how to give your children gifts that are good, how much more will the Father keep giving the Ruach HaKodesh from heaven to those who keep asking him!"

Joh 16
24 Till now you haven't asked for anything in my name. Keep asking, and you will receive, so that your joy may be complete.

Luke 11
5 And he said unto them, Which of you shall have a friend, and shall go unto him at midnight, and say unto him, Friend, lend me three loaves;
6 For a friend of mine in his journey is come to me, and I have nothing to set before him?
7 And he from within shall answer and say, Trouble me not: the door is now shut, and my children are with me in bed; I cannot rise and give thee.
8 I say unto you, Though he will not rise and give him, because he is his friend, yet because of his importunity he will rise and give him as many as he needeth.


Charlie

That's not for salvation and the indwelling presence of God.

[quote=Miki,Feb 8 2006, 03:59 PM]
That's not for salvation and the indwelling presence of God.
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The Ruach HaKodesh is God's Holy Spirit. And you do remember the scripture that says in romans 8 If anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ They are not His?


Charlie

the be born again you ahve to be born of BOTH water and the spirit.

John Baptised wiht the wters of repentance, the son of Man came so you would be baptised with fire... (the spirit)

Chrsit told Nicodemus you must be baptised by BOTH water (baptism in water) and the spirit (God's sealing of the water baptism by the sending of his spirit in you)

You are not saved until this seal occurs... Chrsit says both must occur as part of this one baptism ,(has two parts)

T he early church did baptise children but children are under the covering of their parents, the household... LAter, they underwent a bar mitzvah type initiaation whiuch has been preserved by us today by the sacrament of confirmation..... it is the coming of age and pesonal responsibility, HEre, you renew ythe baptisimal rites your parents took for you at birth and make a personal declaration....

I became born again after I realized I HAD NO PEACE!

I became born again after I started surfing the Internet; I saw so many bad sites, so much hatred and horror, and sin; I thought God was no longer in control, I thought God had forsaken us!

How could he ever FREE us from such a thing?

I had no peace, no peace at all. It became from BAD TO WORSE. I felt helpless.

I believed Jesus was the son of God, but I had no revelation. I prayed for PEACE, but still had NO PEACE.

Then one day, I turned on TBN (Trinity Broadcasting) and they were just SAYING THE SINNER'S PRAYER!!! I prayed it!

There is no particular prayer to be born again; However one must admit and BELIEVE:

- that one is a sinner
- That Jesus IS the son of God, and that he died on the cross FOR ALL OUR SINS, past, present and future
- that one must ask him to forgive us and help us not to sin again
- ask him to come in our hearts

this is what I did. I told myself, "What the heck"? I've tried all kinds of prayers, NOT ONE worked, maybe this one will work. I was at the end.

Then I felt a WEIGHT taken off me, and the presence whom I knew was Jesus. (I know now that it its the Holy Spirit). I had felt it briefly (exactly 3 DAYS AND 3 NIGHTS) 20 years earlier as I prayed to Jesus asking for his help. But then I was not born again YET.

Then all of a sudden, I KNEW that:

- God IS STILL in control
- that the Bible is his word, and is true
- that I should not worry about ghosts and aliens (I did, because I've always asked myself many questions, I'm just the type, always wanting to know the "WHY" of things... BECAUSE GOD HAD IT ALL IN CONTROL!

- that I was saved
- that I had PEACE! *(GLORY!)
- that I had FELLOWSHIP with the Lord

From then on, I felt GUIDED, empowered, I felt God's presence constantly through what I found out was the Holy Spirit! I realized WHY Jesus got crucified!!!

I NO LONGER FEARED!

Since that time, I just think of God ALL THE TIME. I try to shake it off, to stay grounded, but I still think of him. So I just accepted this as A NEW WAY OF THINKING.

Hey, we are going to spend ETERNITY with him, so why not get started right a way?

Jesus transforms us into an ideal thinker, to make us ready to live in AN IDEAL SOCIETY, far from sin and from unbelief; something MAN COULD NEVER DO, no matter how much they talk about it; man had 6,000 YEARS to create a perfect society, and it's still not taken place and WILL NEVER take place.

Period.
I look forward to go to Heaven: no aging there, NO FEAR, no death, no tears. You can be ALL THUMBS and still be able to work with nails without hurting yourself!

That's Heaven. Jesus is more than religion. He is THE way of thinking; with LOVE only!

Morning has broken, like the first morning
Blackbird has spoken, like the first bird
Praise for the singing, praise for the morning
Praise for the springing fresh from the world

Sweet the rain's new fall, sunlit from heaven
Like the first dewfall, on the first grass
Praise for the sweetness of the wet garden
Sprung in completeness where his feet pass

Mine is the sunlight, mine is the morning
Born of the one light, Eden saw play
Praise with elation, praise every morning
God's recreation of the new day

always a favorite...

and

when i found this song in a hymnal, a very old hymnal, i rejoiced!


signet

One question that I have always had is: When are we saved? My experience has been when I first believed that Jesus died for me I was born again but it was not until I began to step out in faith that I began to experience God moving in my live.

In Deut. 30 it says that God sets before us life and dead and we should choose life. It also talks about how we are not to find God by going up to heaven to bring Him down to us etc. If you remember these Scriptures God is speaking about unbelief and they are the same scriptures that Paul refers to when he was talking about unbelief. So my question is, if God is saying that it is a choice between life and death, are we not saved if we are in unbelief? Anyone understand this what this means?

One final thought that I forgot to mention, what about the 10 virgins? 5 were filled with the Holy Spirit and 5 were not. The door is shut to them. Are they saved?

Spiritual Miracles are far greater than physical miracles.

making the lame to walk.......is a physical miracle.

Getting born-again is a spiritual miracle.

Getting born-again = the Baptism of the Holy Spirit.
Not all Saints have astounding Gifts of the Spirit (1 Cor 12). such as WORKING MIRACLES, SIGNS, WONDERS. TONGUES, etc
ALL good Saints strive for the BETTER WAY (1 Cor 13).........Extreme Love, Intense Love, Agape Love.

We are saved when we first believe God (the Bible, the Gospel, etc).
Some people have a greater understanding of the Bible than others.......only God knows which are saved.

Some have wandered from the Faith (1 Timothy 6;10).........the Bible is true.
As per OSAS, no-one has ever "wandered from the Faith"...........OSAS is wrong.

God is pulling us up to His Level........(Heavenly, Spiritual)
We don't pull Him down to our level.....(earthly, fleshly)

the 10 virgins are NT Saints.
5 were foolish, and failed to continually "Be filled with the Spirit".
Oil = Spirit of God (Spirit of Jesus)
all 10 virgins were born-again (baptized in the Spirit), but 5 failed to continually "Be filled with the Spirit".
the 5 foolish virgins lost their salvation , when they ran out of the Holy Spirit (oil).
In the OT, most "anointing" was done with physical olive oil.
In the NT, "anointing" is done (primarily) with the Holy Spirit.


the Bible NEVER commands us to "Be baptized with the Spirit.....this baptism happens automatically at conversion (salvation).
the Bible DOES command us to "Be filled with the Spirit".

How do we "be filled with the Spirit"?
the Word (Bible) is Spirit.
God is Spirit.
We abide in Christ, and in the Word, and in obedience to the Word.

Jesus recieved His Baptism of the Holy Spirit at the SAME time as the water Baptism
Matthew 3;14-17

Jhn 1:33 And I knew him not: but he that sent me to baptize with water, the same said unto me, Upon whom thou shalt see the Spirit descending, and remaining on him, the same is he which baptizeth with the Holy Ghost.

Act 2:4 And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.

Eph 1:13 In whom ye also [trusted], after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, 14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.

Using the word, HOLY GHOST....

Luk 1:15 For he shall be great in the sight of the Lord, and shall drink neither wine nor strong drink; and he shall be filled with the Holy Ghost, even from his mother's womb.


Luk 1:41 And it came to pass, that, when Elisabeth heard the salutation of Mary, the babe leaped in her womb; and Elisabeth was filled with the Holy Ghost: 42 And she spake out with a loud voice, and said, Blessed [art] thou among women, and blessed [is] the fruit of thy womb.


Luk 1:67 And his father Zacharias was filled with the Holy Ghost, and prophesied, saying,



Act 2:4 And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.


Act 4:8 Then Peter, filled with the Holy Ghost, said unto them, Ye rulers of the people, and elders of Israel, 9 If we this day be examined of the good deed done to the impotent man, by what means he is made whole; 10 Be it known unto you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom ye crucified, whom God raised from the dead, [even] by him doth this man stand here before you whole.


Act 4:31 And when they had prayed, the place was shaken where they were assembled together; and they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and they spake the word of God with boldness.

Act 9:17 And Ananias went his way, and entered into the house; and putting his hands on him said, Brother Saul, the Lord, [even] Jesus, that appeared unto thee in the way as thou camest, hath sent me, that thou mightest receive thy sight, and be filled with the Holy Ghost.

Act 13:9 Then Saul, (who also [is called] Paul,) filled with the Holy Ghost, set his eyes on him, 10 And said, O full of all subtilty and all mischief, [thou] child of the devil, [thou] enemy of all righteousness, wilt thou not cease to pervert the right ways of the Lord?

Act 13:52 And the disciples were filled with joy, and with the Holy Ghost.

[quote name='dennis mann' date='Mar 20 2007, 02:08 AM' post='105994']
[quote name='labman24' post='105984' date='Mar 19 2007, 10:18 PM']


the Bible NEVER commands us to "Be baptized with the Spirit.....this baptism happens automatically at conversion (salvation).
the Bible DOES command us to "Be filled with the Spirit".

[/quote]

Dennis you are not agreeing with the Bible here. Here, look in Acts and you will see that the baptism of the Holy Spirit came quite a while AFTER these people were saved:
[quote]Acts 8:
14Now when the apostles which were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent unto them Peter and John:

15Who, when they were come down, prayed for them, that they might receive the Holy Ghost:

16(For as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.) 17Then laid they their hands on them, and they received the Holy Ghost. [/quote]

These people were saved, but they did not receive the Holy Spirit, just by getting saved, they had to be prayed for.

[quote]
Acts 19
1And it came to pass, that, while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul having passed through the upper coasts came to Ephesus: and finding certain disciples,

2He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost. 3And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism.

4Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.

5When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.

6And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied. [/quote]

Same with these 12 people, they were saved, but Paul had to pray for them for the baptism in the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit manifest Himself in us, by the speaking in tongues and prophecies.

We must not panic if we have not been baptised yet, just pray and receive it by faith. Some get it immediately (God gives the Spirit immediately to those who ask) but sometimes our lack of faith prevents the Holy Spirit to speak through us in tongues. All those ugly little doctrines that unbelieving pastors and ministers of the Gospel, taught the church, is sometimes keeping God's people out of blessing.

Unbelief is dangerous.
C

That is the way to do it Elijah.
In this day of evil doctrines and people being brought under the power of those who preach false doctrines, many are led astray.
“Asking God” is the provision That Christ brought for this day.
Continuing to ask is a sign that you know the difference between the spirit of man pretending and the Spirit of God.
Those who suppose that the spirit of man, with a little of mans knowledge about Christ mixed in, is the Spirit of God, have fallen to the Lies of their captors. But now it is time to come out from among them and be separate and live.


2 Peter 2
19 While they promise them liberty, they themselves are slaves of corruption; for by whom a person is overcome, by him also he is brought into bondage.

Hi,

On 24th December 2006 I responded to an altar call and accepted Jesus as my Lord and Saviour. As yet I have not been baptised. I have 2 questions.

1) How does one know when one is ready for water baptism?

2) About Baptism in the Holy Spirit. I've been praying for the Baptism of the Holy Spirit, but I'm wondering now whether one must be baptised in water first?

Thank you

jer2911

Keep asking God in private for His Spirit jer2911. But get baptized in water in the name of the Lord as soon as you can. You will know when the Lord gives you His Spirit. There is no standard jer2911. Some received His Spirit first and then were baptized and others were baptized and then received His Spirit and some received His Spirit while being baptized.

To the tune of “I've got a home in that rock”.


I repent now of my sin Lord, let it be.
Please forgive me of my sin Lord, let it be.
Fill me with Your Spirit now Lead me on and show me How.
Fill me with Your Holy Spirit, Let it be.

Fill me with Your Holy Spirit, let it be.
Replace the evil thats within me, let it be.
Fill me with your Spirit now Lead me on and show me How.
Let me shine Your light for others, let it be.

Let me shine Your light for others, let it be.
Save my sisters and my brothers, let it be.
Fill me with your Spirit now Lead me on and show me How.
Display the power of Your Spirit, They'll believe.

Display the power of Your Spirit Lord through me.
Display the power of Your Spirit, They'll believe.
Fill me with your Spirit now Lead me on and show me How.
I repent now of my sin Lord, let it be.

I repent now of my sin Lord, let it be.
Please forgive me of my sin Lord, let it be.
Fill me with Your Spirit now Lead me on and show me How.
Fill me with Your Holy Spirit, Let it be.

you're lucky

There is nothing such has called lucky or luck.


Read the whole thread and understand.