just go to this website ok
there is a news article here about hell might be a lil late but it gives info
hell

just click on the wor hell dont mind the glicks im new to this

Bogov,
That is really some site! I have always believed in Hell just as much as Heaven!
God bless you and keep you!!
justaservant

In the very beginning before the angels were created God was everywhere and anywhere; there was not place where God was not. But when the rebellion broke out in heaven God had to make a place where he would not be found. He has prepared that place and it is a place of eternal damnation, where God is not. Forget about the fear of flames and darkness. I tremble to think to be in a place where God is not.

Interesting web site but I think the center of the earth being hell is figurative. The earth is not eternal but the flames of the lake of burning fire are forever. Of course the saved looks forward to his eternal grace

Do you know how easy it would be for the devil to get inside your head and trick you with visions of Heaven or Hell when your body is in the weakest state it could ever be-DYING? I don't believe in a conscious lake of fire. It's simply nothingness, eternal destruction. A figure of speech.

Of course I could be wrong! But I'm a good, faithful person, by no means perfect, but not deserving of Hell, so I have no reason to fear. Like you said, I'm looking foreward to His eternal grace.

CH, If you don't believe that Jesus' teachings on hell are literal, then why would you believe in his grace? Is it because it sounds good to you? If you can reject some of what the bible says, why believe any of it? If one part isn't true, then it isn't God's word. So why bother?

You subscribe to the Jehovah's Witness doctrine of the destruction of the soul. That doctrine of demons is comforting enough to be a fear of The Lord repellant.

Why do you think that your being a good person merits you grace or escape from hell? That too is a doctrine of devils. The muslims believe that if they're good enough hell won't be your portion. Hollywood presents all of these kinds of doctrines in movies, etc. regularly.

The Bible is true. Jesus is truth. Your surmisings are pretensions that exalt themselves against the knowledge of God. I believe that you are a good person. By your previous posts I have believed that you are saved. But you are decieved in your beliefs. It doesn't matter what you or I think, only what God has revealed in his word. If we agree then we're right. If we don't like it and disagree, then we're wrong. And that means that we elevate ourselves above God. We have then overruled God and his word in favor of what makes sense to us.

It seems that you have done this. Is that somewhere that you want to go? Or do you think that since you don't believe that way, that you will be exempt? I sincerely hope that you'll stop believing the vain philosophies of men, and realize that God's word is true. If this is not the case, reread your own post and realize that what you wrote resulted in this response. I would like you to answer this.

I'm not trying to be combative, but uncontested this thread could lead someone astray, and reinforce the false doctrines that a reader may be considering.

David

Quite frankly, I don't know if there's a literal eternal place of conscious torment, but I do think it is possible that there is. If so, God is most likely waiting for Judgement Day to send people there, so that everyone will live in either torment or paradise for all eternity. But the wages of sin are death according to the Bible, so taken as a whole the lake of fire is probably a real place, just not a conscious one.

And how do we know that the word "Hell" isn't a mistranslation? "The grave" or "the abyss" is what it should read. There is death, the grave, and the lake of fire (the second death). Revelation says that death and Hell will be thrown into the lake of fire, but does that really make sense if the lake of fire IS Hell? It's actually death and the grave will be thrown into the lake of fire and die the second death. That makes sense. Mistranslations are possible, we as humans are imperfect.

I do fear the Lord, I know His power. Just because I'm not absolutely believing in a conscious Hell doesn't mean I don't fear Him. He could torment me then make me die a horrible, slow death, so why wouldn't I fear Him? I'm not one of those happy feel-good Christians, I know how horrific God's wrath can be. The hurricanes, 9/11, comets, pestillence, etc., etc., etc...

And, please, never compare me to a JW again, because they're very wrong on many issues, their version of the Bible is corrupt, and their higher levels are actually Illuminati. It's offensive to me.

What did Jesus say about "Hell"? I've read the Gospels (except for Matthew), but I don't recall any frank discussions of people burning in torment and misery for all eternity. He talked about forgiveness, love, and salvation.

I will get back to you on Jesus' comments about Hades and Gehena(sp?) when I have time. I didn't compare you to Jehovah's Witnesses, and agree with your statements concerning them, except that I don't know about an illuminati connection. But the doctrine of no hell and destruction of the soul, which you supported in your original post, are official JW doctrine. If you received offense, know that I didn't send one. I will always combat false teachings and doctrines when I run across them on this forum, with the exception of some debatable doctrines. That is part of what makes this a forum. I'm not out to confront every error, but this false doctrine can have deadly consequences in the souls of them who might be convinced by the seemingly sound reasoning that they read here. It worked on Eve, it can happen to countless others. I suggest that you get a red letter edition of the bible and read all that Jesus had to say on the subject.

Now may God richly bless you. David

I know that there are a lot of discussions about just what Hell, the grave, and death is all about. But add to your consideration the words of Jesus in Mark 9:47-48, "If your eye causes you to stumble, throw it out; it is better for you to enter the kingdom of God with one eye, than, having two eyes to be cast into hell, where their worm does not die, and the fire is not quenched. Also consider Matthew 3:12: "His winnowing fork is in His hand and he will thoroughly clear His threshing floor; and he will gather His wheat into the barn, but He will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire."
Another to add to your consideration is in Luke 16:19-24 "Now their was a rich man, and he habitually dressed in purple and fine linen, joyously living in splendor every day. And a poor man named Laarus was laid at his gate, covered with sores, and longing to be fed with the crumbs. which were falling from the rich man's table; besides even the dogs were coming and licking his sores. Now the poor man died and was carried away by the angels to Abraham's bosom; and the rich man also died and was buried. In Hades he lifted up his eyes, being in torment, and saw Abraham far away and Lazarus in his bosom. And he cried out and said, 'Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus so that he may dip the tip of his finger in water and cool off my tongure, for I am in agony in this flame."
Now I believe that Hades and Hell are one and the same. They are an actual place made for the holding of the unsaved dead between death and the judgement.
It also would appear that fire is in Hell or Hades whichever you want to call it. You are correct in saying that following the final white throne judgement, death, Hell (Hades), all the unsaved that they contain and all the unsaved that stand before the Great White Throne judgement will be cast into the lake of fire named the second death. Anyone who rejects Jesus Christ as the only available Savior will find their final abode in the lake of fire.
I ask to consider these passages of Scripture which I have present from the New American Standard Bible. I know that if you come to the Scripture, honestly seeking the truth you will find it.
justaservant

• Here is a way to make sure you are going to avoid hell. (Copied from the link Bogoy provided)
•
• Realize you are a sinner.
"As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:" Romans 3:10

"... for there is no difference. For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;" Romans 3:23
• Realize you CAN NOT save yourself.
"But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; ..." Isaiah 64:6

"Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, ..." Titus 3:5
• Realize that Jesus Christ died on the cross to pay for your sins.
"Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, ..." 1 Peter 2:24

"... Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood," Revelation 1:5
• Simply by faith receive Jesus Christ as your personal Saviour.
"But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:" John 1:12

" ...Sirs, what must I do to be saved? And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house."" Acts 16:30,31

"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." John 3:16

In the Future:

The Saint enjoys an Astounding Paradise with the One who is Delightful to the Uttermost.

The sinner is tormented in an astonishing hell. Un-imaginable, to our minds.

Why?

The Saint is getting a God-sized Paradise.

The sinner is getting a God-sized punishment/Judgement for his sins.

Why?

The Church/Bride-of-Christ is to be married to God (or Son-of-God).
Astonishing!!!!!

Why?

God TESTED Abraham's Faith. It was a God-sized TEST.
God is TESTING our Faith, with a God-sized-TEST.

Do we think it's a **little** thing , when we turn around, repent of our sins, and we swim "upstream", against the current?
We help the poor, while most people are oppressing and robbing the poor.
We send food to the hungry, while most people are ignoring the needy.
We are zealous to clothe the naked, while most people are spending their money on Foot-ball games.

My point is:
If we do this Christianity thing right, God wants to hug us.
If we do it wrong, God is Right to Punish us. With a God-sized punishment.

dennis manning

I see what y'all are saying. I think now that there is a literal place of torment. It makes sense to me. Reward the righteous, punish the wicked. I somehow missed all of the scripture about what Jesus said about hell. Maybe I just misunderstood it or twisted it to my beliefs...oh well, I won't do that any more! I know I can't save myself, only God can. I just have to do my best. I am a sinner, I know so, I don't deny it, I've admitted it to God. I've taken those steps to avoid hell.

I have a red-letter KJV version.

God Bless You! May you withstand the Refiner's Fire as to pass the test.

Some people just don't want to believe in Hell for one reason or another, whether they are afraid or something else I don't know. I didn't believe because my grandmother's a JW and that's what I learned. I always had some nagging suspicion in the back of my mind that it was a literal place though, because the scripture seems to say so clearly, but I didn't want to believe that God would punish someone forever, I just thought it impossible...but I don't now.

But I think He's withholding his placement of people until the end at Judgement Day so that everyone either suffers or is happy for the same amount of time for forever. He says to Daniel that all those who sleep in the dust of the earth shall awaken to either eternal life or eternal shame and contempt.

I have heard that as well where you say: He says to Daneil that all those who sleep in the dust of the earth shall awaken to either eteranl life of eteranl shame and contempt. But do you understand what happens when we die? Paul says to be absent from the body (death) is to be present with the Lord. You are in Heaven if you are a born again believer.
Look at the parable of the Shrewd Manager: In Luke 16 it was also posted on the link boboy provided. Luke 16:22-28. When the beggar died the angels carred him to Abrahm's side. The rich man died and was buried. In hell where he was in torment.
Continue to read the verses and you will see that it is not a wait for the day of Judgement to see where you go. When you die you will go to heaven or hell.

But it also says in the Bible that the dead know nothing and are unconscious...

This statement has been removed

This scripture is speaking of the body. The body is not aware of anything in the grave. Jesus told the repentant thief on the cross, TODAY you will be with me in paradise. It is true that when you die you go to heaven or hell. Hell is Hades (Greek) and Sheol (Hebrew) It is a holding place, and a place of torment that will be used by the unredeemed dead until after the great white throne of judgement. It used to contain the righteous also, in paradise or Abraham's bosom. But Jesus emptied paradise when he took the righteous dead to heaven. Before his blood covered them, they couldn't enter God's presence. Now hell has enlarged its gates, and is receiving a tragic influx of unredeemed souls.

The JW's also don't believe that Jesus is God and equal to the Father, with whom He is one. They believe that Jesus is a lesser god, a created being like the angels. They don't believe that he is the pre-existant Word of God the Father. That either makes Jesus a liar or as they contend, the scriptures have been perverted, as if God isn't capable of keeping his word intact for us. The errors are in translation., but the scriptures are faithful and true, and even the modern true unmolested translations all state unequivocally that Jesus and the Father are one.

I don't know whether or not these beliefs of the JW's contribute to your confusion. Because you desire the Truth the Truth will reveal himself to you!

This statement has been removed

Ecclesiastes 9

4For to him that is joined to all the living there is hope: for a living dog is better than a dead lion.

5For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.

6Also their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished; neither have they any more a portion for ever in any thing that is done under the sun.




Um.... this seems to be talking about more than just the body....

... I sure wish I knew Greek right about now... I'd like to know how the earlier texts read on this one but I've concluded that their memory or mind is "forgotten" or ceases to be while they sleep.


My understanding is that when we die (the first death) we are asleep. Not until Jesus comes back will anyone (save those already translated) be with him in paradise:

1 Thessalonians 4 (King James Version)

13But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.

14For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.

15For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.

16For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

17Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.


So........ in summation.... the sleeping (dead) righteous will arise from their graves right after the Lord returns with a shout and the trump of God sounds.

Seems clear to me... as I understand it this was the teaching of the early christian church. The popular belief about the "soul" going to heaven or hell after death was a teaching popularized through the Catholic church to raise money.

Don't take my word for it... look it up for yourself.


On a side note... regarding Jesus saying to the thief on the cross :

Luke 23:43 (King James Version)
And Jesus said unto him Verily I say unto thee Today thou shalt be with me in paradise.

(Punctuation removed by me)


In the original text their were no punctuation marks. These were added by men!

.... it is common to place a comma like so: "....I say unto thee, today thou shalt be with me...".

But what if it were: "..... I say unto thee today, thou shalt be with me...."

I believe the later is correct since it is cohesive with other biblical texts regarding death.

If you have taken these steps and meant it, you are saved and a new creation. Your spirit was reborn. God says that these things are written so you can KNOW this. Satan will try and tell you otherwise, but he is a lier.
Get yourself baptised
Now, the next step is, ask Him to fill you with His Spirit.

Then the journey begins. "Be ye changed by the renewing of your mind" This is dayly.All the old sinful habits must go, and God will help you live a righteous life if you spend time with Him and allow Him to tell you what must change.

Cornelius

This makes more sense for the body. Your soul has no memory loss, but brain cells health determines memory. And just how would you lose your reward by dying? Paul said that neither death nor life, etc. can separate us from the love of God. we are promised eternal rewards for faithfulness. Could there be any greater reward than God's love. Also, Solomon wrote Ecclesiastes from a cynical humanist perspective. You've got to be careful about establishing or proving doctrine with such scripture. Read the context of the book and you'll see. Their memory being forgotten means just that, their own memory. A dead body has no memory. the living remember them, and your soul never forgets, unless God erases your memory of an event(s).


Do you suppose that your love has perished(for God, people, etc.) Without a body you have no portion here on this earth(under the sun).


Um.... this seems to be talking about more than just the body....



As you stated, this is YOUR understanding. I believe that it is also Jehovah's Witness doctrine, but am unsure about that. Paul stated that to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord. Also, Paradise was emptied when Jesus ascended into heaven. Jesus will not be with anyone in Paradise when he comes back, he will come back to earth. The muslims believe in paradise with allah.

1 Thessalonians 4 (King James Version)

QUOTE

13But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.

14For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.

15For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.

16For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

17Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

This is speaking of the ressurection of the righteous dead, and those who are alive and remain shall be changed - to a glorified body, same as the dead who precede the living.

QUOTE

So........ in summation.... the sleeping (dead) righteous will arise from their graves right after the Lord returns with a shout and the trump of God sounds.

This is true, but you assume this refers not to the body, which is an assumption.

QUOTE

Seems clear to me... as I understand it this was the teaching of the early christian church. The popular belief about the "soul" going to heaven or hell after death was a teaching popularized through the Catholic church to raise money.

Don't take my word for it... look it up for yourself.

Jesus himself said that Lazarus and the rich man were both in Hades (Greek for abode of the dead, hell is the English name). He used a distinct proper name which is inconsistent with all of his parables, therefore the argument of that being a parable doesn't wash. And what about the martyrs under God's throne asking for their blood to be avenged? They're in heaven. You have to declare by your assumptions that they are all from the old testament. But they died for their testimony/faith in Jesus. Saints weren't persecuted for faith in Jesus until after his ressurection. Why doesn't their soul sleep? Also, his friend Lazarus was dead, as was the girl that he raised from the dead, and he declared that they both were sleeping. Now we all know that they were dead. The scriptures say so. So Jesus equated death with sleep. What was dead, their souls or their bodies?

QUOTE

On a side note... regarding Jesus saying to the thief on the cross :

Luke 23:43 (King James Version)
And Jesus said unto him Verily I say unto thee Today thou shalt be with me in paradise.

(Punctuation removed by me)


In the original text their were no punctuation marks. These were added by men!

.... it is common to place a comma like so: "....I say unto thee, today thou shalt be with me...".

But what if it were: "..... I say unto thee today,  thou shalt be with me...."  

I believe  the later is correct since it is cohesive with other biblical texts regarding death. 
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Why would Jesus say"I say to you today"? Everything you say, you say today. Think about it. Is he sayng " I didn't say this to you yesterday, or tomorrow"? That argument doesn't make sense upon closer scrutiny.

The whole argument for the doctrine of soul sleep is interesting, but inconsistent with scripture. It is easy to craft an argument that is convincing, using select scriptures, and still be wrong. We must realize that some people formulate their theology by what they read on this and other forums. To propose an unorthodox idea and back it in such a way is dangerous. The scripture states that teachers will be held to a stricter judgement. We must not cause others to stumble.

This is a forum for discussion, so it is fine to chew the cud. Just be careful not to cross a line. Also, there are probably infiltrators that inject their doctrines from cults or sent by satan to plant doctrines of demons and cause division. It may not be so easy to spot them, as Pamela has alluded to.


Also, on a previous post, crazyhashi said that his mother is Jehovah's Witness. That explaines his doctrinal beliefs, which if he believes, he must find a way to work scripturally. The arguments that he proposes are standard JW arguments, and he obviously has them down pat. I question whether he is coming out or holding on. I also question whether he is trying to indoctrinate or simply wanting to hash out the doctrines. I hope it is the latter. That is welcome. Covert indoctrination is not welcome. Most people won't reason with well rehearsed Jehovah's Witnesses, but will close their door on them. But it is easier for them to do their work anomyously. Don't drop your guard on this forum.

David

That's funny David...I haven't been watching that closely but you're right.

[quote=chrio39,Jan 4 2006, 02:00 AM]
[quote=lov4all,Jan 1 2006, 11:13 PM]

Also, on a previous post, crazyhashi said that his mother is Jehovah's Witness. That explaines his doctrinal beliefs, which if he believes, he must find a way to work scripturally. The arguments that he proposes are standard JW arguments, and he obviously has them down pat. I question whether he is coming out or holding on. I also question whether he is trying to indoctrinate or simply wanting to hash out the doctrines. I hope it is the latter. That is welcome. Covert indoctrination is not welcome. Most people won't reason with well rehearsed Jehovah's Witnesses, but will close their door on them. But it is easier for them to do their work anomyously. Don't drop your guard on this forum.

David
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[/quote]


It's actually my grandmother that's a JW, but I'm not. I never was one to begin with. I've actually been trying to get her OUT of that sect because I know its doctrines are wrong. Jesus is God. The Trinity is the truth. He died on a cross. And there is a literal hell. I don't agree with their teachings, as you can see. I rather dislike the JW as a sect, they have a tendency to "spit on" gifts of the Spirit. I've read the sect's books, they twist things and get things wrong and sometimes they're just plain rude. Like the books say that they're the only true religion, so if other Christians are speaking in tongues it must be by Satan's power!

But, honestly, it truly is offensive to me that you would assume that I could be some covert JW spy trying to indoctrinate you all. It's aggrivating. I've said in other posts that I don't like the JW sect, maybe you just missed them, or you saw them and assumed that I'm a liar. Which I'm not. I'm just trying to figure a few things out because I'm not sure if I'm right or not about them. As you can see, I've already changed my mind on the issue of a literal hell.

[QUOTE]

If you have taken these steps and meant it, you are saved and a new creation. Your spirit was reborn. God says that these things are written so you can KNOW this. Satan will try and tell you otherwise, but he is a lier.
Get yourself baptised
Now, the next step is, ask Him to fill you with His Spirit.

Then the journey begins. "Be ye changed by the renewing of your mind" This is dayly.All the old sinful habits must go, and God will help you live a righteous life if you spend time with Him and allow Him to tell you what must change.

Cornelius

[/QUOTE]

I have taken the steps and meant it. I'm pretty much a new person for it.
I'd get baptised, but my mother won't let me. She's pretty anti-religious. She believes God and Christ exist, and a bit of the Bible's history, but that's pretty much where it ends. I also have reason to believe that I have His Spirit within me already, and I have been making a daily effort to avoid anything bad. I have a hard time finding anything to do because I avoid almost everything a teenager would normally watch, listen to, or do! I'm pretty good compared to most people, I abide by His laws and am nice and respectful to people most of the time (I do slip up), and so faithful that you could call me "cuckoo for Jesus", so there's not much of a problem there. I have my problems though, I'm in no way, shape, or form perfect! Typical teenage problems, girls , etc...

very well put!

not many people know about Abraham's bosom and Jesus emptying it out. AND not many know about the "temporary covering" of sins before Jesus died on the cross.

Maybe many here know but many of my friends don't.
I try to explain it but it all comes in time.

You're right, not many know. But it is truth we seek. Pilate asked what is truth, and people are still asking the same question. We have the truth and we have been made free!

[quote=crazyhayashi,Jan 4 2006, 10:29 AM]
[quote=chrio39,Jan 4 2006, 02:00 AM]
[quote=lov4all,Jan 1 2006, 11:13 PM]

Also, on a previous post, crazyhashi said that his mother is Jehovah's Witness. That explaines his doctrinal beliefs, which if he believes, he must find a way to work scripturally. The arguments that he proposes are standard JW arguments, and he obviously has them down pat. I question whether he is coming out or holding on. I also question whether he is trying to indoctrinate or simply wanting to hash out the doctrines. I hope it is the latter. That is welcome. Covert indoctrination is not welcome. Most people won't reason with well rehearsed Jehovah's Witnesses, but will close their door on them. But it is easier for them to do their work anomyously. Don't drop your guard on this forum.

David
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[/quote]


It's actually my grandmother that's a JW, but I'm not. I never was one to begin with. I've actually been trying to get her OUT of that sect because I know its doctrines are wrong. Jesus is God. The Trinity is the truth. He died on a cross. And there is a literal hell. I don't agree with their teachings, as you can see. I rather dislike the JW as a sect, they have a tendency to "spit on" gifts of the Spirit. I've read the sect's books, they twist things and get things wrong and sometimes they're just plain rude. Like the books say that they're the only true religion, so if other Christians are speaking in tongues it must be by Satan's power!

But, honestly, it truly is offensive to me that you would assume that I could be some covert JW spy trying to indoctrinate you all. It's aggrivating. I've said in other posts that I don't like the JW sect, maybe you just missed them, or you saw them and assumed that I'm a liar. Which I'm not. I'm just trying to figure a few things out because I'm not sure if I'm right or not about them. As you can see, I've already changed my mind on the issue of a literal hell.

[QUOTE]

If you have taken these steps and meant it, you are saved and a new creation. Your spirit was reborn. God says that these things are written so you can KNOW this. Satan will try and tell you otherwise, but he is a lier.
Get yourself baptised
Now, the next step is, ask Him to fill you with His Spirit.

Then the journey begins. "Be ye changed by the renewing of your mind" This is dayly.All the old sinful habits must go, and God will help you live a righteous life if you spend time with Him and allow Him to tell you what must change.

Cornelius

[/QUOTE]

I have taken the steps and meant it. I'm pretty much a new person for it.
I'd get baptised, but my mother won't let me. She's pretty anti-religious. She believes God and Christ exist, and a bit of the Bible's history, but that's pretty much where it ends. I also have reason to believe that I have His Spirit within me already, and I have been making a daily effort to avoid anything bad. I have a hard time finding anything to do because I avoid almost everything a teenager would normally watch, listen to, or do! I'm pretty good compared to most people, I abide by His laws and am nice and respectful to people most of the time (I do slip up), and so faithful that you could call me "cuckoo for Jesus", so there's not much of a problem there. I have my problems though, I'm in no way, shape, or form perfect! Typical teenage problems, girls , etc...
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[/quote]

Hey CH,

It is good to hear that you repudiate the JW doctrines, and I'm glad to read your testimony. You need to know that your thoughtful and well reasoned posts make you sound like you know what you're saying and are deliberate. So when you argue cultic doctrines, we can't see or read you, and must be on our guard. Deceivers with impure motives infest the internet for various ungodly reasons. We have an obligation to address these matters, and you should not take offense, for it is a trap of satan. I know that I'm straightforward, but a watchman must be. There is too much at stake. You seem to be intelligent and articulate, so I thought that you were older. You'll learn a lot fast if you stick around.

You being a teen does make a difference, and you're searching for the truth for a reason. Maybe God will use you to deliver your G-mother from the JW's.

Thank you for the link. the tape was disturbing.
I thank God I am saved.
And I don't want my friends to go to Hell.

I listened to the tape too. I don't like the sound of it. It made my neck all stiff and tense. Hell sounds crappy.

Crazyhayashi, your ideas are good. Or maybe they are God's ideas and he has placed them in among your thoughts.

You may or may not want to associate with me, judging by many posts here. But I just want to say that you do not have to have a conclusive idea on what hell is to gain eternal life. It is not required of us. Some how I know, though, that suicide will not end the pain many of us suffer in this life. How this might reflect on the existence of hell I can't say for sure.

Anyway, I know in my heart that your ideas are good.

sojourner