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voice

A Nation of Christians Is Not a Christian Nation





JOHN McCAIN was not on the campus of Jerry Falwell's Liberty University last year for very long — the senator, who once referred to Mr. Falwell and Pat Robertson as "agents of intolerance," was there to receive an honorary degree — but he seems to have picked up some theology along with his academic hood. In an interview with Beliefnet.com last weekend, Mr. McCain repeated what is an article of faith among many American evangelicals: "the Constitution established the United States of America as a Christian nation."

According to Scripture, however, believers are to be wary of all mortal powers.

Their home is the kingdom of God, which transcends all earthly things, not any particular nation-state.

The Psalmist
advises believers to "put not your trust in princes."

The author of Job
says that the Lord "shows no partiality to princes nor regards the rich above the poor, for they are all the work of his hands."

Before Pilate, Jesus says, "My kingdom is not of this world." And if, as Paul writes in Galatians, "there is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free man, there is neither male nor female: for you are all one in Christ Jesus," then it is difficult to see how there could be a distinction in God's eyes between, say, an American and an Australian.

In fact, there is no distinction if you believe Peter's words in the Acts of the Apostles: "I most certainly believe now that God is not one to show partiality, but in every nation the man who fears him and does what is right is welcome to him."

The kingdom Jesus preached was radical. Not only are nations irrelevant, but families are, too: he instructs those who would be his disciples to give up all they have and all those they know to follow him.


The only acknowledgment of God in the original Constitution is a utilitarian one: the document is dated "in the year of our Lord 1787."

Even the religion clause of the First Amendment is framed dryly and without reference to any particular faith.

The Connecticut ratifying convention debated rewriting the preamble to take note of God's authority, but the effort failed.

A pseudonymous opponent of the Connecticut proposal had some fun with the notion of a deity who would, in a sense, be checking the index for his name: "A low mind may imagine that God, like a foolish old man, will think himself slighted and dishonored if he is not complimented with a seat or a prologue of recognition in the Constitution."

Instead, the framers, the opponent wrote in The American Mercury, "come to us in the plain language of common sense and propose to our understanding a system of government as the invention of mere human wisdom; no deity comes down to dictate it, not a God appears in a dream to propose any part of it."

While many states maintained established churches and religious tests for office — Massachusetts was the last to disestablish, in 1833 — the federal framers, in their refusal to link civil rights to religious observance or adherence, helped create a culture of religious liberty that ultimately carried the day.


Thomas Jefferson said that his bill for religious liberty in Virginia was "meant to comprehend, within the mantle of its protection, the Jew and the Gentile, the Christian and the Mahometan, the Hindu, and infidel of every denomination."

When George Washington was inaugurated in New York in April 1789, Gershom Seixas, the hazan of Shearith Israel, was listed among the city's clergymen (there were 14 in New York at the time) — a sign of acceptance and respect.

The next year, Washington wrote the Hebrew Congregation of Newport, R.I., saying, "happily the government of the United States ... gives to bigotry no sanction, to persecution no assistance. ... Everyone shall sit in safety under his own vine and fig tree, and there shall be none to make him afraid."

Andrew Jackson
resisted bids in the 1820s to form a "Christian party in politics."

Abraham Lincoln
buried a proposed "Christian amendment" to the Constitution to declare the nation's fealty to Jesus.

Theodore Roosevelt
defended William Howard Taft, a Unitarian, from religious attacks by supporters of William Jennings Bryan.

The founders were not anti-religion.
Many of them were faithful in their personal lives, and in their public language they evoked God. They grounded the founding principle of the nation — that all men are created equal — in the divine. But they wanted faith to be one thread in the country's tapestry, not the whole tapestry.


In the 1790s, in the waters off Tripoli, pirates were making sport of American shipping near the Barbary Coast. Toward the end of his second term, Washington sent Joel Barlow, the diplomat-poet, to Tripoli to settle matters, and the resulting treaty, finished after Washington left office, bought a few years of peace. Article 11 of this long-ago document says that "as the government of the United States is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion," there should be no cause for conflict over differences of "religious opinion" between countries.

The treaty passed the Senate unanimously.

Mr. McCain is not the only American who would find it useful reading.





Correction: October 13, 2007

An Op-Ed article on Sunday, about the idea of the United States as a Christian nation, incorrectly described the number of the original Constitution's religious references. Article VI forbids the use of "a religious test" for officeholders; the phrase "the year of our Lord" is not the sole allusion to religion.

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/10/07/opinion/...amp;oref=slogin


"It does me no injury," said Thomas Jefferson, "for my neighbor to say there are twenty gods, or no God. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg."


Man once surrendering his reason, has no remaining guard against absurdities the most monstrous, and like a ship without rudder, is the sport of every wind.

-Thomas Jefferson to James Smith, 1822




One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.
Romans 14:5





The nation takes great satisfaction and much strength from the things which have been done to make its people conscious of their individual stake in the preservation of democratic life in America. Those things have toughened the fiber of our people, have renewed their faith and strengthened their devotion to the institutions we make ready to protect.

Certainly this is no time for any of us to stop thinking about the social and economic problems which are the root cause of the social revolution which is today a supremefactor in the world. For there is nothing mysterious about the foundations of a healthy and strong democracy.

The basic things expected by our people of their political and economic systems are simple. They are:

  • Equality of opportunity for youth and for others.
  • Jobs for those who can work.
  • Security for those who need it.
  • The ending of special privilege for the few.
  • The preservation of civil liberties for all.
  • The enjoyment of the fruits of scientific progress in a wider and constantly rising standard of living.
These are the simple, the basic things that must never be lost sight of in the turmoil and unbelievable complexity of our modern world. The inner and abiding straight of oureconomic and political systems is dependent upon the degree to which they fulfill these expectations.

Many subjects connected with our social economy call for immediate improvement. As examples:

  • We should bring more citizens under the coverage of old-age pensions and unemployment insurance.
  • We should widen the opportunities for adequate medical care.
  • We should plan a better system by which persons deserving or needing gainful employment may obtain it.
No person should try, or be allowed to get rich out of a program, and the principle of tax payments in accordance with ability to pay should be constantly before our eyes to guide our legislation.

If the congress maintains these principles the voters, putting patriotism ahead pocketbooks, will give their applause.

In the future days which we seek to make secure, we look forward to a world founded upon four essential human freedoms.

The first is freedom of speech and expression -- everywhere in the world.

The second is freedom of every person to worship God in his own way-- everywhere in the world.

The third is freedom from want, which, translated into world terms, means economic understandings which will secure to every nation a healthy peacetime life for its inhabitants -- everywhere in the world.

The fourth is freedom from fear, which, translated into world terms, means a world-wide reduction of armaments to such a point and in such a thorough fashion that no nation will be in a position to commit an act of physical aggression against any neighbor -- anywhere in the world.



That is no vision of a distant millennium. It is a definite basis for a kind of world attainable in our own time and generation. That kind of world is the very antithesis of the so-called "new order" of tyranny which the dictators seek to create with the crash of a bomb, or any other means of coercion.

To that new order we oppose the greater conception -- the moral order. A good society is able to face schemes of world domination and foreign revolutions alike without fear.

Since the beginning of our American history we have been engaged in change, in a perpetual, peaceful revolution, a revolution which goes on steadily, quietly, adjusting itself to changing conditions without the concentration camp or the quicklime in the ditch. The world order which we seek is the cooperation of free countries, working together in a friendly, civilized society.

This nation has placed its destiny in the hands, heads and hearts of its millions of free men and women, and its faith in freedom under the guidance of God.

Freedom means the supremacy of human rights everywhere. Our support goes to those who struggle to gain those rights and keep them.

Our strength is our unity of purpose.


To that high concept there can be no end save victory.

WhiteKnight
I learned a lot here:-

http://gotquestions.org/Christian-nation.html
John Prewett
Calling USA a "Christian" nation is an insult to/slander of Christ.
voice



R. Albert Mohler Jr.

President, The Southern Baptist Theological Seminary

R. Albert Mohler, Jr. is the ninth president of The Southern Baptist Theological Seminary—the flagship school of the Southern Baptist Convention and one of the largest seminaries in the world. The "On Faith" panelist is a theologian and ordained minister and has served as pastor and staff minister of several Southern Baptist churches. He holds a Master of Divinity degree and the Doctor of Philosophy (in systematic and historical theology) from Southern Seminary. He did additional study at the St. Meinrad School of Theology and research at Oxford University. He became seminary president after serving as editor of The Christian Index, the oldest of the state papers serving the Southern Baptist Convention. Called "an articulate voice for conservative Christianity at large" by the Chicago Tribune, Mohler's mission is to address contemporary issues from a consistent and explicit Christian worldview. He hosts a daily radio program for the Salem Radio Network and blogs on moral, cultural and theological issues. He also has contributed chapters to several books including Hell Under Fire, Whatever Happened to Truth, Here We Stand: A Call From Confessing Evangelicals and The Coming Evangelical Crisis. He served as General Editor of The Gods of the Age or the God of the Ages: Essays by Carl F. H. Henry.


R. Albert Mohler Jr.

President, The Southern Baptist Theological Seminary

R. Albert Mohler, Jr. is the ninth president of The Southern Baptist Theological Seminary—the flagship school of the Southern Baptist Convention and one of the largest seminaries in the world. The "On Faith" panelist is a theologian and ordained minister and has served as pastor and staff minister of several Southern Baptist churches.


A Nation of Christians, Not a Christian Nation

Is America a "Christian nation?" The question is not as simple as might first appear. Better to say that this is a nation whose citizens are overwhelmingly Christian. This is a distinction with a difference.

Christian nation or nation of Christians? Some Christians imagine a version of history in which the republic was established as a Christian nation in something like a constitutional sense. An honest look at the historical record indicates that this was not the case. Christianity has never been an established religion in any official sense at the national level. The establishment clause of the First Amendment forbids a national church.

Yet, even at the time of the ratification of the Constitution, some states still had established churches. Congregationalism was the established church of Connecticut until 1818. Furthermore, several of the colonies and settlements had been established with explicitly Christian identities.

The founders were themselves a mixture of devoted Christians, apparent Deists, and some freethinkers. An honest look indicates that some, like Jefferson, were fairly radical in their skepticism. Others, like Franklin, were eccentrics of one sort or another. Washington was probably a committed Christian marked by some reticence to speak of his personal beliefs. Others included explicitly evangelical Christians.

Nevertheless, the worldview shared by the founders and the colonists was explicitly and unquestionably Christian. The plausibility structures that made the world sensible to Americans -- the intellectual principles and moral habits that guided their actions -- were clearly based in the Christian tradition and the Bible. In fact, this truth was stated clearly, openly, and honestly by American presidents, political leaders, jurists, and others until recent decades.

America is not a Christian nation by constitution or charter. There has never been a time when all Americans were Christians or that Christian identity could be assumed as evangelical.

But, American citizens are overwhelmingly Christian. This has always been so, and is so now. This is why G. K. Chesterton would refer to America as the "nation with the soul of a church." The American experiment in religious liberty has produced a nation that, unlike most of Europe, has resisted complete secularization.

The vast majority of Americans identify themselves as Christians. This simple fact points to the "Christian" character of the nation. America is not Christian by constitutional provision or creedal affirmation -- but its people are overwhelmingly Christian by self-affirmation. Thoughtful evangelicals will not overestimate the convictional character of this self-identification. Secularists ought not to overestimate its superficiality.

It is manifest nonsense to act as if the vast majority of Americans do not share a common Christian identification. This is certainly apparent at Christmas, when most Americans celebrate a specifically Christian holiday. When such an overwhelming majority of citizens celebrate a common holiday, the presence of imagery and symbolism does indeed saturate the country. It could not be otherwise.

The allergic reaction of some cannot nullify the rights of the many. As America recognizes and respects the diversity of the beliefs of its citizens, we should expect to see more symbolism representing different religions rather than less.

Christians should not be offended by the public display of the Menorah at Hanukkah or the display of other religious symbols at other occasions. Religious liberty means liberty for all.

Should America be a Christian nation? No. Not in a constitutional or creedal sense.

But, as a believer in Jesus Christ, my hope is that every American would come to a saving knowledge of Christ. My hope could be nothing less. But that would mean a nation of Christians, not a Christian nation.

According to the Bible, the Kingdom of God will include believers in Christ from every tongue and tribe and people and nation. There will be no American section in Heaven. Faith does not come to nations, but to individuals. Yet, nations are shaped by the faith and worldview of their citizens.

Is America a Christian nation? No. But it is a nation with a majority of its citizens identifying themselves as Christians. This is a distinction with a difference.

http://newsweek.washingtonpost.com/onfaith..._differenc.html
voice
QUOTE (Voice @ Oct 15 2008, 05:34 PM) *



R. Albert Mohler Jr.

President, The Southern Baptist Theological Seminary

R. Albert Mohler, Jr. is the ninth president of The Southern Baptist Theological Seminary—the flagship school of the Southern Baptist Convention and one of the largest seminaries in the world. The "On Faith" panelist is a theologian and ordained minister and has served as pastor and staff minister of several Southern Baptist churches. He holds a Master of Divinity degree and the Doctor of Philosophy (in systematic and historical theology) from Southern Seminary. He did additional study at the St. Meinrad School of Theology and research at Oxford University. He became seminary president after serving as editor of The Christian Index, the oldest of the state papers serving the Southern Baptist Convention. Called "an articulate voice for conservative Christianity at large" by the Chicago Tribune, Mohler's mission is to address contemporary issues from a consistent and explicit Christian worldview. He hosts a daily radio program for the Salem Radio Network and blogs on moral, cultural and theological issues. He also has contributed chapters to several books including Hell Under Fire, Whatever Happened to Truth, Here We Stand: A Call From Confessing Evangelicals and The Coming Evangelical Crisis. He served as General Editor of The Gods of the Age or the God of the Ages: Essays by Carl F. H. Henry.


R. Albert Mohler Jr.

President, The Southern Baptist Theological Seminary

R. Albert Mohler, Jr. is the ninth president of The Southern Baptist Theological Seminary—the flagship school of the Southern Baptist Convention and one of the largest seminaries in the world. The "On Faith" panelist is a theologian and ordained minister and has served as pastor and staff minister of several Southern Baptist churches.


A Nation of Christians, Not a Christian Nation

Is America a "Christian nation?" The question is not as simple as might first appear. Better to say that this is a nation whose citizens are overwhelmingly Christian. This is a distinction with a difference.

Christian nation or nation of Christians? Some Christians imagine a version of history in which the republic was established as a Christian nation in something like a constitutional sense. An honest look at the historical record indicates that this was not the case. Christianity has never been an established religion in any official sense at the national level. The establishment clause of the First Amendment forbids a national church.

Yet, even at the time of the ratification of the Constitution, some states still had established churches. Congregationalism was the established church of Connecticut until 1818. Furthermore, several of the colonies and settlements had been established with explicitly Christian identities.

The founders were themselves a mixture of devoted Christians, apparent Deists, and some freethinkers. An honest look indicates that some, like Jefferson, were fairly radical in their skepticism. Others, like Franklin, were eccentrics of one sort or another. Washington was probably a committed Christian marked by some reticence to speak of his personal beliefs. Others included explicitly evangelical Christians.

Nevertheless, the worldview shared by the founders and the colonists was explicitly and unquestionably Christian. The plausibility structures that made the world sensible to Americans -- the intellectual principles and moral habits that guided their actions -- were clearly based in the Christian tradition and the Bible. In fact, this truth was stated clearly, openly, and honestly by American presidents, political leaders, jurists, and others until recent decades.

America is not a Christian nation by constitution or charter. There has never been a time when all Americans were Christians or that Christian identity could be assumed as evangelical.

But, American citizens are overwhelmingly Christian. This has always been so, and is so now. This is why G. K. Chesterton would refer to America as the "nation with the soul of a church." The American experiment in religious liberty has produced a nation that, unlike most of Europe, has resisted complete secularization.

The vast majority of Americans identify themselves as Christians. This simple fact points to the "Christian" character of the nation. America is not Christian by constitutional provision or creedal affirmation -- but its people are overwhelmingly Christian by self-affirmation. Thoughtful evangelicals will not overestimate the convictional character of this self-identification. Secularists ought not to overestimate its superficiality.

It is manifest nonsense to act as if the vast majority of Americans do not share a common Christian identification. This is certainly apparent at Christmas, when most Americans celebrate a specifically Christian holiday. When such an overwhelming majority of citizens celebrate a common holiday, the presence of imagery and symbolism does indeed saturate the country. It could not be otherwise.

The allergic reaction of some cannot nullify the rights of the many. As America recognizes and respects the diversity of the beliefs of its citizens, we should expect to see more symbolism representing different religions rather than less.

Christians should not be offended by the public display of the Menorah at Hanukkah or the display of other religious symbols at other occasions. Religious liberty means liberty for all.

Should America be a Christian nation? No. Not in a constitutional or creedal sense.

But, as a believer in Jesus Christ, my hope is that every American would come to a saving knowledge of Christ. My hope could be nothing less. But that would mean a nation of Christians, not a Christian nation.

According to the Bible, the Kingdom of God will include believers in Christ from every tongue and tribe and people and nation. There will be no American section in Heaven. Faith does not come to nations, but to individuals. Yet, nations are shaped by the faith and worldview of their citizens.

Is America a Christian nation? No. But it is a nation with a majority of its citizens identifying themselves as Christians. This is a distinction with a difference.

http://newsweek.washingtonpost.com/onfaith..._differenc.html


But, the born again believers within Christianity are a "nation".

1 Peter 2:9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light.
voice

There is No Such Thing as a Christian Democracy



Democritus (Greek: Δημόκριτος, Dēmokritos, "chosen of the people") was a pre-Socratic Greek materialist philosopher (born at Abdera in Thrace ca. 460 BC - died ca 370 BC).



There is no such thing as a Christian Democracy. There is no such thing as a Muslim Democracy or a Jewish Democracy either (or a solely Heterosexual one, for that matter). True Democracy means True Equality and no religion sees itself as equal to all the others (and they feel especially unequal to secularism and atheism).


Of all the problems we face in unifying the "United" States of America, one of the largest and most damaging is those who believe that their religion should be the official religion of our Democracy.


In this country, the vast majority of them feel that the USA was founded as a Christian nation and should be run like one, which is anathema to the true Democratic ideals of our founding fathers.


They never once think how they would feel if they were a minority and another religion was trying to assert its dominance over them in society. Let's look at two quotes from our presidential candidates that expose their feelings about American Democracy:



"Democracy demands that the religiously motivated translate their concerns into universal, rather than religion-specific, values. It requires that their proposals be subject to argument, and amenable to reason.

I may be opposed to abortion for religious reasons, but if I seek to pass a law banning the practice, I cannot simply point to the teachings of my church or evoke God's will.

I have to explain why abortion violates some principle that is accessible to people of all faiths, including those with no faith at all." --Sen. Barack Obama, 6/28/06
"The Constitution established the United States of America as a Christian Nation." - John McCain on video
And just for good measure, three quotes from some of our Founding Fathers as shown in Bill Maher's excellent film "Religulous":



"Christianity is the most perverted system that ever shone on man." -- Thomas Jefferson

"This would be the best of all possible worlds, if there were no religion in it." -- John Adams


"Lighthouses are more useful than churches." -- Benjamin Franklin

There is a fast growing percentage of the US population who does not choose organized religion at all and in many cases, follow or even acknowledge a god.


Add to that the millions of American non-Christian believers of every other faith and you wind up with a large swath of the population of our country.

Regardless of how sure you are that Christ will herald the Rapture and all sinners will go to Hell, connecting those beliefs with government is massively disrespectful of all the non-Christian citizens you share the country with.




The main problem has to do with faith itself.


People of every religion must accept certain dictates and definitions about how and why things are in their belief system and they must believe that their religious laws are "right" and all other beliefs (and non-beliefs) are thereby wrong.


You can see how this is incongruous with Democratic equality.


I may not believe in Jesus Christ, but my non-theistic lifestyle doesn't require my feeling superior to people of religion. Nor does it require convincing or recruiting other people to believe with me.





But how often we see the holier-than-thou finger-pointing and the smug air of blind faith lorded over those who are different.


Religion divides.


And nobody's right.

A billion Muslims think the other 5 billion people on the planet are wrong.

A billion Christians think the other 5 billion people on the planet are wrong.


To the casual observer, it would seem to be a losing battle, a giant hedging of bets on red or black, a certainty in the one you picked and a total ignorance towards the many other colors of the rainbow.

A 50% chance of being right and yet, the believers all seem so sure of their beliefs.


In many ways, life is 50/50- either things go your way or they don't.


That's life and the chances we take while living it. Having expectations of outcomes sets up disappointments and let's face it, none of us can predict the future. The past is gone and the future is uncertain, leaving only the moment you exist in as the one sure thing. Eckhart Tolle's best-seller The Power of Now is about that very subject, and there is great power in accepting a reality where we aren't bound to past and future but to Right Now.


And Right Now more than ever, we need the kind of Democracy that provides the Freedom and Equality that America truly stands for.








Beyond religion, beyond race, beyond class, there is a world that waits for us to come together as one people, one race, one love.


All it takes is a decision by each of us to accept our fellow citizens as equals so we can be truly unified by our fundamental rights of Liberty, Justice and the Pursuit of Happiness, three unalienable rights as promised in the Declaration of Independence.


And for the record, the American Heritage Dictionary defines 'unalienable' as "Not to be separated, given away, or taken away."


Those who seek to take away or subjugate the rights of others are inherently un-American and don't respect true Liberty and Justice for All.


Religious elitism goes against the very foundation of Democracy and the principles that this great country was built on.


If America is to truly be a shining beacon on the hill, it's light must reach all people, not some chosen few.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/robbie-genne...tml?view=screen




Here Am I
AMERICA is steeped in paganism.



Roman goddess Juno 735 B.C. (wife of Zeus)




THE TORCH SYMBOL
Illuminati means to "bare light" one way to symbolize this is by carrying a torch. A torch sits on top of the Statue of Liberty, on top of JFK's grave, and on top of the tunnel where Princess Diana was killed.

Best selling author, Robert Bauval:

"The cornerstone for the Statue of Liberty was placed in a solemn ceremony in 1884 organised by the Masonic lodges of New York.

The Statue of Liberty, which was designed by the French sculptor Bartholdi and actually built by the French Engineer, Gustave Eiffel (both well-known Freemasons), was not originally a ‘Statue of Liberty’ at all, but first planned by Bartholdi for the opening of the Suez Canal in Egypt in 1867.

Bartholdi, like many French Freemasons of his time, was deeply steeped in ‘Egyptian’ rituals, and it has often been said that he conceived the original statue as an effigy of the goddess Isis, and only later converted it to a ‘Statue of Liberty’ for New York harbour when it was rejected for the Suez Canal."

The goddess Isis is known by many names, including Juno. [ and QUEEN OF HEAVEN ]

Interestingly, the goddess Juno made an appearance on a Vatican coin in 1963 (notice her torch) during the period of the alleged Freemason Roncalli's Pontificate, the curiously named John XXIII, architect of the disasterous Vatican II.




Below: Frederic Auguste Bartholdi, the Sculpture of the Statue of Liberty, on a Masonic Card (notice the Masonic compass and square).




From another article by Bauval:
"The 'torch' analogy is very interesting. The original statue of Bartholdi destined first for Port Said at the mouth of the Suez Canal, was also to bear a torch intended to symbolise 'the Orient showing the way'. The 'Grand Orient', of course, is the name of the French Masonic mother lodge, and to which Bartholdi belonged. There is another similar 'torch' that played a strange role in the French Revolution, but of which I will reveal later in my forthcoming book "Talisman". It still is to be seen in the skyline of Paris today.

People today do not realise the power of such symbolism, and how they can be used with devastating effect on the minds of the unsuspecting masses. And this is worrying. The SS Nazi movement made prolific use of all these 'symbol games', and wreeked havoc in the world." Below: "The Illuminati" Enlightening the World (and keeping the rest of us in the dark) - Pre 9-11 picture, showing WTC towers & Statue of Liberty's Torch.




CORNERSTONE: Below a photo of the cornerstone for the Statue of Liberty.



http://www.geocities.com/rhondajb/STATUELIBERTYLIE.htm
wernotalone
In the END there is only ONE person we will be held accountable to.






JESUS IS LORD.

And every knee will bow and every tongue confess that Jesus is LORD.

endtime




Norman Rockwell was a talented painter.

Here Am I
QUOTE (wernotalone @ Oct 29 2008, 08:23 PM) *
In the END there is only ONE person we will be held accountable to.


That's a 'given', wernotalone. Of course, in the end, all will be accountable to Creator God.

But the subject of this thread is "A Nation Of Christians Is Not A Christian Nation, One Nation, under God for the Jew, Muslim, Christian"

Is AMERICA a 'Christian' nation... or a nation willing to compromise the truth of God's Word to be inclusive of pagan religious beliefs, also?
wernotalone
QUOTE (Here Am I @ Oct 30 2008, 02:36 AM) *
QUOTE (wernotalone @ Oct 29 2008, 08:23 PM) *
In the END there is only ONE person we will be held accountable to.


That's a 'given', wernotalone. Of course, in the end, all will be accountable to Creator God.

But the subject of this thread is "A Nation Of Christians Is Not A Christian Nation, One Nation, under God for the Jew, Muslim, Christian"

Is AMERICA a 'Christian' nation... or a nation willing to compromise the truth of God's Word to be inclusive of pagan nations, also?






God is the judge of all the nations, America will not be exclusive of his judgment. All nations will be judged.

And suppose you could judge America right now?????...what would you like to do?
how would you make things right in your eyes.

I know that all systems of this world will fail..but that doesn't mean that I judge a nation by all it's peoples, and if you consider that, you will see that our country is a nations of many many mixed nations...so all nations live here and have contributed to justice and liberty, and some to violence and greed and hatred...

By the way, JESUS' children are everywhere.

And after reading this article....it seems to be whats coming under new leadership....no ABSOLUTES.

And maybe this is judgment upon our nation...but in the mean time, I'm not going to be bias and base all our governing parties
as INFIDELS....like ISLAM DOES. And uses as a hate tactics to turn a Nation's peoples against itself with lack of trust. There are God fearing people in our nation, and many READY to step into the depths of Hell to pull others out.

I sometimes wonder about you Anne, your allowing the enemy to cause deep seeded fear...JESUS LOVES you, and he will not let you go...don't let these things of the world bother you.

WISHY WASHY systems THAT LEAD TO Chaos with no wrong or right...trying to please everyone even if that
means their ways are extreme

Yes the ROD is coming, we have all fallen short of the glory of God.

Pray that you may be found able to escape the hour of temptation.


You must remember JESUS said that if you are neither cold nor hot, I will spit you out.

if your just wobbling on a fence You have NO STABILITY.

Stay in Christ and TURN TO HIM ALONE...don't worry about the wicked IN MANY PLACES, the powers of darkness in HIGH places...for we WRESTLE NOT AGAINST FLESH AND BLOOD.

God Bless you.




happy2Bfree
I don't think most of America is pagan.

I think most Americans are decent, law abiding people.

But I'm seeing something very sad. Its like a blindfold is covering the eyes of many.

And I'm sure it is happening because of what is prophesied to come.

May God have mercy on us and wake people up.
endtime
QUOTE (Here Am I @ Oct 30 2008, 01:36 AM) *
QUOTE (wernotalone @ Oct 29 2008, 08:23 PM) *
In the END there is only ONE person we will be held accountable to.


That's a 'given', wernotalone. Of course, in the end, all will be accountable to Creator God.

But the subject of this thread is "A Nation Of Christians Is Not A Christian Nation, One Nation, under God for the Jew, Muslim, Christian"

Is AMERICA a 'Christian' nation... or a nation willing to compromise the truth of God's Word to be inclusive of pagan religious beliefs, also?



What about this guy who was he accountable to?

Ezekiel 28
9 "Will you still say before him who slays you, 'I am a god'? But you shall be a man, and not a god, In the hand of him who slays you.

America has never been a nation of Christians. America has always been a nation of merchandise. God and Christ are their favorite product.







wernotalone
QUOTE (Chloé @ Oct 30 2008, 03:06 AM) *
I don't think most of America is pagan.

I think most Americans are decent, law abiding people.

But I'm seeing something very sad. Its like a blindfold is covering the eyes of many.

And I'm sure it is happening because of what is prophesied to come.

May God have mercy on us and wake people up.


God is merciful...and LOVES MERCY over wrath...he will gather us all together, to be united in CHRIST JESUS...no nothing else matters...for anything outside of God's love is going to fall...For he died so that we could live with him in eternity.

We must remember how Jesus walked, in the face of adversity....he PRAYED alot. 1dsz5e4.gif ..and IS PRAYING FOR US NOW...let us be found reaching out to one another and for his continuing guidance...not in fear, but trusting in Christ, that he is the FINISHER OF OUR FAITH, the ALPHA AND OMEGA. blessings to you all.
happy2Bfree
QUOTE (wernotalone @ Oct 29 2008, 09:12 PM) *
QUOTE (Chloé @ Oct 30 2008, 03:06 AM) *
I don't think most of America is pagan.

I think most Americans are decent, law abiding people.

But I'm seeing something very sad. Its like a blindfold is covering the eyes of many.

And I'm sure it is happening because of what is prophesied to come.

May God have mercy on us and wake people up.


God is merciful...and LOVES MERCY over wrath...he will gather us all together, to be united in CHRIST JESUS...no nothing else matters...for anything outside of God's love is going to fall...For he died so that we could live with him in eternity.

We must remember how Jesus walked, in the face of adversity....he PRAYED alot. 1dsz5e4.gif ..and IS PRAYING FOR US NOW...let us be found reaching out to one another and for his continuing guidance...not in fear, but trusting in Christ, that he is the FINISHER OF OUR FAITH, the ALPHA AND OMEGA. blessings to you all.



Amen. smile.gif
voice
Is America a Christian Nation?




The U.S. Constitution is a secular document. It begins, "We the people," and contains no mention of "God" or "Christianity." Its only references to religion are exclusionary, such as, "no religious test shall ever be required as a qualification to any office or public trust" (Art. VI), and "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof" (First Amendment). The presidential oath of office, the only oath detailed in the Constitution, does not contain the phrase "so help me God" or any requirement to swear on a bible (Art. II, Sec. 1, Clause 8). If we are a Christian nation, why doesn't our Constitution say so?

In 1797 America made a treaty with Tripoli, declaring that "the government of the United States is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion." This reassurance to Islam was written under Washington's presidency, and approved by the Senate under John Adams.


The First Amendment To The U.S. Constitution:

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof . . ."

What about the Declaration of Independence?
We are not governed by the Declaration. Its purpose was to "dissolve the political bands," not to set up a religious nation. Its authority was based on the idea that "governments are instituted among men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed," which is contrary to the biblical concept of rule by divine authority. It deals with laws, taxation, representation, war, immigration, and so on, never discussing religion at all.

The references to "Nature's God," "Creator," and "Divine Providence" in the Declaration do not endorse Christianity. Thomas Jefferson, its author, was a Deist, opposed to orthodox Christianity and the supernatural.


What about the Pilgrims and Puritans?
The first colony of English-speaking Europeans was Jamestown, settled in 1609 for trade, not religious freedom. Fewer than half of the 102 Mayflower passengers in 1620 were "Pilgrims" seeking religious freedom. The secular United States of America was formed more than a century and a half later. If tradition requires us to return to the views of a few early settlers, why not adopt the polytheistic and natural beliefs of the Native Americans, the true founders of the continent at least 12,000 years earlier?

Most of the religious colonial governments excluded and persecuted those of the "wrong" faith. The framers of our Constitution in 1787 wanted no part of religious intolerance and bloodshed, wisely establishing the first government in history to separate church and state.


Do the words "separation of church and state" appear in the Constitution?
The phrase, "a wall of separation between church and state," was coined by President Thomas Jefferson in a carefully crafted letter to the Danbury Baptists in 1802, when they had asked him to explain the First Amendment. The Supreme Court, and lower courts, have used Jefferson's phrase repeatedly in major decisions upholding neutrality in matters of religion. The exact words "separation of church and state" do not appear in the Constitution; neither do "separation of powers," "interstate commerce," "right to privacy," and other phrases describing well-established constitutional principles.


What does "separation of church and state" mean?
Thomas Jefferson, explaining the phrase to the Danbury Baptists, said, "the legitimate powers of government reach actions only, and not opinions." Personal religious views are just that: personal. Our government has no right to promulgate religion or to interfere with private beliefs.

The Supreme Court has forged a three-part "Lemon test" (Lemon v. Kurtzman, 1971) to determine if a law is permissible under the First-Amendment religion clauses.

  1. A law must have a secular purpose.
  2. It must have a primary effect which neither advances nor inhibits religion.
  3. It must avoid excessive entanglement of church and state.
The separation of church and state is a wonderful American principle supported not only by minorities, such as Jews, Moslems, and unbelievers, but applauded by most Protestant churches that recognize that it has allowed religion to flourish in this nation. It keeps the majority from pressuring the minority.


What about majority rule?
America is one nation under a Constitution. Although the Constitution sets up a representative democracy, it specifically was amended with the Bill of Rights in 1791 to uphold individual and minority rights. On constitutional matters we do not have majority rule. For example, when the majority in certain localities voted to segregate blacks, this was declared illegal. The majority has no right to tyrannize the minority on matters such as race, gender, or religion.

Not only is it unAmerican for the government to promote religion, it is rude. Whenever a public official uses the office to advance religion, someone is offended. The wisest policy is one of neutrality.


Isn't removing religion from public places hostile to religion?
No one is deprived of worship in America. Tax-exempt churches and temples abound. The state has no say about private religious beliefs and practices, unless they endanger health or life. Our government represents all of the people, supported by dollars from a plurality of religious and non-religious taxpayers.

Some countries, such as the U.S.S.R., expressed hostility to religion. Others, such as Iran ("one nation under God"), have welded church and state. America wisely has taken the middle course--neither for nor against religion. Neutrality offends no one, and protects everyone.


The First Amendment deals with "Congress." Can't states make their own religious policies?
Under the "due process" clause of the 14th Amendment (ratified in 1868), the entire Bill of Rights applies to the states. No governor, mayor, sheriff, public school employee, or other public official may violate the human rights embodied in the Constitution. The government at all levels must respect the separation of church and state. Most state constitutions, in fact, contain language that is even stricter than the First Amendment, prohibiting the state from setting up a ministry, using tax dollars to promote religion, or interfering with freedom of conscience.


What about "One nation under God" and "In God We Trust?"
The words, "under God," did not appear in the Pledge of Allegiance until 1954, when Congress, under McCarthyism, inserted them. Likewise, "In God We Trust" was absent from paper currency before 1956. It appeared on some coins earlier, as did other sundry phrases, such as "Mind Your Business." The original U.S. motto, chosen by John Adams, Benjamin Franklin, and Thomas Jefferson, is E Pluribus Unum ("Of Many, One"), celebrating plurality, not theocracy.


Isn't American law based on the Ten Commandments?
Not at all! The first four Commandments are religious edicts having nothing to do with law or ethical behavior. Only three (homicide, theft, and perjury) are relevant to current American law, and have existed in cultures long before Moses. If Americans honored the commandment against "coveting," free enterprise would collapse! The Supreme Court has ruled that posting the Ten Commandments in public schools is unconstitutional.

Our secular laws, based on the human principle of "justice for all," provide protection against crimes, and our civil government enforces them through a secular criminal justice system.


Why be concerned about the separation of church and state?
Ignoring history, law, and fairness, many fanatics are working vigorously to turn America into a Christian nation. Fundamentalist Protestants and right-wing Catholics would impose their narrow morality on the rest of us, resisting women's rights, freedom for religious minorities and unbelievers, gay and lesbian rights, and civil rights for all. History shows us that only harm comes of uniting church and state.

America has never been a Christian nation. We are a free nation. Anne Gaylor, president of the Freedom From Religion Foundation, points out: "There can be no religious freedom without the freedom to dissent."



http://www.ffrf.org/nontracts/xian.php
Here Am I
America is being judged by God from the inside out... RIGHT NOW! We are witnessing a total implosion of the economy which is leading to a time none of us are able to comprehend yet.

The people who call themselves 'Christians' have compromised with evil and they partake willingly of the world's satanic systems to achieve success and notoriety... to have their little piece of Satan's kingdom. They are in bondage to Satan. ; not free in Christ. They are deceived.

Many who consider themselves 'God's people' choose to be naive and wink at the evil all around them, and even let the world entertain them! God forbid!

ALL ARE NOT GOD'S CHILDREN!

"Ye are of [your] father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it." -John 8:44

Many have a false hope of salvation... not founded solely on the Word of God...but by a religious institution that insures them that they have done all the right "things", and that they are a child of God.

Just as in ancient Israel, so it will be today:


"My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge: because thou hast rejected knowledge, I will also reject thee, that thou shalt be no priest to me: seeing thou hast forgotten the law of thy God, I will also forget thy children. " -Hosea 4:6

"I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot. So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth. Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked" -Revelation 3:15-17


ON THE OTHER HAND... all "true believers" ARE BOTHERED... and they are rightfully indignant and repulsed by how this country has digressed. God's Word and His commandments have been made a mockery and of no value, while relativity and complacency rules, and is ubiquitous. Speaking the Word of God to homosexuals is considered by many to be a hate crime!

"I hate and abhor lying: but THY LAW DO I LOVE." -Psalms 119:163

FEAR? People of this country, and the entire world, better FEAR God and look to Him for mercy NOW while the opportunity still exists. The time is very short.

"FEAR God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters. And there followed another angel, saying, Babylon is fallen, is fallen, that great city, because she made all nations drink of the wine of the wrath of her fornication. And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive [his] mark in his forehead, or in his hand, The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb: And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name." -Revelation 14:7-11

"The FEAR of the LORD [is] to hate evil: pride, and arrogancy, and the evil way, and the froward mouth, do I hate." -Proverbs 8:13

Now is the time for all true believers to be watchmen... to warn others of God's coming judgment.

"But if the watchman see the sword come, and blow not the trumpet, and the people be not warned; if the sword come, and take [any] person from among them, he is taken away in his iniquity; but his blood will I require at the watchman's hand." -Ezekiel 33:6

"Ye that love the Lord, hate evil: he preserveth the souls of his saints; he delivereth them out of the hand of the wicked." -Psalm 97:10
voice
For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?
1 Peter 4:17

But each one must examine his own work, and then he will have reason for boasting in regard to himself alone, and not in regard to another.
Galatians 6:4
Here Am I
QUOTE (Voice @ Oct 30 2008, 12:49 PM) *
For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?
1 Peter 4:17

But each one must examine his own work, and then he will have reason for boasting in regard to himself alone, and not in regard to another.
Galatians 6:4



"For, lo, I begin to bring evil on the CITY WHICH IS CALLED BY MY NAME, and should ye be utterly unpunished? Ye shall not be unpunished: for I will call for a sword upon all the inhabitants of the earth, saith the LORD of hosts." -Jeremiah 25:29

"For the time [is come] that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if [it] first [begin] at us, what shall the end [be] of them that obey not the gospel of God?" -1Peter 4:17

God's judgment is always perfect. In the above verses, He warms of His judgment upon the city which is called by His name.

The churches have been the external representation of the kingdom of God on earth... where the "Christians" were found... the holy place.

It would seem that, from man's point of view, the churches would be the last to experience God's judgment, especially those who preach Jesus Christ as Saviour, and whose congregations are made up of mostly decent, moral people who claim to trust and obey Him. Even these who seem to live righteous before God, if God has not saved them, [b]they will be under the wrath of God.

God's true elect believers are not under His wrath:

"For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ"
-1 Thessalonians 5:9

In that day, judgment day, there will be many who think they are saved, but they and their churches have devised their own salvation plan; not according to what the Bible teaches.
God does all the saving.


"Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity." -Matthew 7:21-23

"No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day." -John 6:44


voice
QUOTE (Here Am I @ Oct 31 2008, 06:08 AM) *
QUOTE (Voice @ Oct 30 2008, 12:49 PM) *
For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?
1 Peter 4:17

But each one must examine his own work, and then he will have reason for boasting in regard to himself alone, and not in regard to another.
Galatians 6:4



"For, lo, I begin to bring evil on the CITY WHICH IS CALLED BY MY NAME, and should ye be utterly unpunished? Ye shall not be unpunished: for I will call for a sword upon all the inhabitants of the earth, saith the LORD of hosts." -Jeremiah 25:29

"For the time [is come] that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if [it] first [begin] at us, what shall the end [be] of them that obey not the gospel of God?" -1Peter 4:17

God's judgment is always perfect. In the above verses, He warms of His judgment upon the city which is called by His name.

The churches have been the external representation of the kingdom of God on earth... where the "Christians" were found... the holy place.

It would seem that, from man's point of view, the churches would be the last to experience God's judgment, especially those who preach Jesus Christ as Saviour, and whose congregations are made up of mostly decent, moral people who claim to trust and obey Him. Even these who seem to live righteous before God, if God has not saved them, [b]they will be under the wrath of God.

God's true elect believers are not under His wrath:

"For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ"
-1 Thessalonians 5:9

In that day, judgment day, there will be many who think they are saved, but they and their churches have devised their own salvation plan; not according to what the Bible teaches.
God does all the saving.


"Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity." -Matthew 7:21-23

"No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day." -John 6:44







The Terror of The Lord




If you are lost, then you will one day stand before God at a Great White Throne Judgment. If you are saved, then you too will stand before a judgment, the "Bema" Judgment Seat of Christ.

"For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad. Knowing therefore the terror of the Lord, we persuade men." (II Corinthians 5:10-11)

For most so-called Christians, the idea of their "knowing the terror of the Lord" sounds strange, perhaps even blasphemous. The reason for such a reaction against God's Word is that such "Christians" are either not aware of this passage of scripture, or else have a false view of Christ.

Their Christ is probably something like a a jolly old "Santa Claus" with a big bag of goodies to give them when they die, no matter how wickedly they lived their lives while on this Earth.

If you have such a false view of Christ, then you need to repent and trust the real Jesus, not "another Jesus" such the one you now believe in. You need to trust the real Jesus, the Jesus who is up in Heaven, the Jesus who is sitting at the right hand of God on His throne.

If you are not a Christian, then you need to become one. If you are a Christian, then you will stand before the "Bema" Judgment Throne of Christ. Do you know "the terror of the Lord"? Paul knew of this great terror. In fact, Paul was the human author of this very passage of scripture.


The good Christians of the past also knew of this terror of the Lord. Such good Christians of the past worked hard for Christ because they loved Him and because they knew that they would stand before Christ at the Bema Judgment to give an account of those things they did or did not do for Christ in this life.

A famous Christian once said, "Only one life, 'twill soon be past. Only what's done for Christ will last." Your "wood, hay, and stubble" will all be burned up that day. The endless hours of television and pleasure pursuits will be burned up that day. Your "good works" which you did to be seen by other people will all be burned up as well. Only what you actually did for Jesus Himself will not be burned at the Bema Judgment.

Have you actually worked for Christ, for Christ alone? Will you instead be naked before Jesus on that day? Will you be saved as if "by fire", with all your works burned up?


"For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ. Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble; Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is. If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire." (I Corinthians 3:11-15)

"Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent." (Revelation 2:5)

Let the terror of the Lord grip you. Let the terror of the Lord cause you to persuade men to come to Christ so they will not end up in the flames of Hell to burn there forever when they die. Get ready for the Bema Judgment. Jesus is coming again very soon. Trust Jesus to pay for your sins. Repent now, while you are able!

How to Find Peace With God




* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
John 3:18 "He who believes in Him is not judged; he who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

http://www.terrorofthelord.com/


The Terror Of The Lord

John 3:16

John 3:16 "For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.


One of the most prolific verses of scripture used by men today is John 3:16. "For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life." This is one of the most powerful statements in the divine record showing the great love God had for mankind to offer His only Son for redemption of wicked man. Through that sacrifice of misery and suffering, we have the hope and the realization of everlasting life. Who can not aspire for salvation without knowing the wonderful love God had in His willingness to let His Son die for all men? This passage stands as a monument of grace -- and a reminder of a certain reality.

Jesus taught His disciples from the sermon on the mount, "Enter by the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and there are many who go in by it. Because narrow is the gate and difficult is the way which leads to life, and there are few who find it." (Matthew 7:13,14) There are two paths of life men seek: the narrow gate and the wide gate. The narrow gate is difficult and leads to life but few will find it. The wide gate is the entrance to the broad way and the end is destruction. Sadly, many will follow this way. Jesus establishes the reality of the end of all men. He unfolds a harsh fact of eternal truth: most men will be lost and few will be saved.

John 3:16 teaches the reality of the eternal destiny of most people. The word "perish" means to be lost, ruined or destroyed. God gave His Son but people must believe in Him to be saved. If one does not believe in the Son of God, he will be lost. "Therefore I said to you that you will die in your sins; for if you do not believe that I am He, you will die in your sins." (John 8:24) The reality of what it means to perish is understood in the description of those who will be lost.

To perish is to suffer "everlasting fire" (Matthew 25:41), "hell fire" (Matthew 18:8,9), "eternal damnation" (Mark 3:29), "resurrection of condemnation" (John 5:29), "everlasting destruction" (2 Thessalonians 1:9), "to go to hell, into the fire that shall never be quenched, where their worm does not die and the fire is not quenched" (Mark 9:43,44). This is the reality of what will be the fate of those who do not obey the gospel of Jesus Christ.

It is satisfying to teach the wonderful salvation of God through His Son and we must present these thoughts to a lost and dying world. We must be reminded of the reality of what the eternal condition of those who refuse to submit to Christ will be. Paul writes in 2 Corinthians 5:11, "Knowing, therefore, the terror of the Lord, we persuade men." The terror of the Lord is the reality of what will happen after death. Obedience to God is not a small thing taken lightly. The persuasion of men must be accomplished by the grace of God and the terror of the Lord.

Luke 16:19-31 shows us how terrible it will be if we perish. Through this story Jesus gives a hint of how terrible it will be to be lost. There will be a consciousness of the torment we are enduring. "And being in torments... send Lazarus that he may dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame." It is real, it is terrible, it is final and there is no rest. (Revelation 14:11; 21:8)

What do we learn from John 3:16? The invitation of the Lord is to know the grace of God in sending Jesus Christ but that obedience is required to be saved from an eternal death. Hell is real, it is terrible, it is eternal and it is prepared. Jesus said, "He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned." (Mark 16:16)

By Kent Heaton
From Expository Files 9.8; August 2002



THE WRATH OF THE LAMB
AND THE
TERROR OF THE LORD




John 3:36 "He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not obey the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him."

In 1979 the Lord called me to prepare His people to meet Him. I have only one theme. I am not trying to be dramatic nor am I trying to be interesting. I am trying to obey the Lord. It is a great joy to serve the Lord Jesus in this way and yet it is very difficult to speak of these things. How can one human being, who is subject to the common temptations and faults of all mankind, speak to another fellow creature about the state of their soul? And so, God occasionally does special things to help:

One night as I was sleeping I was awakened by a voice in my bedroom which said, "The wrath of the Lamb and the terror of the Lord." I was jolted wide awake and looked around the room. There was no one there, of course, and my wife was sound asleep so I went back to sleep. About 30 minutes later I was awakened by a very loud voice in the room which said, "THE WRATH OF THE LAMB AND THE TERROR OF THE LORD!" This time I was wide awake with my heart pounding. I was really scared but amazingly I fell back to sleep almost instantly. About 30 minutes later I was awakened the third time by a voice in the room - very gently this time - which said, "The wrath of the Lamb and the terror of the Lord." I knew it was the Holy Spirit directing me to inquire and search out what this meant.

Both of these phrases are found in the Scriptures. The first is from Revelation 6:16. At the end of human history as we know it, the evil men say "...to the mountains and rocks, 'Fall on us and hide us from the face of Him who sits on the throne and from the wrath of the Lamb!'" Quite a different day is coming from the one that we know now. The ungodly will recognize and confess and declare that the disasters which will be upon the earth are coming from the Lamb. When we talk about Jesus as the Lamb we are talking about His redemptive work; His work on the cross in saving mankind. What, then, is the wrath of the Lamb?

John 3:18 says that he who believes in Jesus is not condemned but he who does not believe is condemned already BECAUSE he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. Then John says that this is the condemnation: Jesus came into the world to save us, but people don't want his salvation. You see, God never faults us for being what we are: sinners; but he does fault us for refusing His remedy. Therefore those who reject the redemptive work of Christ as the Lamb who takes away the sin of the world, will suffer the indescribable wrath of God - NOT for being a sinner, but for rejecting the Lamb's blood shed for them.

But for the child of God things are completely different: Jesus delivers us from the wrath to come. There is no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus. The word WRATH drops from the vocabulary of the believer! You cannot talk about the wrath of God in connection with the Christian.

Those who are saved by the blood of the Lamb do not suffer the wrath of the Lamb - whatever else they may suffer.

We, as children of God purchased by the blood of the Lamb, may suffer the wrath of Satan, the wrath of men, the wrath of nature but we will never participate in the wrath of the Lamb. Glory to God for His mercy!

Now it may seem that I am going to contradict what I just said, but that is not the case. However, this is a little difficult to follow. That is the reason the voice was repeated three times to me. The other phrase was the terror of the Lord. Christ the Lamb speaks of His saving work. Christ the Lord speaks of His ruling work. Paul said "For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ...knowing, therefore, the terror of the Lord we persuade men..." (2 Cor 5:10, 11). We persuade men to do what? To prepare for that day. Christian friend, are you ready to appear before the judgment seat of Christ? It is going to be a terror-filled day for the person who is not ready.

(Nah - nah - nah, you're thinking wrath again! That means your mind has not been renewed to the truth of the Scripture and you still operate with a sin-consciousness. You have not been grounded in grace. Read the first section again and then continue.)

Paul tells us that "...each of us shall give account of himself to God" (Rom 14:12). Christian friend, you and I have an appointment! We DO NOT want to appear before the Lord in that day with unconfessed or unforsaken sin in our lives. Live every day in the shadow of the Judgment Seat of Christ; not trying to make our own righteousness but constantly clothing ourselves in His righteousness. How? "If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness" (I Jn 1:9). "If we would judge ourselves, we would not be judged" (I Cor 11:31).

We are not talking about wrath. We are talking about the Master of the house rising up at the appointed hour and shutting the door to the wedding feast and the unprepared virgins (yes, they were all virgins) having to wait outside during the One Thousand Year Wedding Feast of the Lamb. Hear my bitterness and agony! My heart is breaking for my brothers and sisters: 1,000 years of tears! You will think you have died and gone to hell; the terror will be so great. That day can be a day of confidence. It can be a day of rejoicing. It will be a day of shame for many. Only our willful disobedience can rob us of the glorious entrance into His kingdom that Christ has purchased for every one of us. My dear Christian friend, don't appear before your loving Lord and Master unprepared.

http://davidestewart.com/wrath.htm






21 "Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter. 22 "Many will say to Me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?' 23 "And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; DEPART FROM ME, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS.' 24 "Therefore everyone who hears these words of Mine and acts on them, may be compared to a wise man who built his house on the rock. 25 "And the rain fell, and the floods came, and the winds blew and slammed against that house; and yet it did not fall, for it had been founded on the rock. 26 "Everyone who hears these words of Mine and does not act on them, will be like a foolish man who built his house on the sand. 27 "The rain fell, and the floods came, and the winds blew and slammed against that house; and it fell—and great was its fall."


Matthew 7:21-27








31 "But when the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the angels with Him, then He will sit on His glorious throne. 32 "All the nations will be gathered before Him; and He will separate them from one another, as the shepherd separates the sheep from the goats; 33 and He will put the sheep on His right, and the goats on the left.
34 "Then the King will say to those on His right, 'Come, you who are blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world. 35 'For I was hungry, and you gave Me something to eat; I was thirsty, and you gave Me something to drink; I was a stranger, and you invited Me in; 36 naked, and you clothed Me; I was sick, and you visited Me; I was in prison, and you came to Me.' 37 "Then the righteous will answer Him, 'Lord, when did we see You hungry, and feed You, or thirsty, and give You something to drink? 38 'And when did we see You a stranger, and invite You in, or naked, and clothe You? 39 'When did we see You sick, or in prison, and come to You?' 40 "The King will answer and say to them, 'Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did it to one of these brothers of Mine, even the least of them, you did it to Me.'
41 "Then He will also say to those on His left, 'Depart from Me, accursed ones, into the eternal fire which has been prepared for the devil and his angels; 42 for I was hungry, and you gave Me nothing to eat; I was thirsty, and you gave Me nothing to drink; 43 I was a stranger, and you did not invite Me in; naked, and you did not clothe Me; sick, and in prison, and you did not visit Me.' 44 "Then they themselves also will answer, 'Lord, when did we see You hungry, or thirsty, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not take care of You?' 45 "Then He will answer them, 'Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to Me.' 46 "These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life."


Matthew 25:31-40








7 When the thousand years are completed, Satan will be released from his prison, 8 and will come out to deceive the nations which are in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together for the war; the number of them is like the sand of the seashore. 9 And they came up on the broad plain of the earth and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city, and fire came down from heaven and devoured them. 10 And the devil who deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are also; and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.








11 Then I saw a Great White Throne and Him who sat upon it, from whose presence earth and heaven fled away, and no place was found for them. 12 And I saw the dead, the great and the small, standing before the throne, and books were opened; and another book was opened, which is the book of life; and the dead were judged from the things which were written in the books, according to their deeds. 13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead which were in them; and they were judged, every one of them according to their deeds. 14 Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire. 15 And if anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.


Revelation 20:7-11

















"And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the Judgment:"

Hebrews 9:27










Do You Need To Be Born Again?


Everybody talks about being "born again." But what does it mean? What happens if you are born again? How does this idea apply to you? Do YOU need to be born again? These important questions need answers.

First, Do YOU need to be born again?

If you are like the woman that once met Jesus at the well, then obviously you need to be born again. This woman had five different "husbands," and yet even the man she was living with at the time was not a legal husband to her (John 4:16-18). She needed a new life. She needed to start over again. She needed all her life of sin in the past to be wiped away. She needed to be "born again."

You may have a life of obvious sin in your past. Your conscience may accuse you right now of past sins - sins of immorality, sins of corruption in business, sins of brutality, even murder. But have hope! You can be born again! You can start life all over again. All your guilt for sins of the past can be wiped away, even though you may have to live with some of the consequences of your past sins. By the work of God's Spirit within you as he is sent from heaven by Jesus Christ you can have a totally new life. So if you have a life of obvious sin, you can still live in hope. You need to be born again, and you can be born again.

But interestingly, Jesus did not tell this sinful woman that she needed to be born again, even though she obviously had that need. Instead, Jesus tells a different person that it is absolutely necessary for him to be born again. Without any doubt this other person needed the new birth.

So who was he? What kind of person according to Jesus desperately needed to be born again? Who in the world of today needs to be born again?

It is the morally good person, the deeply religious person that must be born again! The teaching of Jesus often is filled with surprises. But it certainly comes as a great surprise when he tells the morally good person, the deeply religious person, that he must be born again.

The significance of this teaching should be obvious. If this kind of person needs to be born again, then every human being needs to be born again.

Who is this person? What was his life like? Why does Jesus tell him, of all the people, that he must be born again?

His name is Nicodemus, and he was a religious leader in his day. He lived a morally upright life. Yet he must have felt an emptiness in his soul, for he came to Jesus by night seeking to fill a void in his life.

Jesus gets right to the point. Nicodemus was a very good man when compared with other people. Yet he needed to start life all over again. Otherwise he could not even see the kingdom of God. Since he could not see God's kingdom, it would be totally impossible for him to enter it. For him there was only one hope - he must be born again. He must have a new nature that would be totally different from his current nature.

Actually Jesus says, "You must be born from above" (John 3:3). An action must be taken by God in heaven that is directed to the rebirth of your soul before you can even see God's kingdom. Even though you are a deeply religious, morally upright person, you must be born again.

Accept this truth. It is for your good. If a person has a sickness, it is much better for him to know that fact than to live without the knowledge. The sooner you find out you have heart disease, aids, malaria, tuberculosis, or cholera, the greater will be your hope of getting cured. So recognize the fact. Every person in this world needs to be born again. No one can even see the kingdom of God unless he is born a second time by the working of God's Holy Spirit in his soul. You need to be born again. You need a complete transformation in your soul.

Second, What must you do to be born again?

It's a natural question to ask. If your boat turns over in the middle of the lake, you want to know exactly what to do to save your life. You want to know whether to hold onto a piece of wood until help comes, or whether to swim for shore. You want to know exactly which way you ought to swim.

So if you must be born again to enter the kingdom of God, then what must you do? Do you need to spend all night in prayer? Do you need to fast for several days, eating no food and drinking no water? Do you need to attend church services every Sunday for a year or two so that you can be "born again"?

No, you need not do any of these things to be born from above. As a matter of fact you can do absolutely nothing to be born again. Jesus does not tell Nicodemus what he must do to be born again. He simply states the fact: "You must be born again." Jesus does not command Nicodemus, "Born yourself again." He does not give this command, because he would be commanding the impossible.

Think for a moment about your first birth. What did you do to cause yourself to be born the first time? What part did you play in causing yourself to be conceived in your mother's womb?

You did absolutely nothing! Like every other person who has ever lived, you did absolutely nothing to cause your first birth. No person who has ever lived on this earth has caused himself to be conceived in his mother's womb, or be born of her. It is a complete impossibility.

The same principle is at work every time someone is "born again." Most people totally misunderstand this teaching of Jesus. They think Jesus is telling Nicodemus what he must do if he decides that he wants to be born again. They conclude that Jesus teaches that if a person believes in Him, then he will be born again.

But that understanding of Jesus' words is totally wrong. Jesus does not tell this man what he must do to be born again. For Jesus knew that a person can do nothing to cause himself to be born again. This fact is plainly taught in one of the first verses of John's gospel, which says that the children of God were "born not of natural descent, nor of human decision or a husband's will, but born of God" (John 1:13). The teaching is plain. People are not born again to be children of God by human decision. Instead, it is of God and altogether of God that a person is born from heaven to be a child of God.



For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord. Romans 6:23
For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast. Ephesians 2:8,9






So what should you do? You should humble yourself before Almighty God. Acknowledge that you need to be remade into a totally new person because of the sin of your soul. Recognize that only God by his Holy Spirit sent from heaven can cause you to be born again. Stop trying to make yourself into a new creature. For only God can do this wondrous work in you.

Thirdly, What if you are "born again" by God's Spirit?

Some people will tell you unusual things. They will say that if you are "born again" you will "speak in tongues." They will say that the only proof that you have been born again of God's Spirit is that you utter strange sounds that even you yourself cannot understand.

But God's word says something entirely different. God's word says that all believers in Jesus Christ have been "baptized in the Holy Spirit," whether or not they have "spoken in tongues." The Apostle Paul plainly states: "We were all baptized by one Spirit into one body" (I Con 12:13). Every believer in Christ has been born again by the baptism of the Holy Spirit sent from heaven. But then Paul proceeds to indicate that not all believers have received the special gift of the Holy Spirit that once enabled some people to speak in foreign languages they had never learned. He asks a series of questions to the Corinthians. Each of these questions expects a "No" for an answer. He asks, "Not all are apostles, are they?" (The expected answer is obviously "No!") He asks, "Not all are prophets, are they?" (The expected answer is obviously "No!"). He asks, "Not everyone works miracles, do they?" (The expected answer is obviously "No!"). Then he asks, "Not everyone speaks in tongues, do they?" (The expected answer once more is obviously "No!") (I Cor. 12:29,30).

Not every believer in Christ is expected to "speak in tongues. "Yet every believer, according to the Apostle, has been baptized in the Holy Spirit. Otherwise they could not have been "born again."

So do not think that you cannot be born again unless you "speak in tongues." Do not think you must "speak in tongues" if you have been born again. You can be made into a new creature in Christ without ever displaying the special gift of "speaking in tongues."

But something else will always happen when a person is born again by the work of God's Holy Spirit. If you are born from above by the Spirit of God, you will begin your new life by acting just like a newborn baby. Just like a newborn, the first thing you will do is "cry out." That's when faith and repentance come into the picture. The first thing a newborn baby does is to cry out. The baby comes out of the darkness of its mother's womb and sees the light for the first time. The newborn infant blinks, closes its eyes and lets out a loud cry. So in the same way, the first thing a person does when he is born a second time is to cry out. He comes out of the darkness of a life of sin into the glorious light of Christ.

He blinks at the brilliance of that light, and he cries out to God, "Save me!" He recognizes his total dependence on God for the forgiveness of sins, and so he cries out in repentance for the wrong he has done.

He hears the message about Jesus the Savior of sinners, and entrusts himself totally to the Savior. From that point on he lives a different life - not a perfect life, not a life totally free from sin. But he is a new creation in Christ, and so he lives a different life.

What about you? Have you confessed that you are a sinner that deserves the judgment of God for your sins? Have you trusted J