Revelation 6

From: www.gracethrufaith.com


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Now I watched when the Lamb opened one of the seven seals, and I heard one of the four living creatures say with a voice like thunder, "Come!" and I looked, and behold, a white horse! And its rider had a bow, and a crown was given to him, and he came out conquering, and to conquer. (Rev 6:1-2)

The first of the seven seals is broken early in the 70th week of Daniel, after the church has disappeared. Liberal scholars often identify the rider of the white horse as the Lord Jesus, pointing to his crown and the fact that he's a conqueror. I think some part of their conclusion comes from watching all those TV westerns as kids, where the good guys always rode white horses. I say that because this rider is most definitely not Jesus. He's the anti-Christ.

What Makes You Think So?
In the first place he carries a bow. The Lord's weapon of choice is a sword. The reason he has no arrows is that he won't use force to make his initial impact on Earth. He comes as a peacemaker (Daniel 8:25). Since the Book of Revelation is filled with symbolism explained elsewhere in the Bible, I looked for the first mention of a man with a bow, hoping to get an additional clue to this rider's identity. I found it in Genesis 21:20, referring to Ishmael.

As details of Islamic eschatology become more widely known, prophecy students are discovering a striking similarity between descriptions of al Mahdi, a Messianic figure from the Shiite tradition, and a figure Christians call the anti-Christ. (I'm not saying that al Mahdi is the Moslem anti-Christ, called the Dajjal, but that he resembles the Christian ant-Christ.) Both come on the scene during a time of great turmoil on Earth, both come claiming a desire to restore peace, both have a seven year reign, both head a one world religion and one world government, both claim supernatural origins, and both reigns end in a battle between good and evil that brings Earth's final judgment.



The number of similarities between the two defies coincidence and continues to grow as knowledge of al Mahdi increases. Now with the connection between the Bible's first archer and the man with a bow in Rev. 6, another piece of the puzzle may have fallen into place. Mohammed was descended from Kedar, second son of Ishmael, and Al Mahdi is the 12th Iman descended from Mohammed. Jack Kinsella, in his commentary entitled "The Third Pillar of anti-Christ" makes an excellent case for Islam being the religion of anti-Christ. (The Omega Letter Intelligence Digest Vol: 53 Issue: 25 - Saturday, February 25, 2006 www.omegaletter.com) When you read it, you'll understand that after the Church is gone, those who also call themselves the church, but have been left behind, won't have much trouble at all accepting Islam. And like Paul said, the addition of a few "miracles" into the mix will be all it takes to deceive the whole world (2 Thes.2:9).



Got Anything Else?
In the second place this guy's wearing the wrong kind of crown. The Greek word for a king's crown is diadem. But this one wears a stephanos, or victor's crown. It was the award given to winners in the ancient Olympics and other public games. It was typically an ivy wreath, and in fact the word stephanos comes from a root meaning wreath. It identifies the wearer as a conqueror, but not as royalty. And in Revelation 13 where the Great Tribulation begins, we're told that He was given power to make war against the saints and to conquer them. And he was given authority over every tribe, people, language and nation. (Rev. 13:7) Why would Jesus make war with the tribulation saints to conquer them? Like I said, while he fools people into thinking he's the Christ, he's really the anti-Christ.

When he opened the second seal, I heard the second living creature say, "Come!" And out came another horse, bright red. Its rider was permitted to take peace from the earth, so that men should slay one another, and he was given a great sword. (Rev. 6:3-4)

This is the point at which the anti-Christ turns to war to establish his authority over human governments and move the world toward his religion. The Moslem prophecies say this will be Islam, of course, and the Koran teaches conversion or death as the only alternatives available to non-believers. Current studies speculate that Europe, far into its post Christian era, may already be on the verge of yielding to the growing Moslem influence, but other parts of the world will resist, causing much bloodshed.

If You Think This Is Bad …
Historically, the great sword was a long two-handed weapon wielded by mighty warriors who received double the average soldier's wage. With overwhelming strength they hacked their way through enemy lines, leaving a gaping hole for the regular troops who followed. In just this way the anti-Christ will use supernatural power to tighten his grip on the world, enforcing his will upon the people of Earth. And remember, the Seal judgments are just the beginning of Daniel's 70th week. The last half, called the Great Tribulation, is still to come and is significantly more deadly.

When he opened the third seal, I heard the third living creature say, "Come!" And I looked, and behold, a black horse! And its rider had a pair of scales in his hand. And I heard what seemed to be a voice in the midst of the four living creatures, saying, "A quart of wheat for a denarius, and three quarts of barley for a denarius, and do not harm the oil and wine!" (Rev 6:5-6)

Two things result when the world is plunged into uncertainty and wars erupt. First comes inflation, causing the prices of everything to skyrocket. When John wrote this, a denarius was the average pay for a day's work, and that's what it will cost to buy a quart of wheat, about enough food for one person for one day. Think of it. For many, a whole days wages will barely buy their food for that day. The next day it starts all over again. No money left for anything else.

Of course, the wealthy always benefit from inflation. When they see it coming, they're able to convert their wealth into things that are either inflation proof, or actually increase in value during periods of inflation. The earliest example of this is comes from the Book of Genesis, when Joseph, who gained control of the world's wheat supply on Pharaoh's behalf, eventually acquired the entire wealth of Egypt in exchange for it. That's what John meant by not harming the oil and wine, commodities that in his day were symbols of wealth. The vision he saw was famine amidst plenty. Both the Book of Daniel and the Moslem prophecies speak of the anti-Christ/al Mahdi showering lavish gifts on his followers while forcing his enemies into submission. (Daniel 11:39)

When he opened the fourth seal, I heard the voice of the fourth living creature say, "Come!" And I looked, and behold, a pale horse! And its rider's name was Death, and Hades followed him. And they were given authority over a fourth of the earth, to kill with sword and with famine and with pestilence and by wild beasts of the earth. (Rev. 6:7-8)

The second result of war is famine and pestilence. Crops and food processing facilities are destroyed. Transportation networks are disrupted. Dead bodies are left where they fall and public health systems break down. Mass starvation and rampant disease often claim more victims than the battles that caused them. Animals become desperate for food and attack humans. Some think the phrase "a fourth of the Earth" relates to geography and some think it describes the number of people involved. Either way, many will suffer and die during this time, while those not in the direct path of war will enjoy a false sense of peace and prosperity.

When he opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain for the word of God and for the witness they had borne. They cried out with a loud voice, "O Sovereign Lord, holy and true, how long before you will judge and avenge our blood on those who dwell on the earth?" Then they were each given a white robe and told to rest a little longer, until the number of their fellow servants and their brothers should be complete, who were to be killed as they themselves had been. (Rev. 6:9-11)

Just as the church has a fixed number to achieve before its time on Earth is fulfilled (Romans 11:25) so it is for believers who're martyred for their faith following the Church's disappearance.

An Eye For An Eye
In Hebrew the word translated "kinsman redeemer" also means "avenger of blood." The same next of kin who was responsible for buying a relative out of debt related servitude or redeeming his lost property, was also responsible for avenging physical attacks against a relative that resulted in death. The tribulation martyrs are calling for enforcement of this law.

Our Lord Jesus is our Kinsman Redeemer, come to pay our debts and buy back that which our father Adam lost. But He's also our Avenger of Blood, responsible for bringing to justice the one who maliciously murdered our first parents and therefore us. Everyone who sides with Satan, called those who dwell on the Earth in Revelation, will share his punishment, just as we who side with the Lord, called those who dwell in heaven, will share His inheritance.

When he opened the sixth seal, I looked, and behold, there was a great earthquake, and the sun became black as sackcloth, the full moon became like blood, and the stars of the sky fell to the earth as the fig tree sheds its winter fruit when shaken by a gale. The sky vanished like a scroll that is being rolled up, and every mountain and island was removed from its place. (Rev. 6:12-14)

As you would expect, since the Tsunami of 2004 scientists have been watching the recent spate of earthquakes and volcanic eruptions in the Far East very closely. They've found that during the three year period ending in 2005 when the study was conducted, the incidence of underwater quakes and volcanic eruptions had increased by 88% over the norm while continental earthquakes had gone up by 62%. In a single four month period the earth experienced the three largest earthquakes in the last two hundred years. Most of this increased activity came in the so-called Pacific Ring of Fire, a chain of 160 active volcanoes stretching from the East Asia rim to the West Coast of the Americas.

During the same time the magnetic North pole has begun drifting across Canada and is headed for Siberia. Also, the strength of the Earth's magnetic field has weakened noticeably, being about 10% weaker now than when scientists began measuring it in 1845. Based on these findings, some scientists are now convinced that a reversal of the Earth's magnetic poles is underway. They're predicting that in 2012 this reversal will be suddenly and dramatically completed with the North pole having the polarity of the South pole and vice versa.

In 2012 the Sun will also experience a polar reversal. Although the Sun's magnetic poles reverse every eleven years, the Earth has never experienced one in the memory of man. This double shift could produce even greater occurrences of massive quakes and volcanic eruptions of a magnitude that could actually cause a significant continental shift.

The Earth's magnetic field helps protect us against harmful rays from the sun, and a polar reversal could cause this field to collapse just like the water vapor canopy around the earth collapsed at the time of the Great Flood. That event brought violent weather and drastically shortened life spans.

The effects of a magnetic field collapse would be even more severe. According to some projections, the electromagnetic energy released from the sun during a polar reversal could cause Earth's upper atmosphere to "erupt in flames" if our magnetic field isn't there to deflect it. Was John referring to this in saying the sky vanished like a scroll being rolled up? No one knows. We can only imagine what a sudden reversal of magnetic poles would do to life on Earth. Predictions range all the way from a temporary increase in the frequency and severity of volcanic eruptions and earthquakes to a worldwide disaster of "Biblical proportions." The convergence of other prophetic timelines leads me to believe that the 6th Seal Judgment might very well be John's description of this coming dual Magnetic Polar Reversal.

Who Invited Them?
What's more, in 2005 a branch of Orthodox Judaism announced that their messiah figure (not Jesus) would arrive in 7 years. That's 2012. And 2012 is one of those "hot button" dates in occult and new age prophecies. The ancient Mayan calendar ends in December of 2012, and pagans view this as a sign that this age is coming to an end, and our utopian future is just over the horizon. The internet is bulging with websites on the subject, so be careful as you research this critical date. And above all, remember that the Rapture of the Church comes in Revelation 4. Revelation 6 happens after we're gone.

Then the kings of the earth and the great ones and the generals and the rich and the powerful, and everyone, slave and free, hid themselves in the caves and among the rocks of the mountains, calling to the mountains and rocks, "Fall on us and hide us from the face of him who is seated on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb, for the great day of their wrath has come, and who can stand?" (Rev. 6:15-17)

It's no surprise that verse 15 is reminiscent of Joshua 10:16. Of the 404 verses in Revelation, 280 are taken from the Old Testament. As they hide, the kings of the Earth unknowingly utter a prophecy we should all read carefully. "The great day of their wrath has come, and who can stand?" This passage has always been associated with the beginning of God's wrath. The view that His wrath begins with the bowl judgments of Revelation 16 is a newcomer to studies of prophecy, and is incorrect. The Wrath of God begins in chapter 6, placing the Pre-Wrath Rapture of the Church in Chapter 4, right where pre-Trib Rapture believers have seen it all along.

Next time we'll see the first group of 144,000 (there are two and they're not the same) the arrival of an enormous group of Tribulation martyrs in Heaven, the completion of the Seal Judgments, and the beginning of round two, the Trumpet Judgments.


.................................benny

Benny,

Thank you bro. Your onto something.

QUOTE

Now I watched when the Lamb opened one of the seven seals, and I heard one of the four living creatures say with a voice like thunder, "Come!" and I looked, and behold, a white horse! And its rider had a bow, and a crown was given to him, and he came out conquering, and to conquer. (Rev 6:1-2)

The church does not disappear before the tribulation. One problem with pretribber's is that if they are still here then according to them we are not in tribulation. If there is a pretrib rapture, then surely there is a scripture that shows us that Christ returns "before" the tribulation. I have never seen such a scripture. Have you?



This rider wears a "victors crown" (stephanos) whereas Jesus wears a "royal crown" (diadem) denoting unversal dominion. The Lord is never associated with a bow.

Good catch bro. Ishmael and Esau are two of the few people in the bible where a bow is personnally ascribed to them. The only other two that I found were Joseph and Elisha. I found this out about 7 years ago and was quite astonished when I did. But I can tell you, this rider is not the antichrist. He may be the false prophet who may be bin laden, and the first seal may be symbolic of "holy war".

Bin laden has been considering whether or not he is the Mahdi. And since the Mahdi is suppose to have the name of the prophet Muhammed, bin laden has since changed his name to Osama bin Muhammed bin Laden. Also. Now think about Islam and "holy war". A bow is symbolic of evil conquest and designs, and "a struggle against much travail in order to obtain a goal".

Another thing about the bow. In Strong's it mentions the bow as a simple fabric. I have seen some Greek manuscripts that translate the word as "bough". A little unusual considering the Sept 11 hijackers have worn turbans.



The antichrist is not revealed until later in the book of Revelation.

One major argument between the Shia's and Sunni's is...Who will welcome the Mahdi when he returns.
Ahmadinejad believes that he is the one who will usher in the Mahdi by invading Israel and by bringing the region into all out war and great chaos and turmoil.

But beware. The Mahdi, or I should say the antichrist will reign over ten Muslim nations. The world will not see a global dictator or a one world religion. There will not be a pretrib rapture and you will be here to see the rise of the ten nation Islamic confederacy. The world will not convert to Islam. Only those within his ten nation kingdom will be required to submit to the man of sin. Muslim's will have no problem with this as long as they don't apostasize to another religion like christianity.




About Kedar.
Saudi Arabia is even mentioned in Jeremiah 49:33 (Kedar and Hazor) by NAME which will suffer destruction. Iran (Persia or Elam) will suffer destruction as well with her (Jeremiah 49:34-39) which fits with the Gog of Ezekiel 38 since Persia is included. As well as Isaiah 13 fits Jeremiah's prophecies. Who do you think the "glory of Kedar" is...Mecca!

For thus hath the Lord said unto me, Within a year, according to the years of an hireling, and all the glory of Kedar shall fail:



In Exodus 39, we see that crowns were worn by high priest. They were a plate of gold that was tied around the head with a ribbon. As I researched crowns, I found that crowns developed into turbans. (Smith's bible dictionary) Most could not afford the gold plates and thus you have a turban. Bin laden has been crowned as the symbol of holy war.



And also if the rider of the white horse is Jesus, why is it that everything that follows is bad?

QUOTE

When he opened the second seal, I heard the second living creature say, "Come!" And out came another horse, bright red. Its rider was permitted to take peace from the earth, so that men should slay one another, and he was given a great sword. (Rev. 6:3-4)

Just as the bow is the most significant item of the first seal, the "sword" is the best symbolic identification mark of the rider of this red horse. Sword is also a much more common biblical term than the bow. I believe all four of these riders are of Muslim. The words "sword and swords" is used 444 times in the bible. The sword also has extensive literal and symbolic use in the koran and among Muslims. Isn't it interesting that in the very scriptures that bring to us the "Muslim" four horsemen, the sword is mentioned 444 times! Could we consider this to be symbolic of the sword of Allah? Since I believe the rider of the white horse is bin laden. It may surprise you that this rider may be Saddam Hussein.

Some Greek translations of the word sword in this passage indicate an extremely large sword, creating some confusion among scholars as of it's interpretation. You may have seen footage of Saddam pulling a large six foot sword out of a sheath. It was given to him. It is concievable that the combined military might of many Arab nations could also be given to him in an alliance (ten nation kingdom) to destroy Israel. (Psalm 83) This Islamic/Arab coalition which I believe is now in the workings, would certainly take peace away from the earth. Since I believe Saddam is the beast, (subject to change) there are many reasons why I think he is the man of sin. Remember. There were five Saddams!



There are Muslim neighborhoods in France where the police will not go into without a military escort of armored vehicles.

QUOTE

When he opened the third seal, I heard the third living creature say, "Come!" And I looked, and behold, a black horse! And its rider had a pair of scales in his hand. And I heard what seemed to be a voice in the midst of the four living creatures, saying, "A quart of wheat for a denarius, and three quarts of barley for a denarius, and do not harm the oil and wine!" (Rev 6:5-6)

The pair of balances is a good indicator of this riders identity. I also sense that "See thou hurt not the oil and the wine," has hidden meanings within it other than famine.


In Vines expository dictionary, balances is in Greek, '' zugos.'' This is what he say's. " A yoke, also has the meaning of a pair of scales. Serving to couple two things together, is used (metaphorically,(a) of submission to authority, Matt.11 ; 29, 30, ( of bondage Acts 15 :10 and Gal.5 ; 1 © of bondservice to masters, 1 Timothy 6 : 1 and (2) to denote a balance. Rev 6: 5."

Serving to couple two things together...Maybe this is the unification of the Shia and Sunni sects of Islam. You know...by peace he will destroy many!

Compare these scriptures to the coming yoke by an Arab alliance in Psalm 83 and to the yoke that is imposed by the antichrist who is refered to as "the King of Babylon." (Saddam)
Isaiah 10:27 14:25 47:6 Jeremiah 27 vs. 8, 11, 12, 28:2 and 28:4, 30:8. Many of these references are to the "king of Babylon." These supportive scriptures continue to add more weight to the truth of the Arab/Muslim origin of the four horsemen.



Food shortages are certainly one the way and that's why I urge people to start storing food. We know how much food we need to store because we know how long tribulation is.



I believe this seal describes the effects of Islamic persecution and abominations of the earth. They will kill with "Sword". Well, we already know how Muslim's like to behead people. To kill with famine. The Muslim's have already done that in the Sudan etc. Large shipments of food were stolen and they used famine as a weapon against Sudanese christians etc.

To kill with pestilence. Biological weapons. And Saddam use to inject people with disease and chemicals just to watch them go through a slow death. When the Muslim's invade and once again recapture East Jerusalem and oust the US from the region, persecution will be the highlight of their mission of "conquering and to conquer". They will use disease as a weapon.

And by the beast of the earth. Let's just say the Muslim's will re-institute the age old amphitheater style type of entertainment of throwing people to the lions. These things will happen within the ten nation Islamic empire of the beast.

QUOTE

When he opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain for the word of God and for the witness they had borne. They cried out with a loud voice, "O Sovereign Lord, holy and true, how long before you will judge and avenge our blood on those who dwell on the earth?" Then they were each given a white robe and told to rest a little longer, until the number of their fellow servants and their brothers should be complete, who were to be killed as they themselves had been. (Rev. 6:9-11)

Altar is symbolic of "paradise". These souls are christians who are waiting for Christ return. They are the souls of them who have passed on since the last resurrection when Christ rose.
We do not go to heaven when we die. That's another big shot blunder.
If you can. Post a scripture that say's we go to heaven after we die. It doesn't exist!


Listen to the words spoken in 2 Baruch 48: 37 in relevance to terror and Islam.

" Envy shall rise in those who had no though of themselves, and passion shall rise in him who was peaceful. Many shall be stirred up in anger to injure many, and they shall rouse up all men in order to shed blood, and in the end they will all perish together."

This is a prophecy of the evil designs of Islam, holy war, and also the Palestinian terror network.

2 Baruch 70: 2-8 say's " They shall hate one another, and they shall provoke one another to fight. Some of them shall fall in battle, and some of them shall perish in anguish, and some of them shall be destroyed by their own."

KP

The little horn will be a Middle East Islamic

The scriptures tell this without question by identification and location

But the symbol of the white horse and rider depicts a prevalent "condition" of the tribulation period .... the Lord's continued offer of salvation during His hour of trial against unbelief

A few will turn, repent, and will be saved and of these most will be killed in the tribulation period

A few will be protected for his purposes .... all of these will be a few believing national Israelites

Most humans will remain against the Lord and His purposes during the period, will not repent, and will be killed and lost forever

The other parallel conditions of the tribulation period symbolized in the other 5 seals are intense warfare, economic collapse and results, mass human death, martyrdom of those who become believers during the period, and the unrepentant human reaction to the Lord's wrath against them

The 7th seal is a short condition of silence in heaven just before the Lord triggers His judgments which begin in chapter 8

The scroll of the actual judgment events will not open until all of the seals are removed by the Lord

Any one who knows what a scroll is knows this fact

The seals themselves are symbolic and a preview of His coming wrath against the unbelieving inhabiters of the earth

The 24 elders and the great multitude will be with the Lord and around the throne, will observe His removal of the seals, and then the actual tribulation events on the earth

These believers are already in the heavenly state of existence with their immortal bodies

None of these will be subjected to the Lord's wrath during the tribulation period on the earth

They will have come out from "away from" His vengence and wrath upon an intransigent unbelieving world

He has no need to bring His wrath upon living believers at the time ..... and He will not
This truth the scriptures tell by all of the related passages on this issue

Gideon said,

To get the answers as to who the four horsemen are, one must look in the old testament to them there and get a better understanding of who these are. They are sent from God, as it appears in the old testament. The white horse is definately not Christ as he comes in the end of the tribultation. He does not come before the tribulation.

Gideon said,

No, the scriptures tell us indisputably that the little horn must be America. We see in Daniel Chapter 7 the events play out well, and very clearly. IF you would like to have this explained to you just ask, but it seems quite evident, that the US, France, Britain, Spain, and the ancient nations of the Roman empire are seen here.
it.


Dan 7:7 After this I saw in the night visions, and behold a fourth beast, dreadful and terrible, and strong exceedingly; and it had great iron teeth: it devoured and brake in pieces, and stamped the residue with the feet of it: and it [was] diverse from all the beasts that [were] before it; and it had ten horns.


Dan 7:8 I considered the horns, and, behold, there came up among them another little horn, before whom there were three of the first horns plucked up by the roots: and, behold, in this horn [were] eyes like the eyes of man, and a mouth speaking great things.


Dan 7:9 ¶ I beheld till the thrones were cast down, and the Ancient of days did sit, whose garment [was] white as snow, and the hair of his head like the pure wool: his throne [was like] the fiery flame, [and] his wheels [as] burning fire.


Dan 7:10 A fiery stream issued and came forth from before him: thousand thousands ministered unto him, and ten thousand times ten thousand stood before him: the judgment was set, and the books were opened.


Dan 7:11 I beheld then because of the voice of the great words which the horn spake: I beheld [even] till the beast was slain, and his body destroyed, and given to the burning flame.


Dan 7:12 As concerning the rest of the beasts, they had their dominion taken away: yet their lives were prolonged for a season and time.


Dan 7:13 ¶ I saw in the night visions, and, behold, [one] like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days, and they brought him near before him.


Dan 7:14 And there was given him dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that all people, nations, and languages, should serve him: his dominion [is] an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom [that] which shall not be destroyed.


Dan 7:15 ¶ I Daniel was grieved in my spirit in the midst of [my] body, and the visions of my head troubled me.


Dan 7:16 I came near unto one of them that stood by, and asked him the truth of all this. So he told me, and made me know the interpretation of the things.


Dan 7:17 These great beasts, which are four, [are] four kings, [which] shall arise out of the earth.


Dan 7:18 But the saints of the most High shall take the kingdom, and possess the kingdom for ever, even for ever and ever.


Dan 7:19 Then I would know the truth of the fourth beast, which was diverse from all the others, exceeding dreadful, whose teeth [were of] iron, and his nails [of] brass; [which] devoured, brake in pieces, and stamped the residue with his feet;


Dan 7:20 And of the ten horns that [were] in his head, and [of] the other which came up, and before whom three fell; even [of] that horn that had eyes, and a mouth that spake very great things, whose look [was] more stout than his fellows.


Dan 7:21 I beheld, and the same horn made war with the saints, and prevailed against them;


Dan 7:22 Until the Ancient of days came, and judgment was given to the saints of the most High; and the time came that the saints possessed the kingdom.


Dan 7:23 ¶ Thus he said, The fourth beast shall be the fourth kingdom upon earth, which shall be diverse from all kingdoms, and shall devour the whole earth, and shall tread it down, and break it in pieces.


Dan 7:24 And the ten horns out of this kingdom [are] ten kings [that] shall arise: and another shall rise after them; and he shall be diverse from the first, and he shall subdue three kings.


Dan 7:25 And he shall speak [great] words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.


Dan 7:26 ¶ But the judgment shall sit, and they shall take away his dominion, to consume and to destroy [it] unto the end.


Dan 7:27 And the kingdom and dominion, and the greatness of the kingdom under the whole heaven, shall be given to the people of the saints of the most High, whose kingdom [is] an everlasting kingdom, and all dominions shall serve and obey him.

Totally incorrect

None of your picks are noted in the visions of the Bible prophets

Your knowledge of the Bible prophets' visions is very limited and innacurate

And your view is one of wild speculations

Those you identify are not even named at all in scripture

Now I see why you have such a faulty view of end time exegesis

Better return to the scriptures for correct understanding

Benny, I say this with a heavy Heart, and a hope that one day you can "set aside" the doctrines and traditions of Men to be able to view the pure Word of God. I would be very carefull where you draw your information from.

[/indent] The above post ASSUMES AND CONCLUDES THAT EVERYTHING IN THE SEALS, TRUMPETS, AND VIALS OF THE WRATH OF GOD, ARE ALL THE Lord's judgement. The very Scripture they quote proves otherwise. In the fifth seal, the souls under the altar ask a very profound question... "How long O Lord, will you not judge!. hOW CAN THE SEALS BE PART OF THE LORDS JUDGEMENTS??? This clearly proves that they ARE NOT! Here is yet another scripture that one must "overlook" to establish a doctrine othere than what the Word of God states.

QUOTE

Rev 14:7...."Saying with a loud voice, FEAR GOD, AND GIVE GLORY TO HIM: FOR THE HOUR OF HIS JUDGMENT IS COME......"

[indent] THE PROCLAMATION OF GOD'S JUDGMENT GOING FORTH, DOESN'T EVEN OCCUR UNTILL THE 14TH CHAPTER

. Everything that occurs PRIOR TO the vials of the wrath of God being poured out, is NOT God's Judgement! Have events gotten Bad? Absolutely!! We have witnessed 1/4 of Humanity suffer in the seals, followed by 1/3 in the trumpets. Things are getting progressively Worse. These are the " birthpains" Jesus spoke of!!! these will lead to the 42 month reign of the false Messiah, which is THEN followed by the Proclamation of God's Judgement being poured out in His wrath, on those who have accepted the false as the true!! We are NOT destined for God's wrath, but what occurs in the time of JACOB'S TROUBLE, Is not God's wrath being poured out!

My understanding is that it will be a five month period of tribulation (deception) but other than that....I agree Joshleet. God's wrath is after the tribulation of Satan.

Gideon siad,

Once the eternal security of the beleiver becomes a reality to you and an understanding as it is in scripture, then you may have some interpretation of some prophecies; but until then, it is best for you to sit by, watch, listen, and learn.

I sometimes wonder if we are "beating a dead horse". I don't know why one gets so offended, and they feel like one is being personally attacked, when all we are trying to do, is to Help open their eyes of understanding. It shows How Powerful deception can be, or it is perhaps, one is dealing with some, that isn't supposed to have their eyes opened. They Have eyes, but don't see......... The Lord don't want any to Perish, but one must also have a teachable Spirit......

That's true Josh but I believe the things we are saying now will pay off for them in the future. Many are blinded now for a reason but in the last days the Holy Spirit will testify through the elect. Then the things we have said will hit home with them. Hopefully, it will be before the doors are closed.

Gideon said,

Stephen, you understand the delusional state one can be in when you see the antichrist and come the realization that you are still hear on earth.

Greetings in the name of Jesus:

Now let me say: that those who speak in Truth of Gods words, do speak to bring about Gods will.

And those who, seek to bring about Gods will, do then seek all, to Commune and fellowship in Love and cooperation in tune with the word. Its not about us, But about Gods words, And Gods truth.

"Reprove not a scorner, lest he hate thee: rebuke a righteous man, and he will love thee."

So any who gives a vision or interpretation, and yet does not have love and charity, and a desire for fellowship that all might feel Gods love and wisdom, is not really in tune with God.

God is not the Author of confusion.

So all posts and vision, should be also given with a dose of Love and charity and desire for fellowship; then We all shall all be blessed for it.

I would tell you, what Gods vision of prophesies are, as God reveals unto me, but I feel, its not about finding Gods truths, in This room, but about people proving they are right, and they discern of Gods words in truth. Which No man can discern of himself, Lest God gives it unto you.

I have my test as to those who discern: one must discern . As it is written.

"Whom shall he teach Knowledge? and whom shall he make to understand doctrines? them that are weaned from the milk, and drawn from the breasts.

One must discern the Little things of God first, if one cannot discern the Little things, then Neither can he Know or discern the big things.

I pray my words do not offend, God bless All Christians in forum, and all those who use it.

Spiritofprophecy,

There was not one offensive word in what you said, and I for one will take heed to those words. God bless you brother.

In Jesus name,

James

Thanks so much for the "reminder"... one plants, one waters, but its the Lord that has to bring the increase!! I should KNow better, Also! My BAD!!! You reminded me that the Holy Spirit told me, many will not realize what is actually going on, untill they find themselves in the middle of It!! God Bless!!