Christian-Forum.net > The New World Order

Here Am I

Oct 4 2008, 07:43 PM

Humble Bob

Oct 4 2008, 09:43 PM

Here Am I,

I get the impression you're only just finding out how the Vatican and the RCC is this diabolical machine (personally, for several years now, I think it is mysterious Babylon the whore from Revelation ). Is my impression correct? It's only becuase of the many postings I've notice from you on the RCC.

Just wondering

Love HB

Here Am I

Oct 5 2008, 05:05 AM

QUOTE (Humble Bob @ Oct 4 2008, 09:43 PM)

Here Am I,

I get the impression you're only just finding out how the Vatican and the RCC is this diabolical machine (personally, for several years now, I think it is mysterious Babylon the whore from Revelation ). Is my impression correct? It's only becuase of the many postings I've notice from you on the RCC.

Just wondering

Love HB

Hello HB,

Your impression is incorrect; it's been about 25 years. I am glad to see you are aware, though, but in all the months I have been on this forum, I don't recall you ever commenting on this issue until now. Why? Have you ever happened to notice how many, even on this forum, have no idea who is controlling government, religion, politics, education, media, THE ECONOMY... even the very protestant church they're attending? Do you realize how many millions of Roman Catholics all over the world are deceived? Do you think we should just keep this information to ourselves... or should we take the time to expose it for the evil and wickedness that it is? (Eph.5:11)

http://www.vaticanassassins.org/kolvenbach.htm

Here Am I

Nov 11 2008, 09:01 PM

diverteach

Nov 11 2008, 09:42 PM

Shortly after the current Pope took his place guess who became his top advisor?

It isn't GOD!

Henry Kissinger. a man part of the CFR, Bilderberger group, AND the Illuminati. Has been for decades.

Here Am I

Nov 11 2008, 09:49 PM

QUOTE (diverteach @ Nov 11 2008, 09:42 PM)

Shortly after the current Pope took his place guess who became his top advisor?

It isn't GOD!

Henry Kissinger. a man part of the CFR, Bilderberger group, AND Illuminati.the Has been for decades.

KISSINGER = 666

John Prewett

Nov 11 2008, 11:49 PM

QUOTE (diverteach @ Nov 12 2008, 09:42 AM)

Shortly after the current Pope took his place guess who became his top advisor?

It isn't GOD!

Henry Kissinger. a man part of the CFR, Bilderberger group, AND the Illuminati. Has been for decades.

Thank you for sharing that information. I believe you. Its perfecly sensible/feasible.

When I share it with others, someone is bound to request more source of the information.

Please also share whateve source for that information that you can.

Thanks ! JP

John Prewett

Nov 11 2008, 11:53 PM

QUOTE (Humble Bob @ Oct 5 2008, 09:43 AM)

...................... the Vatican and the RCC is this diabolical machine

(personally, for several years now,

I think it is mysterious Babylon the whore from Revelation ).................................................

Amen. And a most important piece of the puzzle.

John Prewett

Nov 12 2008, 12:07 AM

QUOTE (diverteach @ Nov 11 2008, 09:42 PM)

Shortly after the current Pope took his place guess who became his top advisor?

It isn't GOD!

Henry Kissinger

A man part of the CFR, Bilderberger group, AND Illuminati.

Has been for decades.

QUOTE (Here Am I @ Nov 12 2008, 09:49 AM)

KISSINGER = 666

Amen. Another important piece of the puzzle.

John Prewett

Nov 12 2008, 12:13 AM

Israel like a small earth island in the vast Gentile sea.

2 "beast" of Rev 13

First beast from sea will be a Gentile.

Second beast from earth will be a Jew.

English is the worlds single most "international" language.

"666" stands for a man's name" Rev 13

A 1x6=6
B 2X6=12
C3X6=18
and so on

ADD K+I+S+S+I+N+G+E+R= 666

diverteach

Nov 12 2008, 12:31 AM

QUOTE (John Prewett @ Nov 11 2008, 10:49 PM)

QUOTE (diverteach @ Nov 12 2008, 09:42 AM)

Shortly after the current Pope took his place guess who became his top advisor?

It isn't GOD!

Henry Kissinger. a man part of the CFR, Bilderberger group, AND the Illuminati. Has been for decades.

Thank you for sharing that information. I believe you. Its perfecly sensible/feasible.

When I share it with others, someone is bound to request more source of the information.

Please also share whateve source for that information that you can.

Thanks ! JP

Famous quote " The New World Order cannot happen without U.S. participation, as we are the most significant single component. Yes, there will be a New World Order, and it will force the United States to change its perceptions. Just like Zishan says."

http://www.mega.nu:8080/ampp/bilderberg.html

http://www.fdrs.org/henry_kissinger_and_the_illuminati.html

http://www.whale.to/b/kissinger_w.html

http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?con...;articleId=4022

http://www.infowars.com/articles/occult/po...pal_adviser.htm

Kissinger, in His Own Words
Kissinger

"Military men are just dumb stupid animals to be used as pawns in foreign policy." - Henry Kissinger, quoted in "Kiss the Boys Goodbye: How the United States Betrayed Its Own POW's in Vietnam"
"I can think of no faster way to unite the American people behind George W. Bush than a terrorist attack on an American target overseas. And I believe George W. Bush will quickly unite the American people through his foreign policy.''-Henry Kissinger, appearing on CNBC, 13th Dec 2000

"I don't see why we need to stand by and watch a country go communist due to the irresponsibility of its people. The issues are much too important for the Chilean voters to be left to decide for themselves."
-- Henry Kissinger, Secretary of State under Richard Nixon, about Chile prior to the CIA overthrow of the democratically elected government of socialist President Salvadore Allende in 1973

"Why should we flagellate ourselves for what the Cambodians did to each other?"
-- Henry Kissinger - who (with Richard Nixon) was responsible for the massive bombing of Cambodia in 1973, which killed three-quarters of a million peasants and disrupted Cambodian society, setting the stage for Pol Pot to come to power and ultimately kill another one-and-a-half million people

"Covert action should not be confused with missionary work."
-- Henry Kissinger, commenting on the US sellout of the Kurds in Iraq in 1975

"The illegal we do immediately. The unconstitutional takes a little longer."
--Henry Kissinger

"Wouldn't have mattered very much. If the Vietnam domino had fallen then, no great loss."
-- Henry Kissinger, when asked "What if the United States had allowed Vietnam to go communist after World War II?"

“Corrupt politicians make the other ten percent look bad.”
-Henry Kissinger

Power is the ultimate aphrodisiac.
– Henry Kissinger, 56th U.S. Secretary of State and 1973 Nobel Prize-Winner for Peace

Today Americans would be outraged if U.N. troops entered Los Angeles to restore order; tomorrow they will be grateful. This is especially true if they were told there was an outside threat from beyond, whether real or promulgated, that threatened our very existence. It is then that all peoples of the world will plead with world leaders to deliver them from this evil. The one thing every man fears is the unknown. When presented with this scenario, individual rights will be willingly relinquished for the guarantee of their well being granted to them by their world government.
– Henry Kissinger

http://www.crossroad.to/articles2/006/teic...on-strategy.htm

Not surprisingly, an American-European approach to global order already exists under the Transatlantic Alliance heading. Over the years, this alliance has been greatly shaped by men such as Brzezinski, Henry Kissinger, and John J. McCloy on the US side – and by key Europeans such as Paul-Henri Spaak, Jacques Delors and Javier Solana.

John Prewett

Nov 12 2008, 03:49 AM

QUOTE (diverteach @ Nov 12 2008, 09:42 AM)

Shortly after the current Pope took his place guess who became his top advisor?

It isn't GOD! Henry Kissinger. a man part of the CFR, Bilderberger group,

AND the Illuminati. Has been for decades.

QUOTE (John Prewett @ Nov 12 2008, 11:49 AM)

Thank you for sharing that information. I believe you. Its perfecly sensible/feasible.

When I share it with others, someone is bound to request more source of the information.

Please also share whateve source for that information that you can.

Thanks ! JP

I appreciate the leads you provided in post 11.

I followed up on them [a little bit].

There is dispute over whether or not Kissinger is an "official" advisor.

But there is no dispute that he had a private meeting with the pope,

and no doubt gave his "advice."

Kissinger was also "invited to speak to the academy at the Vatican."

Interested folks can do some Google work and decide for themself.

For starters, search engine: "la stampa italy newspaper Kissinger"

following is from a Roman Catholic source:

Pope didn’t ask Kissinger to be advisor, Vatican says
By Cindy Wooden 12/4/2006
Catholic News Service (www.catholicnews.com)

VATICAN CITY (CNS) – Pope Benedict XVI does not have a foreign affairs advisory board, and he has not asked
former U.S. Secretary of State Henry Kissinger to become one of his advisers, the Vatican spokesman said.

Jesuit Father Federico Lombardi said it is true that Kissinger met privately with the pope Sept. 28
and that Mary Ann Glendon, a U.S. law professor and president of the Pontifical Academy of Social Sciences,
has invited Kissinger to speak to the academy at the Vatican in late April.

"Those are the only two concrete facts," Father Lombardi told Catholic News Service.

Articles in Italian and U.S. newspapers reporting that the pope had asked Kissinger
to become an adviser or consultant "are without any foundation," he said Dec. 4.

A New York-based correspondent for the Italian newspaper La Stampa wrote Nov. 4 that Kissinger
had told an "important member of the Italian government" of the papal offer and that "a diplomatic source"
at the Vatican had confirmed that "an important dialogue is under way" between the pope and Kissinger.

The rumor has been circulating in newspapers and on the Internet since the newspaper article was published.

Here Am I

Nov 12 2008, 08:54 AM

QUOTE (John Prewett @ Nov 12 2008, 12:07 AM)

QUOTE (diverteach @ Nov 11 2008, 09:42 PM)

Shortly after the current Pope took his place guess who became his top advisor?

It isn't GOD!

Henry Kissinger

A man part of the CFR, Bilderberger group, AND Illuminati.

Has been for decades.

QUOTE (Here Am I @ Nov 12 2008, 09:49 AM)

KISSINGER = 666

Amen. Another important piece of the puzzle.

EOTWAWKI1961

Nov 12 2008, 12:28 PM

It's good to see there is only a small handful that believes this falsehood about HK and JFK taking over the world. rotflmao I hope that someday your eyes will open to the truth and you will finally see just how absurd your claims are. There is absolutely not scriptural support for JFK and HK being the beast and false prophet of Revelation. Nor is there any scriptural support for MBG's great whore representing the RCC. I hope and pray that no one else is deceived and lead astray by these false claims.

God's Blessings!!

Rob

Stephen

Nov 12 2008, 12:59 PM

"It's good to see there is only a small handful that believes this falsehood about HK and JFK taking over the world. rotflmao I hope that someday your eyes will open to the truth and you will finally see just how absurd your claims are. There is absolutely not scriptural support for JFK and HK being the beast and false prophet of Revelation. Nor is there any scriptural support for MBG's great whore representing the RCC. I hope and pray that no one else is deceived and lead astray by these false claims"

>This is absolutely true

John Prewett

Nov 12 2008, 06:41 PM

QUOTE (EOTWAWKI1961 @ Nov 13 2008, 12:28 AM)

It's good to see there is only a small handful that believes this falsehood about HK and JFK taking over the world. rotflmao I hope that someday your eyes will open to the truth and you will finally see just how absurd your claims are. There is absolutely not scriptural support for JFK and HK being the beast and false prophet of Revelation. Nor is there any scriptural support for MBG's great whore representing the RCC. I hope and pray that no one else is deceived and lead astray by these false claims.

God's Blessings!!
Rob

QUOTE (Stephen @ Nov 13 2008, 12:59 AM)

"It's good to see there is only a small handful that believes this falsehood about HK and JFK taking over the world. rotflmao I hope that someday your eyes will open to the truth and you will finally see just how absurd your claims are. There is absolutely not scriptural support for JFK and HK being the beast and false prophet of Revelation. Nor is there any scriptural support for MBG's great whore representing the RCC. I hope and pray that no one else is deceived and lead astray by these false claims"

>This is absolutely true

Just wanted both of you to know your skepticism is duly noted.

Neither of you have need to worry about large numbers of people agreeing with me

[and whoever else is in the small handful] about JFK and HK ........

............ until the "beast" public reappearance "amazes the world" ..............

Even then the majority of the wolrd will hail the supreme "beast"/JFK as a world savior sent from God.

[later/quickly the lost will be convinced he was not sent by God, ... but rather IS God]

Its no wonder the prediction/claim that JFK is/will be the final "beast" seems so outlandish to you.

You fellows currently cannot even see that the Vatican/papacy is the Great Whore,
and the Vatican/papacy is right out in the open. In plain view.

You fellows can't even see what is as plain as the noses on your faces.

You fellows can't even see the coming of the literal, global "marking" that is plainly coming.

[plainly because the technology making it feasible has been in place and in use for decades]

7Surely the Lord GOD will do nothing,
but he revealeth his secret unto his servants the prophets.

8The lion hath roared, who will not fear?
the Lord GOD hath spoken, who can but prophesy?
Amos 3

5And they, whether they will hear, or whether they will forbear,
(for they are a rebellious house,)
yet shall know that there hath been a prophet among them.

7But the house of Israel will not hearken unto thee;
for they will not hearken unto me:

for all the house of Israel are impudent and hardhearted.

8Behold, I have made thy face strong against their faces,
and thy forehead strong against their foreheads.

9As an adamant harder than flint have I made thy forehead:

fear them not, neither be dismayed at their looks,
though they be a rebellious house.

Ezekiel 1,2

Stephen

Nov 12 2008, 07:17 PM

You are stuck in the traditional interpretations of the reformers JP

There is no literal scriptural support for your speculation

And it does not matter how many others do the same

JFK, the pope, and the RCC are not named or identified in scripture

One would guess that you are steeped in a combination of SDA theology and conspiracy theories

The problem with your behavior here is that you are telling things that the Bible is not in agreement with and when what you say does not happen this makes a mockery of christianity

Wild speculation without Biblical support is one of the main reasons why the Bible and Jesus Christ are rejected by onlookers who do not believe

Learn truth by the scriptures and the Lord's guidance alone

Then re-direct your zeal to the business of teaching the truth

Countless individuals have done and do what you are doing and have and will ended up in total failure

You make think what you are doing is worth the risk of getting lucky with you calls, but you had better think again

Bible prophecy is nothing to fool around with and the Lord will not tolerate those who add to and take away from His Word

John Prewett

Nov 12 2008, 07:32 PM

QUOTE (Stephen @ Nov 13 2008, 07:17 AM)

You are stuck in the traditional interpretations of the reformers JP

There is no literal scriptural support for your speculation

And it does not matter how many others do the same

JFK, the pope, and the RCC are not named or identified in scripture

One would guess that you are steeped in a combination of SDA theology and conspiracy theories

The problem with your behavior here is that you are telling things that the Bible is not in agreement with and when what you say does not happen this makes a mockery of christianity

Wild speculation without Biblical support is one of the main reasons why the Bible and Jesus Christ are rejected by onlookers who do not believe

Learn truth by the scriptures and the Lord's guidance alone

Then re-direct your zeal to the business of teaching the truth

Countless individuals have done and do what you are doing and have and will ended up in total failure

You make think what you are doing is worth the risk of getting lucky with you calls, but you had better think again

Bible prophecy is nothing to fool around with and the Lord will not tolerate those who add to and take away from His Word

So if you are right about everything,

then when you are "raptured", and I am among the "left behind,"

[Is "left behind" copyrighted ?

I hope it is OK to say "left behind" without LeHaye permission]

As I was saying,

if you are "raptured" and I am "left behind,"

you might be allowed to look down on the terrible fix I'll be in

and gleefully crow to bystanders, "I told him so, I told him so".

Isn't that something to look forward to ?

Stephen

Nov 12 2008, 07:45 PM

No it is not

There will be weeping and nashing of teeth [Matthew 25:1-3]

Does this passage of scripture convey "suddenness" and with no warning .... or do you really think this is an ending event of the tribulation period?

Who would not be ready after experiencing a time of unprecedented trouble on the earth?

Your post-tribulation "rapture" theory makes no sense ar all when compared with the Lord's discourse here

Not only that, but your thinking matchess none of all of the realted scriptures on the subject either .... none

You have managed to convince yourself right into the tribulation period

No one else is accountable but JP

Those who have distorted views of Bible prophecy all have disdain for the Lord's sudden and early call for the church .... out right hatred in fact

There is a reason for it

Do you know why?

EOTWAWKI1961

Nov 12 2008, 09:04 PM

QUOTE (John Prewett @ Nov 12 2008, 07:32 PM)

QUOTE (Stephen @ Nov 13 2008, 07:17 AM)

You are stuck in the traditional interpretations of the reformers JP

There is no literal scriptural support for your speculation

And it does not matter how many others do the same

JFK, the pope, and the RCC are not named or identified in scripture

One would guess that you are steeped in a combination of SDA theology and conspiracy theories

The problem with your behavior here is that you are telling things that the Bible is not in agreement with and when what you say does not happen this makes a mockery of christianity

Wild speculation without Biblical support is one of the main reasons why the Bible and Jesus Christ are rejected by onlookers who do not believe

Learn truth by the scriptures and the Lord's guidance alone

Then re-direct your zeal to the business of teaching the truth

Countless individuals have done and do what you are doing and have and will ended up in total failure

You make think what you are doing is worth the risk of getting lucky with you calls, but you had better think again

Bible prophecy is nothing to fool around with and the Lord will not tolerate those who add to and take away from His Word

So if you are right about everything,

then when you are "raptured", and I am among the "left behind,"

[Is "left behind" copyrighted ?

I hope it is OK to say "left behind" without LeHaye permission]

As I was saying,

if you are "raptured" and I am "left behind,"

you might be allowed to look down on the terrible fix I'll be in

and gleefully crow to bystanders, "I told him so, I told him so".

Isn't that something to look forward to ?

Not for me. It's not something I would look forward to and i don't think it's something any others would look forward to either. I pray someday soon you will realize just how adsurb your idea of JFK and HK ruling the world sounds. If you're going to pick a dead president (with a wound to the head) to be the Beast of Revelation, at least pick one who could be classified as the Assyrian, like Saddam Hussein. If you're going to pick a former Secretary of State to be the False Prophet, at least pick someone a little younger like Colin Powell or even Condoleezza Rice (She will be a former Secretary of State soon).

God's Blessings!!

Rob

John Prewett

Nov 13 2008, 01:37 AM

Bear this in mind fellows,

A billion or so people allegedly believe the pope is the Head of Jesus's Church.

Maybe a billion or so believe Mohammed, not Jesus, is the real voice of God.

Maybe nearly billion or so Hindus, Buddhist, Animist, etc.

Maybe a billion or so people think they are "christian"

but if being a Christian was outlawed,

there wouldn't be enough evidence to indict them. Much less convict them.

Maybe a couple of billion functional atheist/agnostics and assorted non believers.

Point is: if I am "deluded/decieved" re my conviction that JFK and HK are the two final "beast" of the Rev,

then I would be deluded/decieved along with about 6 billion others,

and at least,

I know that I call it the way I saw/see it,.... Nobody, that is NO MAN

persuaded me that JFK would be the final "beast" or that HK would be his #1 cheerleader.

[much less made that conviction the driving force in my life for 35 years]

I knew the Vatican is the Great Whore 8 YEARS before

I found out other people, past and present, shared that knowledge.

Stephen

Nov 13 2008, 07:52 AM

You say that you know what you do .... but you have no scriptural support for it

So .... you do not know

I also think that you have picked this theory up from others who came long before you

The Lord does not reveal any secret knowledge to anyone outside of His Bible and the scope of the prophetic writings contained

There is a breach in the prophetic scope and time line of the visions of the Bible prophets between fulfilled events of the ancient past and those that will transpire at the time of the end

Nothing of earthly events from about 33 A.D. forward to this very day is in view

And this means that the RCC and the popes, etc are not either

The scriptures only refer to christian apostasy in general and human intransigence on a broad scale

The visions for the time of the end focus upon national Israel and the surrounding nations of the Middle East specifically

This geographical Asian territory is not pope land

All of the outer nations who have and will come against the inhabitants of the Middle East have and will fail

Rome is in the dust bin of history .... yet the Islamic nations of the Middle East remain

The pre-Islamic worshipers of Allah existed long before there ever was an RCC

These were and still are the Assyrians, Babylonians, Persians, etc. of the ancient Middle Eastern past

Rome is gone .... and national Israel still exists even after millennia of time lapse

There is a reason why the Lord has preserved this Middle Eastern setting

To bring about His intended purposes at the end of this present age

The Bible tells it .... and one can count on it

These things are the witness and testimony to the validity of the scriptures that need to be conveyed to those who do not believe

Not wild speculations and related and continued focus upon of the failures of reformation theology regarding its application to the prophetic scriptures

Prophetic truths contained in scripture are signed and sealed factual evidence of the validity of the Lord's Word

When one goes about corrupting the purity of these things with extra-biblical speculation this can cause much doubt for those who look on

bogoy

Nov 13 2008, 10:21 AM

ya'll still for the monster huh?.. take a look in the mirror, take a close look and you'll see the monster

that is within us all

Humble Bob

Nov 13 2008, 10:34 AM

The Vatican shall one day be engulfed in flames, a terrible fire will consume St. Peter's Basillica. The seat of the Roman Catholic Church will be destroyed.

Look for it's coming, when Pope Benedict passes away, soon.

Stephen

Nov 13 2008, 10:36 AM

Take your junk and post it somewhere else

EOTWAWKI1961

Nov 13 2008, 10:53 AM

QUOTE (Humble Bob @ Nov 13 2008, 10:34 AM)

The Vatican shall one day be engulfed in flames, a terrible fire will consume St. Peter's Basillica. The seat of the Roman Catholic Church will be destroyed.

Look for it's coming, when Pope Benedict passes away, soon.

When you make bold predictions, that have no scriptural support. You are in effect playing with fire. You know what happens when you play with fire?....you get burned.

God's Blessings!!

Rob

Stephen

Nov 13 2008, 11:08 AM

Revelation 8 [burning mountain], 17 [destroyed by the beast and the 10 other kings], and 18 [a financial, economic, trading nation, and central world market place] gives the destruction of the great city [the mill stone] of the Gentiles ...... and is far more reaching and a completely unrleated description of anything like the Vatican

Jack777

Nov 13 2008, 11:38 AM

QUOTE (Humble Bob @ Nov 13 2008, 10:34 AM)

The Vatican shall one day be engulfed in flames, a terrible fire will consume St. Peter's Basillica. The seat of the Roman Catholic Church will be destroyed.

Look for it's coming, when Pope Benedict passes away, soon.

I have not read about this in the Bible. Please explain how you know this.

EOTWAWKI1961

Nov 13 2008, 12:01 PM

QUOTE (Jack777 @ Nov 13 2008, 11:38 AM)

QUOTE (Humble Bob @ Nov 13 2008, 10:34 AM)

The Vatican shall one day be engulfed in flames, a terrible fire will consume St. Peter's Basillica. The seat of the Roman Catholic Church will be destroyed.

Look for it's coming, when Pope Benedict passes away, soon.

I have not read about this in the Bible. Please explain how you know this.

That's because it's not mentioned in the Bible. Does the term "taken with a grain of salt" mean anything to you?

God's Blessings!!

Rob

Humble Bob

Nov 13 2008, 05:22 PM

QUOTE (Jack777 @ Nov 13 2008, 08:38 AM)

QUOTE (Humble Bob @ Nov 13 2008, 10:34 AM)

The Vatican shall one day be engulfed in flames, a terrible fire will consume St. Peter's Basillica. The seat of the Roman Catholic Church will be destroyed.

Look for it's coming, when Pope Benedict passes away, soon.

I have not read about this in the Bible. Please explain how you know this.

It is in scripture.

Just the same the economic collapse is in scripture, but most people don't recognize it where in Revelation it is and would say it's not in scripture. And when I said it was there were others who would also say "take your junk elsewhere," but now there is news today of the economy collapsing and to deny it further will only bring it to utter ruin.

Because God will show to all there are no coincidences, that events are not random, that man's wisdom is his foolishness, that God is real and in control.

For it is just the same with the plagues of the past that man had blasphemed and still did not repent. That is why this one will be the worse.

So, when the Vatican burns one day the world will be astonished and amazed and will cry. It will be news, and when I see it on CNN or Fox or NBC being reported live I will remember that it is as scripture had said it would be, but anyone else who doesn't think so will be shocked and full of fear and wonder.

Stephen

Nov 13 2008, 05:38 PM

Can you give the scripture that specifies the destruction of the Vatican?

Humble Bob

Nov 13 2008, 05:49 PM

Revelation 17:16

Stephen

Nov 13 2008, 07:13 PM

I do not see the name "vatican" in Revelation 17 at all ..... anywhere

Do you think that Revelation 18 is a description of the vatican?

I am against the apostate teaching of the RCC and many other sects of professing christianity, but this is not the vatican:

Revelation
18:1 And after these things I saw another angel come down from heaven, having great power; and the earth was lightened with his glory.

18:2 And he cried mightily with a strong voice, saying, Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and is become the habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird.

18:3 For all nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, and the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her, and the merchants of the earth are waxed rich through the abundance of her delicacies.

18:4 And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.

18:5 For her sins have reached unto heaven, and God hath remembered her iniquities.

18:6 Reward her even as she rewarded you, and double unto her double according to her works: in the cup which she hath filled fill to her double.

18:7 How much she hath glorified herself, and lived deliciously, so much torment and sorrow give her: for she saith in her heart, I sit a queen, and am no widow, and shall see no sorrow.

18:8 Therefore shall her plagues come in one day, death, and mourning, and famine; and she shall be utterly burned with fire: for strong is the Lord God who judgeth her.

18:9 And the kings of the earth, who have committed fornication and lived deliciously with her, shall bewail her, and lament for her, when they shall see the smoke of her burning,

18:10 Standing afar off for the fear of her torment, saying, Alas, alas that great city Babylon, that mighty city! for in one hour is thy judgment come.

18:11 And the merchants of the earth shall weep and mourn over her; for no man buyeth their merchandise any more:

18:12 The merchandise of gold, and silver, and precious stones, and of pearls, and fine linen, and purple, and silk, and scarlet, and all thyine wood, and all manner vessels of ivory, and all manner vessels of most precious wood, and of brass, and iron, and marble,

18:13 And cinnamon, and odours, and ointments, and frankincense, and wine, and oil, and fine flour, and wheat, and beasts, and sheep, and horses, and chariots, and slaves, and souls of men.

18:14 And the fruits that thy soul lusted after are departed from thee, and all things which were dainty and goodly are departed from thee, and thou shalt find them no more at all.

18:15 The merchants of these things, which were made rich by her, shall stand afar off for the fear of her torment, weeping and wailing,

18:16 And saying, Alas, alas that great city, that was clothed in fine linen, and purple, and scarlet, and decked with gold, and precious stones, and pearls!

18:17 For in one hour so great riches is come to nought. And every shipmaster, and all the company in ships, and sailors, and as many as trade by sea, stood afar off,

18:18 And cried when they saw the smoke of her burning, saying, What city is like unto this great city!

18:19 And they cast dust on their heads, and cried, weeping and wailing, saying, Alas, alas that great city, wherein were made rich all that had ships in the sea by reason of her costliness! for in one hour is she made desolate.

18:20 Rejoice over her, thou heaven, and ye holy apostles and prophets; for God hath avenged you on her.

18:21 And a mighty angel took up a stone like a great millstone, and cast it into the sea, saying, Thus with violence shall that great city Babylon be thrown down, and shall be found no more at all.

18:22 And the voice of harpers, and musicians, and of pipers, and trumpeters, shall be heard no more at all in thee; and no craftsman, of whatsoever craft he be, shall be found any more in thee; and the sound of a millstone shall be heard no more at all in thee;

18:23 And the light of a candle shall shine no more at all in thee; and the voice of the bridegroom and of the bride shall be heard no more at all in thee: for thy merchants were the great men of the earth; for by thy sorceries were all nations deceived.

18:24 And in her was found the blood of prophets, and of saints, and of all that were slain upon the earth.

John Prewett

Nov 13 2008, 07:33 PM

33
Stephen-I do not see the name "vatican" in Revelation 17 at all ..... anywhere
____________________________________________________________

Do you see the name "Jesus" in the OT ?

Jack777

Nov 13 2008, 07:39 PM

QUOTE (EOTWAWKI1961 @ Nov 13 2008, 12:01 PM)

QUOTE (Jack777 @ Nov 13 2008, 11:38 AM)

QUOTE (Humble Bob @ Nov 13 2008, 10:34 AM)

The Vatican shall one day be engulfed in flames, a terrible fire will consume St. Peter's Basillica. The seat of the Roman Catholic Church will be destroyed.

Look for it's coming, when Pope Benedict passes away, soon.

I have not read about this in the Bible. Please explain how you know this.

That's because it's not mentioned in the Bible. Does the term "taken with a grain of salt" mean anything to you?

God's Blessings!!

Rob

Seems he is serious. Are you saying he is kidding or off his trolly? I know it is not in the Bible. I asked him, but please let me know what your answer for him means.

Stephen

Nov 13 2008, 07:44 PM

The Bible is one book PJ

Your question is mute

Who do you think inspired the entire Bible?

Who's book is it?

Do you even know who the Lord is?

Who do you think the "Lord" is in the O.T. ?

How could you even begin to propose what you do if you cannot understand who Jesus Christ is?

The vatican, the Pope, and the RCC are not identified in the scriptures of the Bible

...... the Lord is present throughout the entire Bible

Your speculations are nothing but imaginary thoughts

John Prewett

Nov 13 2008, 08:18 PM

QUOTE (Stephen @ Nov 14 2008, 07:44 AM)

The Bible is one book PJ

THE BIBLE IS MANY BOOKS

Your question is mute

YOU DECLINED TO ANSWER THE QUESTION

Who do you think inspired the entire Bible?

HMMMMM, THATS A TOUGH ONE. GOD, maybe ?

Who's book is it?

THE ONE I GOT ON MY DESK IS MINE. ALL MINE.

Do you even know who the Lord is?

HMMM, MAYBE JESUS ?

Who do you think the "Lord" is in the O.T. ?

DO YOU SEE THE NAME "JESUS" ? AS IN EXPLICITYLY "LORD JESUS" ?

How could you even begin to propose what you do if you cannot understand who Jesus Christ is?

WHAT I CAN'T UNDERSTAND IS WHY YOU ARE SO BLIND TO SOME PLAIN FULFILLMENT

OF REVELATION PREDICTIVE SCRIPTURE THAT HAS BEEN SEEN FOR CENTURIES

BY MANY SAINTS WHO WERE A LOT MORE SPIRIT LED THAN YOU.

THEY WERE AS SPIRIT LED AS YOU IMAGINE YOU ARE

The vatican, the Pope, and the RCC are not identified in the scriptures of the Bible

THEY ARE VISIBLY, VERIFIABLY, AND UNIQUELY DESCRIBED.

WHEREAS YOUR "LOST HUMANITY" DOESN'T EVEN COME CLOSE TO FITTING THE DESCRIPTION.

..... the Lord is present throughout the entire Bible

IS THE EXPLICIT NAME "JESUS" FOUND IN THE OT ?

DOES OT SCRIPTURE SAY:

"THE MESSIAHS NAME WILL BE JESUS, adopted SON OF JOSEPH, SON OF MARY"?

Your speculations are nothing but imaginary thoughts

OPINION DULY NOTED

Humble Bob

Nov 13 2008, 08:44 PM

I've said who I believe is the whore of Babylon and I've wrote it in as succinct words as possible. All I can add is that I believe it is God who knows the truth because it is only God who can prove all things. But here's your chance to tell me, if you like, who you believe is the whore, Stephen, because I have not read where you had wrote who you think is the whore, and I would like to know.

I've only read from you "This" or "That" is in the Bible or "that is not in the Bible," which I can do as well. But I have not read what you think.

So tell me, who do you think is the whore of Babylon? Who do you think Revelation 17 speak of?

Love HB

Jack777

Nov 13 2008, 09:13 PM

I don't think you know how evil works, evil as the Hebrew defines it. The Roman Catholic Church is not and won't be the whore of Babylon. Do not be deceived by not paying attention. The last Pope is said to be named Peter. He will come after this one. God has His hand on the Roman Catholic Church keeping it from apostasizing. I know their misdeeds, same ones the Protestants have on their record. You will know as a Christian when the Roman Catholic Church apostasizes. They may indeed be taken over by infidels or something worse.

The groundwork for trouble is being laid with good intentions in all organized religion, not just the Vatican. To me it is amazing any Christian would make common cause with a Muslim on true spiritual grounds, but everybody is doing it and all with good intentions.

The Mormons are by definition apostate, why pick on the Roman Catholics? There may be a good argument for attributing the appellation of whore of Babylon to them but the Episcopal Church is a better candidate if you go by keeping a religious tally card for apostasy. Mainline Christianity is all but totally apostasized except for the Southern Baptists and Roman Catholics.

John Prewett

Nov 13 2008, 10:15 PM

QUOTE (Jack777 @ Nov 14 2008, 09:13 AM)

I don't think you know how evil works, evil as the Hebrew defines it. The Roman Catholic Church is not and won't be the whore of Babylon. Do not be deceived by not paying attention. The last Pope is said to be named Peter. He will come after this one. God has His hand on the Roman Catholic Church keeping it from apostasizing. I know their misdeeds, same ones the Protestants have on their record. You will know as a Christian when the Roman Catholic Church apostasizes. They may indeed be taken over by infidels or something worse.

The groundwork for trouble is being laid with good intentions in all organized religion, not just the Vatican. To me it is amazing any Christian would make common cause with a Muslim on true spiritual grounds, but everybody is doing it and all with good intentions.

The Mormons are by definition apostate, why pick on the Roman Catholics? There may be a good argument for attributing the appellation of whore of Babylon to them but the Episcopal Church is a better candidate if you go by keeping a religious tally card for apostasy. Mainline Christianity is all but totally apostasized except for the Southern Baptists and Roman Catholics.

I presume you really believe the pope, aka "Holy Father" [same for all 200plus popes] is the head of Jesus's Church.

If he is not, then what does that make the pope ?

Of course all organized religion is false.

The Great Whore has a lot of children.

[what "church" proudly claims to be the "mother church" ?]

"very rich, shed blood of martyrs, reigns over kings, city of 7 [small] mountains, world wide influence, gaudy colorful costumes, a whore that thinks she is a holy pure bride," hmmmmmmmmm, who could this be ?

Stephen

Nov 13 2008, 10:22 PM

"The Great Whore has a lot of children"

Very true .... a world full of them

>Your answers are all slippery JP

>You know fully well what I am talking about in response to a comparative of the Lord's presence throughout all scripture .... and your false view of the vatican named in scripture

>The Lord is ever present .... the vatican is not named there, and only a part of human apostasy and intransigence .... many organized religions are apostate ..... in fact most

>Get up to date JP .... your theology is old and moldy

>All of professing christianity is riddled with apostasy

>Very little genuine belief exists today

>This ending is a biblical projection of profound truth

>MBG is "symbolic" and describes the Lord's view of an entire world of intransigence and unbelief

>This was the condition before the flood

>The Lord judged

>This is the condition today

>The Lord's wrath is pent up

>His judgment is coming again

>The earth will have a dominating core "great city" part at the time of the end

>Cities are composed of collective humanity

>The first were built shortly after the flood

>"Babel" was one of the first

>Hence the symbol of "Babylon"

>The "city" of collective humanity is the problem

>Cities grew into city states, the nations, and the empires

>This idea was construed in order to escape the Lord's providence and control over His creation

>Humans collect in order to create their own self sufficiency and self governing .... apart from the Lord

>The same is done today .... on a grand worldwide scale .... MBG

>The Lord hates this behavior and He will to seek to destroy all nations and their cities at the time of the end during the tribulation period

>His first judgment will be against the great central and core city [collective nation] of the Gentiles

>This is not the vatican [Revelation 17 and 18 describes much more]

>If we are close to the time of the end and the Lord begins His hour of trial soon, this is undoubtedly the USA today

>If He tarries longer, it could be another of the same stature

>He will use satan's beast and his followers to destroy this financial, economic, and commercial trading center of the earth

>This civilization is described in Revelation 18

>HB has heard me state this same interpretation numerous times on this forum, but still questions

...... there you are again ..... just for you

Here Am I

Nov 13 2008, 10:22 PM

QUOTE (John Prewett @ Nov 13 2008, 10:15 PM)

The Great Whore has a lot of children.

[what "church" proudly claims to be the "mother church" ?]

"very rich, shed blood of martyrs, reigns over kings, city of 7 [small] mountains, world wide influence, gaudy colorful costumes, a whore that thinks she is a holy pure bride," hmmmmmmmmm, who could this be ?

Stephen

Nov 13 2008, 10:33 PM

City building began shortly after the flood.

Gen 11:1 And the whole earth was of one language, and of one speech.
Gen 11:2 And it came to pass, as they journeyed from the east, that they found a plain in the land of Shinar; and they dwelt there.
Gen 11:3 And they said one to another, Go to, let us make brick, and burn them throughly. And they had brick for stone, and slime had they for morter.
Gen 11:4 And they said, Go to, let us build us a city and a tower, whose top [may reach] unto heaven; and let us make us a name, lest we be scattered abroad upon the face of the whole earth.
Gen 11:5 And the LORD came down to see the city and the tower, which the children of men builded.
Gen 11:6 And the LORD said, Behold, the people [is] one, and they have all one language; and this they begin to do: and now nothing will be restrained from them, which they have imagined to do.
Gen 11:7 Go to, let us go down, and there confound their language, that they may not understand one another's speech.
Gen 11:8 So the LORD scattered them abroad from thence upon the face of all the earth: and they left off to build the city.
Gen 11:9 Therefore is the name of it called Babel; because the LORD did there confound the language of all the earth: and from thence did the LORD scatter them abroad upon the face of all the earth.

The first kings and their cities:

Nimrod builds Babel in the Land of Shinar (southern Iraq)
Gen 10:8 And Cush begat Nimrod (descendant of Ham): he began to be a mighty one in the earth.
Gen 10:9 He was a mighty hunter before the LORD: wherefore it is said, Even as Nimrod the mighty hunter before the LORD.
Gen 10:10 And the beginning of his kingdom was Babel (Babylonian), and Erech, and Accad, and Calneh, in the land of Shinar.

Asshur builds Nineveh in the Land of Magog (northern Iraq)
Gen 10:11 Out of that land went forth Asshur (descendant of Shem), and builded Nineveh (Assyrian), and the city Rehoboth, and Calah,
Gen 10:12 And Resen between Nineveh and Calah: the same [is] a great city.

The last great city in the world and all of the other cities at the time of the end:

Destruction of the great city early in the tribulation (see Revelation 8:7-12)
Rev 18:1 And after these things I saw another angel come down from heaven, having great power; and the earth was lightened with his glory.
Rev 18:2 And he cried mightily with a strong voice, saying, Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and is become the habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird.
Rev 18:3 For all nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, and the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her, and the merchants of the earth are waxed rich through the abundance of her delicacies.
Rev 18:4 And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.
Rev 18:5 For her sins have reached unto heaven, and God hath remembered her iniquities.
Rev 18:6 Reward her even as she rewarded you, and double unto her double according to her works: in the cup which she hath filled fill to her double.
Rev 18:7 How much she hath glorified herself, and lived deliciously, so much torment and sorrow give her: for she saith in her heart, I sit a queen, and am no widow, and shall see no sorrow.
Rev 18:8 Therefore shall her plagues come in one day, death, and mourning, and famine; and she shall be utterly burned with fire: for strong [is] the Lord God who judgeth her.
Rev 18:9 And the kings of the earth, who have committed fornication and lived deliciously with her, shall bewail her, and lament for her, when they shall see the smoke of her burning,
Rev 18:10 Standing afar off for the fear of her torment, saying, Alas, alas, that great city Babylon, that mighty city! for in one hour is thy judgment come.
Rev 18:11 And the merchants of the earth shall weep and mourn over her; for no man buyeth their merchandise any more:
Rev 18:12 The merchandise of gold, and silver, and precious stones, and of pearls, and fine linen, and purple, and silk, and scarlet, and all thyine wood, and all manner vessels of ivory, and all manner vessels of most precious wood, and of brass, and iron, and marble,
Rev 18:13 And cinnamon, and odours, and ointments, and frankincense, and wine, and oil, and fine flour, and wheat, and beasts, and sheep, and horses, and chariots, and slaves, and souls of men.
Rev 18:14 And the fruits that thy soul lusted after are departed from thee, and all things which were dainty and goodly are departed from thee, and thou shalt find them no more at all.
Rev 18:15 The merchants of these things, which were made rich by her, shall stand afar off for the fear of her torment, weeping and wailing,
Rev 18:16 And saying, Alas, alas, that great city, that was clothed in fine linen, and purple, and scarlet, and decked with gold, and precious stones, and pearls!
Rev 18:17 For in one hour so great riches is come to nought. And every shipmaster, and all the company in ships, and sailors, and as many as trade by sea, stood afar off,
Rev 18:18 And cried when they saw the smoke of her burning, saying, What [city is] like unto this great city!
Rev 18:19 And they cast dust on their heads, and cried, weeping and wailing, saying, Alas, alas, that great city, wherein were made rich all that had ships in the sea by reason of her costliness! for in one hour is she made desolate.
Rev 18:20 Rejoice over her, [thou] heaven, and [ye] holy apostles and prophets; for God hath avenged you on her.
Rev 18:21 And a mighty angel took up a stone like a great millstone, and cast [it] into the sea, saying, Thus with violence shall that great city Babylon be thrown down, and shall be found no more at all.
Rev 18:22 And the voice of harpers, and musicians, and of pipers, and trumpeters, shall be heard no more at all in thee; and no craftsman, of whatsoever craft [he be], shall be found any more in thee; and the sound of a millstone shall be heard no more at all in thee;
Rev 18:23 And the light of a candle shall shine no more at all in thee; and the voice of the bridegroom and of the bride shall be heard no more at all in thee: for thy merchants were the great men of the earth; for by thy sorceries were all nations deceived.
Rev 18:24 And in her was found the blood of prophets, and of saints, and of all that were slain upon the earth.

Destruction of the land area where the great city once stood and of all of the other cities in the world during the battle of Armageddon (see Ezekiel 38:19-20). The Lord revisits the great city's continent (double unto her double) and the rest of the cities in the world with the greatest earthquake since humans have been on the earth.

Rev 16:17 And the seventh angel poured out his vial into the air; and there came a great voice out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, It is done.
Rev 16:18 And there were voices, and thunders, and lightnings; and there was a great earthquake, such as was not since men were upon the earth, so mighty an earthquake, [and] so great.
Rev 16:19 And the great city was divided into three parts, and the cities of the nations fell: and great Babylon came in remembrance before God, to give unto her the cup of the wine of the fierceness of his wrath.

Humble Bob

Nov 13 2008, 10:34 PM

QUOTE (Stephen @ Nov 13 2008, 07:22 PM)

"The Great Whore has a lot of children"

Very true .... a world full of them

>Your answers are all slippery JP

>You know fully well what I am talking about in response to a comparative of the Lord's presence throughout all scripture .... and your false view of the vatican named in scripture

>The Lord is ever present .... the vatican is not named there, and only a part of human apostasy and intransigence .... many organized religions are apostate ..... in fact most

>Get up to date JP .... your theology is old and moldy

>All of professing christianity is riddled with apostasy

>Very little genuine belief exists today

>This ending is a biblical projection of profound truth

>MBG is "symbolic" and describes the Lord's view of an entire world of intransigence and unbelief

>This was the condition before the flood

>The Lord judged

>This is the condition today

>The Lord's wrath is pent up

>His judgment is coming again

>The earth will have a dominating core "great city" part at the time of the end

>Cities are composed of collective humanity

>The first were built shortly after the flood

>"Babel" was one of the first

>Hence the symbol of "Babylon"

>The "city" of collective humanity is the problem

>Cities grew into city states, the nations, and the empires

>This idea was construed in order to escape the Lord's providence and control over His creation

>Humans collect in order to create their own self sufficiency and self governing .... apart from the Lord

>The same is done today .... on a grand worldwide scale .... MBG

>The Lord hates this behavior and He will to seek to destroy all nations and their cities at the time of the end during the tribulation period

>His first judgment will be against the great central and core city [collective nation] of the Gentiles

>This is not the vatican [Revelation 17 and 18 describes much more]

>If we are close to the time of the end and the Lord begins His hour of trial soon, this is undoubtedly the USA today

>If He tarries longer, it could be another of the same stature

>He will use satan's beast and his followers to destroy this financial, economic, and commercial trading center of the earth

>This civilization is described in Revelation 18

>HB has heard me state this same interpretation numerous times on this forum, but still questions

...... there you are again ..... just for you

So, are you saying the whore of Babylon is all of civilization? I would like a clear and simple answer because I do not understand what you're saying otherwise.

Stephen

Nov 13 2008, 10:46 PM

HB,

MBG is a symbolic term used in scripture to describe all of lost humanity

"Babel" is the root definition

A city built by Nimrod in the Middle East shortly after the flood

The Lord's coming judgment [His hour of trial] is coming against the entire world of unbelief of those who refuse to believe the truth about Him

This scope is far greater that just the pope, the vatican, and the RCC membership

In fact, Islam has surpassed the RRC membership today and the churches of Europe are empty

Fundamental protestant christianity also has much apostasy laced within its bounds

All other religions are also intransigent and apostate .... and so are those of no religion who do not believe that God exists

The more detailed biblical view:

There are seven stages of the kingdoms of lost humanity (symbol of the woman in Revelation 17 and 18) recorded in the scope of Bible prophecy. The time frame begins with development shortly after the flood and ends with a worldwide condition at the time of the end. Five of the stages are historical and the scope is limited to the Middle East. The two remaining stages are future and the scope is both worldwide and Middle Eastern. The Lord first reveals his view of lost humanity in the process of organizing for self determined separation from Him by building cities shortly after the flood in the Middle East. He then reveals this same condition existing at the time of the end on a global scale and His related actions to eliminate it. [Genesis 10:10-11, 11:1-9] [Revelation 17,18]

The visions and records of the O.T. prophets provide details of all seven stages with focus on the Middle East, and the Book of Revelation notes all seven providing a broader view of last two which includes the Middle East specifically and the rest of the world in general. There is a break in the scope of all of the visions between the 5th and 6th stages and this period of human history is not included in the scope of the visions. The condition of lost humanity is expanded in Revelation and includes a great city and all of the other cities in the world at the end of this present age. The picture is one of the great city connected with all others on a global scale. [Daniel 2:31-45, 7:3-27,] [Revelation 17,18]

The term kingdom implies a human king position (government) ruling over a geographical territory with human inhabitants representing the extents of the king’s dominion or control over the area. The seven stages of these kingdoms are referred to as mountains upon which the woman, the condition of lost humanity, sits. The change from one stage to the next indicates the change in human government, or ruling authority. All of these seven stages noted are Middle Eastern oriented. [Daniel 2:31-45, 7:3-27,] [Revelation 17]

These stages are also referred to as the seven heads (dominions) of the beast. This description adds another factor and indicates satanic rule over each. Satan has entered into and has become the god of lost humanity. He does this by and through a structure of other powers and principalities who rebelled with him against God long ago and they are the fallen angelics who worship Satan as god. [Daniel 10:20-21] [Revelation 12:3-17, 9:1-2, 9:11, 9:15-16, 11:7, 13:4, 17:8-14]

The particular beast represented in Revelation is Abaddon-Apollyon, the destroyer, and angelic king of the abyss. He is also seen in Daniel’s visions as the little horn, the last human king of the north in the Middle East. He is both because he becomes the little horn by incarnation and full possession. He once ruled five dominions of the past in the Middle East and will come out of the abyss to rule his next two in succession there at the time of the end. [Daniel 7:8 7:19-20, 8:9, 8:23-25, 9:26, 11:36-45, 12:7]

The scope of the visions of five of the stages of lost humanity of the past is limited to the Middle East and includes Satan’s primary dominions of the Land of Magog, and the next four successors of this geographical area which included Assyrian, neo-Babylonian, Persian, and northern Greek rule. Each dominion expanded in size until Alexander’s Asian empire was divided resulting in a smaller northern dominion ruled by a successor general. The last Greek king to hold the king position in the scope of visionary prophecy was Antiochus IV. [Daniel 2, 7, 8:3-8, 11:2-4, 11:21-35]

Alexander is noted as a “great horn” because of the extent and size of His initial dominion. The next ruler of a diminished kingdom noted in this vision is the "little horn" of the time of the end. He is noted as a little horn because his dominion will be small at first, and it will include the ancient Land of Magog. The reader should recognize that this transition moves directly from the end of Greek rule before the first century to the time of the end. There is nothing in the scope of the vision between these two dominions. [Daniel 8:8-13, 8:23-25, 11:36-45, 12:7]

The Book of Revelation expands the scope of the seven kingdoms of the woman (where the condition of lost humanity sits) to reveal all of the kingdoms (governments) and their cities in the world at the time of the end. This condition is global and there is a great city which is dominating all of the rest. The specific and Middle Eastern dominions of the beast (where the woman sits as well) are represented by his last two heads, the 6th and the 7th. His five ancient dominions have already fallen and are historical. [Revelation 17, 18]

Daniel’s visions give us the symbolic links of the beast’s past rule in the Middle East (five fallen) and also two in the future, the 6th and the 7th that will exist in succession during the time of the end. The leopard, bear, and lion symbols represent three of his past dominions. The little horn, king of the north, will begin with a smaller dominion at first and then expand it into the next which will include most of the Middle East at the time of the end. The beast, who is Satan’s agent controlling the little horn, is described with the symbols of his past ancient Middle Eastern rule. [Daniel 7:3-7, 8:9, 8:23-25, 11:36-45, 12:7] [Revelation 13:2]

Further revelation indicates that there will be 10 other kings existing at the time the little horn rises at the time of the end. He will unite them and they will eventually share power and authority with him in ruling his 7th dominion. It is this alliance that will attack and destroy the great city of the woman (lost humanity), which will have a huge financial and economic impact on a global scale. This specific part of lost humanity will not be located in the Middle East dominated by the little horn and the other 10 kings. Satan will also drive his agents and followers to attack, invade, and occupy the Holy Land. This will include unbelieving Israel as part of lost humanity, except for a believing remnant (the woman of Revelation 12 symbolizes this remnant). [Ezekiel 38,39] [Zechariah 12,13,14] [Daniel 7:7,20, 11:41, 12:7] [Revelation 12:1-2,5-6,13-17, 17:3,12,16]

These are the IDs of Satan (the dragon), the woman (lost humanity), the great city, the beast, the little horn (king of the north), the 10 horns (10 kings), and the beast’s seven dominions. The Lord is going to judge the woman (all of lost humanity) during his hour of trial including the great city first, then Israel and then all of the other cities, destroy the beast and those parts of unbelieving humanity who will follow him, eliminate human rule, and bar Satan from interaction for 1,000 years. He will then restore the kingdom to national Israel and rule the earth from Jerusalem for the same time frame of 1,000 years. [Revelation 17,18,19,20]

Humble Bob

Nov 13 2008, 11:07 PM

Stephen, I'm a simple minded person. Thanks for the dissertation, I get a bit of it and can even see how it could be as you say it is, but it's way complex for me to understand. I am only left with what my spirit says when spoken to, and I cannot explain how or why because I don't see or hear God.

But the Vatican will be destroyed for that is what is being told in my spirit. I pray by the Lord, and not that I deceive nor be deceived. Whether the Roman Catholic Church is the whore of Babylon or not may not make any difference here because I read that you even wrote the Muslims will rise up to destroy the West including the Vatican.

So to some extent there is agreement there.

To me, that is the next Biblical milestone, the physical destruction of St. Peters, because I believe Revelation 17 and 18 speaks of a distinct entity, organization, religion.

But from now till then there will be many historical events to come that may not be written directly in scripture.

EOTWAWKI1961

Nov 13 2008, 11:08 PM

QUOTE (Humble Bob @ Nov 13 2008, 05:49 PM)

Revelation 17:16

HB

When did the Vatican/RCC become a major world seller and buyer of goods, exporting merchandise like oil, wheat, beasts, sheep, horses, chariots, etc? Why would all the merchants (traders) of the earth weep and mourn over the Vatican/RCC's demise? Can you prove that the Vatican/RCC is major world trader in many goods and is also classifed as an economic giant on the earth.

18:11
And the merchants of the earth shall weep and mourn over her; for no man buyeth their merchandise any more:

18:12
The merchandise of gold, and silver, and precious stones, and of pearls, and fine linen, and purple, and silk, and scarlet, and all thyine wood, and all manner vessels of ivory, and all manner vessels of most precious wood, and of brass, and iron, and marble,

18:13
And cinnamon, and odours, and ointments, and frankincense, and wine, and oil, and fine flour, and wheat, and beasts, and sheep, and horses, and chariots, and slaves, and souls of men.

God's Blessings!!

Rob

Humble Bob

Nov 13 2008, 11:34 PM

QUOTE (EOTWAWKI1961 @ Nov 13 2008, 08:08 PM)

QUOTE (Humble Bob @ Nov 13 2008, 05:49 PM)

Revelation 17:16

HB

When did the Vatican/RCC become a major world seller and buyer of goods, exporting merchandise like oil, wheat, beasts, sheep, horses, chariots, etc? Why would all the merchants (traders) of the earth weep and mourn over the Vatican/RCC's demise? Can you prove that the Vatican/RCC is major world trader in many goods and is also classifed as an economic giant on the earth.

18:11
And the merchants of the earth shall weep and mourn over her; for no man buyeth their merchandise any more:

18:12
The merchandise of gold, and silver, and precious stones, and of pearls, and fine linen, and purple, and silk, and scarlet, and all thyine wood, and all manner vessels of ivory, and all manner vessels of most precious wood, and of brass, and iron, and marble,

18:13
And cinnamon, and odours, and ointments, and frankincense, and wine, and oil, and fine flour, and wheat, and beasts, and sheep, and horses, and chariots, and slaves, and souls of men.

God's Blessings!!

Rob

Rob, I don't know the answer but I ask you to research it and find this out. What is the total valued assets of the Roman Catholic Church? If I had to guess, I say it is worth about $3 trillion dollars, property and all.

It's funny you should mention horses and chariots. I thought I read somewhere years ago Ferrari used to dedicate every 100th auto to the Vatican, a car that features a stallion and is a type of chariot. Maybe you can research that one too. I don't know. Only time will tell if I understood any of this.

Love HB

John Prewett

Nov 14 2008, 02:57 AM

QUOTE (Here Am I @ Nov 14 2008, 10:22 AM)

QUOTE (John Prewett @ Nov 13 2008, 10:15 PM)

The Great Whore has a lot of children.

[what "church" proudly claims to be the "mother church" ?]

"very rich, shed blood of martyrs, reigns over kings, city of 7 [small] mountains, world wide influence, gaudy colorful costumes, a whore that thinks she is a holy pure bride," hmmmmmmmmm, who could this be ?

Coming from the last post to your post was like

coming out of the sizzling heat into a nice, comfortable air conditioned room.

John Prewett

Nov 14 2008, 03:11 AM

QUOTE (EOTWAWKI1961 @ Nov 14 2008, 11:08 AM)

QUOTE (Humble Bob @ Nov 13 2008, 05:49 PM)

Revelation 17:16

HB

When did the Vatican/RCC become a major world seller and buyer of goods, exporting merchandise like oil, wheat, beasts, sheep, horses, chariots, etc? Why would all the merchants (traders) of the earth weep and mourn over the Vatican/RCC's demise? Can you prove that the Vatican/RCC is major world trader in many goods and is also classifed as an economic giant on the earth.

18:11
And the merchants of the earth shall weep and mourn over her; for no man buyeth their merchandise any more:

18:12
The merchandise of gold, and silver, and precious stones, and of pearls, and fine linen, and purple, and silk, and scarlet, and all thyine wood, and all manner vessels of ivory, and all manner vessels of most precious wood, and of brass, and iron, and marble,

18:13
And cinnamon, and odours, and ointments, and frankincense, and wine, and oil, and fine flour, and wheat, and beasts, and sheep, and horses, and chariots, and slaves, and souls of men.

God's Blessings!!

Rob

Chapter 18 reveals the Great Whore is very wealthy.

Only a handful of people at the Vatican have first hand knowledge of just how wealthy the Vatican is.

How many companies the Vatican controls through proxies.

How many CEO's etc are subjects and servants of thier "Holy Father".

It's as secretive as the Mafia.

Neither you nor I really know just how connected and influential the Vatican is.

Not much tangible goods were literaly stored and literaly sold literaly IN the WTCenters.
The WTCs were HQs of buying and selling.
I don't know what buildings more or less took their place.

And of course you are ignoring the severl other descriptions that the Vatican perfectly fulfills.

That nothing else [such as "lost humanity" fulfills.

When did "lost humanity" rule over kings ? KINGS rule over "lost humanity". Not the other way around.

When did "lost humanity" wallow in wealth and luxury ?