Val’s Church dream/ with Jesus
Had the dream on the morning of September 13, 2008

This maybe very scattered .... you know me and dreams. I was at my Church.... and lots of people were there....they were cooking in the kitchen. It was as if they were cooking for a huge gathering of some sort.

I remember someone... it might have been my mom was cooking these steaks and they totally got burnt. She or someone threw this huge pan of burnt steaks on the floor. It was evident by looking at them that they were not edible.

Then someone.... a man who was in charge of the food preparations said, "Oh Lorrie this looks like the best dish".

It was a huge platter of spaghetti..... It was very pleasing to the eye....: when He put it on the counter next to the other dishes the other food looked SICK!

Then the scene changed and I was still in church but people were kind of ordering everyone around. Some of these people I knew.... they were a few people from my actual church.

I knew thy were trying new things like programs/new classes and such. They were even telling the people what kind of shoes they were to wear! Some of the people were conforming and going along with what they were being told to do.

Then next I was in this auditorium; and I was sitting next to this young guy. I felt that possibly it was a Vacation Bible School or something to do with young children. But the guy....somehow he looked so familiar.

It was like I was attracted to him Not in a bad way. It was not sexual at all! Yet I just could not move close enough to Him. I just kept wanting to touch Him... and move closer and closer to Him.

Then the scene changed and we were leaving. For some reason me and this young guy started to leave and then a few others decided to leave with us. We left....I am not sure if it was my house or someone others but we were just sitting there talking in the home.

All of a sudden several from the church busted through the door and started yelling at us! Saying why have you guys all left? You cannot do this! You have to come back!

I was not afraid... yet I was just shocked!

Then other people came in people I did not recognize. It was obvious that these were the ones in charge! The ones controlling the other members of the Church and running the show!

I remember as soon as these busted through the door.... I said,"We have to show them God's LOVE! We have to show the Children's God's Love!"

Then the main man in charge looked at me and said.... "It is not Love they need..... these KIDS NEED JUDGES!"

I do remember saying..."I will never bring my children back to this place!" although I never did see my children in the dream. Yet some of the ones that followed me have been my spiritual children!

Then that was the end of my dream.


This is what the Lord has shown me concerning the dream........

I woke up immediately and I knew the dream was about the "Church"


The whole scene in the kitchen at church was speaking of the condition of many churches. The people were not able to eat the Meat of the Word hence the pan of burnt steaks thrown on the floor that were fit to eat! The Church as a whole is not feasting on the Meat of the Word. Yet instead they devise dishes that are pleasing to the eyes to get them to eat them.

.

The scene in the church - the members telling the others to change their shoes....

The feet are to be shod with the preparation of the Gospel of Peace (Ephesians 6) and the church is wanting these shoes to be changed. This cannot be... for this is the "Mystery of the Gospel" and if our Gospel be hid ... it is hid to those that are lost!

The churches main role is to spread the message of the Gospel..... and then once others have accepted to equip those followers to become faithful followers of Jesus Christ.

I feel this is not the sole purpose of the church anymore.....they have their own shoes( programs/ classes and such)


They feel that they need to entertain instead of Preaching the Pure WORD OF GOD!


The message is watered down.... and instead of being lead by the Spirit..... the Pastors and Teachers have quenched the Holy Spirit. We have been warned over and over again of these very things!


The young man in my dream was Jesus! I could not get close enough to Him. I just wanted to touch Him.... be near Him... Hold HIM! He was familiar to me and in this setting it was just Him and I. Others were moving around and talking and going about doing their business with all the programs but I was only interested in HIM! I wanted to put my hands on Him was symbolizing the handling of God's Word!

:

We as children of God should be interested 1st and foremost about HIM! We should want to draw closer to Him and spend our time hanging on His every Word!

Then the next scene was the Lord and I leaving the Church with a few others. We were meeting in a house. Oddly enough I have been thinking on these lines. That maybe my family and I are suppose to seek out a Home Church or start one.

At any rate.... when we left Jesus was right there with us!

He has promised to never leave us or forsake us! (Hebrews 13)

When the people from the church busted through the door.... it reminded me of those that depart from the Faith/ and then those that followed that were in charge were demons that were controlling them.



These spirits are spirits that are condemning and judgemental! They are those that want to control.... reminds me of the "Spirit of Jezebel"

I said that the children need LOVE!


We must reach the children! Whether they be physical children or those that are children spiritually! We must show them God's love and teach them of His Ways! They do not need more Judges.... this is what they get from the World but need to see the Love of God! Yes they need to be disciplined and taught what is wrong.... but with a humble and meek spirit!


This is all that I was able to gather from the dream. Please I would love for others to add! I am sure there are things I am not seeing. I would be interested in knowing if someone else thinks of something else.

In Christ,
Val
Messiahiscoming

I knew thy were trying new things like programs/new classes and such. They were even telling the people what kind of shoes they were to wear! Some of the people were conforming and going along with what they were being told to do.

ANSWER:
Yes, they need a kind of shoes . . .

Ephesians 6:15
King James Bible
And your feet shod with the preparation of the gospel of peace;




I remember as soon as these busted through the door.... I said,"We have to show them God's LOVE! We have to show the Children's God's Love!"

Then the main man in charge looked at me and said.... "It is not Love they need..... these KIDS NEED JUDGES!"

I do remember saying..."I will never bring my children back to this place!" although I never did see my children in the dream. Yet some of the ones that followed me have been my spiritual children!

Then that was the end of my dream.


ANSWER:
The dream is about the need to prepare the foundation of the church, with the shoes on their
feet representing the Gospel of Peace. And Ephesians 6:15, above, is re-enforced by understanding
the armor . . .

http://www.acts17-11.com/armor.html

Eph 6:10-17 (NIV) ...Be strong in the Lord and in his mighty power. Put on the full armour of God so that you can take your stand against the devil's schemes. For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms. Therefore put on the full armour of God, so that when the day of evil comes, you may be able to stand your ground, and after you have done everything, to stand. Stand firm then, with the belt of truth buckled round your waist, with the breastplate of righteousness in place, and with your feet fitted with the readiness that comes from the gospel of peace. In addition to all this, take up the shield of faith, with which you can extinguish all the flaming arrows of the evil one. Take the helmet of salvation and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God.



And you were correct in this comment :
..."I will never bring my children back to this place!"


You were correct, in the love versus the judgement:
Then the main man in charge looked at me and said.... "It is not Love they need..... these KIDS NEED JUDGES!"


THE SUMMARY IS, PEOPLE ARE SAVED THROUGH LOVE REPRESENTED UNDER THE GOSPEL
OF PEACE, NOT GOSPEL OF HATE.


A very enlightening dream !

Yes I got that part pretty quickly in the dream concerning the shoes. I knew for certain it was about the Gospel message being changed.



Love in Christ,
Valerie
Messiahiscoming

Wow Val, your dream is such a picture of this apostate church that is everywhere.

Im just sitting here shaking my head and in full agreement with everything that you wrote here.

I was just talking with a brother of mine a couple of hours ago, who said that he wanted to go to a mens fellowship meeting tomorrow morning, (it meets every every friday morning) but he said that he is so sick and tired of reading through yet another "study guide"..

I resigned from an elder position at the church that I was previously attending (for those that dont know me very well, yes I know that my profile says that I was born 27 years ago, but that birth date is the date that I was born of the Spirit), because the more that I would speak about just reading from and using the word of GOd alone as our text, and that we should actually be going out beyond the church walls to reach the lost, I was told (on a number of occasions) that they (the pastor especially) were not passionate about those things and did not want to pursue them! I was also rebuked on several occasions for talking against the constant stream of "study guides" instead of allowing the Holy Spirit to be the study guide!

Yes, the church, for the most part, has right before our very eyes, began to fall away!!!

Im certain that there are fellowships and small groups that are in fact truly seeking the kingdom, but the "institution" that was once the church, is by and large gone into seeking other gospels that did not come from Christ..

I just pray for the Lords mercy.

The word tells us that in the end there will be many of us that have dreams and visions.
I completely believe that this was one of them!

Lord Jesus be merciful.

In CHrist alone,
CHris

Chris I do agree..... iI think this present church age is certainly falling away. Honestly I think that we are just seeing the beginning of it. Dani and I were talking the morning that I had the dream. I was going back through our conversation and she was informing me of something very similar that you spoke of. Her husband teaches a Sunday class and they had chosen a Book of the Bible to start studying. I think it was the Book of John. Needless to say, unknown to him the Church changed the study.... and they were told that all of the classes would be studying the same thing.

When I wrote out my dream.... Dani commented that this was exactly what was taking place in their church.

Earlier today the Lord had me respond to Miki's Raccoon Dream thread.....

I wanted to post a link here because I think it goes hand and hand with this dream.

http://www.christian-forum.net/index.php?s...=23476&st=0

I have been trying to post this for sometime now. I am not sure any of it will help but nonetheless I feel that I am suppose to share.
The 1st thing that stands out the most to me concerning the raccoon is.....
That they are critters of the "NIGHT" and of course they are masked as you have mentioned!

We are suppose to be children of the "DAY" not of the "NIGHT/or DARKNESS"

QUOTE
1 Thessalonians 5:4-6

4But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.
5Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness.
6Therefore let us not sleep, as do others; but let us watch and be sober


Of course the mask/ reminds me of someone that is deceitful.... masking who they truly are? They are mischievous and devious not straightforward!
QUOTE
Psalm 35:19-21
19Let not them that are mine enemies wrongfully rejoice over me: neither let them wink with the eye that hate me without a cause.
20For they speak not peace: but they devise deceitful matters against them that are quiet in the land.
21Yea, they opened their mouth wide against me, and said, Aha, aha, our eye hath seen it.

Psalm 109

1Hold not thy peace, O God of my praise;
2For the mouth of the wicked and the mouth of the deceitful are opened against me: they have spoken against me with a lying tongue.
3They compassed me about also with words of hatred; and fought against me without a cause.

Matthew 13:21-23
21Yet hath he not root in himself, but dureth for a while: for when tribulation or persecution ariseth because of the word, by and by he is offended.
22He also that received seed among the thorns is he that heareth the word; and the care of this world, and the deceitfulness of riches, choke the word, and he becometh unfruitful.
23But he that received seed into the good ground is he that heareth the word, and understandeth it; which also beareth fruit, and bringeth forth, some an hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty.


Another thing I was reminded of is how the Raccoon has adapted itself.... even in the city! The scurry through the trash/ and feast on humans garbage.

I am just reminded of where the Lord has had me thinking lately concerning the "Church"

There are many that have adapted to the "lifestyle" of the Church.... that are not truly the Lord's.
QUOTE
Matthew 7:21-23
21Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
22Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Timothy 3
1This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come.
2For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,
3Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good,
4Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;
5Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.


I will have to post my dream after this that the Lord gave me concerning the church. I received a very clear message about the church in it.

But... Last Thursday the Lord added some more thoughts to your dream.

I was reading in the Book of Ruth and how Naomi told Ruth to uncover Boaz feet. Then you know how the story goes and Ruth asked Boaz to spread his skirt over her. Which got me to thinking about "Garments/ Raiment. Being clothed with the Lord and His righteousness. Then that is when the Lord lead me to Ez 16.....

QUOTE
8Now when I passed by thee, and looked upon thee, behold, thy time was the time of love; and I spread my skirt over thee, and covered thy nakedness: yea, I sware unto thee, and entered into a covenant with thee, saith the Lord GOD, and thou becamest mine.
9Then washed I thee with water; yea, I throughly washed away thy blood from thee, and I anointed thee with oil.
10I clothed thee also with broidered work, and shod thee with badgers' skin, and I girded thee about with fine linen, and I covered thee with silk.
11I decked thee also with ornaments, and I put bracelets upon thy hands, and a chain on thy neck.
12And I put a jewel on thy forehead, and earrings in thine ears, and a beautiful crown upon thine head.
13Thus wast thou decked with gold and silver; and thy raiment was of fine linen, and silk, and broidered work; thou didst eat fine flour, and honey, and oil: and thou wast exceeding beautiful, and thou didst prosper into a kingdom.
14And thy renown went forth among the heathen for thy beauty: for it was perfect through my comeliness, which I had put upon thee, saith the Lord GOD.
15But thou didst trust in thine own beauty, and playedst the harlot because of thy renown, and pouredst out thy fornications on every one that passed by; his it was.
16And of thy garments thou didst take, and deckedst thy high places with divers colours, and playedst the harlot thereupon: the like things shall not come, neither shall it be so.
17Thou hast also taken thy fair jewels of my gold and of my silver, which I had given thee, and madest to thyself images of men, and didst commit whoredom with them,
18And tookest thy broidered garments, and coveredst them: and thou hast set mine oil and mine incense before them.
19My meat also which I gave thee, fine flour, and oil, and honey, wherewith I fed thee, thou hast even set it before them for a sweet savour: and thus it was, saith the Lord GOD.

Isaiah 61:9-11
9And their seed shall be known among the Gentiles, and their offspring among the people: all that see them shall acknowledge them, that they are the seed which the LORD hath blessed.
10I will greatly rejoice in the LORD, my soul shall be joyful in my God; for he hath clothed me with the garments of salvation, he hath covered me with the robe of righteousness, as a bridegroom decketh himself with ornaments, and as a bride adorneth herself with her jewels.
11For as the earth bringeth forth her bud, and as the garden causeth the things that are sown in it to spring forth; so the Lord GOD will cause righteousness and praise to spring forth before all the nations.

I see the Raccoon coats as being the "Worlds" clothing...... and that way is not the narrow way but the WIDE! In the store that is all that was sold. If we look around our world today.... it is what is being sold! Its on the news... the TV in the movies..... the magazines the internet. We have even had it infiltrate the forum in many forms and fashions and we should not be surprised that it is being sold in our churches! This is the clothing of the enemy..... and the world is always trying to oppress us and knock us down to the ground!

Their goal is to render us useless.... and hold on tight to us! They want us ...our families.... and our children. The enemy knows that we carry the Light. At times the attack leaves us spinning around and disoriented and feeling very alone! We feel like there is none to help or rescue us! I can attest to this in my own personal life. Yet Just think about Elijah running after his great showdown with the False Prophets. Many times we do not even see that we are being oppressed , attacked or deceived. These attacks and oppressions comes in many shapes and forms!

I am reminded of what the Lord had to say to the Church at Laodicea......

14And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God;
QUOTE
15I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot.
16So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.
17Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:
18I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see.
19As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent.
20Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.
21To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.
22He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.


We have to buy/ receive our clothes only by the Lord...... the clothing that the World/and even in this case the church offers cannot clothe us. It will not cover our shame or our nakedness!

Love in Christ,
Val
Messiahiscoming

My thoughts exactly! God's people must come out of the churches... they are now infiltrated with Satan's henchmen; Satan is now ruling in the churches .

"Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean [thing]; and I will receive you, And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty." -2Corinthians 6:17-18

"When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:) Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains" -Maatthew 24:15-16

And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh. Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto.


Who does God have in mind as He sets forth this command to flee to the mountains and to depart out and to not enter in.

When we carefully examine the Biblical language, we will discover that the Jerusalem or Judaea God has in view can be none other than the corporate external church.

The churches and congregations are made up of true believers, who are eternally secure in Christ, together with many who are not saved. These latter individuals believe they are saved but they are like the wood, hay, and stubble who have a place in the temple of God, but Judgment Day will reveal they were never saved.

Thus, the corporate church, made up of local congregations all over the world, is parallel to ancient Judah and ancient Israel which had both saved and unsaved people within it. For this reason God speaks of those who are saved as being Jews. In Romans 2:28 and 29, we read:

For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

This is further declared in Galatians 3:29:

And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

The physical nation of Israel is physically the seed of Abraham. Spiritually, however, it is the true believers in Christ who are the seed of Abraham. They are the Israel of God (Galatians 6:16).

In Galatians 4 God further directs our thinking on this matter by speaking of the believers as belonging to one of two Jerusalems. We read in Galatians 4:26:

But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.

This Jerusalem is above. That is, it consists of those who spiritually are seated with Christ in the heavenlies (Ephesians 2:6). These are the true believers. From the moment of salvation, we eternally belong to the Jerusalem above. This is the Jerusalem from which the saved person can never be separated. It will finally come as the new Jerusalem, the bride of Christ, to occupy the new heavens and new earth which God will create. Throughout the church age, they were the gold, silver, and precious stones in the temple which is the corporate external church.

But Galatians 4 also speaks of another Jerusalem. It represents those who have not become saved. They are the Jerusalem that now is (Galatians 4:25). They have not experienced the grace of God Their chief problem is the same as that which existed in Old Testament Israel, they are trusting in some of their own efforts to assist in their salvation. They are also called Jerusalem even as the unbelievers in physical Israel were called Israelites. They are the wood, hay, and stubble in the temple which during the church age was the corporate external church.

Thus, we must understand that the corporate external church was made up of those who are part of the Jerusalem which is above and those who are part of the Jerusalem which now is. Therefore, the Jerusalem God speaks about in passages such as Luke 21 must be understood to be the corporate external church in which both of the Jerusalems exist here on this earth.

What is the context in which the Bible warns that those in Jerusalem and Judea are to flee and depart out? (Luke 21:20, 21). The setting is a time very near the end of the world. Luke 21:24 indicates that Jerusalem will be trodden down until the times of the Gentiles (nations) are fulfilled. Verse 27 says that it is just before they see the Son of man (Christ) coming in a cloud.

It is obviously speaking of events very near the end of time.
At this time in history, we are near the end of time. There is ample evidence that we are already in that period of time that is called Great Tribulation. It is true that at this time in history there does exist a literal, physical Jerusalem. It is in serious political tension with the Palestinians. Is this the city from which the believers are to flee? Is this a city that is trodden down of the nations?

There is no Biblical evidence that this literal Jerusalem is in view. The literal city of Jerusalem that exists today is occupied by very few believers in Christ. As a physical city it could never relate to the worldwide events related to the Great Tribulation.

The only other Jerusalem that could possibly be in view is the spiritual Jerusalem. And the spiritual is divided into the Jerusalem above and the Jerusalem which now is. The Jerusalem above consists of only true believers and is eternal in character. If we are a citizen of the Jerusalem above we cannot flee from it even if we tried. This is so because it is an eternal city made up of all the elect.

Therefore, there is only one Jerusalem that can be in view when the Bible speaks of Jerusalem being surrounded by armies. It is the Jerusalem that consists of all the congregations and churches located throughout the world. This is the corporate external body from which we are to depart. This is the Jerusalem we are not to enter into. This is the holy place that Matthew 24:15 speaks of and God commands us to flee from it. It is called the holy place because throughout the church age, this is the place where the true believers were ordinarily found. It is the place where throughout the church age, the Holy Spirit was present within it to apply the Word of God to the hearts of those God was saving. It is the holy place because Christ was reigning there.

We are to depart from it because its candlestick has been removed. That is, the Holy Spirit has been taken out of its midst. Therefore, it is no longer possible for people to become saved within those churches, regardless of how faithfully a congregation may try to remain true to the Bible.

(some excerpts from familyradio)

Annie....1st of all I do not agree entirely with what you have said...... with that said I think that this old post will show you what I do feel the Lord has been showing me for sometime.


Here is the link and post.....
http://www.christian-forum.net/index.php?s...mp;#entry184521


I quoted myself inside this post and here is the link to that thread....

http://www.christian-forum.net/index.php?s...mp;#entry182769

Like I said I in no way feel that God is through with the Natural born Jew. I feel that like I quoted above that Zechariah speaks of God pouring His grace on the House of David. If you continue reading in chapter 12 of Zech. it says this....

7The LORD also shall save the tents of Judah first, that the glory of the house of David and the glory of the inhabitants of Jerusalem do not magnify themselves against Judah.

The more that I have been thinking along the lines that Ephraim/Israel the Northern Tribes were the ones that were scattered and could very well be the "church" as you have spoken about. Yet in the future I see there will be a time when as Romans 11 speaks of a remnant of the Natural born Jew/ "tents of Judah/ the stick of Judah" will be saved.

I believe when He pours His spirit on them the dry bones come to life..... because the spirit of God breathes in them..... then immediately afterwards in Ez 37 the stick is united. I believe that the Lord will unite the true believers in Christ/Ephraim and the Natural born Jew/ Judah and they become one! (Read whole chapter of Ez 37)



Zechariah chapter 10.... seems to allude to this separation of Judah/ and Ephraim. As well as many scriptures in the Old Testament there is always a distinction between Israel/ and Judah. I challenge you to search and read many of these scriptures in light of what I am speaking about.

Matthew 13:12-14
12For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that he hath.
13Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand.
14And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive:

Not only was this spoke about in Isaiah 6 but also in Jeremiah 5..... This had to be a reference to the Jew/ because at the time the Northern tribes had already split and the Northern tribes were carried away into Assyria. The 3rd and final invasion happened in 2 Kings 17:1-6. Check this scripture for reference. The 1st 2 invasions took place in 2 Kings 15: 19-29. So therefore it could have only been the "southern tribes" that Jesus was referring to with the exception of a remnant that joined from the Northern tribes. Judah had already been taken captive into Babylon and were brought back to the land in the time of Jesus' Ministry on Earth.

Annie I do see in part what you are saying.... because I think as Hebrews says....


I believe that this has taken place with the church. If Ephraim/Israel, like I have been speaking of, has become the "church" s then they would be the ones that Hebrews is speaking of.

But the "Natural Born" Jew/ Judah has not had this happen.... possibly a few because of the scripture in Romans says "in part" . Yet I think that they will be literally surrounded one day in Jerusalem .... and the scripture in Matthew 24 and Luke 21 will be fulfilled.

I honestly think that most are afraid of this idea they feel that the Lord will regather the "the Nature bloodline" the literal tribes of the 10 Northern tribes House of Israel/ and reunite them with the Natural bloodline of the literal house of Judah.

I think that 1 reason why many are afraid to entertain this thought is because of Anglo/British Israelism. I totally oppose this idea because this limits it to only a select few. I am not proposing that only "US and Great Britain" are Ephraim/Israel and thus the 10 northern tribes.

I do not see this.... the idea I am pondering is that the northern tribes were assimlated into "all" the world. They have been sifted as Amos chapter 9 speaks of. This is the being sown into the world... as Jeremiah and other scriptures speaks of. If the believers in Christ are the "house of Israel" the Lord in His mercy has allowed for restoration through his Grace. The same is coming for the "House of Judah" as well!

Here is something Interesting that the Lord showed Dani and I awhile back back when we were studying Numbers chapters 10-14....

I was really suprised to find out the tribe that Joshua was from..... (Ephraim... and of course Caleb was from Judah) So that immediatly reminded me of Ezekiel 37 and the stick.


I found this verse in Numbers very enlightening.....

Numbers 14:24

24But my servant Caleb, because he had another spirit with him, and hath followed me fully, him will I bring into the land where into he went; and his seed shall possess it.

This is only said of Caleb the (tribe of Judah) that he will bring into the land.... (and his seed shall possess it)

but of Joshua it only says this...

Numbers 14:30
30Doubtless ye shall not come into the land, concerning which I sware to make you dwell therein, save Caleb the son of Jephunneh, and Joshua the son of Nun.

I just find it interesting that of Judah it says that his seed shall possess it.... that is exactly what we have today in Israel with the remnant of Judah!

With all of this said..... I feel that the Lord has revealed to me that there are many levels of interpretations. I spoke about this in Miki's Ephesian's thread... here is the link. In it there are 4 levels of interpretations according to some Rabbis. It makes so much sense.

http://www.christian-forum.net/index.php?s...20686&st=60

If you read the post you will understand what I am trying to say. I believe the 3rd level of interpretation would be the prophecy concerning the "Earthly Kingdom prophecies" I believe that this all would fit into that level. I in no way think that the Lord has written off the tribe of Judah which consists of Judah, Benjamin and a remnant of the 10 tribes that joined with them when the Nation of Israel split.

Yet I feel that there is a 4th Level which is the "spiritual level" It deals with the "Kingdom of Heaven" I believe that New Jerusalem and the picture of the Bride/ city coming down could end up here possibly and in the 3rd level for sure. I see it being a literal city with a foundation of gems. Yet I think it spills over into that Sohd level where it is made up of actual believers of of Christ which is the "Bride".

I am not at all sure about any of this... but I feel it is something the Lord has been unfolding to me. I pray that He gives me eyes to see. I pray that He will let me take a glimpse through only His eyes.... not the eyes of someone else. I do think that we are in the present church age of Laodicea. Although with that said, I think that there are individuals that make up the other churches.... yet corporately the church as a whole can be seen through the lens of the Laodicean church.

I know the scripture is clear that there will be a departing from the faith.... and that many will give heed to seducing spirits and doctrines of devils. I believe that we are beginning to see this come to pass. For now I am put.... but the moment I hear the voice of my Lord to go.... then I will go! I have asked Him specifically if I am to go right now? He told me that I am to stay put... just for now. I do not think the Lord is entirely through with the "Church" yet.... but I believe it is only a matter of time.

I know this was so much to digest...but I pray that you will prayerfully consider all that is here.

Annie you said...


Could this be something that happens.... I think it could be..... yet I believe it will literally take place for the Literal Tribe of Judah as well.

Love in Christ,
Val
Messiahiscoming

Not eating the burnt meat . . . part of the dream


http://www.christian-forum.net/index.php?s...c=21020&hl=
Sign Up For The Plasma, Receive The Milk Teachings To Advance To Meat !, Parallel between plasma/milk/whey . . .


excerpt
http://www.skepticfiles.org/ignor/isue04k.htm

MILK AND MEAT IN 1 CORINTHIANS

. The Bible says more about milk and meat. In 1 Corinthians 3:2-3,
Paul writes, "I gave you milk, not solid food, for you were not ready
for it. Indeed, you are still not ready. You are still worldly. For
since there is jealousy and quarreling among you, are you not
worldly?"
. A meaty sermon, accordingly to the notion first outlined here,
might very likely accent differences between Christians. According to
this notion, Christians who eat solid food are those who are zealous
for doctrinal distinctiveness and wary of cooperating with other kinds
of Christians. According to the Bible, though, these Christians are
fooling themselves. They aren't ready for solid food; they need milk.
. The Greek word translated as jealousy in verse three points to a
partisan zeal at the expense of the larger Christian fellowship. This
kind of zeal is not a mark of Christian maturity, but of spiritual
childishness. We should all try to become sensitive to doctrinal
purity and to doctrinal error, but we must work our doctrinal
sensitivity into a full-grown, healthy Christian personality.
Otherwise we will wind up fighting with each other, suspecting each
other of evil purposes, and finding it hard even to talk to one
another.
. Try to remember 1 Corinthians 3 as you work out problems in your
spiritual growth and relationships with other Christians that are
different from you.

Written by: James l. Vanderlaan

Computers for Christ - Chicago

Ok..Val..I lost it on the two sticks..I'm not there yet. But l have some comments from a personal perspective of the church today using where l'm as example. The word l want to give is

"Long Suffering"

Remember in your dream that Jesus is there for the youth...For those not yet fed with meat...or for those lost in the 3rd level of interpretation...on the merry-go-round of the spinning coin. It's hard to jump off a moving train.

God has me where l am to watch and know what he feels. He does feel...and he loves...He will hold the door open until the absolute final hour and he will use any means he can to call out those who will hear. But what does call out really mean? Is if physical only or does it have a deeper meaning as well. When the Holy Spirit gets a hold of us he calls us out of the fellowship of men into fellowship with him. This develops through the prayer life and personal scripture reading. Because each develops at their own pace l believe God calls us to himself and that doesn't necessarily mean physically walking away from the church but what it's really saying in a nut shell is "change me Lord" because when you change me then you will really be able to help others through me. What power does one born again ... walking fully in the Spirit believer have? A lot... Not by might...not by power...but by my Spirit saith the Lord. Here is where we need faith. Here is where we need love...here is where we need discernment. Have you laid on your face and cried for those you love who are deceived. Or do you make generalized lying accusations like this one;



Satan is not ruling the true Church...the gates of hell will not prevail against it. Satan has always infiltrated the carnal physical church..salt and pepper.. It's not a reason to abandon ship. This is long suffering. Because you stay where you are planted doesn't mean you are going down with the ship but you're extending the hand of love through the Holy Spirit and his works in your life even unto the very last moment of breath....However this is good reason to come before the wash basin...and to encourage others to come before it as well. To remove the caked on soil that can only be loosened with the water of the word.

Let it be so... Change me Lord...Then l can really help others and not just walk away with a board in my eye... He suffered for me up to his dying breath...can we do less for others? Praise his name forever! Amen!

Thanks for your insightful reply. I still have more to read; and the links. Yes, there are many levels of interpretation... and we must continue to study diligently.

It is important to understand, though, that Jesus Christ is not the Head of the corporate churches, and that they have been infiltrated by the spirit of antichrist. These false churches are ripe for God's judgment. True believers must separate themselves, and come out. God's elect will have no part of it... how can we be associated with belial? (2Cor.6:15)

The local churches each have their own brand of salvation program and false doctrines, and they have willingly submitted to governmental restrictions with regard to what they can teach or preach against (501C3). The leaders of the churches are hypocrites who have relinquished the authority, given to the Church by Jesus Christ, to the headship of the government. The churches are full of people who think they are saved Christians, but the truth is that they are not. Many pastors have never become saved, but they are merely religious products of seminaries which are controlled by Jesuits, conditioning and prepping them into conformance which promises to lead them to financial success. They have become compromised, glorified businessmen.


Babylon's Faith-Based Initiative and 501©3
http://www.unleavenedbreadministries.org/?page=501c3

Interesting dream, Val.

I haven't been able to establish myself within a church here to save my life, as the saying goes, not since I fully surrendered everything to Jesus about 12 years ago.

I've always wondered if that was due to some fault of mine and if I was being snobbish and wasn't giving things enough time and wasn't giving people enough grace. I have honestly been to every "spirit-filled" church in the county, plus others, and never truly felt drawn to any of them past the span of a few visits, or a few weeks or months. I now know that God pulled me out, as He has on several occasions, and while I am involved in a local church through their home school program, the overall state of our local churches is very troubling. So much soulishness, so much flesh, and so little of the Spirit. God shows up for 2 minutes and everyone goes "ooh and ahh" and yet, they walk out the door no different than they came in, and then go right on back doing what they've always done.

I used to spend 2 hours of service time (I kid you not) every single Sunday, praying demons off people, quietly and in the background. Then the next week they'd come back with the same garbage and I'd start all over again. This went on for several months. That's when you eventually stop and go "Hmmm ..."

Well, quite honestly, I might just as well stay home, watch a movie and eat some popcorn, it'll bear just as much fruit. And so after much deliberation with God and my husband, I quit going and spent that time with my kids instead and at home taking care of my family.

We now attend a home-based Bible study group where everyone is on equal footing and love abounds, and people take care of one another, and every time there is prayer, you can just sense the presence of God so very strongly, and we help one another understand the Word as we read and study through the Bible, book by book, instead of following some other study guide. Why rely on just a pastor to feed you, when you can feed one another? In each group there will be someone with a pastoral anointing anyway, regardless of their "official" position within some church structure. And we can readily see who those pastors are, and who the prophets are, and who the apostles are, and who the teachers are, and who the evangelists are. It's just all right there, even in our small group, and there is an automatic order as we all submit ourselves to God and serve one another, instead of outward positioning and clamoring as the flesh is wont to do.

I really think the Church is going to end up withdrawing itself from the churches, and regroup itself as God leads. I also think that we who are indeed the Church will always, always recognize one another and be supportive of one another.

That's just my 2 cents.

I had a dream last night, that I was at the worst Church in the world, Fairhaven Independent Baptist Church, in Chesterton Ind. It is located to the sides of the north. A Luciferian leader runs this cult contrary to God's word and has brought destruction to the local community. I was sitting in the church and no one was there. The just a few people came in, including that antichrist Roger E. Voegtlin. Then the dream ended, but very few people were at this large church, does any one care to help with the meaning?

Now I Posted a dream I had a few months about this place and I was trapped in here and could not get out if you recall in my first dream.

Hello Daniela,

It's amazing to hear this... how God is working in the lives of His people!

I am completely familiar with the goings-on within the churches as you describe... and unfortunately, maybe even more.

The Lord has called my husband and I out of the churches, about 9 years ago. But, after being in them for over 20 years, I had to de-program myself from all the conditioning and false doctrines through intense study of the Bible alone; every God-breathed precious Word. Because we were obedient to the Lord in this, we have been so blessed in every facet of our lives. Until then, I never realized that I was able to have the kind of relationship with Jesus Christ as I do now. Amazing!

I do believe that Satan, as an angel of light, is now ruling in the churches; the temple of God. This is the reason why God's Elect will ultimately come out, one way or another.

For fellowship with true believers, a home Bible study group is the best alternative. You are blessed to have found one as you describe.

Gideon said, Crown seven, I found it. Here are my origial words.


Gideon said, let he that hath no sin cast forth the first stone.

Man, I'll tell you I had a nightmare, that I was in a big local church and could not get out. No matter what door I tried to exit out of, I found myself stuck in this Satanic cult, as that is what this paticular church is. My family and I were excommunicated non scripturally years ago from this place for asking questions that were bringing things to light. Ever since we have been church hopping, but it is really difficult to find a church that is not involved in some kind of serious heresy, IMHO. The main heresy I see is the pretrib rapture doctrine.

We just are deciding to have church at home for now and praying for divine guidance.

Gideon said, let he that hath no sin cast forth the first stone.

CSA said, People who live in glass houses, should not throw stones first.

I think MessiahIsComing, started this dream thread with HER dream about the love versus
judgement message.


The Gospel of Peace, theme. Thank you . . . for this dream exchange.


So Gideon, you think that the meat is burnt if we have the rapture belief.( which I do uphold the change-ling time and the word/phrase rapture )

Go to this link, to debate it . . . however, let us respect this thread and not high-jak its purpose.

Passover (barley) Harvest / Rapture Harvest, [PERRY STONE]+Walls of Jericho Fall, Barley Harvest
http://www.christian-forum.net/index.php?s...t=0#entry239074


And it is clear from the dreams you held in good faith, that you were lucky to escape from people
who do not believe as you believe.
The being trapped in the dream issue, is forcing you to examine why you are trapped ?

And each person to his own calling, with humility in the walk we each take.

Consider, the two dreams your day-time nightmare, that you could not change something you
detest.

And move toward people of like minded . . . thoughts. Blessings, brother !

Hi Val,
I've been enjoying reading your meat-ful dream and discussion going on here. =)
I want to encourage you because I am noticing the obvious, meticulous care you have in handling the word of God...that is commendable.
When you mention the "stick", I also think along the lines that Jesus spoke of having another sheepfold which He would gather (and the TWO would become ONE). I believe it's simply that the one sheepfold is Jewish, and the other is Gentile (all other's who aren't Jewish/bloodline-wise). I also believe that the REMNANT, Jewish sheepfold has a partial, temporary hardening (that's not ALL Jewish people because God has foreknowledge that it will be a remnant).

His ultimate purpose is to have one, singular sheepfold. And you touched upon some of my own considerations too... (about prophetic scripture being applicable not only to physical Israel, but to spiritual Israel as well). How these things will play out for Gentile believer's I am not entirely sure, but I do have some thoughts about that. I believe we are further along the timeline than most care to believe...if we seriously consider that our God is an ANCIENT God, and also desires for us to walk in the ancient paths (of righteousness); we can clearly see the examples being given to us in the old and new testament COMPARED to MODERN professing believer's today...and the faith is so far departed from the faith of old. What I'm really trying to get at is this...there have been subtle changes concerning faith and doctrine over a span of thousands of years...so that by the time the end of the end appears, MANY will be caught off guard because they are accustomed to lukewarmness/apostacy and it will be exceptionally deceiving.

I want to share something with you too...(in 2-3 of my own dreams) I have also seen the young man you mention that you saw in your dream...and upon waking, I recognized that this was Jesus showing Himself to me as the "son of man"...such a genuinely, humble and beautiful son of man. I was also drawn to His youthfulness in my dreams and after praying about this, recognized that although our God is the Ancient of Days, He does not suffer decay...He is the great I AM that I AM...perpetually flowing with LIFE, never death.

I believe we are witnessing the great falling away...and as such I think it behooves each of us to prayerfully consider where God would place us. I think it's VERY good to get rooted and grounded in the WORD alone, dismissing false doctrines of men and demons FIRST and foremost. But, I have encountered some people (after they re-discovered the firm foundation and were secure), were directed to go back into some churches (especially in the hopes of waking some up). I've also likened this to the calling of a mother...going back to change some dirty diapers, lol. I'm not willing to broadly brush those who attend these churches as though they are unbeliever's (although I'm sure there are many who are wolves in sheep's clothing, for sure). I think this depends upon the calling of God upon an individual's life, IMHO. Some will never step foot again in a typical church setting, but some are called to go back with a function or gift from God. We need to be wise as serpents, yet gentle as doves too in that regard.

God bless you in your endeavors of single-hearted devotion to the Son of man.
Kim

It sounds like you all are returning to new testament roots...that's neat! My husband and I also have hopes of something similar in the future. 8 years ago, we were asked to leave our church (we were youth ministers) after they wanted to force all church leaders to sign cards (which made us promise to tithe at least 10 percent of our income). Although we have no problem with giving, we don't believe the NT church was commanded to tithe (according to OT standards)...and we could not go against our conscience in the sight of God. There was another elder we bumped into after this happened and he shared that he didn't read his bible everyday (that was another card condition, to read the bible everyday)...but he went ahead and signed the card anyway! And that was the mentality of our pastor too...that we go ahead and sign the card, EVEN if we believed differently about the tithe...in our eyes, it was lying to God! We have visited many Spirit-filled churches but have not been led to become members of any church since we were ex-communicated from our former church.

God bless you,
Kim

Kim.... 1st let me apologize for just now responding to your encouraging post! Please forgive me.... I have not been in the greatest of places for a few months now. Things on the homefront have been very tough....then spiritually I have not been in the best of places the past couple of weeks.

I read your post about your mom yesterday.... I am so very sorry! I know that at times in our lives it certainly feels like there is no way out. I commend you for reaching out to others with your testimony and taking a stand. I know it has been a place I have been lately in my mind! The enemy sure knows how to come in and just keep kicking you while you are down. I pray that I would never do it.... but I will tell you it has been a thought! I would love to just some joy and light in my life ..... the clouds just seem to hang around!

The day you responded to this post I was in a very bad place..... and how did the Lord use you greatly to bring me such encouragement! It was so refreshing to see that the Lord had given you many similar things. Such confirmation! I so understand what you were saying about the church and what the Lord is doing. I was afraid when I posted this dream that people would think I was telling them to get out of their churches...... this was not my intent. Yet I do feel that we are seeing the beginning of something happening in our churches. We certainly need to keep our eyes focused on Christ and our ears listening to Words.

It was nice to here that the Lord has given you similar dreams.... that was refreshing. Yes I agree about the 2 flocks as well.

Thank you once again..... I am just sorry it took me this long to respond. I pray that the Lord is lifting this fog that has settled in here. I long to see some SONSHINE!

Love in Christ,
Val
Messiahiscoming