http://www.christian-forum.net/index.php?showtopic=17591

This thread sucks,,,,,post some logical questions or observation,,,instead of this garbage,,,,standing firm,,,,,as if!!!!!11Your standing for nothing except flying to heck out of here,,,because you have not put on the full armor of God.......

You and the reat of your rapture friends cant hide nor run nor fly away from the word.....

1Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,

2That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.

3Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

March 11 1992 prophecy: (interestingly, 11 March 92004) was 911 days after 9/11 and is also encoded with the Rapture...


Listen to my words, says the Lord, and expect me with calm. you must not be afraid by the winds that will soon fall down upon all the earth, for the days of judgment have started and I am going to bring down, bring down, bring down. I will not cease up until the spirit and the veritable mark of Fallen Man is being manifested.

I will allow one last time my adversary, Satan, to dispute my authority, to defy my word, my will, and my Messiah. For this reason, Me, the Lord will create political, economical, religious and material upheavals.

Do not fear any thing of this because I am praparing the entire world for a last stage, for what is being described as a "New World Order" by those who do not know me, and who, in fact, is an Old World Order.

This is the power and the distinctive mark of Babylon, stimulated by this spirit of Darkness, the principality of Babylon.

This is the spirit of Antichrist that is being manifested for the first time at Babel when they seeked to create a world order without me, attempt which I routed.

But now, his time has come. Oh do not be afraid, little flock, of those who would like to enter into the schemes and the desires on My heart, those that I will form so that they can take possession with Me in these tempestuous times of change.

This is Me, the sovereign Lord, the Almighty, who am preparing the entire world so that this man of Sin can finaly appear. Nothing is outside my control, but everything stands under My authority.

I stand behind all upheavals, all changes and disruptions, because I am now preparing the entire earth, and especially Europe and America.

I have taken down a superpower and I am preparing to judge another. I will also take down the power of Islam, for I have seen their iniquity, says the Lord.

Lo, do not ask me to delay these chastisings for I have decided its execution and I will not move from it.

Take position with Me so that My will will be accomplished.
Do not be afraid, nor dismayed, by all these things. My project will establish itself firmly and I will execute all I take pleasure in executing.

All I have decided for My Son will be accomplished and all I intend to do for those I redeemed, those I have given to My Son, will be realized.

In the middle of all these tempests upon the entire world, I will work in the entire wordl by My spirit and I will gather a worldwide harvest. Where Darkness and sufferings have been the greatest, there will be the greatest harvest. For Me, the Lord, I will prepare a people for My glory.

I will call them from RUSSIA and from all surrounding countries. I will call them from the Islamic lands, multitudes and multitudes of youth. From the East and from the West, from the North to the South I will call them. In all the tumult and confusion, I will work powerfully.

I will anoint with grace and with power those who are faithful to me and by signs and miracles. I will be with them in their activity. That is why let me make in you, through my spirit, a deep work while it is still time. And If my heart sighs and cries with tenderness and love for those I have redeemed among th enations for them to be A FIANCEE to Me and for them to share eternally My home and My glory.

My heart sighs and cries with tenderness and with love, a love without limits and without equal, for Israel and the Jews where ever they may be. For as I recall the redeemed from the extremities of the earth, llikewise I will gather My Jewish people toward the land I have given them in eternal inheritance.
http://www.christian-forum.net/index.php?showtopic=17591


I solemnly take the pledge to judge each nation and each person responsible who will opposed itself to this manifestation of My will and I will use all means to bring them back to reason.

Her, Israel, who despite its wanderings, however has carried My name, oftentimes without knowing it, and that My adversary hated of a hatred as unlimited as is my love for her.

Her who has been hated, despised, afflicted and persecuted, whom the nations have rejected and trampled upon, Me, the Lord, the Holy One of Israel, her Savior, Me, the Lord, I am proclaiming, those who have beaten her and have brought blood upon her as she is now, I will lead her to her place among the chief of nations. For in all these chastisings I will save her.

Yes, Me, the Lord, I proclaim it, those who have brought blood upon her and who have hated her will come to bow down before her. So I will, me, the Lord, soverignly, on this day where I will open her eyes and free her ears.

In that day, my heart will sing with joy and I will danse the danse of the BRIDEGROOM. I am calling you therefore to intercession, which will cost you all so that all this, my plan will be accomplished.

I am the Alpha and the Omega, says the Lord, the Almighty who was, who is and who is to come the Almighty God.

Translated prophecy taken from:

http://www.christian-forum.net/index.php?showtopic=17591

http://www.christian-forum.net/index.php?showtopic=17591

Never mind.

You gave me a good laugh, laughter being good for ones heart!

Numbers 13-14 tell of Moses sending spies into the promised land.

10 spies came back telling of the size of the inhabitants of the land.
10 spies made the people fearful.

2 came back telling of how good and fertile the land was.
2 spies emphasized the great opportunity God had given them.

10 spies got God's disapproval.
2 spies got God's blessing.

The Revelation enables us to "spy out" the future.

Some "spys" will emphasize how "terrible" it will be when the "beast" reigns.
Thier cry is "oh Lord, get us out of here, "rapture" us before these terrible
"beast" hurt your precious darling children."

Other spies will focus on the EXCEEDINGLY WONDERFUL
opportunity and promise the Revelation lays before us.

TO REIGN WITH CHRIST !!

thats as good as it gets ! [for those who are

"victorious OVER the beast".

saints plainly here on earth during the reign of the beast]

Rev 20:4
Then I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was given to them
And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded
because of their testimony of Jesus and because of the word of God, and
those who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and
had not received the mark on their forehead and on their hand; and
they came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.

5 The rest of the dead did not come to life
until the thousand years were completed.
This is the first resurrection.

6 Blessed and holy is the one who has a part in the first resurrection;
over these the second death has no power,
but they will be priests of God and of Christ and
will reign with Him for a thousand years.

Good point bro, I hadn't seen it from that point of view before.

The "giants" are the fallen angels (stars) who fell to earth just like when they lead their abode in the OT and bore giants with the daughters of men.

The goal was always to bring paradise lost to the earth again. The garden of Eden is the earth, God's natural creation.

When Jesus said it would like in the days of Noah, God did not rapture Noah and his family but had him build an ark to survive the ensuing tribulation.

Good points.

We have yet to see anyone show us from scripture a basis, any kind of Support, or verses that state there will be a seret, mysterious, hidden, any moment pretrib rapture for the siants, to take them from tribulation in the world, soon to come. As a matter of fact we see the oposite. We see a bright glorious second coming at the end of the tribulation for all to see. The bible tells us specifically it will only be kept a secret to the unsaved, for such they will be caught as a thief. Since the save are not asleep in the night, of dark time of tribulation, it will not over take the true saint as a thief. To the saint it will mean rapture, resurrection, and immortalization. To the unsaved it will mean surprise, Judgment, wrath, and eternal punishment in hell, than ultimately the Lake of Fire.

The doctrine of pretribulationalism is unscriptural, sensual, demonic and the cinderella of religious belief. To the true church this doctrine is heresy. To those living in darkness it is false hope that will catapult them into great deception, and delusion when the tribulaton arrives. The rapture and immortalization of the saints does not occur until the end of the world and the last earthly kingdom is destroyed. This all takes place at the end of the 7 year tribulation. We notice here also that the saints face the tribulation the antichrist pours out on them. There is no fairytale rapture in scripture, sorry to burst your bubble. I challeng anyone to show us otherwise. YOu can not it is not there.

All we see from pretribers are man made inferences. Such as the word chuch is not mentioned in Revealtion after chapter 3 therefore it means she is not here. Well keep in mind the word church is not mentioned in the millenial reign and in latter parts of revelation, as chapter 20, when we see clearly the first resurrection which is the church and old testament saints. God choses to not use the word church after chapter 3, because he is no longer dealing with Israel or the church on a one to one basis and he did previously. Now, during the tribulation he is dealing with all saints, the unversal body of all true believers, whether of Israel or of the church.




24And the ten horns out of this kingdom are ten kings that shall arise: and another shall rise after them; and he shall be diverse from the first, and he shall subdue three kings.

America, The Beast, arises after the Roman Empire from the 10 nations and becomes the little horn. The little horn defeats and subdues the 3 horns, France Spain, and England to become the New Babylon. Now America is beginning to poise itself to a world wide campaign to wage war on the saints. Do not believe our circus of Hollywood politicians. America is in deep doodoo.


25And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.

26But the judgment shall sit, and they shall take away his dominion, to consume and to destroy it unto the end.

27And the kingdom and dominion, and the greatness of the kingdom under the whole heaven, shall be given to the people of the saints of the most High, whose kingdom is an everlasting kingdom, and all dominions shall serve and obey him.

28Hitherto is the end of the matter. As for me Daniel, my cogitations much troubled me, and my countenance changed in me: but I kept the matter in my heart.


Dan 7:21 I beheld, and the same horn made war with the saints, and prevailed against them;


Dan 7:22 Until the Ancient of days came, and judgment was given to the saints of the most High; and the time came that the saints possessed the kingdom

Of course there will be saints during the Tribulation!

The people unsaved who are left behind and who will be saved, it is even mentioned "the martyr who have washed their robes during the Great Tribulation," in the book of Revelation.
Thank God, God is not done with the Rapture only! Plus Israel will come to believe in Jesus as their Messiah!!!!

Here is a nice picture that shows the odometer of our car showing "1109" (like 11 September); to me another RAPTURE ENCODING FROM GOD!



Our car was down during the first 3 weeks of September; which means that on the 7th anniversary of 9/11, the odometer was still showing that reading; in other words, we did and could not drive it during this time.
When we finally drove off, it showed "1109..."; I took a picture; it soon changed to another reading as we drove, but I thought it was funny that God had the odometer show 1109...

A wink from God that confirms to me that the Rapture is coming soon! Just as quick as the odometer changed, days are passing by and it 's getting closer folkes!

YEEPEE!



Here is another picture of it:
http://s42.photobucket.com/albums/e316/Soi...t=1222630088563


I am going to blow some pants here!

I can't believe what i'm reading. America is not the Beast. America is MBG and will be destroyed at the hands of the Beasts "little horn".

God's Blessings!!

Rob

Gideon siad, that is rediculous. This can not be proven anywhere in scripture. This left behind hoax is something produced by Tim Lahaye and it was initially propagated by Scofield, Irvine, Darby, and the The Plymouth Bretheren; all of which were cooks and dogmatic. There is not one schred of evidence to prove such a fairy tale. As a matter of fact if you read Revelation 19, will see the announcement of the Bridegroom and Bride getting ready to come together at the very end of the tribulation, Right after Babylon, or America is destroyed by missles or arrows from an enemy over the ends of Heaven or over the north pole. This wedding cerecmony is recorded in the OT as taking place after the tribulation also. Pretribers need to learn their bible and quit depending on traditions created by men; they need to cease depending on hollywood productions as the Left Behind seriies. Christians believe this trash because it is convenient to have a fairytale thought of being flown away to heaven before Satan pours tribulation out on the saints.


(KJV) Revelation - Chapter 19 Did you mean to perform a word search for: Revelation 19?


Rev 19:1 ¶ And after these things I heard a great voice of much people in heaven, saying, Alleluia; Salvation, and glory, and honour, and power, unto the Lord our God:


Rev 19:2 For true and righteous [are] his judgments: for he hath judged the great whore, which did corrupt the earth with her fornication, and hath avenged the blood of his servants at her hand.


Rev 19:3 And again they said, Alleluia. And her smoke rose up for ever and ever.


Rev 19:4 And the four and twenty elders and the four beasts fell down and worshipped God that sat on the throne, saying, Amen; Alleluia.


Rev 19:5 And a voice came out of the throne, saying, Praise our God, all ye his servants, and ye that fear him, both small and great.


Rev 19:6 And I heard as it were the voice of a great multitude, and as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of mighty thunderings, saying, Alleluia: for the Lord God omnipotent reigneth.


Rev 19:7 Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready.


Rev 19:8 And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints.


Rev 19:9 And he saith unto me, Write, Blessed [are] they which are called unto the marriage supper of the Lamb. And he saith unto me, These are the true sayings of God.


Here we see the announcement of the wedding, at the end of the tribulation right after Babylon is destroyed. This is definately the end of the tribulation as we see many other accounts throughout the New and Old Testaments also give the same chonological descriptions. The wedding has not even taken place yet; this is a prophetic hymn announcing its immenant occurance, which we see takes place in Relelation 20 with resurrection of all Old and New Testament saints, the dead saints throughout the ages.


Rev 19:10 And I fell at his feet to worship him. And he said unto me, See [thou do it] not: I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren that have the testimony of Jesus: worship God: for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.


Rev 19:11 ¶ And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him [was] called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.


Rev 19:12 His eyes [were] as a flame of fire, and on his head [were] many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.


Rev 19:13 And he [was] clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.


Rev 19:14 And the armies [which were] in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.


Rev 19:15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.


Rev 19:16 And he hath on [his] vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.


We read and it was given unto him to make war with the saints in Revelation 13. When we enter the tribulation, these people will already be saints. They will not become converts during the tribulation, they will have already been saints. These saints are here to witness for Christ. Let's remember, just because God ceases to use the word church after Revelatoin 3 this does not mean they are gone. We see the word church is not mentioned anywhere after that. It is not even mentioned during the millenial reegn. Why because all are saints that trust in God's word, even the Jews. All are saints during the first resurrection, even old testament Jew. The saints were first called Christians in Corinth in Acts Chapter 2, but when the tribulation starts we will revert back to the word saints, as God will be done with organized corrupt religious institutions, and now deal with the remnant of saints to pour out his holy spirit and take the Gospel of the Kingdom to the ends of the earth, with power and wonders. We do not even see the word church mentioned during the millenial reign. Does that mean the church is not there; absolutely not it does not mean that. It just means God chooses to call His elect Saints at this point and from Revelation 3 on, which is where the tribulation begins. And no, the door opened in heaven does not describe the rapture, it merely is John showing us the reader that he entered the third heaven and saw things we normally do not see. Paul also saw the third heaven.

We need to have more than the obdometer tell us that the rapture is coming before the tribulation; we need to have God's word do that for us, and his word does no such thing. As a matter of fact we read in II Thes 2 Let no man deceive you by any means: for [that day shall not come], except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; We have not seen any of these events happen yet, so most definately Jesus can not come for at least 7 years from how. What we believe concerning the rapture may be an indicator of where we are spiritually with regards to eternity. Some may be unsaved or some may be saved ignorant Christians that have not studied the truth of a post trib rapture and the dogma of a pretrib rapture.

2Th 2:4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

way.


2Th 2:8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:


2Th 2:9 [Even him], whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,


2Th 2:10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.


2Th 2:11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:


2Th 2:12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

After observing the above post I see that G does not understand the prophetic scriptures at all

Nor does this one understand the historical record or current events

Either that or he does, but is purposely twisting them to build his house of cards

And this guy attempts to be a "rapture" crusher like nightmare

False teaching breeds false teaching

Good job Anne1 .... another "crusher" bites the dust

Gideon said, this is out of line with scripture. What do Caleb and Joshua have to do with the rapture? These two Israeli spies have nothing to do with the rapture. Once again, proof that pretribers make man made inferences by pick and pulling verses that have nothing whatsoever to do with the subject matter. They even claim Methusala was a pretriber.

6 Blessed and holy is the one who has a part in the first resurrection;
over these the second death has no power,
but they will be priests of God and of Christ and
will reign with Him for a thousand years.


I am glad this verse was mentioned for we see here in Revelation 20, the first and only resurrection of the saints. The first is when christ comes and resurrects the dead in Christ or all the siants from Adam up to you and I. The second occurs at the end of the millenial reign, while the first occurs right after the tribulation and right befiore the millenial reign. Contrary to the fantasy pretribs cling to; there is not two first resurrections of saints. THere is only one first resurrection of the saints. We can not have two number ones; there is only one. To say otherwise is to put data in scripture that is nowhere to be found, anywhere. We know the penalty for that. You had better rethink your reasoning if you think this.
Other spies will focus on the EXCEEDINGLY WONDERFUL
opportunity and promise the Revelation lays before us.



These are the Christians killed by the beast. We see a special attention being drawn to them as they are martyrs and will receive martyr's crowns. We also read blessed and holy are those that have part in the first resurrection over such the second death hath no power. In otherwords, the martyrs are not the only ones to resurrect, it is all the saints from beginning to end. This marks the end as we know it. THe books are closed, no one else can get saved after this first resurrection of all the saints that existed down through the ages. We now shall be kings and priest as God told us in his word

Gideon said interesting comment, Stephen. It appears, as in times past, you have yet to prove such a post inaccurate. I would much rather use my bible as an accurate reference than a car obdometer. Unless ye repent, ye all shall likewise perish. Proof of repentance is the also seen in the ability to understand and grasp scriptural truths.

God.


1Cr 2:11 For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.


1Cr 2:12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.


1Cr 2:13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.


1Cr 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know [them], because they are spiritually discerned.


1Cr 2:15 But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man.


1Cr 2:16 For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ


1Cr 1:17 For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect.


1Cr 1:18 ¶ For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.


1Cr 1:19 For it is written, I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and will bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent.


1Cr 1:20 Where [is] the wise? where [is] the scribe? where [is] the disputer of this world? hath not God made foolish the wisdom of this world?

So Anne what makes you think you will not go through the tribulation like the saints you mentionned above?

Gideon, good point here.

Gideon said interesting comment, Stephen. It appears, as in times past, you have yet to prove such a post inaccurate. I would much rather use my bible as an accurate reference than a car obdometer. Unless ye repent, ye all shall likewise perish. Proof of repentance is the also seen in the ability to understand and grasp scriptural truths.

Solomon once wrote: he who increases in knowledge and wisdom also increases sorrow.
This sorrow can usually be brought on through repentance.

Jesus once wrote in the context of repentance: annoint your eyes with eyesalve (saliva of the eyes, tears) so that you may {{see}}.

Good points bro.

Is there a difference in Jesus in the air versus Jesus return to earth, here is a study I was directed to.

Comparison between the Rapture and Second Coming in the Bible.



RAPTURE PASSAGES:

John 14:1-3; Romans 8:18; 1 Cor. 1:7-8, 15:51-53, 16:22; Philippians 3:20-21; Col. 3:4; 1 Thess. 1:10, 2:19, 4:13-18, 5:9, 23; 2 Thess. 2:1; 1 Tim. 6:14; 2 Tim. 4:1; Titus 2:13; Heb. 9:28; James 5:7-9; 1 Pet. 1:7, 13; 1 John 2:28-3:2; Jude 21; Rev. 2:25; Rev. 3:10.


SECOND COMING PASSAGES:

Dan. 2:44-45, 7:9-14, 12:1-3; Zech. 14:1-15; Matt. 13:41, 24:15-31, 26:64; Mk. 13:14-27, 14:62; Lk. 21:25-28; Acts 1:9-11, 3:19-21; 1 Thess. 3:13; 2 Thess. 1:6-10, 2:8; 2 Pet. 3:1-14; Jude 14-15; Rev. 1:7, 19:11-20:6, 22:7, 12, 20.


CONTRAST BETWEEN THE RAPTURE AND THE SECOND RETURN OF CHRIST:

RAPTURE

1. Christ comes for His own: Jn. 14:3, 1Thes. 14:17; 2 Thess.
2. He comes in the air: 1 Thess. 4:17.
3. He CLAIMS His bride: 1 Thess. 4:16-14.
4. Removal of believers: 1 Thess. 4:17.
5. ONLY His own see Him: 1 Thess. 4:13-18.
6. The TRIBULATION begins: 2 Thess 1:6-9.
7. The Saved are delivered from wrath: 1 Thess. 1:10, 5:9.
8. No signs precede rapture: 1 Thess. 5:1-3.

RETURN

1. Christ comes WITH His own: 1 Thess. 3:13; Jude 14; Rev. 19:14.

2. He comes TO THE EARTH: Zech. 14:4; Acts 1:11.
3. He comes WITH HIS BRIDE: Rev. 19:6-14.
4. Manifestation of CHRIST: Mal. 4:2.
5. EVERY EY SHALL SEE HIM: Rev. 1:7.
6. Millennial Kingdom begins: Rev. 20:1-7.
7. Unsaved EXPERIENCE THE WRATH OF GOD: Rev. 6:12-17.
8. SIGNS precede second coming: Luke 21:11, 15.

God Bless,
Bb

The differences between the "rapture" and the revelation [appearence of the Lord to the world] are significant as stated above

There is no question about this truth

These two events will be separated by a time lapse of at least 7 years

http://www.scripturessay.com/article.php?c...mp;pagenumber=1

JP said, Gideon, you rather humorously misunderstood my post.