Satan's wrath will be imputed by the Lord. It is the Lord who will allow [use] Satan and the fallen angelics for His purposes of judging an unbelieving world. This fact is quite clear in scripture. Since the world refuses to believe the truth about Him ..... He will give them the devil. And He will also destroy Satan in the process. The Lord will win it all. This is quite clear in scripture.

The tribulation period is the Lord's ..... the entire time frame ..... not just at the end of it as some think. Some place "God's" wrath at the end of the tribulation period, but this ending will be the Lord's turning on the beast and followers at the end of the period. The entire 70th week of the tribulation period will be the Lord's wrath and "great tribulation" such as the world has never seen in human history. It will be His hour of trial, His coming judgment against all unbelief of those who follow the beast and the rest of humanity living at the time. A few will turn, repent, and will be saved ..... but most of the world will not just as today. They will not even turn under the Lord's unmitigated wrath of confusion, vexation, and destruction. This is the way it will be.

The time frame will come without warning .... the Lord will intervene as a "thief" and the world will be instantly plunged into the darkest and most terrifying period known to mankind. Few mortals will survive it. Those that do and are found believing will enter His millennial kingdom as mortals and they will populate His millennial kingdom on the earth. The Body of Christ, composed of both today's church and those who become believers during the tribulation period and are killed for their faith will rule with Him over a kingdom of mortals on the earth for 1,000 years. This is exactly what the scriptures reveal.

Numbers 13-14 tell of Moses sending spies into the promised land.

10 spies came back telling of the size of the inhabitants of the land.
10 spies made the people fearful.

2 came back telling of how good and fertile the land was.
2 spies emphasized the great opportunity God had given them.

10 spies got God's disapproval.
2 spies got God's blessing.

The Revelation enables us to "spy out" the future.

Some "spys" will emphasize how "terrible" it will be when the "beast" reigns.
Thier cry is "oh Lord, get us out of here, "rapture" us before these terrible
"beast" hurt your precious darling children."

Other spies will focus on the EXCEEDINGLY WONDERFUL
opportunity and promise the Revelation lays before us.

TO REIGN WITH CHRIST !!

thats as good as it gets ! [for those who are

"victorious OVER the beast".

saints plainly here on earth during the reign of the beast]

Rev 20:4
Then I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was given to them
And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded
because of their testimony of Jesus and because of the word of God, and
those who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and
had not received the mark on their forehead and on their hand; and
they came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.

5 The rest of the dead did not come to life
until the thousand years were completed.
This is the first resurrection.

6 Blessed and holy is the one who has a part in the first resurrection;
over these the second death has no power,
but they will be priests of God and of Christ and
will reign with Him for a thousand years.

One must notice that there are three groupings of believers listed in Revelation 20:4

1.Those that authority and judgment is given to

2.Those beheaded during the tribulation period

3.Those others killed during the tribulation period

All of these will rule the Lord over His millennial kingdom on the earth

Paying attention to details is necessary for the correct rendering if scripture

4 Then I saw thrones, and seated on them were those to whom the authority to judge was committed. Also I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for the testimony of Jesus and for the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life (from having died or been killed) and reigned with Christ for a thousand years. 5 The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended. This is the first resurrection. 6 Blessed and holy is the one who shares in the first resurrection! Over such the second death has no power, but they will be priests of God and of Christ, and they will reign with him for a thousand years.

Why are no raptured saints mentioned?

You missed them

They are the ones to whom authority and judgment is given

The very ones that are seen with the Lord in chapter 19 at Armageddon

These are also the ones seen in heaven and around the throne in chapters 4,5, and 7 before the Lord removes the seals and before His coming judgment of the tribulation period begins

They are also seen in 11:1, 12:12, 13:6, and 17:14 during the tribulation period

These will return with Him to the earth just before the tribulation period ends

Then those who will become believers during the tribulation and are killed will be imortalized just as Revelation 20:4 records

Good point Eli "Over such the second death has no power" The second death is the spiritual death, the physcal is the first death...They will suffer the first death but not the second (soul).

Before the battle of Armageddon:

Revelation
19:1 And after these things I heard a great voice of much people in heaven, saying, Alleluia; Salvation, and glory, and honour, and power, unto the Lord our God:

19:2 For true and righteous are his judgments: for he hath judged the great whore, which did corrupt the earth with her fornication, and hath avenged the blood of his servants at her hand.

19:3 And again they said, Alleluia And her smoke rose up for ever and ever.

19:4 And the four and twenty elders and the four beasts fell down and worshipped God that sat on the throne, saying, Amen; Alleluia.

19:5 And a voice came out of the throne, saying, Praise our God, all ye his servants, and ye that fear him, both small and great.

19:6 And I heard as it were the voice of a great multitude, and as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of mighty thunderings, saying, Alleluia: for the Lord God omnipotent reigneth.

19:7 Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready.

19:8 And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints.

19:9 And he saith unto me, Write, Blessed are they which are called unto the marriage supper of the Lamb. And he saith unto me, These are the true sayings of God.

19:10 And I fell at his feet to worship him. And he said unto me, See thou do it not: I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren that have the testimony of Jesus: worship God: for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.

19:11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.

19:12 His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.

19:13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.

19:14 And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.

Then after the battle of Armageddon:

Revelation
20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them [those in Revelation 19]

and [then] I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus and for the word of God [the martyrs of the tribulation period]

and [then those] which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands [all other believers killed by other means during the tribulation [period]

and they [all] lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years

Stephen you mention saints being martyred during the trib. Yet you claim you will be physically raptured.

What you make you think you of all "saints" will be raptured and not others?

The Lord will call today's church home first. Then He will execute His judgment on the earth. This is evidenced by the presence of immortalized believers around the throne in heaven [chapters 4:4, 5:8, 7:9-17] before the actual judgment events begin in chapter 8. These immortals will observe the Lord's removal of the seals and will then observe the tribulation period on the earth. Revelation's unfolding switches back and forth from heaven to the earth. Those that dwell in heaven and worship in the Lord's heavenly temple are seen several additional times during this unfolding [11:1, 12:12, 13:6, 17:14, 19:1-9]. Those mortals who dwell on the earth are also noted many times during the tribulation period. Among them will be a few who will turn to the Lord and will be saved. Most of these will be physically killed during the period and will have to wait untill the end of it to be immortalized. You can find these in Revelation 6:9, 14:13, 15:2, and 20:4. The first part of Revelation 20:4 identifies today's Body of Christ who is given the judgment and authority. These are the ones who will come with the Lord to Armageddon as noted in chapter 19:1-9. The other believers noted in chapter 20:4 are those that will be killed during the tribulation period and resurrected at the end of it.

If one considers this evidence along with the Lord's promise and actions in other passages of scripture like 1Corinthians 15:51-58, 1Thessalonians 4:13-18, Matthew 25:1-3, and Revelation 3:10 one must conclude that the Lord will call today's church of true believers [both those who are sleeping in death and those alive at the time] before He brings His judgment against a world of unbelief. The believer of today must be "ready" as He has warned and not found refuting His intentions. Many profess their belief only, but are actually not ready for this event. It will come suddenly and without warning. The Lord will come as a thief does without any advance notice.

We are in the tribulation period now, it will end with the second coming of christ, which is the rapture..Then the day of wrath and Judgment, and reward for the righteous..

We are not in the tribulation period now. None of the events presented in the scope of unfulfilled prophecy have transpired or are taking place at this time. None. All are still pending fulfillment. The readers who knows the scriptures can make this easily determination.

Gideon said,

The ones seen on the white horses following CHrist are the dead in Christ. SOme most likely are the angels that will be sent forth to gather the elect also. The others are those that have died via not accepting the mark, martydom throughout the entire age, and all saints that have died from Adam on. This we see is the first resurrection as they return with Christ in Chapter 20. For such we see a prophetic hymn of the wedding in the first part of Chapter 19. The events are unfolding here. Read it carefully, it is not hard to see. Babylon's destruction has just taken place in Chapter 18; now it becomes time for Christ to return for his Bride and we see the wedding announcement in Chapter 19. The union of the church with Christ in Chapter 19 brings the wedding to a reality. In Chapter 19 you notice the wedding has not taken place yet, hence the rapture has not occured. As we read into twenty we see a fourth group of resurrected saints noone ever seems to care to notice, it is all those not mentioned that are blessed and holy to have part in the first resurrection over such as these the second death hath no power. This first resurrection is the only resurrection of the righteous, there are not two. It takes place at the only second return of Christ recorded in scripture, and consist of all the dead saints from Adam and Abel to modern day saints, even the saints martyred by the beast will be there. We shall now become a kingdom of Priest and Kings to our God.

In Revelation Chapter four we only see twenty four elders, these elders are not the entire church; if so the Bible would have made that clear. John saw twenty four elders. The twenty four most likely are the 12 Deciples and the 12 Patriarchs, representing the saints of Israel and the saints of the Church. Both groups are saints saved by grace, not of works, lest any should boast. This, I repeat is not the church; but 24 elders.

In Chapter 5 we see the twenty and four elders representing the large masses of people saved from the nations in the old and new testaments. The lamb of God was slain from the foundation of the world to redeem the people of earth, throughout the ages. These people represent the dead in Christ, not a raptured church. This Ideal is man made as the bible does not assert this is the raptured church as pretribers claim. These are merely saints that have died or been martyred and most likely the 24 elders that represent the saints are the patriarchs and deciples.
saints.


Rev 5:9 And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;


Rev 5:10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.

Take note, they shall reign on earth with Christ when he returns. Nowhere do we see a pretrib rapture here. They are merely announcing the fact that they are going to earth to reign, and we shal reign on earth.


Rev 5:11 And I beheld, and I heard the voice of many angels round about the throne and the beasts and the elders: and the number of them was ten thousand times ten thousand, and thousands of thousands



In chapter 7 we have an entirely different seen. Here we see a great addition to the masses in heaven, the saints that are dead; more specifically we see the martyrs that did not accept the mark of the beast here added to the heavenly masses of saints. The numbers could not be counted. There is no secret hidden pretrib rapture in scripture. The data in scripture does not assert that false dotrine anywhere. Just because we see the saints in heaven in Chapter 5, this does not mean they are raptured saints. If we take the Bible collectively and piece all the pieces together we see they are just dead saints, from the ages, written in the Lamb Book of Life, slain from the foundation of the world. The 24 elders, the saints in Chapter 5, and the martyrs of the Great tribulation comprise of the masses that will return with Christ in Chapter 19 to reclaim their bodies in Chapter 20, by the power of the resurrection of Christ; This is the first resurrection. We also see that the harvest takes place in the end of the tribulation to gather the wheat or living saints. Then comes the wrath of God on the ungodly for not receiving the love of the truth, but rather for receiving an imposter, the antichrist.


thousand.


Rev 7:9 ¶ After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;


Rev 7:10 And cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb.


Rev 7:11 And all the angels stood round about the throne, and [about] the elders and the four beasts, and fell before the throne on their faces, and worshipped God,


Rev 7:12 Saying, Amen: Blessing, and glory, and wisdom, and thanksgiving, and honour, and power, and might, [be] unto our God for ever and ever. Amen.


Rev 7:13 And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they?


Rev 7:14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

Notice they came out of the great tribulation, they did not receive the mark and died for it. All the people we see in Heaven in Chapters 4,5 and 7 are dead siants. None are raptured. Take a special note to this, if they were raptured saints as pretribers falsely claim, how could this group have come out of the Great tribulation if they were raptured before the tribulation. It is impossible for them to be raptured before the tribulation starts, and turn around, at least 3 and half years later and come out of the great tribulation. According to the pretribers they are supposed to be in heaven. Yet they claim these are pretrib raptured saints, when the Bible clearly tells us they came out of the Great Tribulation. THey are eighther martyred or dead from natural causes. The living saints are still on earth and are gathered at the end when the harvest occurs. Here God seperates the Wheat from the CHaff. The wheat is raptured and gathered by the angels, the dead saint are resurrected and gathered by the angels, the ungodly are gathered by the angels and made ready for the fire.

There are not two immortalization processes as claimed here. There is only one resurrection and rapture of the righteous not two. This resurrection and rapture occur in Chapter 20 at the end of the tribulation and consist of all the saints of Christ, written in the Lambs book, slain from the foundation of the world. There is only one book of the lamb, not two as pretribers claim

I read your post here,....I have a question of something that you have not mentioned here.

When does the Judgement Seat of Jesus Christ take place and when is tis Bema judgement over with?

.............................................benny

Gideon said,
I answered you beofore Benny. I even gave you a set of verses with the answer, yet you did not seem to understand it. The answer is quite obvious and is recorded throughout scripture. It does not take place in the seven year trib as pretrbers claim. Though, I stand on the same ground and refuse to answer you directly as you have done to me in the past, not showing respect.

If you answer this question, perhaps I will answer you. How can the great Multitude which no man could count in revelation represent saints that are raptured as pretribers claim? Could you please clarify how you all come up with this false belief not supported or asserted in scipture anywhere, much less in Revelation 7?

The Great multitude are trib saints and is not the Bride.

You claim here that the Judgement seat of Jesus Christ tranaspires after the 7 year tribulation.

How do you account for the crowns that the 24 elders had laid before the throne in chapter 4?

.............................................benny

I see that you realize that my question to you would reveal your teaching is in error, so it is making you sweat in revealing you as a false teacher.
Hmmmmmm,......I have another question for you
When the Lord is descending,...at what point does the dead and alive in Christ Jesus receive their new body?

....................................................benny

It is the bride..

Gideon said,

Strangely, you gave a good answer unlike your conterpart Stephen which previously claimed here as in other posts they were raptured saints before the tribulation.

Easy, First of all these elders are very obviously not the raptured Church saints at all, as they are only 24 elders. How do you claim these crowned twenty four elders to be the church that has received its crowns, when clearly they are twenty four crowns? They simply are 24 elders. The fact that they are 24 elders gives a dipiction of a specific number of people in charge of something important. There authority is seen in Chapter 7. I stated, I believe they are the 12 deciples and 12 patriarchs, which are most definately worthy of such crowns. Though we notice the 10,000x10,000x1000 are not present with crowns. THey announce the fact that they shall reign on earth. They have no crown yet and we see that clearly in various scriptures as. So the dead christians are in heaven but do not receive crown until they return back with Christ and begin to reign on earth. The twenty and four elders are already reigning in heaven and watching things unfold in heaven and earth.


(Rev 11:18 - Rev 22:12)




Rev 11:16 And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped God,


Rev 11:17 Saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned.

The four and twenty elders are only four and twenty announcing the reign about to come to earth, in the kingdom, with the resurrection of the dead and judgment of the wicked.

Rev 11:18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.

We see here in these verses the Great tribulation is about to end and it is announced. Take note also that it is the time of the dead, or the first resurrection to bring the rewards Benny is speaking of. It is time to reward the saints at the end of the reign of the antichrist. It is also time for God's wrath at the end of the tribulation; we see that clearly here. So both blessing and reward to the saints comes at the end of the tribulation, as well as their immortalization or rapture, while the wicked are judged by hellfire, as seen in other verses that descibe this same event in more detail, throughout all scripture. We see the nations become angry also because they know their time is up.

Rev 22:12 And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward [is] with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.

Here we see Jesus reiterating that he comes quickly, after this is announced in heaven, and he states his reward is with me. Hence, the only truth to the matter, is that the rewards or the crowns for saints or bema takes place at the end of the tribulation, when Christ returns to pours his wrath out on the ungodly. There is no assertion in scripture to indicate or show us otherwise. The scriptures in the old testament even teach such. Any inference to the contrary, as pretribers cling to is all man made, corrupted, fantastic impressions derived by man's ego. The bible says no such thing as a rewards ceremony for the saints will be before the tribulation, much less a rapture or wedding. These thoughts by pretribers were created by Darby, Scofield, Irvine, the Jesuits, The illuminati, and the Plymouth Bretheren, and are devilish and sensual. The bible clearly teaches us we will have tribulation; it by no means teaches we will have rewards during the tribulation.


Chapter 12 Did you mean to perform a word search for: DANIEL 12?


Dan 12:1 ¶ And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation [even] to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.


Dan 12:2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame [and] everlasting contempt.

Daniel makes it extraordinarily clear for us. Here we see the Great tribulation in verse 1. We also see the people shall be delivered at that time, the people of God, the saints from generation to generation. We also take note that everyone, not some, but everyone shall be delivered at that time, all at once, not on two seperate occasions. These that are delivered are found in the book, the book of Life of the Lamb, written from the foundation of the world. What this means is all saints from Adam and Abel, Abraham, Daniel, upto the diciples, Paul, and even modern day saints shall be delivered at the first resurrection the resurrection of the just, those that will wake to everlasting life. The other will wake after the millenial reign to everlasting contempt. It is very obviious here that the resurrection of the saints is one complete event sometime at the end of the Great tribulation. The Bible gives us more details in ohter parts, as it occurs after the destruction of Babylon, after the abomination delsolation, after the man of sin does his evil works, after, the sun and moon become dark, and right before God pours his wrath on the earth dwellers or ungodly. We see this recorded in scripture as an assertion. The pretrib falacy is not even infered in scripture. Pretribers must put things there that are not there to come up with what is an obviously, misconstrued conclusion that does not match the data scripture demands.

Gideon said,

Strangely, you gave a good answer unlike your conterpart Stephen which previously claimed here, that the tribulatoin saints in Revelation 7 were the saints raptured via pretrib, as in other posts they were raptured saints before the tribulation.

Easy, First of all these elders are very obviously not the raptured Church saints at all, as they are only 24 elders. In revealtion 11 as else where we see they are individuals not the body of Christ, as pretribers claim. There is nothing in scripture at all to indicate this false, extraordinary claim. How do you claim these crowned twenty four elders to be the entire raptured church that has received its crowns, when clearly they are twenty four crowns? They simply are 24 elders. The fact that they are 24 elders gives a dipiction of a specific number of people in charge of something important. There authority is seen in Chapter 7. I stated, I believe they are the 12 deciples and 12 patriarchs, which are most definately worthy of such crowns. Though we notice the 10,000x10,000x1000 are not present with crowns. THey announce the fact that they shall reign on earth. They have no crown yet and we see that clearly in various scriptures as. So the dead christians are in heaven but do not receive crown until they return back with Christ and begin to reign on earth. The twenty and four elders are already reigning in heaven and watching things unfold in heaven and earth.


(Rev 11:18 - Rev 22:12)





Rev 11:15 ¶ And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become [the kingdoms] of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.


Rev 11:16 And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped God,


Rev 11:16 And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped God,


Rev 11:17 Saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned.

The four and twenty elders are only four and twenty announcing the reign about to come to earth, in the kingdom, with the resurrection of the dead and judgment of the wicked.

Rev 11:18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.

We see here in these verses the Great tribulation is about to end and it is announced. Take note also that it is the time of the dead, or the first resurrection to bring the rewards Benny is speaking of. It is time to reward the saints at the end of the reign of the antichrist. It is also time for God's wrath at the end of the tribulation; we see that clearly here. So both blessing and reward to the saints comes at the end of the tribulation, as well as their immortalization or rapture, while the wicked are judged by hellfire, as seen in other verses that descibe this same event in more detail. We see the nations become angry also because they know their time is up.

Rev 22:12 And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward [is] with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.

Here we see Jesus reiterating that he comes quickly, after this is announced in heaven, and he states his reward is with me. Hence, the only truth to the matter, is that the rewards or the crowns for saints or bema takes place at the end of the tribulation, when Christ returns to pours his wrath out on the ungodly. There is no assertion in scripture to indicate or show us otherwise. Any inference to the contrary, as pretribers cling to is all man made, corrupted, fantastic impressions derived by man's ego. The bible says no such thing as a rewards ceremony for the saints will be before the tribulation, much less a rapture or wedding. These thoughts by pretribers were created by Darby, Scofield, Irvine, the Jesuits, The illuminati, and the Plymouth Bretheren, and are devilish and sensual. The bible clearly teaches us we will have tribulation.


Chapter 12 Did you mean to perform a word search for: DANIEL 12?


Dan 12:1 ¶ And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation [even] to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.


Dan 12:2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame [and] everlasting contempt.

Daniel makes it extraordinarily clear for us. Here we see the Great tribulation in verse 1. We also see the people shall be delivered at that time, the people of God, the saints from generation to generation. We also take note that everyone, not some, but everyone shall be delivered at that time, all at once; the deliverance is one process not two seperate occasions, as pretribers falsely claim. No scipture supports that; only man made inferecnes to mean whatever they desire them to mean.. These that are delivered are found in the book, the book of Life of the Lamb, written from the foundation of the world. What this means is all saints from Adam and Abel, Abraham, Daniel, upto the diciples, Paul, and even modern day saints shall be delivered at the first resurrection the resurrection of the just, those that will wake to everlasting life. The others will wake after the millenial reign to everlasting contempt. It is very obviious here that the resurrection of the saints is one complete event sometime at the end of the Great tribulation. The Bible gives us more details in ohter parts, as it occurs after the destruction of Babylon, after the abomination delsolation, after the man of sin does his evil works, after, the sun and moon become dark, and right before God pours his wrath on the earth dwellers or ungodly. We see this recorded in scripture as an assertion. The pretrib falacy is not even infered in scripture. Pretribers must put things there that are not there to come up with what is an obviously, misconstrued conclusion that does not match the data scripture demands. They put things in as the twenty and four elders are the entire rapured church, enjoying their rewards in heaven, before the tribulation strikes. Where do they see this in scripture? The answer is simple; it is nowhere to be found in our Bibles. These are fantastic creations created by corrupted minds, not adhering to the doctrines and teachings of CHrist..

Most importantly, we see the last trumpet being sound, at the end of the tribulation. We read in Chapter 10 that when the last trumpet sounds there should be time no more. Or the earthly reign and kingdoms of man come to an abrupt end. The last trumpet is also when the dead in Christ rise. This we see in the following verses as the saints are poised now to receive their rewards. So what is happening here is the last trumpet sounds, the dead in Christ are risen, and rewarded, the wicked see the wrath of God. Christ will now reign on earth with the saints. THe eternal kingdom is established.

In Daniel Chapter 7 we see a general summary of how God has delt with mankind and his saints throughout the earthly kingdoms. Here we see the ten Roman kingdoms that are now disolved. The ancient Roman empire is done away with. As we read we notice a little horn arises, America who subdues or conquers three of the horns that remained as world powers form the original 10. History proves this prophecy to be fulfilled as we see that America is the most diverse nation in history, a nation founded from the princilples and people of the old 10 horn confederate. She even destroys or subdues the three remaining kingdoms of the old empire, the three horns. These three horns sufferd defeat here, and are known as England, France, and Spain. Now we await the antichrist to come on the scene and rule from American, the ancient Babylonian mystery, nation.

We see clearly that the little horn or America will wage war on the saints. The antichrist will arise from America. The saints are here and notice they have not been raptured, nor is the kingdom established as it can not be until the imortalization of beleivers transpires. This will not occur until we are made in the likenss of CHrist at the end of the tribulation, when Christ comes to claim his Kingdom or saints and establishes it for all eternity. The kingdom of CHrist is not established until Christ destroys the beast; we see this here clearly. The beast will wage war on the saints until the end. There is no rapture here or anywhere in the Bible. Pretribers like to pick and choose and will usually say that this prophecy is meant for the Jews and that is simply Hogwash. The saints are the saints, whether they be Jew or Gentile. The resurrection is for all saints throughout the ages, as we saw in Daniel 12 every one of them shall be delivered, not just Jew. Stangely, and ironically, the pretrib camp like to pick what old testament verses are convenient for themselves, use them out of contex, and throw away verses as these that give us the entire picture, by claiming this is for the Jewish community only.

Keep in mind the church is not mentioned after Revelation 3 and for this cause they claim that the church is out of here. Though the Bible teaches the opposite they cling to the fairytale of a pretrib rapture. Their conclusion is this; since the church is not mentioned after Revelation 3, that must mean the open door in Revelation is telling us we are gone. This is putting something in scripture that is not there; lack of understanding puts them on the deep end to make assumptions that do not appear. The truth is the door is opened only for John to see the mysteries of the Revelation, allowing him to make a written record of the event. The church is not mentioned because now God is dealing with us through the deciples, and the twelve Patriarchs to bring the finality of the end, as the church and Jews are brought together through the man CHild, Christ, and the tribulation the antichrist puts on them. Now a question for pretribers, Why is the church not mentioned in the millenial reign eighther; according to their practice of falacy, that must mean they are not ruling in the millenial with Christ eighther? We know that is not true, but this belief system they have is unfounded and not supported by scriptural data, at all. They use man made inferences and make untrue assumptions that are not recorded in the bible..



it.


Dan 7:7 After this I saw in the night visions, and behold a fourth beast, dreadful and terrible, and strong exceedingly; and it had great iron teeth: it devoured and brake in pieces, and stamped the residue with the feet of it: and it [was] diverse from all the beasts that [were] before it; and it had ten horns.


Dan 7:8 I considered the horns, and, behold, there came up among them another little horn, before whom there were three of the first horns plucked up by the roots: and, behold, in this horn [were] eyes like the eyes of man, and a mouth speaking great things.


Dan 7:9 ¶ I beheld till the thrones were cast down, and the Ancient of days did sit, whose garment [was] white as snow, and the hair of his head like the pure wool: his throne [was like] the fiery flame, [and] his wheels [as] burning fire.


Dan 7:10 A fiery stream issued and came forth from before him: thousand thousands ministered unto him, and ten thousand times ten thousand stood before him: the judgment was set, and the books were opened.


Dan 7:11 I beheld then because of the voice of the great words which the horn spake: I beheld [even] till the beast was slain, and his body destroyed, and given to the burning flame.


Dan 7:12 As concerning the rest of the beasts, they had their dominion taken away: yet their lives were prolonged for a season and time.


Dan 7:13 ¶ I saw in the night visions, and, behold, [one] like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days, and they brought him near before him.


Dan 7:14 And there was given him dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that all people, nations, and languages, should serve him: his dominion [is] an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom [that] which shall not be destroyed.


Dan 7:15 ¶ I Daniel was grieved in my spirit in the midst of [my] body, and the visions of my head troubled me.


Dan 7:16 I came near unto one of them that stood by, and asked him the truth of all this. So he told me, and made me know the interpretation of the things.


Dan 7:17 These great beasts, which are four, [are] four kings, [which] shall arise out of the earth.


Dan 7:18 But the saints of the most High shall take the kingdom, and possess the kingdom for ever, even for ever and ever.


Dan 7:19 Then I would know the truth of the fourth beast, which was diverse from all the others, exceeding dreadful, whose teeth [were of] iron, and his nails [of] brass; [which] devoured, brake in pieces, and stamped the residue with his feet;


Dan 7:20 And of the ten horns that [were] in his head, and [of] the other which came up, and before whom three fell; even [of] that horn that had eyes, and a mouth that spake very great things, whose look [was] more stout than his fellows.


Dan 7:21 I beheld, and the same horn made war with the saints, and prevailed against them;


Dan 7:22 Until the Ancient of days came, and judgment was given to the saints of the most High; and the time came that the saints possessed the kingdom.


Dan 7:23 ¶ Thus he said, The fourth beast shall be the fourth kingdom upon earth, which shall be diverse from all kingdoms, and shall devour the whole earth, and shall tread it down, and break it in pieces.


Dan 7:24 And the ten horns out of this kingdom [are] ten kings [that] shall arise: and another shall rise after them; and he shall be diverse from the first, and he shall subdue three kings.


Dan 7:25 And he shall speak [great] words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.


Dan 7:26 ¶ But the judgment shall sit, and they shall take away his dominion, to consume and to destroy [it] unto the end.


Dan 7:27 And the kingdom and dominion, and the greatness of the kingdom under the whole heaven, shall be given to the people of the saints of the most High, whose kingdom [is] an everlasting kingdom, and all dominions shall serve and obey him.

Some have a very short insight and blindness when they read the scriptures

The 24 elders with proprietary positioning around the throne are not the only humans present

Only the unlearned, or a deceiver, would come up with a different understanding

Or, one who is aggressively trying to prove a falsehood and a corrupted doctrine

This picking at the Lord's Word is the hallmark of the deceiver

To say that the 24 are not enough and therefore they do not count in the rendering is a deliberate scam

Readers need to note the great multitude that is also present and referred to as from all nations of which the 24 elders are part

The elders speak of all inclusively by definition

The convinent misleading of G above is the evidence and rant of the "hoodwinker"

"Watch this hand while I deceive you with the other"

This behavior reflects one who has himself been deceived and all of this kind of ranting comes from the arch-deceiver .... the father of lies

Gideon said absolutely true. THere are others present, as I very clearly stated before, but the only ones recorded as wearing crowns are the 24 elders; Contrary to what you believe, the saints surrounding the elders do not wear crowns. Hence the bema has not taken place; there is not one schread of data to teach otherwise. As I said before the twenty four elders are clearly not a raptured church. THey most likely and more likely are the twelved deciples and the 12 patriarchs. This makes scence, even that they would be wearing crowns does also. This makes much more scense that they are individuals as we see for a fact, then they are the entire church. Why would God tell us they sat on 24 thrones, individually.


Once again, the last trumpet for the rapture sounds, the dead are raised incorruptable, the kingdoms of the world are now Christ's. His reign begins, the four and twenty elder praise God as it is now time to raise the dead, the time of the dead. The servants of God receive their rewards, all at the end of the Great tribulation. These are irrifutable facts, that no true saint can deny. Finally notice, there are 24 elders, that are praising God for getting ready to resurrect the dead. THis is perfectly clear. These twenty four individuals even have their own seats next to God's thrown, wow. How much clearer do the blind need it? These twenty four are twenty four people having special rule and place during the tribulation for the tribulation saints. The church and jews are on earth now and are called saints; the elders are clearly not the church as we see a distinction of that in vs. Saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned.

Rev 11:18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.

This is undeniable. Here is the bema or rewards ceremony, at the end of the tribulation. The crowns are about to be given out, and they were not given out previously during a pretrib rapture to heaven, that never occurs anywhere in scripture, as pretribers falsely claim; they claim the crowns given to the 24 elders are the crowns given to the entire church; so they fantastically conclude. Where does the scripture tell us the elders are the church? Nowhere. The scriptures tell us here the church is on earth and receives the crowns at the end of all time, after the sounding of the trumpet.

Rev 11:15 ¶ And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become [the kingdoms] of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.

The kingdom of Christ is in us, so when the last trumpet sounds we are reigning with CHrist. The power in his resurrection is now complete as the dead in Christ are victors over death. THe living saints on earth are now raptured and transformed to an imortal state, indestructable. The rewards are now given out. That is the kingdom of God being finished and conquering Satan.

Rev 11:16 And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped God,

Rev 11:14 The second woe is past; and, behold, the third woe cometh quickly. 15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever. 16 And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped God, 17 Saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned. 18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth. 19 And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in his temple the ark of his testament: and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail.

Notice the verse you qoute Gideon. Rev 11:18
The dead are judged, and are given rewards, (prophets, saints, and them that fear His name, small and great) but its also the time when the nations were angry and Gods wrath has come.
Same verse at the end and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.

There are some who believe that this Seventh trumpet has to do with the Rapture of the church. This trumpet has nothing to do with the Rapture of the church. Instead it shows you the violence of the last half of the tribulation period. We are seeing a glimpse of the final Vial Judgments which are poured out on this earth. The final vial judgment in Chapter 16 is the same thing that we are seeing here in verse 19. Notice that it says the kingdoms of this world have become the kingdoms of our Lord and he will reign forever and ever, this is basically what that angel in Chapter 10 was saying when he said, "time will be no more." We see the twenty-four elders worshiping God and giving him glory for taking power now and reining. This is the exact moment when the marriage supper of the lamb takes place in heaven.

When Jesus shared the cup of the covenant, He celebrated the FIRST MARRIAGE SUPPER OF THE LAMB.
The following feast of Unleavened bread is a 7 day feast (a biblical wedding last 7 days.

And Jesus celebrated with THE RESURRECTED SAINTS, the wedding feast.

Jesus told the apostles in Luke He would not drink of the fruit of this vine until the kingdom of God comes....

As we saw after His resurrection Jesus said to give Him food to prove He wasn't a Spirit.

The feast of INGATHERING IS THE SECOND MARRIAGE SUPPER OF THE LAMB. Also last 7 days....

That Jesus will then celebrate the 2nd marriage supper of the lamb. With who?

THE RESURRECTED SAINTS WHO RECEIVED THEIR REWARDS. AND REMEMBER JESUS CANNOT EAT AND DRINK UNLESS HE IS ON EARTH IN THE FLESH AGAIN. BECAUSE HE RETURNS WITH THE SAINTS.

Amazing what you can pick up in the enquirer eh?

Gideon said,

This dogma you state is hocus pocus created by a corrupt minded Darby and his counterparts. This is most certainly the seventh and last trumpet that reflects the time of the dead or the first and only first resurrection, the resurrection of all the saints as seen in Daniel; thy people shall be delivered, everyone found written in the book of Life. This means all saints not some, but all written in the book. There is no other last trumpet or seventh trumpet in scripture. Pretribers try to fabricate one, but have yet to show another last trumpet in the Bible or even another seventh trumpet in the Bible. Hence, since this is the only last trumpet or seventh trumpet we conclude as Paul and John did, as well as Mathew, Mark and John and others, thiis is the only trumpet in scripture blown to represent the resurrection of the dead saints and to point to the time of their rewards or crowns.. It is the only trumpet to announce the wrath of God and the establishment of his eternal kingdom.I challenge anyone to show another seventh trumpet or another last trumpet, not here. We can not make assumptions and put things in scripture because others have told us so or because Darby the father of Fundamentalism said so. What sayeth the scriptures? Who cares about what a bible college teaches or a pastors have falsely taught us.. We must ask ourselves, what sayeth the scriptures? Here is what they say.

incorruption:


1Cr 15:51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,


1Cr 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.


1Cr 15:53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal [must] put on immortality.

Some shall be awake or alive as seen in verse 51. We shall not all sleep, but we will all be changed at the last trumpet when the tribulation and time as we know it ends. There is absolutely no other verse or verses in scripture to prove contrary to this data; hence the last trumpet or seventh is the only last or seventh trumpet recorded in scripture to be blown in eschatology.


Rev 10:5 And the angel which I saw stand upon the sea and upon the earth lifted up his hand to heaven,


Rev 10:6 And sware by him that liveth for ever and ever, who created heaven, and the things that therein are, and the earth, and the things that therein are, and the sea, and the things which are therein, that there should be time no longer:


When the seventh angel sounds the time of the earthly kingdoms ends and now Christ starts. The saints are raised from the dead as this is the last trumpet; there is no second last trumpet. I find it amazing that pretribers say there is a second everything, but yet can never provide verses to validate such rediculous claims. They merely repeat what they have heard and hence can not show any proof. Yet, many choose to remain ignorant instead of admitting it is not there. Ameazingly, they even choose to conflict the the data that is in scripture and preach and believe contrary to what is recorded. This is mind boggling.


them.


Rev 11:13 And the same hour was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand: and the remnant were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven.


Rev 11:14 The second woe is past; [and], behold, the third woe cometh quickly.


Rev 11:15 ¶ And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become [the kingdoms] of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.


Rev 11:16 And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped God,


Rev 11:17 Saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned.


Rev 11:18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.

Once again the seventh and final trumpet, the only one in scripture with regards to eschatology. Blows, bam, the kingdoms of Earth are now GOd's. Hence time on earth for earthly kingdoms ends after the last trumpet. Now Christ's reign starts. The dead in Christ or saints are raised and it is time for the crowning or rewards ceremony. It is also time for God's wrath. The kings become angry and will be preparing their armies for battle at the valley, where the winepress of GOd awaits them. This is undeniable and to change these verses is sacriege. God means what he says, and be causious to change these verses to mean something they obviously do not as it could bring wrath on an individual. This is serious stuff and nothing to play with. IF you do not know, you are better off keeping your mouth shut. Take notice to the vast group of believers receiving their rewards; we even see prophets here, wow. Every one written in the book is delivered and possibly everyone receives a reward of some sorts.

Gideon would you say according to scripture the two witnesses sent to proclaim God's message was in the first half of the seven years or the last half of the seven years?
I'm looking at Revelation chapter 11.

Gideon said, some may consider the answer to this question vague. I believe the data in scripture, even here in chapter 11 indicates to us that they will prophecy in the last 42 months of the tribulation, or during the Great Tribulation. We see the holy city is trampled for 42 months and the mount is measured to split it with the Muslims or Gentiles. Then the prophets prophecy for forty two months right before the trumpet souding and the kingdoms of earth become Gods. For such we see the earth dwellers or wicked rejoicing in their death. Their rejoicing and thoughts of peace and safety are brought to an end by sudden destruction, as the kingdom of God unfolds on the earth.

When the temple is built,....do you think that the Jews will sacrifice animals again?
.................................................benny

Ok thats 3 1/2 years that the two witnesses of God will prophecy. You say (last of the great tribulation)

Now another question.
Rev 12:6 The women fled into the wilderness, where she has a place prepared by God, that they should feed her there for one thousand two hundred and sixty days.

Is this the same time that the witnesses are prophecying during the 42 months?
I am not trying to trap you actually im trying to figure out something. However it'll take me a while but if any others want to answer it would be appreciated.

Another question I have.
Are the seven trumpets the last of Gods wrath or are the seven bowls of God in Chapter 15 the Last of Gods wrath? or
Are they the same?

The 11th, 12th, and 13th Chapters of Revelation all describe the same 42 month reign of the false messiah. What we are given however, is three different perspectives, and what is occuring to different people. The eleventh chapter concentrates on the Two witnesses. After they prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, we witness the seventh angel sound which lets forth the vials of the wrath of God. The 12th Chapter once again is decribing events in the 42 month reign. This time the description is focused on the "woman", the church. The 13th Chapter is once again the same time period, but in this chapter the desciption focuses on the actions of the false messiah. [indent][/indent]Events prior to these three Chapters, the Seals, and first six trumpets, are precurser events that set the stage for the false Messiah to rule and reign. it is only after the 13th chapter, do we witness the actual vials of the wrath of God being poured out on those that have swore allegience to the beast.

This is a question I see alot. The trumpets and the vials sound very simular. There is however, two very big distict differences. The Trumpets bring on the destruction of 1/3rd's, while the vials of the wrath of God are absolute and complete (all). The second diffence, is, the First six trumpets are sounder PRIOR TO THE 42 MONTH REIGN OF THE FALSE messiah, while the vials of the wrath of God occur after the 42 month reign. The trumpets ARE NOT part of the wrath of God. It is ONLY the vials that are the wrath of God!! When studying this, "think duplication". There will be certian events Prior to the reign of the False messiah, that will appear to be what occurs prior to the return of the real!!!

Gideon said,

The temple mount faithful is a group of Jews that have rebuilt all the instuments for sacrifice in the temple. The have the instruments ready to go, 100% done. Apparently one of its members, Solomon, has all the lime stone, and the cornerstone; whether this is true or not remains to be seen. Since the mount has much contraversy, as in years past, all we await for is a weeks peace treaty to be established between the Jews and Arabs to measure split and divide the land and mount. This will more likely happen sooner than later. The court which is without and given to the gentiles is most likely the Dome of the Rock, muslim sight. The temple will be built somewhere next to it. There have been reports that actual remains of the first temple have been unearth. Time will tell.

I believe to answer your question they will sacrifice in the temple as soon as it is done. The building according to the New Sanhedrin, and Temple mount faithful will only take 4-6 months. They will sacrifice again; the Jews have dreamed of making offerings for a long time, now. The only prevention has been the arabs currently control the mount, but we see it wil be measured and parted in Revelation 11. This is when the Jews rebuild and commence sacrificing animals again. They must do so to bring the appearance of their Messiah; is what Jew strongly believe. In a sence this is true; however they are looking for the Messiah to come save them, without tribulaiton. Christ will only come at the end of the week, as a reigning Messiah, after all the workings of Satan. Daniel tells us this, but the antichrist as we know will desocrate the temple and blaspheme GOd in the middle of the week. After this desocration he makes war agains the saints, and blaphemes the GOd of Israel; this becomes an eye opener to the Jews and they realize then, and only then this is not their Messiah, but an imposter.

understand.


Dan 12:11 And from the time [that] the daily [sacrifice] shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, [there shall be] a thousand two hundred and ninety days.

And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make [it] desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.
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kings.


Dan 7:25 And he shall speak [great] words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.


Dan 7:26 ¶ But the judgment shall sit, and they shall take away his dominion, to consume and to destroy [it] unto the end.


Dan 7:27 And the kingdom and dominion, and the greatness of the kingdom under the whole heaven, shall be given to the people of the saints of the most High, whose kingdom [is] an everlasting kingdom, and all dominions shall serve and obey him.

Sorry I would have responded earlier but I got kicked out (computer)

Anyway I agree vials and trumpets look similar but are different.

Now my question is this Joshleet.
Were the two witnesses around for both of them or not? Bare with me im slow but you will see what im understanding here.
For that matter were the 144,000 of the tribes of Israel around for trumpets or vials as the two witnesses?

What I get from Revelation is that the two witnesses and the 144,000 of the tribes of Israel are here for the first 42 months of tribulation not the last half.

Also my understanding is that the woman fleeing is not the church its, Israel.
Look at the verse.
Rev 12:6 Then the women fled into the wilderness, where she has a place preparedby God, that they should feed her one thousand two hundred and sixty days.

now look at

Rev 12:17 And the dragon was enranged with the woman, and he went to make war with her with the rest of her offspring, who keep the commandments of Fod and of Jesus Christ.

As you said when studying this think duplication.
I hope I explained what im thinking accurately if not ill try to respond after your comments.

I see,....When the A.O.D. happens,.....Do all the Jews flee? I would think that even if a jew were to except the mark, that the ac would chase after and attempt to kill them too.I know that only a 3rd of the jews survive by hiding in the wilderness.

.............................................................benny

The reason I think the 144,000 are not here for the second 3 1/2 years is Rev 14

Re 14:1 And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads. 2 And I heard a voice from heaven, as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of a great thunder: and I heard the voice of harpers harping with their harps: 3 And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth. 4 These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb. 5 And in their mouth was found no guile: for they are without fault before the throne of God.

In these verses these saints are the 144,000 and they are in heaven.

Now look at Rev 14:6-7

6 And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people, 7 Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters.

Three angels are sent out and proclaiming (1) Fear God and give Him Glory Rev 14:7 (2)Babylon is fallen Rev 14:8 (3) If anyone worships the beast and his image Rev 14:8

See it has not ended yet the 144,000 have been taken out and in this particular chapter there was no cut off of events its continual.

Keep reading Rev 14 and 15
Now I know I can't change Gods word none of us can and we better not but that is what is happening here in these chapters and I think its pretty clear.