....at a group of people who didn't Heed the Warning Jesus gave about the end time. Jesus stated that "ye shall hear of wars and rumors of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, BUT THE END IS NOT YET". The following is a group of People who didn't heed the Lords warning, and accepted the wars and rumors of wars "AS THE END"! Look at what they do, and hear what they are concluding....[indent][/indent] Is this truly the day of the Lord, or is this a group of people, who didn't Heed the warning from our Lord? When Jesus returns, aint He on a horse?

He "ain't

He will intervene with the His judgment of an unbelieving world. His day of revenge against human intransigence. A full 7 years and 30 days of His wrath. He will then appear visibly to the world at the end of the period. And He "ain't" going to be on a horse ... He does not need one. This presentation is symbolic only.

Now that is a major assumption! Show me any one verse that states thate the Lord's wrath is a full seven year period..... The only wrath I see is filled up in the vials, which is poured out after the 42 month reign of the false messiah. How convienent! And I guess those that see Him on the throne in the sixth seal, really don't see Him on the throne, because that is also symbolic!!! Now who is adding to, and taking away from Revelation?

Keep in mind what I have told you

You haven't stated anything to establish your theory

Far from the truth

Over 3,000 posts on this forum

All consistant

Much scriptural documentation

Is your statement your way of winning an argument?

This kind of debating tactic is the mark of one who is playing a game

I am not trying to "win" anything. All I am doing is giving a different perspective of end time events. As I stated earlier, you can accept it, you can reject it. I am not the one that continues this discussion. If you don't want to accept this perspective, fine, but you don't have to be argumentative with it, Just because it doesn't agree with what you have accepted as absolute Gospel Truth. I respect your theory, and I am not trying to disprove it, All I ask is for Like kind ethics!

I believe the wars and rumours of wars, has been going on for 2000 years.

But the greatest wars were in the last century the 2 world wars. Israel got her land back.

And we have begun the 3rd day since Jesus walked the earth.

After 2 "days" He will raise us.

Stephen said,



Yes you are. Do you want some tutorial assistance?



Don't build yourself up too much Stephen because you don't have to. Your the top dog because you often tear others down!



It's pretty tough winning an argument with you. Your the guy who knows everything there is to know about...
Everything there is to know about!



I don't like the game "pat yourself on the back" either!

Good day!

SW

So you don't like your own game?

Interesting

Let's get real. I only want to play answer the question game. I asked you a question and you answered with a question. That's not an answer. That's diversion. You obviously don't know how to play the game. I'm willing and able to answer the question you posed to me quite well. I have no problems telling anybody who my daddy is and who I'm following. I just would like you to answer the question that I've posed to you first! Which is...

If there is a pretrib rapture, surely there must be a verse in the bible that states that Christ will return before it? You can either quote the verse, or admit that it doesn't exist and therefore admit that the question cannot be answered! I'll leave the coming out of denial and changing your mind (repentance) up to you



Your good brother in Christ,

SW

Let me say this to you

Your game is over as far as I am concerned

I do not dialogue with those who operate with an aggressive and slanted demeanor

Just like the matadore fights the bull

The bull snorts, stomps his feet, bellows, and runs at his target

The matadore waves the red flag

The bull is distracted and expends his energy for nothing

The matadore then kills the bull with his sword

Game over

I agree, there is no reason to quarrels that develop big heads full of pompous air.

The analogy with the bull though, would only apply if there was a need to kill the bull. I do not see one, or even: the bull represents the Lord Gods strength.

That's just what I want to hear. Remember. That's three questions of mine that you haven't (can't) answered and have avoided. It's game over alright!

See ya!

SW

Gideon said,

Really, all a pretribers has to do is look at this chapter to conclude that the return of Christ is after the Babylonian whore is destroyed and after the announcement of his wedding to the Bride. Now if Revelation 19 is a prophetic hymn and it is, announcing the wedding of Christ, than that can only mean the wedding has not taken place. We see nowhere in scripture that the bride is in heaven with her lord before the tribulation. How is it that pretribers claim it has already taken place? When in fact, here we see the wedding announcement, the announcement of the return of Christ to Reign on earth, and the announcement of the coming kingdom; how can they claim this is the wedding before the tribulation? It is a mere announcement, at the end of the Great Tribulation, announcing the soon to come wedding. We see that in scripture, especially in Revelation. Revelation 12 announces 13. The fall of Babylon is announced in the previous chapter before she actually falls in 18. Chapter 19 announces his imminent return, the reign, the kingdom and it begins to unfold at the end of 19 and carries on into 20.

My point is, there is no pretrib rapture, there is no wedding before the tribulation as it is barely announced at the end of the tribulation. Therefore, we see the wedding union in 20, the return of Christ in latter part of 19 the resurrection of the righteous or rapture in Revelation 20, the first resurrection. So how do they claim, as nothing is recorded in scripture at all that it occurs before the tribulation. I like to refer to it as wishful thinking or possibly a delusional state of being.



Rev 19:1 And after these things I heard a great voice of much people in heaven, saying, Alleluia; Salvation, and glory, and honour, and power, unto the Lord our God:
Rev 19:2 For true and righteous [are] his judgments: for he hath judged the great whore, which did corrupt the earth with her fornication, and hath avenged the blood of his servants at her hand.
Rev 19:3 And again they said, Alleluia. And her smoke rose up for ever and ever.
Rev 19:4 And the four and twenty elders and the four beasts fell down and worshipped God that sat on the throne, saying, Amen; Alleluia.
Rev 19:5 And a voice came out of the throne, saying, Praise our God, all ye his servants, and ye that fear him, both small and great.
Rev 19:6 And I heard as it were the voice of a great multitude, and as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of mighty thunderings, saying, Alleluia: for the Lord God omnipotent reigneth.
Rev 19:7 Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready.
Rev 19:8 And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints.
Rev 19:9 And he saith unto me, Write, Blessed [are] they which are called unto the marriage supper of the Lamb. And he saith unto me, These are the true sayings of God.
Rev 19:10 And I fell at his feet to worship him. And he said unto me, See [thou do it] not: I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren that have the testimony of Jesus: worship God: for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.
Rev 19:11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him [was] called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.
Rev 19:12 His eyes [were] as a flame of fire, and on his head [were] many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.
Rev 19:13 And he [was] clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.
Rev 19:14 And the armies [which were] in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.
The saints even follow on White horses, in white linen, clean and white which represents the righteusness of the saints, wow. These are the dead saints throughout the ages, and the martyred ones that died at the hands of the beast, ready to come back now and reclaim their bodies, via the first resurrection. Revelation 11:15

Rev 19:15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God. He the man child shall rule them with a rod of iron, but Satan will still try to destroy the man child, as soon as he returns. Satan will gather all the armies of earth to wage war against the man child. Yet, Satan falls into God's perfect plan, as he gathers them together for the great slaughter and winepress of God, in Megiddo. The great flood of blood is as high as the horses bridals.Rev 19:16 And he hath on [his] vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.
Rev 19:17 And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God;
Rev 19:18 That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all [men, both] free and bond, both small and great.
Rev 19:19 And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.
Rev 19:20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.
Rev 19:21 And the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which [sword] proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh.

season.
Rev 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and [I saw] the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received [his] mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
Rev 20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This [is] the first resurrection.