From the greek #2546 Pressure (lit. and fig.) Affliction, Anguish, Burden, Persecution, Tribulation, Trouble

[/indent] What truly is Tribulation, and who will experience it? Is it for the believer? Is it for the Heathen? A label has been applied to a specific time frame in the Last days, known as the "tribulation Period" There is also a TIme period called the "Great Tribulation" Jesus Alludes to Both Periods of Time

QUOTE

Immedieately AFTER THE TRIBULATION OF THOSE DAYS, shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shake:

It is after the "tribulation Period" do we witness a time of trouble that will begin like no other. It is after the tribulation we witness Jesus returning

QUOTE

Matthew 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the son of man in heaven; and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they SHALL SEE THE SON OF MAN COMING IN THE CLOUDS OF HEAVEN WITH POWER AND GREAT GLORY

One mustn't confuse the "tribulation Period" with the Day of the Lord. Most have placed the Day of the Lord, in the 2nd half of the tribulation period, but How could this be? Is there any scriptural evidence that the DAy of the Lord is the second half of the "tribulation period? No, there isn't!! What was said about the Day in Thess? IIthess 2:3 Let no man decieve you by any means: For that Day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition.

We have a pretty good idea from this, of what occurs Prior to the Day of the Lord. The falling away first occurs, then the Man of sin is revealed. It seems that many Will Fall away Just prior to the day of the Lord, but who does this happen to? Those that are going through the "tribulation" The revealing of the man of sin, which occurs after the falling away, doesn't occur as He comes to power, but occurs at the end of His reign. One Must understand what that term Revealed truly Means. From Strongs Greek G575 To take off the cover That is "disclose". The true identity of Who the false Messiah is claiming to be, occurs at the end of the tribulation Period. Remember, That day shall not come untill, the man of Sin Is revealed. This is not to say that he hasn't been ruling aready. What is being meant, is, His true identity is made Known.

Now we have a problem, a big one. DAniel 9 states that "seventy weeks are determined on "thy People and the Holy City" If the day of the Lord begins "midweek" like everyone has thought, then hasn't the Lord "shortchanged" His people by 3 1/2 years? The time of jacob's trouble (tribulation) is exactly that. It encompasses the entire final seven year period. The Day of the Lord cannot begin, until "immediately After the tribulation of those days" (matt. 24:29)

The majority of "doctrinal Bickering" that occurs today, stems from, one not seperating the Day of the Lord from the "tribulation Period." The Last thing that occurs Before the day of the Lord Occurs, is the Real identity of the FAlse Messiah is made known. This being true, Places the 42 month reign of the False messiah in the Last half of the 70th week. Daniel 12:11 bears this out:

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And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away (we know this occurs in the midst of the week), AND THE ABOMINATION THAT MAKETH DESOLATE SET UP, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days.

This is a 3 1/2 year time split between the two events. This properly places the abomination of Desolation at Not only the end of the 42 month reign of the false Messaih, but also the end of the 70th week. Jesus said, "when ye therefore see the abomination of desolation," then there shall be a time of trouble, such as was not.

Most doctrinal discoarses today, have accepted the theory that the 70th week consists of 3 1/2 years of Peace, then 3 1/2 years of war. The exact opposite is true. What did Jesus state, would first occur? There would be "wars and rumors of Wars," but the end is not yet. If one objectively Looks at the order of events in Revelation, we witness the very same order. We witness things getting progessively worse through the seals (1/4th of humanity destroyed), and the trumpets (1/3 of Humanity destroyed) which leads to the description of the 42 month reign of the false Messiah. This is followed by the vials of the wrath of God, and His return. The true 70th week consists of "birthpains", wars and rumors of wars, with the climactic Battle of Ezekiel 38 occuring in the "midst" of the week. This is followed by the 42 month reign of the false Messiah, with the abomination of desolation occuring at the END of His reign.. This of coarse Brings in the "great tribulation", or the Day of the Lord.

What is the day of the Lord for, and what does the Lord first do? He not only Pours out His wrath on those who swore allegience with the false Messiah, he pays back for what has been done to His people in the 70th week. Remember, 70 weeks are determined on "HIs People" What occurs after, is not directed to his people, for we are not destined for God's Wrath!

If one can set aside their doctrine for a moment, and objectively Look at what I just shared, you will also realize, this RECONCILES ALL FOUR RAPTURE THEORIES! Is the "harvest" pre-great tribulation"? yes. Does it occur after the 7 years? Yes! Does it occur at the time of the abomination of Desolation? Yes! and Is it pre wrath? YES![indent]

The tribulation period is a time of Trouble all believers will go through. Paul staed multiple times that we would suffer "tribulation." This However, mustn't be confused with the day of the Lord, and His wrath!

Josh,


Thanks for a good post.

In order for pretribulationism to be non-contradictory, the experts had to change the meaning of the "Day of the Lord" from the Great day of His "post trib" return, (to remove His saints and do battle), to the entire tribulation period.


SW

I can't comment and State that this was Purposely done or not. I consider it more of a "mislabeling" of the the 70th week. I like to label the 70th week, what it truly is, "the time of Jacob's trouble". this mustn't be confused with what occurs Immediately after, to those who WILL face the wrath of God. This Mislabeling of the time period is mistake #1 that was made. The second mistake, is assuming the stopping of the sacrifices, and the abomination of desolation, occur simultaineoulsy. If one did Make this conclusion, it is easy to see WHY they think the last half of the 70th week is the day of The Lord. DAniel 12:11 refutes this, and Places events in their proper order. There is numerous other scriptures that refute this point of view.

[/indent]What is a harder message to accept? You will be taken out before anything occurs or, get ready Brothers and Sisters, we are heading for some very perilous times, in which, one may have to lay their Lives down for their testimony. I am not stating this to "scare" one, but to "prepare" one for what is coming. If I don't, then I am not doing what the Lord called me to do! Lets face it, we have an enemy that Just loves to "lull us to sleep", to catch us unprepared, and unaware of what is occuring.

The Lord stated we are not destrined for His wrath. This is true. we are also promised to be "kept" from the hour of Temptation". KNowing the truth of what will actually occur, will do that. Daniel 11:33 Speaks of these people.[indent]

One of the biggest "oversights" of Prophetical teaching today, is the Lord promised His people 70 weeks of Years. If the day of the Lord began anywhere within the final 7 year period, the Lord will have broken His promise, and Cut short the time Period He had promised to His people for repentance. The DAy of the Lord, the "great tribulation period", which follows the final 7 year period, is not determined for His people. It is retribution for what has occured TO his People, in the final seven years.