I asked all you rapture people the same thing,,,,,,

Will the rapture happen before antichrist/satan is revealed,,,,,one of the biggest rapture groupies "Stephen" replyed with,,,"Absolutely"

So that means when Jesus said this :::::9But take heed to yourselves: for they shall deliver you up to councils; and in the synagogues ye shall be beaten: and ye shall be brought before rulers and kings for my sake, for a testimony against them.

10And the gospel must first be published among all nations.

11But when they shall lead you, and deliver you up, take no thought beforehand what ye shall speak, neither do ye premeditate: but whatsoever shall be given you in that hour, that speak ye: for it is not ye that speak, but the Holy Ghost.

That means that you rapture people will already be gone,,,,,,,,

So if the elects will be here on earth giving a testimony against the antichrist and the system,,,then what the heck are you rapture people doing????? You guys are saying you will be gone,,,Christ is saying the true christians will be here,,,,any explanations????


Well even if there is a rapture which theres not,,,if you were to get raptured you are weak or at least your not what God considers a elect...

Nightmare, I have been asking myself the same question for years and would love to know the answer if anyone has one here. I have been asking God too, and so far nothing. Good question. I personally feel we will be here.

LOL. That was pretty funny. Lol.

NM vs the Rapture, lol. Lol.

Gideon said
It is a lot of reading but read the Blessed hope thread if you have not already. Maybe you can find many answers there. I am still working on it and will give more proof for a post trib rapture, or immortalization and wedding with Christ. It is all Bible.

Thanks Gideon!

It seems there's some confusion about God's ELECT... there's clearly 3 different ELECT groups... the Jewish children of PROMISE...

the CHURCH... and of course His ANGELS. Many times in scripture God is speaking directly to the Jewish people... those that believe in Christ

as their saviour belong to the church where there is no race or gender but of one spirit in Christ.


taltimbr

Remeber the word of God is simple.....Also it shouyld not take much reading if it is written,,,I will wait and see what you come up with but,,,,I got plenty of ammo friend,,,this was just the the tip of the iceberg,,,,if anyone who believes in the rapture is having trouble answering this,,,,then ,,well you gonna have big troubles with my other points.......

And the best thing about it,,,,im going to keep it nice and simple so everyone can understand even little ones

Excellent question.....

I'm post trib and not too worried about rapture when how or whatever, but, since the question is out there. LOl.

This is us coming out of heaven -

Rev 21:2 And I saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, made ready as a bride adorned for her husband.

So, if we're coming down, when did we go up?

I never believed in a rapture because if the church disappears, who is left? I thought the Church was supposed to remain to help the lost. If we go anywhere, it will be to our neighbor in need.

Another....Excellent question.....

"the "dead in CHRIST" SHALL RISE FIRST.... uhhh.. sounds like an oxymoron to me!! If to be absent from the body, is to be present with the Lord, then who is the "dead in Christ" take the weak, leave the Worriers!! We will be here through the 70th week, and be "harvested" at the end before the vials of the wrath of God is poured out. This occurs in Rev 14.

My opinion on this is that God is always the same. He has always protected his people from great catastrophe and I think He will continue to do so. He took out Lot and his family from Sodom and Gomorrah before destroying it, He took out Noah and his family before the flood, so it makes me wonder if He would actually leave us here for something as terrible as the tribulation. And another thing is, if we were still here, wouldn't we automatically be able to point out the antichrist and have spiritual power over the evil that was to take over? I am still fairly uneducated on these things and could be totally on the wrong track, that is just my 2 cents for the moment.....

"So if the elects will be here on earth giving a testimony against the antichrist and the system,,,then what the heck are you rapture people doing????? You guys are saying you will be gone,,,Christ is saying the true christians will be here,,,,any explanations????"

You do not know who the "elect" are in the Lord's discourse related to the time of the end and that is where you error. Again Murray has you in disaray. He refuses to understand national Israel's involvement at the time of the end. He is a replacement theologist and a racist. He is anti-semitic and he is a false prophet and teacher.

Readers beware of such diabolical thinking. Nightmare follows a false teacher and he is completely blinded by Arnold Murray's invented serpent seed doctrine.

Yes we are watchman and we are the salt of the earth.......

doesn't the "elect"refer to a group of 144,000? If those people were only "christians" wouldn't that mean that the entire earth only had 144,000 saved people? I think that we are raptured before the tribulation and God sends 144,000 people plus the 2 witnesses to spread His word. Is there anything in the bible that says that the "elect" aren't angels themselves, or people that lived on earth before? I am actually so confused, someone help!

I agree God does protect,,,but Hes not going to protect us by flying us out of here.....SeekingHim' we are protected because we have the seal of God in our foreheads(brains) Christians should know that satan will come first,,,pretending to be Christ and fool the whole world,,,except elects.....The tribulation is a spiritual one,,,if your looking for literal stars to fall and mountains to move you are trippin.......Yes some will be able to point out the antichrist,,,those will be the one delivered up to give a testiomy against him....But friend satan has supernatural powers,,,look at the pope ,,how many worship the pope,,,and he has not made lightning from heaven,,,,satan will trick the world.......Well its ok to be uneducated on these things,,,just dont stay uneducated........

I'm here aren't I?

Let's not use the term "rapture" but instead the "First Resurrection"

...one wave or two waves?

Two waves.


The first wave of the first resurrection of the elect, that are ready, of whom it written here:
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?searc...&version=9;

I believe the first wave will occur before the Great Tribulation. (The number is few as per: http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?searc...&version=9; )


The second wave of the first resurrection occurs later here:

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?searc...&version=9;

they are mentioned again here, as being part of the first resurrection:

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?searc...&version=9;

...two waves...first resurrection, one harvest.


I will try and write more about this later.

Danka Shien

Yes I know who the elects are,,,actually the days of the tribulation have been shortened for them,,,,I understand Israel just fine.....

Nah nah nah nightmare follows a false teacher,,,,blah blah blah so on and so on,,,,I follow no man,,,,Arnold Murray is white I am black/?????? so how could we agree,,,,my relatives and family were heavy into the black movement thinks like the black panthers,,,,Martin Luther,,,,,,Underground railroad study's and more.....

But that doesnt matter anyway since I dont listen to him,,,,,He comes on at like 2 in the morning where I stay,,,I cant stay up that long I gotta go to work in the morning......


Hey Stephen we are all loving all the scripture you provided.....

No need to talk bad about me let the people hear our doctrines and they can decide for themselfs.....

The 144000 are sealed from the 12 tribes,,,,,,,Have you ever read this scripture????

Revelation 7:9
After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;

Revelation 7:14
And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

The 2 witts are elects,,,,No elects are not angels they are people down on earth,,,,remember Christ said he shortened the days for the elects if they were angels he would not need to do this......

So if the 144,000 people are the elect coming out if the trib, where are the Christians? They did not come out of the great trib because they didnt go through it..... I think.

With regards to mankind there is only one elect, that is those that will be raised from the dead or rapture to clouds to meet the Lord in the air After the Great Tribulation is over. God will then proceed to pour his wrath on Satan and all them that dwell on earth, whos names are not written in the Lambs book of Life slain from the foundation of the world. The group or elect will consist of Abel, Adam Abraham, Isac, Jacob, Lot, David, Mathew, Mark, Luke John, Martin Luther, Gideon, AW Tozer, Justin Martyr, and any saint that has put faith in the Christ their God for savation throuhout the ages of earth, from the foundation thereof. These are the elect. The church became the elect after Christ died and rose again, but this did not cease or prevent Israel and its believers from being part of that remnant. We all together shall be caught up in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, in the last time, at the end of the age.

this is what i am looking at know and nightmare brother you hit the mark

i am going to just be a student hear and if i feel led i will add things to this topic i am jotting what is being discussed

this is what i hate when ever these rapture freaks prop up trying to scare new chrsitians just look at the topics in this forum on rapture alone

what i am noticing rapture freaks or supporters will not agree with post trib supporters

the question nightmare has asked should not be put to the side were we start cussing and calling some one a false christian

i have read all the books on rapture i even went over a new topic that was introduced to this forum to were some one thinks your goverment has a blue list and red list and on these lists wil be the ones that wil be executed killed


at first i too was more on the rapture side but my views changed to the point were i had given away what i had


i am know taking my time and i am alowing the holy spirit to guide me i tend know not to listen to what is being pressented


so as a good student i will shut up and come to this topic to learn and see if some one can answer the question nightmare put honestly



for me i believe we wil be hear instead of raptured



God bless from damo

Maybe rapture will crush nightmare...left alone in the dark while us pie in the sky types fly...

RIGHT ON NIGHTMARE KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK!!!!!

What do you consider to be the great trib???? I bet it is when satan/antichrist is here on earth???? So even though God has told you put on the full armor you think you will be able to avoid the battle?????Why does a person put on armor????

We need are armor on in this generation because we will face that false one.....But you still believe Christ will come take you before satan comes?????

1Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,

2That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.

3Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

4Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

Do you see???Christ will not return until satan is revealed......

SeekingHim We do not run from satan......We have a job to do

This thread is based on someone that believes in the rapture proving me wrong about it....

YOU FAILED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Hey if you wanna fly off while real Christians are doing the work then by all means,,,to bad you will be flying right into the arms of the antichrist,,,have a nice trip.........

I see you posted a bunch of pictures instead of scriptures.......

When I first started working with God I was the first out my group and I believed in the rapture,,,,I told friends about it,,,,I defended it,,,but I was wrong,,,and when your wrong you change,,,,especially when it comes down to GOd...

Im not some over the top scripture expert,,,I post logical questions,,,I admit I have a way of trapping people in there words...but thats because Christ did it and I can copy the way he did it....

See 1 of the many problems with the rapture Damo is that pre-tribbers (I hate titlse why do we label??) But the problem with pre-tribers is they say that they will meet Christ in the clouds,,,before antichrist/satan returns...

Which means Christ is going to return before satan,,,,,,,,I HATE THAT!!!!!!!! FREAKIN HATE IT......

There basically telling people,,,, that when you see the 1st person thats saying there hear to fly you away go with them.....

But lets look at the word??????

1Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,

2That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.

3Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

4Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

Christ is not coming back until satan is revealed in his role as "The antchrist" ,,,Satan comes first dont follow him........

But really this is the most exciting time on earth,,,, Christians should be ready to face Lucifer for his time is short.......Armor

You seem,,,not to be feeling ok It will be over soon

Hey Earendel

Im very familiar with that scripture and if your trying to say that means you will be raptured it wont fly.....And this is why....

Rev. 3:10 Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.

The word translated temptation here is the Greek word peirasmos (Strong's No. 3986) and this is the only time that it is used in Revelation. Peirasmos (temptation) has its roots in the Greek verb peirazo (Strong's No. 3985) and it basically means to test, but also to tempt. It was used by Matthew when he described the temptation of Jesus by Satan in the wilderness.

Matthew 4:1 Then was Jesus led up of the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted (Gr.- peirazo) of the devil...

Dont you dudes get it.......Even Christ told the elects,,, that there in danger---now they will overcome bu,,t the antichrist is very tempting.....Christ even shortened the hour so we could make through......

Boy I will tell ya,,,,it seems you guys are ready to fly out of here,,,,because your worried about the return of satan to earth,,,you should be worried about the return of Christ...

Matthew 4:1 Then was Jesus led up of the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted (Gr.- peirazo) of the devil.

The son of perdition is revealed by the two witnesses; the same who slay him before his image comes back to life.

God tells you the exact sequence of the rapture. First the dead-the two witnesses and those dead in Christ who follow, then the living. I would imagine it would not be a good 3.5 days to be reveling and giving gifts for those who are God's children after the two witnesses die. It will be a time of great distress and testing because those who helped them will be gone.

Remember: the first will be last and the last will be first. This is the order of the rising of the dead in Christ. Two witnesses then back to Adam then what is left of the living Church.

2Th 2:1 ¶ Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and [by] our gathering together unto him,


2Th 2:2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.


2Th 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for [that day shall not come], except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

The "Dead in Christ" are people that have died,,,but overcame this flesh life...My mom did that....Will thy rise first???Of course,,,,,, they are with the Lord,,,,they will return with him.....You stated to be absent form the body is to be present with the Lord,,,TRUE.....But what side of the gulf are you on.....

Everyone that died are in heaven,,,,no-one is 6 feet under chilling ,,, guess I better add some scripture huh?

5Also when they shall be afraid of that which is high, and fears shall be in the way, and the almond tree shall flourish, and the grasshopper shall be a burden, and desire shall fail: because man goeth to his long home, and the mourners go about the streets:

6Or ever the silver cord be loosed, or the golden bowl be broken, or the pitcher be broken at the fountain, or the wheel broken at the cistern.

7Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

You ,ay break them up as you like,,,,but the fact still remains,,,you are not a elect if you follow the Antichrist......
And the elects will be here on earth dealing with satan/antichrist while,,,the other group of christians wanna play cloud picnic,,,,,After giving us a whole bible and preparing us,,,telling us about the locusts and the end,,, showing us how to put on are armor,,,and people think God is going to fly them outta hear,,,,what a interesting bunch of children God has

You miss the point. The spirits of the dead are with the Lord but they are not with the Lord bodily. The full body resurrection happens at the rapture. Those old bones will grow bodily and the spirits will descend into them.

That is why Jacob's bones were hauled back to Hebron. He wanted to rise bodily in his own land.

Nightmare, I'm giving you a heads-up now, tomorrow when I wake up, I will have plenty to come back at you with, so be prepared my brother. Until then, sweet dreams.... Hope You don't have any NIGHTMARES.

I'm still undecided!

But I worry that we aren't prepared... we need to be ready to pour out our lives as a drink offering for Him... who shed his blood for us... just as a Jewish bride would drink from the cup offered by her bridegroom, thus accepting the marriage, we need to be ready to accept whatever comes our way. Perhaps it will be a wonderful sacrifice???

If the rapture crowd are right, then great, we won't have to suffer... but if you think that all our actions have eternal reactions, think how glorious it will be to offer up our lives to our beloved Lord Jesus.

I wonder if the pre-trib rapture is right, the people left at the end as believers could be Jews who have accepted Christ, or they could be a remnant of people who converted after the rapture and did not receive the mark, but escaped to the wilderness.

Will people fall away if the rapture happens after the trib? Will this be the apostasy?

Yes God does protect people, but sometimes people are called to give their lives sacrificially. I think almost all (?) the apostles were martyrd and they saw this as a blessing and this sowed seeds for the early church to grow. I imagine many people being slaughtered in the trib but this speaking volumes to those undecided and thus many could come to faith. So although the trib looks like an awful thing to happen, it is actually a time when souls are saved.... a scarey time but that is something which will come to pass.

For the record:

NM has been given scripture after scripture and explanation after explanation supporting the biblical fact of the Lord's "harpazo" action to immortalize the Body of Christ which will occur just before the Lord's coming judgment begins

Readers can research the posts on this forum for this fact

All of MN's questions have been answered directly and correctly, but there is still refusal to listen by this person

MN's type of repetitive dialogue is a weak debating tactic of one who craves attention from others

NM still continues to refute and when one does not agree NM comes back with sorid ranting and reprobate responses

Readers need to take note of NM's behavior

There is really no need to continue to convince NM on this issue since the response will always be the same ranting behavior and the attempt to slip around the truth

NM has fallen for the leading of false teaching and is unable to disengage and to study the Lord's Word without this baggage

Nightmare....

Don't be caught off guard like in the parable of the Ten Virgins.

The rapture will happen and for those who are looking for His return.

But it is all in the Lords timing.

"Don't be caught off guard like in the parable of the Ten Virgins.

The rapture will happen and for those who are looking for His return.

But it is all in the Lords timing."

>Exactly

While I don't believe that the rapture happens before the tribulation, I do believe that there is a rapture to happen before Jesus walks the earth again.

There are other more severe errors a particular poster here holds to that are connected to this eschatological position that they are... well... "suggesting" here, to put it nicely. The serpent seed doctrine is one of them.

It is given to man to die once and then judgement...

I do believe in a "rapture" but in the rapture of our spiritual body our inner man, our soul....

That will never die, what is visible is temporal, and what is invisible is eternal.

Sooooo simple. And the good news is we don't have to be physicaly dead to experience the kingdom of God
since Jesus said it is in us now.

"Sooooo simple"

Too simple

Your manifestation cult beliefs are misleading you

Your position and belief on this issue places one's eternal salvation at risk

Believe this or not

I think it is very judgmental for you to assume that we are ready to "fly out" because we are worried. People have different beliefs, and that doesn't mean that we are cowards. And also why in the world should we be "worried" about the return of Christ? Who are you to judge our readiness for spiritual battle or where we are in our walk with the Lord? Please think about the things you are saying, they aren't nice and they aren't even true..........

I'll take a stab at that question with scriptures:

Right here:

Matthew 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: 30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Rev. 10:7 But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.


1 Thess. 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: 17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

And before this:

Rev. 15:7 And one of the four beasts gave unto the seven angels seven golden vials full of the wrath of God, who liveth for ever and ever. 8 And the temple was filled with smoke from the glory of God, and from his power; and no man was able to enter into the temple, till the seven plagues of the seven angels were fulfilled.
Rev. 16:1 And I heard a great voice out of the temple saying to the seven angels, Go your ways, and pour out the vials of the wrath of God upon the earth. 2 And the first went, and poured out his vial upon the earth; and there fell a noisome and grievous sore upon the men which had the mark of the beast, and upon them which worshipped his image.

The wrath of God is poured out upon the Earth for one year (The DAY of the LORD), just as Noah was in the ark for one year (Gen. 7-8), after which, we step out of the ark (come back down to the Earth). The seven year tribulation just leads up to the grand departure.

Anyway, that's how I suspect it will happen at this point in my study of the scriptures.

In Christ,

Mike

.......They will prophesy against him,,,but they wont be the only ones....

Hey Chloe if there was a rapture,,,then I would go....But that means all the warnings Christ gave us go right out the window,,,He told you not to be decieved,,,,He told you 2 were in the field one was taken ,,,and not to be the one taken,,,He told you put on the full armor,,,,He told you satans trump is # 6 while Christ is # 7,,,,He told satan that he cant touch those with the seal of God in there foreheads,,,,,Why would he tell satan that if we have been raptured,,,come on its a fairytale...

My doctrine is the doctrine of Christ,,,not a serpent seed doctrine......

Does the serpent have a seed ???? WEll lets see:::::Gen. 3:15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.

God is telling satan he is going to put enmity between his(satans) seed,,,and the woman......

The word seed means sperm,,,,look it up,,,,,stop trying to strip the word,,, the serpent seed is mentioned by God himself,,,

and you didnt answer my question nor did you post scripture,,,for shame.....