QUOTE (Fere @ Sep 4 2008, 04:35 PM)

I am one of those few individuals that does not know if Jesus will come before the tribulation or after (or I should say if Christians will be here during the Tribulation). This is something I have been trying to figure out for a long time. Sometimes I think if He comes before (great, I am ready) and if He comes after then I will keep my faith during the tribulation if it occurs in my lifetime. I pray for understanding and knowledge on this. I believe it will be revealed to me in time or all of the sudden it will just "click". I read the books of Daniel, Revelation, Joel, Mark, Matthew, 1 Thess., & 2 Thess. often.
Hi Fere
The Lord is very clear on when he comes!!
there is no guessing or wondering!!
take the bible for what it is THE WORD OF GOD!!!
LET'S TAKE A LOOK!!!
we have two apostles letting us know when the Lord returns. your understanding from God will focus on the signs in the sky or the heaven. Let's focus on the sun, moon and stars.
We know Jesus comes after the GT this is written and we don't have to assume or concoct raptures doctrine. Mt 24:29
Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:30:
And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and
they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31: And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
Mk 13:24
But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light,25:
And the stars of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken.26:
And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.
27: And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.
Lets head to Revelation 6v 12: And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;
13: And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.
14: And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.
15: And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;
16: And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:
17: For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?
again we have the events in the sky happening and then the appearing of the Lord.
remember Fere we are reading this, no assuming, no guessing, no wondering.Let's go look at the prophets and gather more witnesses.Isa 13v
1: The burden of Babylon, which Isaiah the son of Amoz did see.
2: Lift ye up a banner upon the high mountain, exalt the voice unto them, shake the hand, that they may go into the gates of the nobles.
3: I have commanded my sanctified ones, I have also called my mighty ones for mine anger, even them that rejoice in my highness.
4: The noise of a multitude in the mountains, like as of a great people; a tumultuous noise of the kingdoms of nations gathered together: the LORD of hosts mustereth the host of the battle.
5: They come from a far country, from the end of heaven, even the LORD, and the weapons of his indignation, to destroy the whole land.
6:
Howl ye; for the day of the LORD is at hand; it shall come as a destruction from the Almighty.
7: Therefore shall all hands be faint, and every man's heart shall melt:
8: And they shall be afraid: pangs and sorrows shall take hold of them; they shall be in pain as a woman that travaileth: they shall be amazed one at another; their faces shall be as flames.
9:
Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, cruel both with wrath and fierce anger, to lay the land desolate: and he shall destroy the sinners thereof out of it.
10: For the stars of heaven and the constellations thereof shall not give their light: the sun shall be darkened in his going forth, and the moon shall not cause her light to shine.11: And I will punish the world for their evil, and the wicked for their iniquity; and I will cause the arrogancy of the proud to cease, and will lay low the haughtiness of the terrible
let's grab a so-called minor prophet, Habakkuk had big words for a so-called minor prophet.Hab 3v
1: A prayer of Habakkuk the prophet upon Shigionoth.
2: O LORD, I have heard thy speech, and was afraid: O LORD, revive thy work in the midst of the years, in the midst of the years make known; in wrath remember mercy.
3: God came from Teman, and the Holy One from mount Paran. Selah. His glory covered the heavens, and the earth was full of his praise.
4: And his brightness was as the light; he had horns coming out of his hand: and there was the hiding of his power.
5: Before him went the pestilence, and burning coals went forth at his feet.
6: He stood, and measured the earth: he beheld, and drove asunder the nations; and the everlasting mountains were scattered, the perpetual hills did bow: his ways are everlasting.
7: I saw the tents of Cushan in affliction: and the curtains of the land of Midian did tremble.
8: Was the LORD displeased against the rivers? was thine anger against the rivers? was thy wrath against the sea, that thou didst ride upon thine horses and thy chariots of salvation?
9: Thy bow was made quite naked, according to the oaths of the tribes, even thy word. Selah. Thou didst cleave the earth with rivers.
10: The mountains saw thee, and they trembled: the overflowing of the water passed by: the deep uttered his voice, and lifted up his hands on high.
11:
The sun and moon stood still in their habitation: at the light of thine arrows they went, and at the shining of thy glittering spear.12: Thou didst march through the land in indignation, thou didst thresh the heathen in anger.
13: Thou wentest forth for the salvation of thy people,
even for salvation with thine anointed; thou woundedst the head out of the house of the wicked, by discovering the foundation unto the neck. Selah.
15: Thou didst walk through the sea with thine horses, through the heap of great waters.
16: When I heard, my belly trembled; my lips quivered at the voice: rottenness entered into my bones, and I trembled in myself, that I might rest in the day of trouble: when he cometh up unto the people
, he will invade them with his troopsJob even spoke of this dayJob 14v
12: So man lieth down, and riseth not:
till the heavens be no more, they shall not awake, nor be raised out of their sleep.
13: O that thou wouldest hide me in the grave, that thou wouldest keep me secret, until thy wrath be past, that thou wouldest appoint me a set time, and remember me!
Jesus comes after the GT.
the signs the Lord left prior to his return will be seen in the heavens.
no guessing, no assuming, no wondering.
it is all written.