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Fere

I came across this and I found it useful since it has the scriptures listed for reference. Some might not consider certain verses as for rapture, but they were just outlined that way. Feel free to correct any, I did not make this outline.


How Jesus REALLY Returns

In Matt 24:3-5 Jesus' disciples asked him, "When will this happen, and what will be the sign of your coming and of the end of the age? Jesus answered: 'Watch out that no one deceives you. For many will come in my name claiming "I am
the Christ" and will deceive many.'"


Preconditions of His Return

Many false Christs will deceive many.
Matt 24:4-5,24, Mark 13:6,22, Luke 21:8

Wars and rumors of wars.
Matt 24:6, Mark 13:7, Luke 21:9-10

Famines, earthquakes, pestilence, fearful events, great signs from heaven. Matt 24:7, Mark 13:8, Luke 21:11, Rev 6:1-8,14, 8:5

--- Previous was just the beginning. Matt 24:9, Mark 13:7-8, Luke 21:9, Rev 6:11

Persecution of believers. Matt 24:9, Mark 13:9,11, Luke 21:12, Rev 6:9-11

Many will turn away from the faith and betray and hate each other.
Matt 24:10, Mark 13:12, Luke 21:16

Many false prophets will deceive many. Matt 24:5,11,24, Mark 13:6,22, 1 Tim 4:1-2, 2 Tim 4:3-4

Increase of wickedness and love of most will grow cold. Matt 24:12, 2 Tim 3:1-3

Gospel preached throughout the whole world. Matt 24:14, Mark 13:10. Note: Wycliff Bible translators and others are actively working on that.

An abomination that causes desolation in the holy place as Daniel spoke of (Dan 9:27 on the wing of the Temple in Jerusalem). Matt 24:15, Mark 13:14, 2 Thess 2:4. Note: There is not a temple in Jerusalem today.

About a month later (Dan 12:11 minus Rev 13:5) great distress. Matt 24:16-22, Mark 13:14-20, Luke 21:22-24, Rev 8:6-9:21

Jerusalem will be trampled on by the Gentiles for 3½ (lunar) years. Luke 21:24, Rev 11:2, Rev 13:15, Dan 12:6. Note: 2/3 of inhabitants killed (Zech 13:8)

Two witnesses will prophesy for 3½ (lunar) years. Rev 11:3

Believers taken care of for 3½ (lunar) years. Rev 12:7,14

This generation (or race) will not pass away until all this happens. Matt 24:34, Mark 13:30, Luke 21:32

Jesus' words will never pass away.
Matt 24:35, Mark 13:13, Luke 21:33

What to Watch for and Do
First, watch that no one deceives us.
Matt 24:4, Mark 13:5, Luke 17:23, 21:8

Stand firm [in Jesus] until the end.
Matt 24:13, Mark 13:13, Luke 21:19

If anyone says, "Look here is the Christ", do not believe it.
Matt 24:23-26, Mark 13:21, Luke 21:8

It will be as obvious as lightning flashing across the sky. Matt 24:27, Luke 17:24

Do not seek Christ in the desert, or in an inner room (prison?). Matt 24:26

Those in Judea must flee to the mountains when the abomination Daniel (9:27) described appears. Matt 24:16, Mark 13:14, Luke 21:21

Watch in the heavens. Matt 24:29-30, Mark 13:24-26, Is 13:10,34:4, Lk21:25-27

Come out of Babylon. Rev 18:4

Be alert, and don't be caught (spiritually) sleeping when Christ returns. Mk 13:33-37

Long for Christ's return. 2 Tim 4:8, Rev 22:17,20.

The Rapture
Angels will gather the elect in the rapture.
Matt 24:40-42, Mark 13:27, Luke 17:34-35, 1 Thess 4:16-18, Rev 14:14-16.

All nations will mourn and see Christ coming on the clouds in the sky with power and great glory. Mt24:30, Mk13:26, Rv1:7

No one will predict the day or hour of the rapture. Matt 24:36, Mark 13:32

How Jesus will Return
"the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from the sky and the heavenly bodies will be shaken." Matt 24:29, Mark 13:24-25, Is 13:10, 34:4, Luke 21:25, Rev 6:12-14

Christ (son of man) will appear in the sky. Matt 24:30, Mark 13:26, Rev 19:11-18.

Men will faint from terror, hiding in caves when Jesus comes. Luke 21:26, Rev 6:15

"Look, he is coming with the clouds, and every eye will see him, even those who pierced him; and all the peoples of the earth will mourn because of him. So shall it be! Amen." Rev 1:7

"I saw heaven standing open and there before me was a white horse whose rider is called Faithful and True. With justice he judges and makes war. His eyes are like blazing fire and on his head are many crowns. He has a name written on him that no one but he himself knows. He is dressed in a robe dipped in blood, and his name is the Word of God. The armies of heaven were following him, riding on white horses and dressed in fine linen, white and clean. Out of his mouth comes a sharp sword with which to strike down the nations. "He will rule them with an iron scepter." He treads the winepress of the fury of the wrath of God Almighty. On his robe and on his thigh he has this name written: KING OF KINGS AND LORD OF LORDS." Rev 19:1-16.

"They were looking intently up into the sky as he was going, when suddenly two men dressed in white stood beside them. ‘Men of Galilee,’ they said, ‘why do you stand here looking into the sky? This same Jesus, who has been taken from you into heaven, will come back in the same way you have seen him go into heaven.’" Acts 1:10-11
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This generation (or race) will not pass away until all this happens. Matt 24:34, Mark 13:30, Luke 21:32

My question is, what "generation" does this really refer to?


I have read 1948, 1967 ????
Stephen
Fere,

Briefly ....

He refers to those of the generation of national Israel that will be living in the land at the time of the end. He is speaking to believing Israelites in His discourse about their nation and what the nation will experience at the time of the end.... not the Church. His followers were Israelites and their concern was for their nation. The focus of His discourse in Matthew, Mark, and Luke is strictly about the generation of national Israel living at the time of the end. One must understand this truth in order to render correct end time exegesis.

The signs and events of the tribulation that will preclude His visible appearance after is one thing. His intervention to begin His coming judgment of the earth is another and this action will be 7 years earlier. One must understand that the Lord will be involved during the tribulation and not just at the end of it. The world will not see Him until the end of it, but will be aware that they are under His judgment.

Also, His "harpazo" action to immortalize the Church does not include a gathering by His angelics. He will do this Himself as the related verses plainly state, and just before the tribulation period begins. The gathering by His angelics is one which will occur at the end of the tribulation period and this is a gathering of residual mortals of Israel and of the nations who will survive the period. Read these verses carefully in Matthew 24 and 25 for understanding this truth. This gathering is not His action to immortalize the present Body of Christ. Those mortals who meet His requirements will enter and populate His millennial kingdom. Immortals do not reproduce.
Fere
Thanks. I will review these scriptures more.

I just like the references of this outline to certain scriptures. Not necessarily the bolded topics/which I grayed out some, since I know pre-trib & post-trib has different views.
Stephen
Fere,

I would suggest that you study the subject of the Lord's return to begin His day of judgment as well as His appearence at the end of it. This fact of His involvement in the entire period is missed by many, but is essential for understanding the time of the end.
Fere
I am one of those few individuals that does not know if Jesus will come before the tribulation or after (or I should say if Christians will be here during the Tribulation). This is something I have been trying to figure out for a long time. Sometimes I think if He comes before (great, I am ready) and if He comes after then I will keep my faith during the tribulation if it occurs in my lifetime. I pray for understanding and knowledge on this. I believe it will be revealed to me in time or all of the sudden it will just "click". I read the books of Daniel, Revelation, Joel, Mark, Matthew, 1 Thess., & 2 Thess. often.
Stephen
You are in the right books. You might want to add Micah [especially 4 and 5] and Zechariah view in 12,13, and 14 to your list for study.

The timing of His call for the Body of Christ is one thing ..... His involvement in His coming judgment is another. Once one discovers that He will personally bring the tribulation period [His hour of trial] against an unbelieving world, this will assist in determining the relative timing of His immoralization of His Church. He is the Lord. He brought a flood for destroying a world of unbelief in the past and He is going to do it again.
ozell
QUOTE (Fere @ Sep 4 2008, 04:35 PM) *
I am one of those few individuals that does not know if Jesus will come before the tribulation or after (or I should say if Christians will be here during the Tribulation). This is something I have been trying to figure out for a long time. Sometimes I think if He comes before (great, I am ready) and if He comes after then I will keep my faith during the tribulation if it occurs in my lifetime. I pray for understanding and knowledge on this. I believe it will be revealed to me in time or all of the sudden it will just "click". I read the books of Daniel, Revelation, Joel, Mark, Matthew, 1 Thess., & 2 Thess. often.


Hi Fere

The Lord is very clear on when he comes!!

there is no guessing or wondering!!

take the bible for what it is THE WORD OF GOD!!!

LET'S TAKE A LOOK!!!

we have two apostles letting us know when the Lord returns. your understanding from God will focus on the signs in the sky or the heaven. Let's focus on the sun, moon and stars.
We know Jesus comes after the GT this is written and we don't have to assume or concoct raptures doctrine.


Mt 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30: And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31: And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Mk 13:24 But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light,
25: And the stars of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken.
26: And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.
27: And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.

Lets head to Revelation 6v

12: And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;
13: And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.
14: And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.
15: And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;
16: And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:
17: For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

again we have the events in the sky happening and then the appearing of the Lord.

remember Fere we are reading this, no assuming, no guessing, no wondering.


Let's go look at the prophets and gather more witnesses.

Isa 13v
1: The burden of Babylon, which Isaiah the son of Amoz did see.
2: Lift ye up a banner upon the high mountain, exalt the voice unto them, shake the hand, that they may go into the gates of the nobles.
3: I have commanded my sanctified ones, I have also called my mighty ones for mine anger, even them that rejoice in my highness.
4: The noise of a multitude in the mountains, like as of a great people; a tumultuous noise of the kingdoms of nations gathered together: the LORD of hosts mustereth the host of the battle.
5: They come from a far country, from the end of heaven, even the LORD, and the weapons of his indignation, to destroy the whole land.
6: Howl ye; for the day of the LORD is at hand; it shall come as a destruction from the Almighty.
7: Therefore shall all hands be faint, and every man's heart shall melt:
8: And they shall be afraid: pangs and sorrows shall take hold of them; they shall be in pain as a woman that travaileth: they shall be amazed one at another; their faces shall be as flames.
9: Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, cruel both with wrath and fierce anger, to lay the land desolate: and he shall destroy the sinners thereof out of it.
10: For the stars of heaven and the constellations thereof shall not give their light: the sun shall be darkened in his going forth, and the moon shall not cause her light to shine.
11: And I will punish the world for their evil, and the wicked for their iniquity; and I will cause the arrogancy of the proud to cease, and will lay low the haughtiness of the terrible

let's grab a so-called minor prophet, Habakkuk had big words for a so-called minor prophet.

Hab 3v
1: A prayer of Habakkuk the prophet upon Shigionoth.
2: O LORD, I have heard thy speech, and was afraid: O LORD, revive thy work in the midst of the years, in the midst of the years make known; in wrath remember mercy.
3: God came from Teman, and the Holy One from mount Paran. Selah. His glory covered the heavens, and the earth was full of his praise.
4: And his brightness was as the light; he had horns coming out of his hand: and there was the hiding of his power.
5: Before him went the pestilence, and burning coals went forth at his feet.
6: He stood, and measured the earth: he beheld, and drove asunder the nations; and the everlasting mountains were scattered, the perpetual hills did bow: his ways are everlasting.
7: I saw the tents of Cushan in affliction: and the curtains of the land of Midian did tremble.
8: Was the LORD displeased against the rivers? was thine anger against the rivers? was thy wrath against the sea, that thou didst ride upon thine horses and thy chariots of salvation?
9: Thy bow was made quite naked, according to the oaths of the tribes, even thy word. Selah. Thou didst cleave the earth with rivers.
10: The mountains saw thee, and they trembled: the overflowing of the water passed by: the deep uttered his voice, and lifted up his hands on high.

11: The sun and moon stood still in their habitation: at the light of thine arrows they went, and at the shining of thy glittering spear.

12: Thou didst march through the land in indignation, thou didst thresh the heathen in anger.
13: Thou wentest forth for the salvation of thy people, even for salvation with thine anointed; thou woundedst the head out of the house of the wicked, by discovering the foundation unto the neck. Selah.
15: Thou didst walk through the sea with thine horses, through the heap of great waters.
16: When I heard, my belly trembled; my lips quivered at the voice: rottenness entered into my bones, and I trembled in myself, that I might rest in the day of trouble: when he cometh up unto the people, he will invade them with his troops

Job even spoke of this day

Job 14v
12: So man lieth down, and riseth not: till the heavens be no more, they shall not awake, nor be raised out of their sleep.
13: O that thou wouldest hide me in the grave, that thou wouldest keep me secret, until thy wrath be past, that thou wouldest appoint me a set time, and remember me!

Jesus comes after the GT.

the signs the Lord left prior to his return will be seen in the heavens.

no guessing, no assuming, no wondering.

it is all written.


ozell

Jesus CANNOT return before the signs in the heavens

The Father said unto him

Mt 22:44 The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, till I make thine enemies thy footstool?

when will Jesus enemies become his footstool?

after the GT
after the sun is darkened , the moon turns to blood and the heavens roll back like a scroll.

MMarc
Mk 13:24 But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light,
25: And the stars of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken.
26: And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.
27: And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.


Many discern angels (stars from heaven) on earth as we speak, the powers of heaven shall be shaken (Satan and the 3rd of his angels being cast out) this occurs at the beginning of the millenial reign since Satan is tied down for a thousand years...

Jesus will suddenly come into His temple like lightning, to come like lightning is a spiritual coming a sudden coming...

I believe there is a difference between the time of His coming and the time of His revelation to the world.

I say this because the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy, when Jesus came the first time He was on earth 30 years before being revealed to the world....Even then no one recognise Jesus unless it was by the Holy Spirit.
"No one proclaims Jesus as Lord unless it is of the Holy Spirit..."

So I sense even if Jesus is revealed to the world as all eyes will see Him I doubt all eyes will recognise Him, like the first time.
Because Jesus said not to believe anyone who says He is Christ and not go when people say look here or look there.

So the only way to recognise Jesus is with spiritual eyes and ears "my sheep hear my voice".

For Jesus to be recongnised in the flesh the rulers established churches of the world (pope, anglicans Lutherans etc) would have to publicly acknowledge Him, by throwing the crowns at His feet.

Only then would the carnal world with natural eyes would recongnise Jesus, only then will there be true unity in the body of Christ at large...

Stephen
The Lord's hour [time] of trial will begin with His wrath and will end 7 years later at His appearing. These two passages of scripture are different and separated by time lapse. They are not the same and the discerning and careful reader will understand this truth.

Beginning - Revelation

The beginning of the tribulation of those days [note 6:17]

Earthquake [note 8:5]

Darkness caused by the destruction on the earth [note 8:7-13]

Stars [Satan and the fallen angelics] falling to the earth [note 9:1-21, 12:4,9]

Humans intransigent attitude and their hiding from the Lord's coming wrath [note 8:7-13, 9:1-21, 16:1-21]

No sign of the Son of Man

Earth dwellers do not see Him

No gatherings


Ending - Matthew

After the tribulation of those days [note 24:29]

No earthquake [note Revelation 16:18 and Ezekiel 38:19. This quake at Armageddon will occur just before the end of the tribulation]

Darkness caused by the cosmic disturbances. [note 24:29]

Stars [cosmic] falling because of the cosmic disturbances [note 24:29]. Not to the earth .... just one would obliterate the earth.

Sign of the Son of Man appears [note 24:39]

Earth dwellers see Him [note 24:30]

Humans mourn when they see Him [note 24:30]

Gatherings of the surviving mortal elect of Israel and of the nations that are left [note 24:31, 25:31]
ozell

Rev 6v
12: And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;
13: And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.
14: And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.
15: And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;
16: And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:
17: For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

The stars of heaven in Rev6 is not referring to the angels. The angels that fell to earth, fell before adam time.

Peter tell us what stars fell.

2Pt 3:
9: The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

10: But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

11: Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,

12: Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
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