I figure he is the man.

Larry,

It is to soon to tell as of yet...many Americans are afraid of him. The one marjority vote he does have is with the young adult. So many of them will be voting while attending colleges...These youngsters...to young to remember history...some of these youngsters don't even know what the American Constititution says...and sad to say they haven't studied the individual candidates platforms. On the other side of the coin we have the retired American citizen...sad to say that so many of them will not be voting because they really believe..."Their only gonna do what they want to anyway." So they refuse to vote. Then we have the people who don't vote but they are the first to complain if something in government goes wrong. I believe that unless you vote then you don't have the right to complain.

"It is not the critic who counts, not the man who points out how the strong man stumbled, or where the doer of deeds could have done better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena; whose face is marred by the dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs and comes short again and again...who knows the great enthusiasms, the great devotions and spends himself in a worthy course; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly; so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who know neither victory nor defeat."
Theodore Roosevelt

Gods Blessings,

Al

He's no man, he's a punk. There I said it and I'll never apologize for it. AND he will lose in a landslide.

This guy has no problem supporting babies born alive after an abortion attempt to be killed. This goes way beyond the debate of when life begins.

And this simply CANNOT be allowed.

Obama can and will get in unless we as a Conservative Party stick together. Obama happens to be the media golden boy and they are backing him. The media is not in the least bit unbiased and they are actively working to brainwash our youth on how great Obama is. But we on the Republican side of the ticket have got to be able to clearly see the problems on our side of the fence and then look for solutions. The Republicans have been sweeping problems under the carpet instead of just cleaning up the messes. Republicans need to start cleaning up messes instead of hiding them.

Gods Blessings,

Al

This is pretty much why I made the OP in the first place...

I am not qualified to speak to the degree I can be nothing more than an interested bystander. I am a Canuck...we have our own bozos. But I have to wonder why the vehemence towards Obama? If that were as evident in the country at large as it is on this forum, he could not hope to succeed...or to have gotten this far...I have to wonder what charisma is involved to have allowed that...or is it strength and focus? Is he really the final dire end of a supposed lineage of warmongers or someone who will sell the USA out to foreign oppressors? I watch CNN a lot...I see him as pretty affable, and yes...likeable as a person in the way he presents...articulate and well spoken with apparent goals and objectives that seem to speak as they ought to speak...with the overall good of America in mind. I have to wonder if he is the craptator he is made out to be. I am intrigued by all of this as it seems to have transcended all previous campaigns in the apparent vehemancy towards it's incumbents....

Larry,

Reasons why I do not want Obama as President...

1. Inexperienced
2. Was a member of a hate filled and racist church for 20 years
3. Will grow Government
4. Will socialize America
5. Will grow the Welfare State
6. Will make cuts in the Defense Department
7. He will continue to support a runaway spending trend by our politicians
8. He believes that a compromise can be found between pro-choice and pro-life groups (How can life be compormised?)
9. On a fact sheet he was ranked most liberal in Senate
10. He promised to repeal the Patriot Act and than he voted for it

Some of his stands remains neutral. Such as gun control. He respects the 2nd ammendment and yet he thinks that local gun controls are okay.

And Larry? Obama does have Muslim roots.

Gods Blessings,

Al

I concur with all of this...

Do you have a sentiment to share regarding Maclean...itemized as this is here? This is a comprehensive overview for a guy like me....

To be honest with you; I don't like McCain either. He is only a moderate Conservative. I became dischanted with McCain when he co-authored and supported McCain/Feingold legislation which attempts to place a gag order to muffle critics and is in direct violation of the first ammendment. John McCain also supports free trade.

Plus, I associate McCain with Bush and at this present time this is not a good thing. Bush has continued to strip away our freedoms one by one, and I haven't seen McCain attempt to stop these abuses.

But I am waiting...I wouldn't be surprised if Martial Law is declared and this election delayed.

Gods Blessings,

Al

I am not one that likes to get into Political issues but.........

Honestly, I am not pleased with either candidate. I would rather see McCain in office over Obama for sure. I have a sickening, horrible gut feeling that if Obama is elected, it will turn out to be horrendous for the US. McCain is not much better, but something about Obama underneath the surface worries me.

I just received this in an email, I have not verified the validity in it, but I am going to post it.
===============================================


A pilot's perspective on Obama


....DO I HAVE THIS STRAIGHT?


HIS FATHER WAS A BLACK AFRICAN MUSLIM FROM KENYA . WE HAVE SEEN PICTURES OF HIS AFRICAN FAMILY.


HIS MOTHER WAS A WHITE AMERICAN ATHEIST FROM KANSAS . WHERE ARE THE PICTURES OF HIS AMERICAN FAMILY?


HIS FATHER DESERTED HIS MOTHER WHEN HE WAS ONLY TWO YEARS OLD AND WENT BACK TO AFRICA BY WAY OF HARVARD UNIVERSITY . HOW? WAS HIS FATHER WEALTHY?


HIS MOTHER MARRIED AN INDONESIAN MUSLIM AND THEN MOVED TO JAKARTA WHERE HE WAS ENROLLED IN A MUSLIM SCHOOL


WHEN HE REACHED HIGH SCHOOL AGE HIS MOTHER SENT HIM TO HAWAII TO BE WITH HIS WHITE GRANDPARENTS AND HE WAS PUT INTO AN EXPENSIVE PRIVATE SCHOOL. HE LATER WENT TO HARVARD UNIVERSITY . HOW? WERE HIS GRANDPARENTS RICH?


HE LIVES IN A $1.4 MILLION HOUSE OBTAINED THROUGH A DEAL WITH A WEALTHY FUNDRAISER. HOW?


HE 'WORKED' AS A CIVIL RIGHTS ACTIVIST IN CHICAGO . HE HAS NEVER HELD A PRODUCTIVE JOB OR RECEIVED A PAY CHECK THAT WAS NOT GOVERNMENT-FUNDED AND/OR TAYPAYER SUPPORTED.


THE PRESIDENCY IS NOT A CIVIL RIGHTS POSITION, NOR IS IT SUBJECT TO AFFIRMATIVE ACTION SET ASIDES; ON-THE-JOB TRAINING WON'T CUT IT.


HE ENTERED POLITICS AT THE STATE LEVEL AND THEN THE NATIONAL LEVEL WHERE HE HAS MINIMAL EXPERIENCE.


HE IS PROUD OF HIS 'AFRICAN HERITAGE' (A FATHER WHO GOT A GIRL PREGNANT AND DESERTED HER).


WHERE IS THE PRIDE IN HIS 'WHITE HERITAGE'? (A MOTHER WHO FLAUNTED CONVENTION AND DID NOT BELIEVE IN GOD).


SOME MIGHT THINK THERE WAS NOT MUCH TO BE PROUD OF EITHER WAY.


HE BELONGS, AND HAS BELONGED FOR OVER 20 YEARS, TO AN 'AFRO-CENTRIC' CHURCH IN CHICAGO THAT HATES WHITES, HATES JEWS, AND BLAMES AMERICA FOR ALL THE WORLD'S PERCEIVED FAULTS. (INCLUDING CREATING THE AIDS VIRUS IN ORDER TO INFLICT IT ON AFRICANS).


HE REPEATEDLY WHITEWASHES THE PASTOR, HIS CHURCH AND THE MEMBERS WHO CHEERED AFTER HEARING VITRIOLIC TIRADES AGAINST AMERICA ..


HE COULD NOT CONFRONT HIS PASTOR BUT HE WANTS US TO BELIEVE HE CAN CONFRONT NORTH KOREA AND IRAN?

YEAH RIGHT ! !


DURING HIS VERY BRIEF TIME IN THE UNITED STATES SENATE HE HAS MANAGED TO AMASS THE NUMBER ONE ULTRA LIBERAL VOTING RECORD OUT OF THE ONE HUNDRED MEMBERS.


HE HAS VOTED CONSISTENTLY FOR BIGGER GOVERNMENT AND HIGHER TAXES. HE HAS VOTED FOR BIG ENTITLEMENTS AND LEGISLATION THAT WOULD SEVERELY CURTAIL AMERICA 'S ABILITY TO FIGHT TERRORISM AND TO PROTECT OUR BORDERS AND OUR NATIONAL INTERESTS AROUND THE WORLD.


BUT, HE IS A GOOD ORATOR. ISN'T THAT A COMFORT?


YEAH, I THINK I SEE HOW WELL HE COULD UNITE THE COUNTRY.


I THINK THE TRUTH IS THAT HE HOPES NO ONE WILL PUT THE PIECES TOGETHER.


LADIES AND GENTLEMEN, LET ME INTRODUCE YOU TO OUR NEW CHIEF PILOT. HE HAS NEVER FLOWN AN AIRPLANE, IN FACT HE HAS NEVER EVEN SAT IN THE COCKPIT, BUT HE SAYS HE HAS RIDDEN ON PLANES BEFORE. WE ARE SURE HE WILL GUIDE US SAFELY THROUGH THE STORMS WE MAY ENCOUNTER ON THIS FLIGHT.


PEOPLE WHAT ARE YOU THINKING? HAVE YOU NEVER HEARD THE STORY ABOUT THE WOLF HIDING IN SHEEP'S CLOTHING SO HE CAN DESTROY THEM FROM WITH-IN ? THE HAND WRITING IS ON THE WALL, DO YOU NOT HAVE EYES TO SEE IT ?

THINK LONG AND HARD BEFORE YOU VOTE FOR THIS GUY! CONSIDER YOUR KIDS & GRANDKIDS.


THEIR FUTURE IS IN OUR VOTING HANDS.

Click to view attachment

Here is what happened to me, just today:

1.) The FBI listened in to one of my cell phone calls. I know it was them because I heard someone coughing in the background. I was trying to talk to my friend Mammud in Pakistan. He lives in the same moutain area that Bin Laden supposedly lives in. I was so mad about that!!!! How dare they?????

2.) I received a catalog from Haliburton selling fencing. What was strange was that the fencing was all over six feet tall and came with barbed wire.

3.) I was going to Wal-mart and then figured out that I was being watched by one of those black helicopters. They were most likely trying to beam microwaves into my brain to make me hear subconscious suggestions to just give up and report to a FEMA prison as soon as possible. When I got home I found an RID tag in the fish aquarium I bought there. I felt like someone was watching me. I had this strange feeling I was supposed to tape it to my forehead! Weird!

4.) I noticed that my guns had been rearranged this afternoon. I always put my AK-47 next to my M-16 and Weatherby Elk rifles, and found the M-16 first and then the AK-47 second. That means someone was examining them! Then I found a FEMA prison pamplet on the floor...spooky!

5.) There were three guys in a black car cruising past my house the other day. I didn't think about that until this very moment. One of them actually looked at me and said something. I felt a shiver.

6.) A little boy with a brown shirt came up to me and told me that he wanted me to be a "good citizen" and and donate to his club. I told him I did not have any cash on me, and he said that was okay. Then he took my picture. What was that all about?

7.) While I was praying for the people who have been affected by the hurricane this morning, and for those who might be affected by the others coming along soon, my daughter came into my bedroom and said her IPod would not turn off. I looked at it and noticed that it had been opened and then I knew - Haliburton electronics had been put into the device to monitor my family. I am going to have to return it back to Best Buy and get a new one now!

8.) I heard on CNN that all of the residents bussed out of New Orleans and other areas affected by the hurricane were actually being placed in shelters that MAY have been built by a contract given to Haliburton!

9.) I just saw a blog from Michael Moore that said that Bush was going to declare martial law and rescind Habius Corpus - even more than he did already by himself, without Congress's or Supreme Court's approval - right before November 2nd. He said that the hurricanes were part of a weather modification program to slowly funnel all of America into re-education camps. He said that Bush was the one who sent allof this up and that he was solely responsible.

10.) I received one of those kooky emails that tells you that Bush is actually the anti-christ. The whole anti-abortion stance, pro-family, anti-same sex marriage thing is nothing but a rouse! HE IS THE DEVIL!!!!!!!!!!!!

I am having fun with you, Al. But I really disagree with you - please name any rights you or anyone else has lost. Perhaps a we should do that on another thread, though.

gr82bsaved

This is what I feel in my spirit....

Esther = Palin

All of us who live in the United States and want to see our country protected and blessed need to rise up together and fast and pray for our
Nation.

Obama must be defeated.

For all we know....God has raised Sarah Palin up as He did Esther for "such a time as this."


Esther 4
Mordecai Persuades Esther to Help

1 When Mordecai learned of all that had been done, he tore his clothes, put on sackcloth and ashes, and went out into the city, wailing loudly and bitterly. 2 But he went only as far as the king's gate, because no one clothed in sackcloth was allowed to enter it. 3 In every province to which the edict and order of the king came, there was great mourning among the Jews, with fasting, weeping and wailing. Many lay in sackcloth and ashes.
4 When Esther's maids and eunuchs came and told her about Mordecai, she was in great distress. She sent clothes for him to put on instead of his sackcloth, but he would not accept them. 5 Then Esther summoned Hathach, one of the king's eunuchs assigned to attend her, and ordered him to find out what was troubling Mordecai and why.

6 So Hathach went out to Mordecai in the open square of the city in front of the king's gate. 7 Mordecai told him everything that had happened to him, including the exact amount of money Haman had promised to pay into the royal treasury for the destruction of the Jews. 8 He also gave him a copy of the text of the edict for their annihilation, which had been published in Susa, to show to Esther and explain it to her, and he told him to urge her to go into the king's presence to beg for mercy and plead with him for her people.

9 Hathach went back and reported to Esther what Mordecai had said. 10 Then she instructed him to say to Mordecai, 11 "All the king's officials and the people of the royal provinces know that for any man or woman who approaches the king in the inner court without being summoned the king has but one law: that he be put to death. The only exception to this is for the king to extend the gold scepter to him and spare his life. But thirty days have passed since I was called to go to the king."

12 When Esther's words were reported to Mordecai, 13 he sent back this answer: "Do not think that because you are in the king's house you alone of all the Jews will escape. 14 For if you remain silent at this time, relief and deliverance for the Jews will arise from another place, but you and your father's family will perish. And who knows but that you have come to royal position for such a time as this?"

15 Then Esther sent this reply to Mordecai: 16 "Go, gather together all the Jews who are in Susa, and fast for me. Do not eat or drink for three days, night or day. I and my maids will fast as you do. When this is done, I will go to the king, even though it is against the law. And if I perish, I perish."

17 So Mordecai went away and carried out all of Esther's instructions.

Esther 5
Esther's Request to the King

1 On the third day Esther put on her royal robes and stood in the inner court of the palace, in front of the king's hall. The king was sitting on his royal throne in the hall, facing the entrance. 2 When he saw Queen Esther standing in the court, he was pleased with her and held out to her the gold scepter that was in his hand. So Esther approached and touched the tip of the scepter.
3 Then the king asked, "What is it, Queen Esther? What is your request? Even up to half the kingdom, it will be given you."

4 "If it pleases the king," replied Esther, "let the king, together with Haman, come today to a banquet I have prepared for him."

5 "Bring Haman at once," the king said, "so that we may do what Esther asks."
So the king and Haman went to the banquet Esther had prepared. 6 As they were drinking wine, the king again asked Esther, "Now what is your petition? It will be given you. And what is your request? Even up to half the kingdom, it will be granted."

7 Esther replied, "My petition and my request is this: 8 If the king regards me with favor and if it pleases the king to grant my petition and fulfill my request, let the king and Haman come tomorrow to the banquet I will prepare for them. Then I will answer the king's question."

Haman's Rage Against Mordecai
9 Haman went out that day happy and in high spirits. But when he saw Mordecai at the king's gate and observed that he neither rose nor showed fear in his presence, he was filled with rage against Mordecai. 10 Nevertheless, Haman restrained himself and went home.
Calling together his friends and Zeresh, his wife, 11 Haman boasted to them about his vast wealth, his many sons, and all the ways the king had honored him and how he had elevated him above the other nobles and officials. 12 "And that's not all," Haman added. "I'm the only person Queen Esther invited to accompany the king to the banquet she gave. And she has invited me along with the king tomorrow. 13 But all this gives me no satisfaction as long as I see that Jew Mordecai sitting at the king's gate."
14 His wife Zeresh and all his friends said to him, "Have a gallows built, seventy-five feet [a] high, and ask the king in the morning to have Mordecai hanged on it. Then go with the king to the dinner and be happy." This suggestion delighted Haman, and he had the gallows built.


Esther 6
Mordecai Honored

1 That night the king could not sleep; so he ordered the book of the chronicles, the record of his reign, to be brought in and read to him. 2 It was found recorded there that Mordecai had exposed Bigthana and Teresh, two of the king's officers who guarded the doorway, who had conspired to assassinate King Xerxes.
3 "What honor and recognition has Mordecai received for this?" the king asked.
"Nothing has been done for him," his attendants answered.

4 The king said, "Who is in the court?" Now Haman had just entered the outer court of the palace to speak to the king about hanging Mordecai on the gallows he had erected for him.

5 His attendants answered, "Haman is standing in the court."
"Bring him in," the king ordered.

6 When Haman entered, the king asked him, "What should be done for the man the king delights to honor?"
Now Haman thought to himself, "Who is there that the king would rather honor than me?" 7 So he answered the king, "For the man the king delights to honor, 8 have them bring a royal robe the king has worn and a horse the king has ridden, one with a royal crest placed on its head. 9 Then let the robe and horse be entrusted to one of the king's most noble princes. Let them robe the man the king delights to honor, and lead him on the horse through the city streets, proclaiming before him, 'This is what is done for the man the king delights to honor!' "

10 "Go at once," the king commanded Haman. "Get the robe and the horse and do just as you have suggested for Mordecai the Jew, who sits at the king's gate. Do not neglect anything you have recommended."

11 So Haman got the robe and the horse. He robed Mordecai, and led him on horseback through the city streets, proclaiming before him, "This is what is done for the man the king delights to honor!"

12 Afterward Mordecai returned to the king's gate. But Haman rushed home, with his head covered in grief, 13 and told Zeresh his wife and all his friends everything that had happened to him.
His advisers and his wife Zeresh said to him, "Since Mordecai, before whom your downfall has started, is of Jewish origin, you cannot stand against him—you will surely come to ruin!" 14 While they were still talking with him, the king's eunuchs arrived and hurried Haman away to the banquet Esther had prepared.

Esther 7
Haman Hanged

1 So the king and Haman went to dine with Queen Esther, 2 and as they were drinking wine on that second day, the king again asked, "Queen Esther, what is your petition? It will be given you. What is your request? Even up to half the kingdom, it will be granted."
3 Then Queen Esther answered, "If I have found favor with you, O king, and if it pleases your majesty, grant me my life—this is my petition. And spare my people—this is my request. 4 For I and my people have been sold for destruction and slaughter and annihilation. If we had merely been sold as male and female slaves, I would have kept quiet, because no such distress would justify disturbing the king. [a] "

5 King Xerxes asked Queen Esther, "Who is he? Where is the man who has dared to do such a thing?"

6 Esther said, "The adversary and enemy is this vile Haman."
Then Haman was terrified before the king and queen. 7 The king got up in a rage, left his wine and went out into the palace garden. But Haman, realizing that the king had already decided his fate, stayed behind to beg Queen Esther for his life.

8 Just as the king returned from the palace garden to the banquet hall, Haman was falling on the couch where Esther was reclining.
The king exclaimed, "Will he even molest the queen while she is with me in the house?"
As soon as the word left the king's mouth, they covered Haman's face. 9 Then Harbona, one of the eunuchs attending the king, said, "A gallows seventy-five feet [b] high stands by Haman's house. He had it made for Mordecai, who spoke up to help the king."
The king said, "Hang him on it!" 10 So they hanged Haman on the gallows he had prepared for Mordecai. Then the king's fury subsided.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Got me going for a minute...

Awhile back (about 8 yrs ago), my husband had a dream about a black president (he had never seen before) walking down the streets of a large city with a ticker-tape parade and the black prez was waving with a broad smile on his face. My husband understood in the dream itself that these people really loved this president. What is also interesting is at the beginning of the dream, he saw our capital building looking exceptionally white...and the vision panned upward to show the flag at the top of the building, waving in the wind (all he could see was the flag at this point...then the scene changed over to the black prez).

I believe, regardless of whether Obama gets elected this time or not, he will eventually be president.

And, if our understanding is correct, it will be during his administration that our current government will come to an end (seeing the *pinnacle* of the US admin, shown in the dream as the Capital building, then the flag on top etc). Is it possible that Obama will be the last US president? Time will tell.

As far as political agendas go...yes, abortion is atrocious as well as partial birth abortion being outright disgustingly evil...but I also see other evils being committed... especially when it comes to war.

And I'd like to ask those who disagree with social programs... what is the problem with helping our own hurting poor in this country? Our nation is willing to over-spend outrageous amts of tax dollars on a war machine that brutally kills people and destroys...to what end? In sincerity, I don't understand the willingness or the overlooking of this issue...especially when you consider that the money which is being spent on (over-kill) war-machine expenditures COULD be used for much more noble causes. Dont' get me wrong...It is not wrong to have a well equipped, standing military...but HOW MUCH is literally necessary?

During the Bush admin, this country's economy has soured dramatically. Can you imagine what it's like for those making minimum wage? For every hour they work, OVER half of what they make must go to their gas tank alone! Imagine that....gas prices exceeding half of a person's hourly wage. Not to mention the soaring prices for EVERYTHING.

The callous attitude of those who are called as christians towards the poor in their own nation is also wrong.

I've also heard some christian Republicans complain about supporting the Social Security funds...I have news for them...that fund is an insurance that gets taken out of every person's paycheck and is there in case of disability and retirement for the elderly. It needs to be protected...(and something which is hardly EVER admitted, is that the SS fund wouldn't be running as low as it is IF the beaurocrats would keep their paws out of it...they treat it like a bank loan and use those funds for other purposes rather than keeping it strictly for what it was intended for...and that is downright evil).

I think it's about time for somebody to use the funds that the American tax payers are already dishing out to also benefit the American people...in sincerity.

God bless you all,
Kim

And Al,
We have speculated too about the current administration remaining in power longer than their term. Who knows.. if something major happened it could pan out.

I'm not big on conspiracy theories but I feel it needs to be said...there is enough evidence out there that there are many shady dealings going on in our govt to prove the point. One such instance is a CIA released document called "Operation Northwoods" where our govt was seriously considering sinking one of our own naval ships with thousands of our own sailors dying, assasinating Cuban-American citizens, burning businesses then blaming it on Cuba to start an invasion. This is nothing new, many govts have used these type of tactics to start wars and to give themselves a "righteous" reason for war in the sight of their own people.

Operation Northwoods can be found in the site "National Security Archives" as well as on Wikipedia.
God bless you,
Kim

Well, Larry, I gotta tell you, as I have shared before on this forum, when this face appeared on the TV screen back in February during the heated Democratic Primaries one Saturday afternoon as I was watching the news update on the big Obama and Hillary contest... before my very eyes the face of Obama morphed into a scowling demon. The Holy Spirit was showing me he has the spirit of Antichrist. I was sitting in a chair, and I stood directly up and immediately rushed to the TV screen, not blinking my eyes; and for 7 seconds his face remained as a demon and then morphed back into his normal visage. Basically, Obama will be bad news for America, very bad.

-7

My prediction still stands. We shall soon see!

Are you "beating around the Bush?" LOL.

Really cute. I'm just sharing with you what the Holy Spirit showed me. You are a Christian, aren't you?

hay seven thunders


larry d is a christian you will have to work out who he use to be he has been a member hear for a long time brother


God bless from damo

Todd,

My personal rights lost are very small in comparison with freedoms that have been lost in this country. One such freedom is for churches to preach biblical truths. With hate laws now on the books if Pastors offend one of the flock that Pastor could be arrested. Then lets move to Kelo vs New London where local government can seize property for purposes of private redevelopment. Then we can move on to the HMO plans in which medicine was taken out of the hands of the medical professionals and placed in the hands of someone behind a desk who is calling the shots. And talking about HMO"S, aren't our hands tied when we can't choose our own specialists to go to and instead we must stay in a networking group. BTW- I'm at the age where it is best to prevent an illness than get it...call that time of life middle aged. My doctor wants to order some medical tests in order that we might prevent some complications down the road...insurance company say's no way. Only thing we pay for is when you are diognosed with an illness. Doesn't any one know that it is cheaper to prevent than to cure? Easier to prevent than to provide hospice care?

Todd, my rights, my personal freedoms are not all that important. But what is important is that our framers wrote the constitution in order to safe gaurd our freedoms and ensure that we remain a democracy. When I see one part of our constitution trampled upon by our government leaders, I get miffed. Our American Constitution is an easy enough read, so what is going on?

And yes Todd, have as much fun as you would like but it goes without saying that in every conspiracy theory is a a little bit of truth. But one thing is for sure and that is that God has everything in His control.

Gods Blessings,

Al

PS- Perhaps tomorrow I shall begin a thread and study on this topic. I look forward in continuing to learn from each of you. Thanks.

Al

[Oops) Sorry.

Al

Kim,

Thank-you. Will go in search for this document tomorrow. There is so much bogus conspirarcies going around on the net. I think some conspiracy theories are used as scare tactics and those theories are largely lies. I am not asking anyone to blindly buy a theory but I am asking people to study and research and to keep searching for the truth. Our American democracy depends on it. BUt Kim some good news? Our Lord is coming again to take home his people. Alleluia what a great day that will be.

Gods Blessings,

Al

So, are you telling me, Damo7, that Larry D changed his former avatar name to a new identity and rejoined a month ago on August 26th, 2008 as his data indicates? Why did he do that; it only confuses everyone?

-7

So, are you telling me, Damo7, that Larry D changed his former avatar name to a new identity and rejoined a month ago on August 26th, 2008 as his data indicates? Why did he do that; it only confuses everyone?

-7

So, are you telling me, Damo7, that Larry D changed his former avatar name to a new identity and rejoined a month ago on August 26th, 2008 as his data indicates? Why did he do that; it only confuses everyone?

-7

OOOOPS! Didn't mean to post this three times; I accidentally clicked the mouse three time , and ----WHALA!

What prediction is that Annie? Do you believe the Lord shared something with you about (Bush and Cheney staying in office longer)?....thanks, Kim

Al,
I agree with you...there is alot of bogus stuff out there and I won't buy into believing something without evidence. But there is alot of evidence of shady dealings and what not if one is willing to research and find these things out. Our country has been at war with many countries under the radar, outside of public scrutiny and readily admits that the CIA has routinely participated in the influencing of govts, installing various leaders and taking them down. It all revolves around greed...and which leaders pose the most favorably towards US financial interests (in other words, who will be the puppet?).

What is most interesting is how big name corporations have their interests in foreign countries and their lobbying efforts to sway American politics AND policies into their financial favor. This goes on all the time. These large corporations have stakes in many foreign countries where *slavery* is allowed. Slavery has never died, it's just taken on a new name called minimum wage (and when I say minimum wage, it's not by US standards, but rather .20-.30 cents an hour minimum wage!). What is also abhorrent is the abuses upon these poor people being forced into sweat shops while they are robbed of their lands and those lands are then bought up by the large agro-industries...who then turn around and enslave more people to work the very land they should be owners of.

I could go on and on about these things...but will refer you to an interesting website. Although I do not agree with all of their doctrinal beliefs concerning christianity I can say this much...the author's there have done their fair share of historical research; especially in regards to the US govt (and somewhat, US church leaders). What they describe as far as history is concerned can be documented, primarily from our own govt resources or media resources.

http://www.antipasministries.com/index.htm

Also, Operation Northwoods (at the National Security Archive of George Washington University)

http://www.picosearch.com/cgi-bin/ts.pl

God bless you,
Kim

Al,
I am not trying to defend Bush or McCain for that matter. What I am trying to do is understand what people are talking about when you, like others, claim the following:



I apologize in advance if the following comes across as brash, Al. I don't mean it to. I did all of this research in minutes on the web. We have agreed many times before. But you really need to do your research.

It is amazing to me that people fear and hate Bush so much. What is their actual basis in fact? I have never seen him elevate himself to the messiah status that Obama now has. I have not seen him tell us that raising taxes to satisfy coveting and envy of what others have is good. I have never seen him say that abortion is a "choice", that unborn babies are "tissue masses" or "parasites" in a woman's body like the liberal democrats do. I have never heard him say that we should be careful speaking out against moral injustice, or moral depravity for the sake of tolerance. I have heard Obama say in a 2004 interview:



Obama believes that no one can honestly believe - with certainity - that JESUS is the only "way, truth and life" and leave other people who believe differently out. In his world, cynicism is the only acceptable position to hold, because no one can know anything - like salvation - for sure. We are too limited in our understanding according to Obama. Nevermind what the Bible say. So there you have it in a nutshell. He has no concept of faith in CHRIST at all. Obama would be a firm supporter of the PA hate speech law by definition. I see him as the person most likely to take away rights in the name of "being a responsible citizen" and "tolerance". Just not tolerance for believers in CHRIST.

You wrote that Bush has stripped away our freedoms. Lets look at the freedoms you said he stripped away:




I found this while researching:


PA Hate-Speech Law Could Limit Churches
Virtuosity online/Family News in Focus ^ | June 28, 04 | Terry Phillips

Posted on Thursday, July 01, 2004 6:39:45 PM by churchillbuff

A law in Pennsylvania may be used to silence pastors in the pulpit, but Christians have vowed to fight for the right to speak to the truth.

We've heard of laws in the Netherlands and Canada that penalize preachers for using the Bible to condemn homosexuality. Now it's happening in America.

The Commonwealth of Pennsylvania has added an amendment to its hate-crimes law that covers something called "harassment by communication."

Michael Geer, president of the Pennsylvania Family Institute, said the new provisions could open clergy to the possibility of prosecution for preaching on God's views of homosexuality.

"The threat is very real and something that needs to be addressed," Geer said. "The pulpit should be definitely a free-speech zone in the United States of America and in Pennsylvania."

Anthony Picarello, chief counsel for the Becket Fund for Religious Liberty, agreed that the law may be tailored to intimidate pastors, priests and rabbis, but he said his group is ready to defend any pastor who might be charged for speaking out.

"The wording is broad enough that it could be applied (to religious speakers)," Picarello said, "and that's something . . . that the people who crafted the language had in mind."

The offer of free legal help from the Becket Fund to pastors was backed up with 9,000 letters to all houses of worship in Pennsylvania. Meanwhile, some pastors are thinking about insurance to cover their sermons.

FOR MORE INFORMATION: The Becket Fund for Religious Liberty Web site contains more information about the Pennsylvania law — and its implications.


Update:

Victory: Pennsylvania “hate crimes” law struck down by Penn. Supreme Court
Published by Ben DuPré July 24th, 2008 in Law, Politics

(read the article here at http://morallaw.org/blog/?p=299 )

by Ben DuPré July 24th, 2008 in Law, Politics

In a significant victory for freedom of thought and the rule of law, the Pennsylvania Supreme Court ruled yesterday in favor of Michael Marcavage and other Christian evangelists with Repent America, affirming in Marcavage v. Rendell that the state legislature violated the Pennsylvania Constitution when it added “sexual orientation” and “gender identity” to Pennsylvania’s “ethnic intimidation” law (18 Pa. C.S. § 2710), the state’s version of so-called “hate crimes.”
The Foundation for Moral Law, along with attorney Aaron D. Martin, represented Christian evangelists Michael Marcavage, Mark Diener, Randall and Linda Beckman, Susan Startzell, Arlene Elshinnawy, and Nancy Major (below), who in 2004 were arrested and charged under the “ethnic intimidation” law for evangelizing at a Philadelphia homosexual parade.

Several of the "Philly 11" pictured here challenged the constitutionality of Pennsylvania's "ethnic intimidation" law

Several of the “Philadelphia 11″ sued and the Commonwealth Court of Pennsylvania agreed that the law was unconstitutional and struck it down. On appeal the Supreme Court of Pennsylvania, in a short per curiam order, agreed with the Commonwealth Court’s opinion and the Christian evangelists’ appellate brief filed by the Foundation.

Judge Roy Moore remarked on this historic case:

“We are very happy that the Pennsylvania Supreme Court has ruled in our favor to stop the Governor and a group of corrupt politicians from sneaking a ‘hate crimes’ bill through the Pennsylvania legislature. Preaching to homosexuals about the sin of sodomy should not be made a ‘thought crime’ in Pennsylvania or any other state.”

In the appellate brief filed March 17, 2008, the Foundation and attorney Martin argued to the Pennsylvania Supreme Court that the legislature’s altering of an “agricultural crop destruction” bill into an amendment to the “ethnic intimidation” law—making crimes motivated by “sexual orientation,” “gender identity” and other classes subject to greater punishment (Act No. 2002-143, HB 1493)—violated, among other provisions, Article III, Section 1 of the Pennsylvania Constitution:

“No law shall be passed except by bill, and no bill shall be so altered or amended, on its passage through either House, as to change its original purpose.”

The Commonwealth Court agreed that the “ethnic intimidation” amendment violated Section 1 and now so has the Pennsylvania Supreme Court.

Michael Marcavage, director of Repent America, also said:

“Having been arrested, jailed and charged with a ‘hate crime’ for preaching the Gospel, I am elated that the Pennsylvania Supreme Court upheld the lower court’s ruling in striking down Pennsylvania’s expanded ‘hate crimes’ law. The methods used by the Pennsylvania legislature in passing the ‘hate crimes’ bill were extremely devious and yet another chilling example as to how far politicians are willing to go to silence Christian speech that they would violate our own state Constitution to do it. In a nation that is becoming increasingly hostile toward Biblical Christianity, we remain vigilant as the Pennsylvania legislature will most likely attempt to pass another ‘hate crimes’ bill and are continuing to educate the American people on the significant dangers of such laws.”

Since this was a successful suit challenging the underhanded legislative procedure used to pass the “ethnic intimidation” amendment, Mr. Marcavage is right to call on Pennsylvanians to remain vigilant so that the Pennsylvania legislature does not turn right around and pass such a heinous bill again.

Mr. Marcavage, as you may recall, is still battling in the Massachusetts courts after he was found guilty of “disorderly conduct” for preaching with a megaphone in Salem, Mass., on Halloween night. The Foundation hopes to obtain the same success for Mr. Marcavage in Massachusetts as was gained in Pennsylvania since private beliefs and public preaching of the gospel—whether to homosexuals in Philadelphia or to Halloween revelers in “Witch City”—should never be made a crime.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I would like to point out that it was this case that caused your fears, Al. The news media blew it up to say that EVERYONE was under the law and that megaphone preaching on the street corners during gay rights parades and rallies was illegal because it was "hate speech". That was not true outside of Pennsylvania, but when one state does something the Media automatically thinks it will apply to all, especially if it has to do with liberal social policies. Look at gay marriage. The press said that if Massachusetes passed a gay marriage amendment it had to be observed by all of the states. However, that is not true either.

Again, here is how it was done:



The liberals snuck it in by changing an agricultural bill into an "anti ethinic intimidation" amendment. Again, not George Bush but liberals who love the world but hate GOD or anything to do with GOD, including HIS word which they conveniently ignore. You should be fearing and watching and blogging and posting about the lberal democrats that snuck that law into the PA books instead of claiming that Bush did it!

According to the Becket Fund, which defends the rights of Churches of any faith type or denomination (you may find their site at http://www.becketfund.org ), abuses of hate speech laws occur at the local or state level, not so much at the national or Federal level. Most of the federal cases they are party to are against the IRS, which prohibits non-profit church organizations from endorsing political candidates. The IRS will revoke a church's tax exempt status if it believes a church is engaged in supporting a particular political view. However, you might notice that politicians show up at churches all the time and talk about themselves - Obama, Hillary, and McCain - all have done it, and yet the IRS leaves those churches alone. It must depend on which church is in the "in crowd" at the time. Which ever church the world loves. Unless they declare that the meeting is a "civics" meeting only, like Rick Warren did recently.

There was also a law passed by Congress in 2000, during Bill Clinton's administration, called the RLUIPA, which stands for the Religious Land Use and Institutionalized Persons Act. RLUIPA is a federal statute that was passed in 2000 to provide stronger protection for religious freedom in the land-use and prison contexts of churches. It protects all types of religious faiths. Please see the web site http://www.rluipa.com/ for more information about this statute. It is very interesting to read. It defends ALL "CHURCHES" - wicca, muslims, hindus, Druids, Satanists, Christians, etc. Tares in the wheat...


The threat of hate speech prosecution is typcially done at the local or state level. Organizations like the Becket Fund fight for preachers being charged with violations of 'hate speech'. Canada, Sweden and The Netherlands have strict laws against speaking out in any way against any practice that someone could interpret as 'hate speech'. That is not true in the United States, except in certain states as noted. You cited Bush did this, when he certainly did not. He had nothing to do with any of this.



I wanted to find out more about this case. I remember how it was played in the press. Here is what I found:



First, this was decided by the Supreme Court, not George Bush. Let's look at the Justices who affirmed the decision:

Justice Stevens, who delivered the opinion of the Court, was appointed by Ronald Reagan.

Justice Souter (Bush Sr), Ginsburg (Clinton), and Breyer (Bush Sr.).

Who dissented?

Justices O’Connor (Clinton appointee), filed a dissenting opinion, in which Rehnquist (Reagan), Scalia (Reagan) and Thomas (Bush Sr.), joined.

Notice that none of Bush Jr.'s justices were involved in the decision. If you read the court case, and the affirming opinion, the Supreme Court believed that New London was well within it's rights guaranteed under the US Constitution. So how is that Bush Jr's or McCain's fault? In fact, it would be more of McCain's since he was in the Senate when some of those affirming Justices were approved by the Senate. But you can not blame either Bush or McCain for the actions of the Supreme Court, since the Supreme Court Justices all view the court as a separate entity under the constitution. They make up their own minds, in other words. Again, that is not Bush's fault. The media blamed Bush because it was a "greedy" developer who wanted the land. A person who the New London council agreed with. But because it was a developer - a greedy money hungry developer, much like Bush is portrayed in the press because he was a former oil man and "Big Oil" makes billions, then it is automatically Bush's fault. Yikes!



I have my own business. I pay 100% of my own health insurance cost, so I understand this subject better than most.

HMOs' started in 1973 under the Nixon administration, but managed care actually started in the late 1900's, believe it or not. Here is a link to a pdf of the history of HMOs and PPOs ( http://www.thci.org/downloads/BriefHist.pdf ). You will be surprised to learn how long ago they existed, how the AMA tried to suppress them for decades, and how they suddenly became popular in the 1970's as a way to handle the increasing cost of healthcare in the US, and how the Federal government got involved in 1973. The HMO issue has not been a Bush phenomenon over the last eight years, no. It started more than 35 years ago when Congress wanted to regulate the growing industry. Bush Sr, Clinton and Bush Jr. all have tried to reform the HMO industry in some way shape or form. But Congress is beholden to the managed care lobby, so not much gets accomplished. There is no line item veto for the President. It is all or nothing. So if Bush Sr, Clinton or Bush Jr signed anything benefiting the HMO's into law that takes away from patients, it is most likely because it was grouped with other legislation within the same bill. Please correct me if I am wrong.

I think it has become the accepted norm to blame whoever is president and to believe all of the emails and special interest web sites that pop up these days. I have been told Bush is the antichrist so many times it's not funny, and you are consistently saying that he will somehow hold a coup over the federal government and suspend all rights for all people and declare martial law. How could you or anyone jump to such conclusions? Where is the actual basis of fact that can honestly lead one to conclude that such an action will occur anytime in the near future?

Here is how I see it:

Bush was labeled a Christian (follower of JESUS), and the world hates him. Most people on this forum say he is not, but I beg to differ. He is supported by the Religious Right, who is also associated with CHRIST, and they are hated too. Bush came to office touting how he is against abortion and embryo stem cell research, and the world hates him for that for being so intolerant and cruel to women and the disabled (i.e. Christopher Reeves and Michael J. Fox). He said he was against homosexual marriages, and the world hates him for that. He is against many of the things that replace the responsibility of people and parents with the womb to tomb nanny of the Federal Government. Check out ancient Babel under Nimrod's rule. Google "Babel" and "Nimrod" and you will find out that Nimrod was the original "GOD is dead!" athiest. He encouraged the people under his rule to live anyway they wanted. He just wanted them to make him their king, and he would take care of the rest. We still have that very same effect going on today in our country!



gr82bsaved

I suggest we do this, I have been doing this for sometime. I have been praying that the canidates reveal their true identity, or reveal their true nature to the general public.

Lets do this and see what happens next!

I tried to find the vidio of Saddleback Debate but could not find anywhere. I did find this in case anyone wants to read
http://www.docstoc.com/docs/1047459/Saddle...end-Rick-Warren

abortion vs. pro-life

the abortion folks would love for my children (born or not-yet-born) to be PHYSICALLY killed..........they say the planet is too populated, polluted, im-perilled..........more people brings more damage to the environment


the pro-life folks would love to stop the PHYSICAL killing of children (and not-yet-born)............but many of the pro-lifers are (sort-of) OK with the preaching of evolution to our little children in K-12, and beyond, for the rest of their lives.......

my point is:

the physical killing of children is bad,
and
the SPIRITUAL killing of children (by destroying their confidence in jesus/Bible, by preaching evolution) is just as bad , OR WORSE



WHY do we agonize about abortion,,,,,,,but not the preaching of evolution?

in OT times, the heresy-preacher was stoned to death.
in NT times, God SPIRITUALLY kills the heresy-preachers.......(they lose their salvation)

clinton, bush, palin, mccain, obama.........none have seriously criticized the preaching of evolution lies to our children........they are OK with heresy-preaching in Kindergarten

so, i have no confidence in them

Mar 14:21 The Son of man indeed goeth, as it is written of him: but woe to that man by whom the Son of man is betrayed! good were it for that man if he had never been born.


Mat 18:6 But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea.

Hi Kim,

Considering everything involved, I see Bush remaining in office indefinitely if a major event occurs. Martial law would be imposed and the constitution suspended.
There are some things I definitely get a strong feeling about, and this is one of them.

BUSH POWER GRAB
http://www.christian-forum.net/index.php?showtopic=15674

OPERATION NORTHWOODS
http://www.christian-forum.net/index.php?showtopic=22031

Hi Dennis,
This may appear to be a campaign post for Sarah Palin. Here is an article about her stand on creationism, presented from the view point of an anti-creationism, pro-evolutionist who is actually AFRAID of her named Michael Lang:

http://www.thelangreport.com/religion-or-l...ught-in-school/

Sarah Palin Wants Creationism Taught in School

By Michael Lang on Aug 31, 2008 in RELIGION OR LACK OF

Republican vice-presidential candidate sarah palin wants creationism taught in science classes.

In a 2006 gubernatorial debate, the soon-to-be governor of Alaska said of evolution and creation education, "Teach both. You know, don’t be afraid of education. Healthy debate is so important, and it’s so valuable in our schools. I am a proponent of teaching both."

And using that logic, maybe we should teach the cooking of magic potions in home economics class too. In fact, we should teach any kind of whacked out methodology as an alternative to traditional subjects and with the rationale being ‘fair and balanced” curriculae.

Asked by the Anchorage Daily News whether she believed in evolution, Palin declined to answer, but said that "I don’t think there should be a prohibition against debate if it comes up in class."

"I’m not going to pretend I know how all this came to be," she said.

The battle between evolution and creationism — specifically, Christian creationism – in U.S. classrooms dates back to the 1925 Scopes trial, when a Tennessee court banned the teaching of evolution. Since then, state and federal courts have repeatedly rejected so-called creation science in public schools, calling it religion rather than science.

The latest courtroom defeat came in the 2005 Kitzmiller v. Dover case, when the superficially religion-neutral theory of intelligent design was classified as religious creationism. The Supreme Court ruled in 1987 that teaching creationism violated