I have a saying I believe God gave me many years ago and it is an original that I don't think anyone will have heard or read of before. I think I first coined it back in 1995.

"If the body is a temple, then let my soul be it's altar and my spirit a prayer onto God." -Robert L.

If I ever write a book I'll use it as my own quote

Anyway, I wanted to start this as a separate thread from the previous discussion from Researcher's response.

Yes, not only do I think the soul is between the flesh (body) and the spirit but I believe the soul is split between the subconscious and the conscious. The flesh speaking mostly to my conscious and perhaps some to my subconscious, and my spirit speaking mostly through my subconscious and sometimes to my conscious.

I think the "awaken" believer in Christ is someone who some how had a shift in that the spirit actively speaks to the conscious more than the subconscious and the flesh pushed back (as much as possible) to the subconscious. It makes sense to me.

Ecclesiastes 12:7
Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

This tells me the spirit that resides in each person is not corruptible because it returns to God, and God is not corrupt.

I like that follow through and what a great saying....I like it and it is of God.The spirit returns to God as a pure thing that came out from him when you were created. I will hold that thought....

Now the tough part. What is the definition of the soul, spirit, and flesh.

Flesh is easy, spirit is too.

But the soul.. mind, will, emotions?

Gen 35:18 And it came to pass, as her soul was departing (for she died), that she called his name Ben-oni: but his father called him Benjamin.

That's a strange thing. I would think that it should say her spirit was departing, but it says soul.

The definitions of soul and spirit in Strong's are very close to each other.

Soul is "breath"

Spirit is "wind"

1Ki 17:21 And he stretched himself upon the child three times, and cried unto Jehovah, and said, O Jehovah my God, I pray thee, let this child's soul come into him again.

I would think that would be spirit also, instead of soul. If a person dies, their spirit leaves their body. You have to get it back into the body for the body to come back to life. Unless this meant, "let his breath come back into him," but, you still need the spirit to come back at the same time.

1Ki 17:22 And Jehovah hearkened unto the voice of Elijah; and the soul of the child came into him again, and he revived.

Odd. Spirit and soul seem interchangeable.



2Ki 4:27 And when she came to the man of God to the hill, she caught hold of his feet. And Gehazi came near to thrust her away; but the man of God said, Let her alone: for her soul is vexed within her; and Jehovah hath hid it from me, and hath not told me

Jdg 16:16 And it came to pass, when she pressed him daily with her words, and urged him, that his soul was vexed unto death.

1Sa 1:10 And she was in bitterness of soul, and prayed unto Jehovah, and wept sore.

Seems like we could interchange spirit in any of those.

Eph 4:30 And grieve not the Holy Spirit of God, in whom ye were sealed unto the day of redemption.

The soul is grieved, just like the Spirit.

I'll let ya'll define it, it's hard to separate to me. Lol.

I would go back to the beginning and see what was written in the Early days.

Lev 7:18 And if any of the flesh of the sacrifice of his peace offerings be eaten at all on the third day, it shall not be accepted, neither shall it be imputed unto him that offereth it: it shall be an abomination, and the soul that eateth of it shall bear his iniquity.

the soul can eat and it has to bear HIS sins

Lev 7:20 But the soul that eateth of the flesh of the sacrifice of peace offerings, that pertain unto the LORD, having his uncleanness upon him, even that soul shall be cut off from his people.

the soul can be unclean upon Himself and be cut off from HIS people, it says this souls belongs to a people

Lev 7:21 Moreover the soul that shall touch any unclean thing, as the uncleanness of man, or any unclean beast, or any abominable unclean thing, and eat of the flesh of the sacrifice of peace offerings, which pertain unto the LORD, even that soul shall be cut off from his people.

the souls can touch any unclean thing. it continue to say that this soul will be cut off from his people

Lev 20:6 And the soul that turneth after such as have familiar spirits, and after wizards, to go a whoring after them, I will even set my face against that soul, and will cut him off from among his people.

a soul can turn to a unfamiliar spirit

Lev 22:6 The soul which hath touched any such shall be unclean until even, and shall not eat of the holy things, unless he wash his flesh with water.

the soul has to wash his flesh in water and be unclean until the evening if it touches anything unclean.

the souls requires a atonement if it sins ignorantly

Num 15:28 And the priest shall make an atonement for the soul that sinneth ignorantly, when he sinneth by ignorance before the LORD, to make an atonement for him; and it shall be forgiven him.

the souls can sin and it can die.

Ezek 18:4 Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die.

Ezek 18:20 The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him

Actually, the spirit and soul are distinct and individual attributes; they are not synonymous attributes. The spirit is an actual personhood, your true self. The notion to reconcile the spirit and soul to be one is an error of modern philosophy. The human being is designed by God to consist of the “Tripartite Attributes of Human Wholeness”: Pneuma (Spirit), Psyche (Soul/Mind) and Soma (Body), being the spiritual, psychological/neurological, and the physical.

It is the spirit that is Eternal and Infinite. Upon death it returns to God for its Eternal destination determined by God. The soul/mind and body are the corruptible attributes. The body dies. I’m not quite clear on the ultimate fate of the soul/mind, whether it dies and the memories go with the spirit, or if the soul/mind joins the spirit. Maybe someone else has research on this aspect. When humans are born their spirit is considered “dead”, for it is severed from the two lesser attributes due to the Fall of Man preventing connection to God; and it is only rejoined after being Born Again (spiritual rebirth) allowing them to collaborate with the Holy Spirit, God and Christ.

If one does not become reborn in Christ, then the Demonic Nature takes full advantage of the situation and demons create an artificial link between the spirit and the soul/mind and acts as a liaison. These people engage in the black arts, sorcery and psychic phenomenon where the linked demon provides data of past lives of other people long ago dead to make it appear as if it is the past life of the human host, as well as collaborates with the person’s spirit and soul/mind to generate commands to the demon to lift objects (telekinesis and levitation) and other psychic phenomenon, i.e. fortunetelling, etc.

I like your quote, HB; it’s very accurate.

-7

The Distinction Between the Soul and the Spirit

by Richard Young

The Scriptures make a distinction made between the soul and the
spirit. The most explicit example is in Hebrews 4:12: "For the word of
God is living and active and sharper than any two-edged sword, and
piercing as far as the division of soul and spirit, of both joints and
marrow, and able to judge the thoughts and intentions of the heart."
Another good example is found in I Thessalonians 5:23: "may your
spirit and soul and body be preserved complete, without blame at the
coming of our Lord Jesus Christ." However, the creation of Adam and
his subsequent fall also provides us with an understanding of how the
soul and spirit are distinct. When God created Adam it says that He
breathed into him and that he became, literally, "a living soul" (Gen
2:7). Later God told Adam that in the day that he eats of the tree of
knowledge of good and evil that he would certainly die (Gen
2:17). After Adam ate of this tree he did not die for it says that
"all the days that Adam lived were nine hundred and thirty years, and
he died" (Gen 5:5). So unless God misspoke or lied to Adam (as
suggested by some very liberal theologians) then the death that Adam
experienced that day in the Garden was not physical or
psychological. His soul and body did not immediately die that day. But
it seems that what died that day was his spirit.

Some believe that this reference to the "day" of Adam's death
refers to a 1,000 year period because, according to Psalm 90:4, "For a
thousand years in Your sight are like yesterday when it passes by, or
as a watch in the night". I understand Ps 90:4 as indicating that all
of time is spread out before God - since He is eternal and not subject
to time. It does not seem intended to establish some sort of equation,
like, (1 God day) = (1,000 man years).
This is almost like creating an equation for converting "dog years" to
"man years": (7 dog years) = (1 man year).
This sort of equation does not seem to make sense if we understand God
as eternal and independent of time. In light of this, then, we are
left with the death of Adam after his eating of the forbidden fruit as
being a spiritual death and not a physical death.

So what is the distinction between the soul and the spirit? Oehler
described the soul in this way: "Man is not spirit, but has it: he is
soul. .... In the soul, which sprang from the spirit, and exists
continually through it, lies the individuality-in the case of man, his
personality, his self, his ego" Old Testament Theology (vol. I,
p.217). Further, the Scriptures refer to the soul being redeemed and
saved (see, for example, Psalms 16:10; 49:8,15) but not so much the
spirit. So the thing which a person identifies as "myself" is saved.

The spirit then is analogous to the body. Metaphorically, functions
of the body are used to describe functions of the spirit. Seeing and
hearing are used to describe how we perceive the things of God (e.g.,
Matt 13:13-16). Eating and drinking are used to describe our spiritual
sustenance (see I Cor. 10:3,4). Jesus said that one must be born of
the spirit to see the kingdom of God (John 3:3). He likened it to a
physical birth. As far as God is concerned our spirit was functionally
"dead;" it was completely non-functional - blind, deaf, dumb, and
paralyzed. Without a living spirit our soul lacks the medium to
interact with God. But spiritual birth brings the spirit to life. On
one hand, the body is the medium by which our soul interacts with the
physical world. In the same way, I see our spirit as the medium by
which our soul interacts with God, for Jesus said, "God is spirit, and
those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth" (John
4:24). And just as the body and soul affect one another so does the
spirit and soul affect one another.

One cannot be dogmatic about this and perhaps it is just a matter
of semantics. All that really matters is that "I", no matter how one
would like to define or describe it, am saved and united with God.

SOURCE: http://paracleteforum.org/archive/articles...t/dialogue.html

What spirit ?

I ask this , because you must first determind which spirit we are talking about. The "spirit of man" is given to man as a tool, by God, and returns to God after we die. This tool, gives God the ability to put certain understandings on mans mind. This also gives man the ability to respond to these understandings. Our ability to "reason" comes from the "spirit of man" that was given to us. Our reasoning is not a repetitive learning. Even an animal can learn from repetitiveness. Notice as to why everyone has so many opinions about any given subject ? You take your reasonings and conclude. Your reasonings might be misconstructed, but your ability comes from the spirit of man, which gives you that ability. A prophet of God has the Spirit of God upon him, to guide and teach or tell him certain understandings that God wants him to bring forth. All of mankind has the spirit of man. Because of this we reason out our day. We conclude.

When you die, this tool goes back to God , who gave it. The tool is no longer needed.

Soul is breath life and it is memory.

God can and does take the Spirit of God off of those prophets who do not do His will. Again, this is a tool, used by God to communicate. If the tool is not being used correctly, God removes it. When we die, God takes back the spirit of man. The tool is no longer needed.

IN Christ - Christ IN -- MM

go back to the beginning to find the truth

Gen 2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

when the LORD put breath into man man became a living soul

before the breath went into man he was a dead soul

it says man became a living soul. the soul and body are the same.

that why we can read in Leviticus the soul doing all the things a body can do.

Lev 7:18 And if any of the flesh of the sacrifice of his peace offerings be eaten at all on the third day, it shall not be accepted, neither shall it be imputed unto him that offereth it: it shall be an abomination, and the soul that eateth of it shall bear his iniquity.

the soul can eat and it has to bear HIS sins

Lev 7:20 But the soul that eateth of the flesh of the sacrifice of peace offerings, that pertain unto the LORD, having his uncleanness upon him, even that soul shall be cut off from his people.

the soul can be unclean upon Himself and be cut off from HIS people, it says this souls belongs to a people

Lev 7:21 Moreover the soul that shall touch any unclean thing, as the uncleanness of man, or any unclean beast, or any abominable unclean thing, and eat of the flesh of the sacrifice of peace offerings, which pertain unto the LORD, even that soul shall be cut off from his people.

the souls can touch any unclean thing. it continue to say that this soul will be cut off from his people

Lev 20:6 And the soul that turneth after such as have familiar spirits, and after wizards, to go a whoring after them, I will even set my face against that soul, and will cut him off from among his people.

a soul can turn to a unfamiliar spirit

Lev 22:6 The soul which hath touched any such shall be unclean until even, and shall not eat of the holy things, unless he wash his flesh with water.

the soul has to wash his flesh in water and be unclean until the evening if it touches anything unclean.

the souls requires a atonement if it sins ignorantly

Num 15:28 And the priest shall make an atonement for the soul that sinneth ignorantly, when he sinneth by ignorance before the LORD, to make an atonement for him; and it shall be forgiven him.

the souls can sin and it can die.

Ezek 18:4 Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die.

Ezek 18:20 The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him

I do not judge anyone believing otherwise or having weak faith nor do I shake the weaken, but the body and the soul are different things.

then prove it!

1Thes 5:21 Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.

who is judging? why did you bring this up?
what do weak faith have to to do with the topic?
are you wiggling out of the discussion?

Hi Ozell, it's not about proving anything for I cannot even prove God exist, let alone anyone else who says they love the Lord.

It's about faith, for weakness in faith is holding to needless scruples.



If I am uneasy from my conscious then I judge another when they do something against my conscious and I am offended.

It's not necessary because it is written

Romans 8:28
And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.

Peace!

Hi Hb

one day that faith or belief will have to change to You Know

you will have to say I know there is God and this proceed to prove it.

Martha said to the Lord, to the Lord now

Jn 11:24 Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day.


the woman told the Lord, this is Jesus she speaks to

Jn 4:25 The woman saith unto him, I know that Messias cometh, which is called Christ: when he is come, he will tell us all things.

we are told to grow in grace and knowledge


1Pt 2:2 As newborn babes, desire the sincere milk of the word, that ye may grow thereby:

2Pt 3:18 But grow in grace, and in the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and for ever. Amen.

we are to grow from a babe or child to a man or woman even in the word of God

Heb 5: 12 For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat.
13: For every one that useth milk is unskilful in the word of righteousness: for he is a babe.
14: But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.

1Cor 13:11 When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.

you can prove God exist walk outside and look up.

go to the mirror and look in it.

Gen 2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

take away the breath of man and what happens? death

let that man or animal that is dead sit in the earth long enough what happens? dust

oh you can prove it.

Well, Ozell, if I could prove God's existence it'd be the most famous man in the world, perhaps as famous as Moses.

There would be no reason for any atheist to deny the existence of God if I had proof to show them. None of their counter examples would hold up because the proof would be on par with scientific evidence or mathematical deduction.

But, the fact is there is no such elegant proof, which onlyleaves faith.

And Christ did say faith is all that is needed.

But, I'm happy for you, Ozell, if you have proof. I admit I have no proof but only faith that God is real, and Christ is risen.

Peace.

We know that we are His, by the Spirit that dwells within us.

Apart from Me, you can do nothing (of the kingdom of Heaven).

We can do all things (of the kingdom of Heaven), through (the Spirit of) Christ who strengthens us.

Off topic: HB - I saw a year old post of yours about the 1000 years; I wanted to say that I agree with this assessment; and when I get time I plan to do a study; in fact, it inspired me, because it was a missing piece that I knew I had to search out, but hadn't, and I saw your post, and it is exactly as I surmise; if it proves out, and I know it will, the entire escatology (sp) of what we have been taught will be turned on its head - I'll be forced to take a stance, and I'll be outed, and I'm not even in - lol. You are the only one that I have seen as of yet who holds to these thoughts. It is correct.

Proof however, is in the pudding, as they say. Ducks in a row. And there is more than one way, to skin a cat. I hope you remember what you posted in 07, cause HB I agree with you. Has anyone else you have talked to, agreed with you? Anyone? Short answer, please (Lord I hope you know what I'm referring to); Jesus is Lord.

Yes, what HB posted in the millenium thread was from the HS. At least, one of the last comments. Therefore, I must agree.

This is the post: http://www.christian-forum.net/index.php?s...st&p=176420

Thanks RS, I'll have to look it up, cause I saw it the other day, and couldn't remember where.

No problem. I put the link to it in the post above this. Changed how I looked at it too. Lol.

That's it thanks.

NP, Yw.

Turn it on its head, my friend! May the Lord quicken your spirit with wonderful insight so that you may share the truth in love.

Thank you. May the Lord bless you and your family as you have blessed me. Love believes all things ... In Christ.