Consider the following.. If Seventy weeks ARE determined upon The Lords People, but the DAy of the Lord begins with the Judgement of UNbelievers, then How can any of the 70th week be part of the DAy of the Lord??? It can't!! As believers, we know we are NOT destined for the wrath of God This passage clearly gives us a 3 1/2 year TIME SPLIT BETWEEN the stopping of the sacrifices, and the AOD. If this is true then wouldn't that put the aod at the END of the 70th week??? And if this IS true, Knowing the AOD begins the DAY of the Lord, CAN ONLY MEAN THE TRUE DaY OF THE LORD BEGINS IMMEDIATELY FOLLOWING THE 70TH WEEK![indent][/indent]TODAYS COMMONLY HELD "THEOLOGY" HAS MISSED ITS TIMING BY 3 1/2 YEARS. THE RESULTS WILL BE CATASTOPHIC! THis is the reason why there is so much debate about when the Harvest occurs (rapture), and who will repopulate the earth. If one does understand this time split, it actually reconciles all three rapture Views. It will occur at the end of the 70th week, at the time of the Abomination of desolation, but before the "great tribulation period." The Lord cannot break His promise to HIs people. If HIs Judgement began to fall prior to the completion of the 70th week, that is what He would be doing!!

Your time frame for the 70th week is in error. The covenant of the 70 weeks of years has been decreed for Daniel's people alone, national Israel ..... not the Church. Daniel's vision is explicit about this and the balance of the time lapse left to finish is clearly a 7 year period of time. It is the Lord Himself who will confirm the covenant of the 70 weeks of years by executing the 70th for the purpose of completing the 6 objectives for national Israel during the period. The vision has nothing to do with the Lord's "harpazo" action for today's Church and the abomination of desolation will be set up on the temple mount in the middle of the 70th week when Israel is invaded and conquered by the little horn, the prince that shall come .... Satan's human king of the north. There is no other possibility for the immortalization of the Church to take place other than just before the 70th week decreed begins.

And this is where the confusion begins. Nowhere is God's word, does it state that HIs people, national Israel, are not under the new covenant in the 70th week. This is one of the assumed explpanations many pre-tribbers use to try to establish the age of Grace has ended. There are way too many scriptures that establish many will give their lives for the testimony of Jesus Christ in the seventieth week.

The point I am trying to establish, Is, if the Lord is going to Hold to HIs promise to His people, and give them the Full 70th week to repent and come to him through Christ, then how is it possable that His Judgement will fall in the last half of the 70th week? It can't!! If it did, them he broke His promise to his people and only Gave them 69 1/2 weeks!! See the descrepancy??

I do believe that there will be a war that will climax in the "midst" of the 70th week. It is the Ezekiel 38 war. The sacrifices will be stopped at this time. This is also the Sixth seal of Revelation. This war, is not the beginning of a 42 month period of war, but a climax of the Wars and rumors of Wars Jesus warned about. This is the "springboard" Antichrist will use to be accepted as God. The world will misjudge and accept the Ezekiel 38 battle as Armageddon. They will decieve their own hearts into accepting the antichrist as the returned Messiah!! Satan is an opportunist!!

As for the time split between the stopping of the sacrifices, and the AOD, All I ask is for you to supply ANY scripture that establishes these two events occur simultaineously. (without assuming truth). I have yet to find one... quite to the contrary I have found many that actually seperate the two events!

The Lord's coming judgment period will cover the entire 7 year tribulation plus another 30 days. Daniel's vision is exculsively focused upon his people national Israel and the nation's experience during the 70th week. The nation will hold out until the middle of the period when the little horn will sucessfully invade and conquer the nation. There will be a believing remnant produced out of "Jacob's" trouble. This remnant will include the 144,000 Israelites, the first converts of the period. 2/3rds of the nation will be killed and the rest will either be captured or will flee the nation. There will also be Gentiles of the nations who will turn to the Lord during the tribulation period and most will be martyred for their faith [these are not the great multitude of today's Body of Christ]. These Gentile converts of the tribulation period will be few in number and billions of humans [most of humanity] will not repent, and they will be killed in the tribulation and lost forever.

[/indent]This is where we must discern and redefine certian "labels" of time periods of the end time. The time of "jacob's trouble" is exactly that. It is a time of trouble that occurs on God's people. This is the 70th week. We have erroneously Labeled this time "the tribulation period", and this is where the confusion sets in. Now I am not stating that this will NOT be a time of trouble (or tribulation), but what I AM stating, this is NOT the time after the abomination of desolation, for this is when the wrath of God is poured out on those for what they done TO his PEOPLE IN THE 70TH WEEK.

THE TRUE 70TH WEEK, Consists of 3 1/2 years of Birthpains, wars and rumors of Wars. This is the first thing Jesus stated will occur. But He also stated "the end is not Yet".... Why did he say this?? The disciples asked the Lord, what shall be the end of the age? Why then does He tell them what ISN"T the end of the age. The answer THE lORD GIVES ONLY MAKES SENSE, after one relises, that this was a very specific warning. Jesus was staing that there will be wars and rumors of wars, that will appear to be the end, but the end is not yet!!

The Climax of the Ezekiel 38 battle in the midst of the week, will be accepted as Armageddon. this however is only the first half of the true 70th week. It will be followed by the 42 month reign of the false Messiah. The world will accept the False Messiah as God, because they will sincerely believe they have already experienced full prophetic fulfillment.

Jesus stated that he will come in "an hour that you think not". Absolutely no one would be Looking for the return of the Messiah, if they thought He has already Returned.

At the end of the 42 month reign of the false Messiah, the restrainer is removed, and His real identity is revealed to the World. it is then He performs the abomination of desolation. It is now the end of the 70th week. The DAy of the Lord now begins.[indent]

You mentioned the 30 day period AFTER the 70th week. It is in THIS time God's wrath is poured out. Mankind will not Last very Long without any fresh water!!

When God said 70 weeks he meant 70 weeks. Not 69 weeks with 2000 year gap in between the 69th and 70th weeks.
When the Bible said God made the world in 6 days and rested on the 7th, it meant one week, no gaps.
When Noah was in the flood for 40 days, no gaps.
When Israel went into slavery in Egypt for 430 years, they were there for 430 years. No gaps.
When God said Judah would be captive to Babylon 70 years it was 70 years no gaps,
There is no example in the Bible of God stating a specific period of time would elapse and that time would have a gap in it.
The decree in Daniel 9 to God's people was a Messianic prophecy. It was not a covenant.
It was a specific time period within which Messiah would come, be sacrificed and Israel had the opportunity to accept or reject him.
Unfortunately she rejected him.
Now God is fulfilling all of his promises through Jesus and the believing remnant of Israel (which is currently being built) along with those Gentile believers who all together form his church, the new Israel of God (Gal 6:16)
The OT and Israel prophecies are all about Jesus.
3am

Agreed. One uses the explaination that the Lord is ONLY dealing with the Jews in the end time, is a form of escapism, in my opinion. I do however believe that the Nation of Israel is pivital in end time events. We are the temple of the Holy Ghost that antichrist wants to sit in. He wants our praise and worship of Him AS GOD! Many don't understand that the reason Why the day of the Lord occurs, is because the Jews Have rebuilt their temple, and they Will Restart the sacrifices once again. This is a total slap in the face to God, and A total rejection of What Jesus did on the Cross.

The Lord will do this, the same way He did it in A.d. 70 He brought an invading Army into Jerusalem. (Rome) The next time, it will be Russia, and the Islamic world. Why else would the Lord put "hooks in the jaws' of an invading army, and bring them down on His own Land? What have they done to bring this type of Correction. I do believe that there is a time frame for the end time, but it is still in the age of Grace! [indent]" He shall confirm the covenant with many for one week. In the midst of the week, he shall cause the sacrifice and oblation to cease. The end time will "pick up' where it left off. This is the Messiah doing this, both at the cross, and Just prior to His return.

Hello Joshleet,

You stated: QUOTE Daniel 12:11 And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred ninety days.
This passage clearly gives us a 3 1/2 year TIME SPLIT BETWEEN the stopping of the sacrifices, and the AOD. If this is true then wouldn't that put the aod at the END of the 70th week???

My response: To keep things in context, you need to back up and look at what prompted the angel to make the comment you are questioning.

Daniel 12: 6.…."How long will it be before these astonishing things are fulfilled?"

What astonishing things? The things that were described in the previous three chapters.

But the answer to the angels question is one prophetic week or seven years. Of which the angel proceeds to answer over the next four verses.

Dan 12: 7 The man clothed in linen, who was above the waters of the river, lifted his right hand and his left hand toward heaven, and I heard him swear by him who lives forever, saying, "It will be for a time, times and half a time. [b] When the power of the holy people has been finally broken, all these things will be completed."
8 I heard, but I did not understand. So I asked, "My lord, what will the outcome of all this be?"
9 He replied, "Go your way, Daniel, because the words are closed up and sealed until the time of the end. 10 Many will be purified, made spotless and refined, but the wicked will continue to be wicked. None of the wicked will understand, but those who are wise will understand.
11 "From the time that the daily sacrifice is abolished and the abomination that causes desolation is set up, there will be 1,290 days.

The second half of the Tribulation period is the 1260 days/time, times and half time. During that time “the power of the holy people has been finally broken, all these things will be completed." This is the beginning of the GT which starts with the sacrifices being taken away and in my opinion, the AOD being set up.

Which brings us to:11 "From the time that the daily sacrifice is abolished and the abomination that causes desolation is set up, there will be 1,290 days.

Now remember, the time frame is seven years and the angel has already described the second half. So verse 11 has to be describing the first half of the trib period.

So, let’s add this up.
1290 days first half of the trib.
+1260 days for the second half of the trib.
+3 ½ days rounded off to 4 days for the time the two witnesses lie in the Jerusalme.
+1 day for The Day of the LORD.
=For a grand total of 2555 days.

Multiply 7 years for the trib period, times 365 days in a years = 2555 days.

So Daniel 12:11 is not describing the time between the sacrifices being taken away and the setting up of the AOD, but rather it describing the first half of the trib period which ends with the sacrifices being taken away and the AOD being set up.

In Yehoshua,
Guy Smith

GS,

"So Daniel 12:11 is not describing the time between the sacrifices being taken away and the setting up of the AOD, but rather it describing the first half of the trib period which ends with the sacrifices being taken away and the AOD being set up."

>You are correct here. 7 years are obviously decreed for the period as stated in Daniel 9:27. "All of these things" are about the first half of the week and this statement is in reference to the conquerings of the little horn ["he"], king of the north .... including Israel .... Daniel's people, at the time of the end [Daniel 12:7 is referencing back to verses 11:36-45]. Not many see this impportant link. It will be at the middle of the one 7' when the little horn has shattered the power of the nation of Israel and the abomination of desolation is set up on the mount.

This invasion and occupation of the nation will include his disruption of the Jewish worship at the temple mount [wailing wall]. The balance of the one 7' time frame will run from the middle of the period to the end of it and will include the little horn's rule over Israel for the 42 month [second 1,260 day] period. The Lord will then destroy the little horn's kingdom in the next 30 days. This will complete the 1,290 day period of the second half of the time frame.

The next 45 days, after the tribulations of those days, will include the Lord's gathering of the mortal survivors of the tribulation period to Jerusalem. These will include the "elect" of national Israel first and then the balance from the nations of the Gentiles. He will separate these based upon their belief in Him and their behavior towards national Israelites during the tribulation period. After the 1,335 days, the Lord will establish His millennial kingdom of mortals which will last for 1,000 years. The Body of Christ will already be immortal and will rule with Him during this period.

Once again, we have a failure to take into account Jesus and the NT writers interpretation of the OT prophecies.
A Christian cannot safely interpret the OT in the same way the rabbis did, ignoring Jesus sacrifice which put an end to all sacrifices and offerings, just as Daniel prophesied.

"Seventy 'sevens' are decreed for your people and your holy city to finish transgression, to put an end to sin, to atone for wickedness, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal up vision and prophecy and to anoint the most holy.
Many, in fact most interpreters place the 70th week into the future. Pre-tribbers place it following the rapture of the church and some Post-tribbers place it just before the return of Christ during a time of tribulation or wrath. It is true that all 6 objectives were decreed for His people in the time frame of the 70 weeks. But how are his people going to accomplish them? When one carefully looks at the list, it becomes obvious that he only way that could be possible is for them to accept their Messiah the prince who would come after first 69 weeks. If this is true, then Jesus accomplished all of the six points for them. All Israel has to do is accept the finished work of Christ. Is this a Messianic Prophecy pointing to the cross?

The Six items mentioned in the list are:
1. To finish the transgression
2. To make an end of sins

There are two different words for sin used here. The first, "finish transgression" is sin as rebellion against God. The second phrase "put an end to sin" means sin as missing the mark or the standard. It means breaking God's law. Israel was to put away sin and develop a righteous society, in order to be prepared for the Messiah to come.

The problem is that Israel never was able to put away her sins. That is the reason God provided the sacrifices offered at the sanctuary. Every sacrifice pointed forward to Jesus. In the temple, they were forgiven for their sins by Grace thru faith in the Lamb who would come. So Jesus Himself "finished transgression" and "put an end to sin" with a better sacrifice than the blood of Goats and calves.
"But now he has appeared once for all at the end of the ages to do away with sin by the sacrifice of himself" (Heb 9:26).
How was Jesus going to do away with sin? At he cross!! By sacrificing Himself.
The only way that Israel could ever Do away with sin, is by accepting her Messiah who did in fact put an end to sin by his own sacrifice! It is all about Jesus, not Israel. Israel can only participate in what Jesus has already DONE!
Hebrews is unmistakable; Jesus began the work of putting away sin at the cross. He is not done yet. There is still a completion of the act to totally do away with sin which will not be done until the lake of fire. That is the NT principle of already-not yet or inagurated - consumated. He inagurated the process athe that cross, so much so that the writer of Hebrews could say "He was sacrificed to do away with sin."

3. To atone for wickedness. Jesus certainly did this too. "God presented him as a sacrifice of atonement" (Rom 3:25), Are we to believe that Israel Makes her own atonement for her wickedness? Only Jesus can do this, and Israel can only make atonement In Christ. Some would try to argue that Israel makes atonement when they offer the sacrifices. That is obviously true, but that is not what Daniel is referring to here. They made atonement every day and on the Day of Atonement, every year from the begining. But those atonements were not sufficient. Daniel is talking about "The" Atonement Jesus made by offering himself on the cross.

4. To bring in everlasting righteousness.
Certainly no sinful human being or nation would ever be able to bring in everlasting righteousness. Only one could do this, and that was Christ. This is the essence of the Gospel.
"But now a righteousness from God, apart from law, has been made known, to which the Law and the Prophets testify. 22 This righteousness from God comes through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. (Rom 3:21, 22).
"Christ has become for us (and Israel) our righteousness" (1 Cor 1:31).
The Nation of Israel can never do this apart from Christ. Any attempt to interpret this fulfillment apart from the perfect work of Christ on the cross is an abomination that leaves the Gospel desolate.

5. To seal up vision and prophecy.
The New Testament has some powerful stuff that is far too involved to get into here.
But again, Only Jesus can seal up the vision (Dan 8) and prophecy.

6. To anoint the most holy. Again this cannot be referring to annointing any most holy place in any temple on earth. That was done over and over again in OT times. It wold be pointless for Daniel to predict an anointing of the temple on earth. Again, the NT clarifies this prophecy.
Heb 9:11 When Christ came as high priest of the good things that are already here, he went through the greater and more perfect tabernacle that is not man-made, that is to say, not a part of this creation. 12 He did not enter by means of the blood of goats and calves; but he entered the Most Holy Place once for all by his own blood, having obtained eternal redemption.

It is often overlooked that Dan 9 is Gabriel's explanation of the portion for the Vision in Daniel 8 that Daniel himself did not understand. Gabriel had already explained the ram and the goat of the vision, but the part he did not explain was the little horn's attack on the sanctuary and the cleansing of the sanctuary at the end of the 2300 days. Daniel did not understand that as evident in his prayer at the beginning of chapter 9.
It is obvious from Hebrews 9 that Jesus did in fact anoint the Most Holy place with his own blood when he ascended to the right hand of the Father, after the resurrection, well within the 70 weeks, but this is possible only if the 70 weeks are continuous. Projecting the 70th week into the future is to deny the High Priestly ministry of Christ as clearly outlined in the book of Hebrews as a fulfillment of Daniel 9. Furthermore, there is no hint of a great tribulation in any of the six items to be accomplished during the 70 weeks.

Where is the Cross?
There is one more major problem for a future 70th week. The Cross.
Daniel pinpoints the coming of the Messiah at the end of the first 69 weeks.
Notice he said, that there would be 69 weeks until the Messiah comes. It does not say there would be 69 weeks until he is cut off. It says there will be 69 weeks until he comes. Then Messiah would be cut off after the 69th week (v26). This is crucial; it places the cross (cut off) into the 70th week. "After the 69th week" would be into the 70th week. This is in agreement with verse 24 stating that he would make atonement for sins within the 70 week period.

Summarizing:
1. The cross had to fall within the 70 week period.
2. However, Messiah would not appear until after the first 69 weeks.
3. He would be cut off (the cross) after the first 69 weeks.
4. If He is cut off after the 69 weeks and within the 70th week, the 70th week cannot be future.

69 weeks ----> Messiah Comes----> during the 70th week Messiah is cut off the cross..

That is an impossible dilemma for a future 70th week.
JESUS INAGURATED ALL OF THIS ALREADY!!!
AND JESUS WILL CONSUMATE IT OR BRING IT TO COMPLETE REALITY AT THE END.
This is a prophecy about Him.
Israel was given 70 weeks of years to receive her Messiah.
Of course she rejected Him, and now the NT puts a surprising twist to the OT prophecies of Israel.
Hint, Read Eph 2 and Gal 3.

3am

3 AM, Do you consider yourself a Preterist? Where do you place the 42 month reign of the False messiah?

This is true. It is a time period designated for Israel to prepare for and accept her Messiah.
The 70 week decree is not a covenant, it is a prophecy. There is absolutely no indication of the establishment of the 70 weeks as a covenant anywhere in the prophecy.
I have never seen a reputable scholar consider this a covenant. There may be one out there but I have never seen it.


There is no balance of time. The Prophecy says "70 weeks." Specific numbered time periods always refer to continuous time. There is no example anywhere in the Bible of a specific time period being anything but continuous. To insert a 2000 year gap between the 69th and 70th week makes for good fiction, but is not Scriptural.


This interpretation totally disregards the testimony of Jesus and the NT writers.
While it is true that Jesus is the one to confirm the covenant, it is also true that he did confirm the covenant.
The covenant is God's covenant that he made with Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, David and Israel.
While this prophey, not covenant, does designate time for Israel, the prophecy itself is all about Jesus.

Dan 9:25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks
This is a prophecy of the coming of the Messiah. It is important to recognize that Messiah "comes" after the 69th week.
Messiah means "Anointed one."
The Messiah came at the end of the 69 weeks of years in 27 AD when Jesus was baptized in the Jordan river by John the Baptist.
He was in fact anointed by the Holy Spirit, acknowledged as God's Son by God himself and began his ministry as Messiah at that time.
Jesus even declared "The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel. Mark 1:15.
What time? Obviously the end of the 69 weeks.
This is why it is so important to include the NT interpretation.

Now notice:
After the sixty-two ‘sevens,’ the Anointed One will be cut off and will have nothing. (v 26).
Now we can see that Messiah would be cut off (crucified) after the 69th week.
He was to appear and be cut off after the 69th week.
We know that his ministry lasted 3 1/2 years after he was anointed.
This prophecy does not yet predict when the cross would take place, it just says he would be cut off after the 69 weeks.

Next:
(v27) "He will confirm a covenant with many for one ‘seven.’ In the middle of the ‘seven’ he will put an end to sacrifice and offering."
Recognizing continuous time in the prophecy, the middle of the 70th week would be 31AD.
Jesus is the one who caused the sacrifices and offerings to cease when he himself became the one sacrifice for all times in 31AD.
When he died, the vail in the temple was torn from top to bottom signifying the end of the sacrifices and offerings.
Mat 27:51 At that moment the curtain of the temple was torn in two from top to bottom.
The fact that it was torn from top to bottom signifies a supernatural rending of the veil.
Now the Jews tried to sew it up and resumed the sacrifices but they were not sacrifices according to God's plan.
To ignore this point makes abomination of the Gospel and leaves it desolate.
Jesus confirmed with his own life, blood and resurrection the covenant God made with His people.
He lived among them for 3 1/2 years.
He died in the middle of the week.
He gave them 3 1/2 years more after the cross to repent and reconsider but in 34 AD Stephen received the final vision from God for the nation of Israel.
He condemned them for their rejection of the Messiah. The vision was sealed. Stephen saw Jesus "standing up" at the right hand of God, signifying that the 70 weeks had come to an end. The Nation condemned herself by rejecting Jesus. Saul of Tarsus gave the command and Stephen was stoned.
Saul of course encountered that same Jesus, accepted him and was foremost in preaching the Gospel to the Gentiles.
He became a part of the Remnant of Israel (Romans 11:1ff).
Those Gentile believers who accepted the Gospel joined him as part of the remnant!
The Israel of God is now the church of Jesus Christ consisting of all believers across denominational borders who truly follow the Lamb (Eph 2, Gal 3).

The rejection of the sacrifice of God's Son was the greatest of all Abominations.
The reoffering of the sacrifices after the cross was an abomination of the Gospel.
That is why, when Jesus himself left the temple for the last time, he said:
"Look, your house is left to you desolate." Mat 23:38
Jesus himself is the holy place. He is greater than the temple!
"I tell you that one greater than the
temple is here." Matthew 12:6
That is why he said:
“Destroy this temple, and I will raise it again in three days.” John 2:19
20 The Jews replied, “It has taken forty-six years to build this temple, and you are going to raise it in three days?” 21 But the temple he had spoken of was his body.
When Jesus spoke of the temple, he was speaking of his spiritual temple, his body, the church.
It is the church that is "20 built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, with Christ Jesus himself as the chief cornerstone. 21 In him the whole building is joined together and rises to become a holy temple in the Lord." Eph 2:20,21, also 1 Pet 2:4, 5.
They insisted on interpreting his words literally instead of spiritually. They thought he meant the literal temple.
Pre-tribbers looking for a literal temple and overlooking the spiritual temple are making the exact same mistake those who rejected Christ made.
They are walking on dangerous ground.

The temple was left desolate because of the rejection of Christ.
Some 40 years later in 70 AD, we see the final consumation of that tradgic event when the temple was destroyed by Titus and his Roman Soldiers standing in the very courtyards where the sacrifices were offered with their idolatrous banners and destroyed the temple. Just as Jesus predicted in Mat 24.
That event should never be divorced from the cause of that destruction, the abomination of the rejection of Jesus which left the temple desolate.
And it will continue to be desolate until the end.

Today, instead of a temple on earth, Jesus is our high priest in the temple in Heaven.
Heb 8:8:1 The point of what we are saying is this: We do have such a high priest, who sat down at the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in heaven, 2 and who serves in the sanctuary, the true tabernacle set up by the Lord, not by man...
9:11 When Christ came as high priest... he went through the greater and more perfect tabernacle that is not man-made. 12 He did not enter by means of the blood of goats and calves; but he entered the Most Holy Place once for all by his own blood, having obtained eternal redemption.
26 But now he has appeared once for all at the end of the ages to do away with sin by the sacrifice of himself.

There is nothing more for Israel or anyone else for that matter to look forward to that Jesus Christ.
28 Christ was sacrificed once to take away the sins of many people; and he will appear a second time, not to bear sin, but to bring salvation to those who are waiting for him.

The one who took away the sacrifices and offerings was Christ, not some future antichrist.
3am

Absolutely Not!
Preterists do not believe in a future resurrection, future fulfillments of the Apocalypse and literal return of Jesus Christ. They are wrong.
But that does not mean they are wrong about everything.

I believe in the Christ Centered Interpretation of the OT prophecies.
Jesus did all that he came to do within the 70 week prophecy.
Israel rejected him as a nation and National Israel withdrew herself from the covenant by rejecting the Lord of the covenant.
National Israel's covenant with God was a conditional covenant dependant on National Israel being faithful to God and his law.
Exo 20:5 Now if you obey me fully and keep my covenant, then out of all nations you will be my treasured possession. Although the whole earth is mine, 6 you will be for me a kingdom of priests and a holy nation.’

While God's covenant with national Israel was conditional, His covenant with Abraha was unconditional because his covenant with Abraham was made to Abraham and his seed (singular) who was Christ. Israel could only take part in that covenant as a nation if she were obedient to God. Obviously she failed.

Individual Israelites accepted him beginning with the Apostles to form the believing remnant of Israel.
Gentiles accepted him and became a part of that same believing remnant.
Now the Old Covenant promises are being fulfilled in the New Covenant Israel, which is the church.
The church does not replace Israel, it is the continuation of the promises God made to Israel.


Acts 2 shows Peter interpreting the OT promises of Joel as being initially fulfilled at Pentecost to the church.
Obviously all of those promises are not completed yet.
They are inaugurated, not consummated.

Another example is James interpreting the prophecy of Amos 9 which forsaw the rebuilding of the house of David as the gathering of Gentiles into the church in Acts 15.
The historical interpretation sees a yet future consumation of the prophecies, including a future antichrist who will further desolate the Gospel.
This began when the Papacy received political as well as religious authority from Constantine and persecuted those who clung to the Gospel and Scripture.
Rome taught salvation by works instead of Grace alone. It is interesting that Justinian destroyed three of the 10 barbarian tribes (10 horns that divided pagan Rome) at the request of the pope because they were Arian heritics by the year 538 AD. The Church of Rome had the power to persecute those who opposed her doctrine of Works and her abomination of the Gospel for 1260 years. If you apply the year for a day principle found in Daniel 9, then 42months = 1260 years. 1260 years after the 3 horns were uprooted would be 1798 when Napoleon sent his general Berthier to Rome with orders to capture the city and bring the pope back captive. The pope died captive in France in 1798, 1260 years after coming to power. (one of the heads received a deadly wound.)
We will see a further manisfestation of a global church built on the foundation established in the roman church during the dark ages.
But that deadly wound will be healed when the world unites behind the Beast and false prophet to form a super church, Babylon, the harlot who is unfaithful to God's commands and attempts to destroy God's saints.
Jesus comes and by means of the 7 last plagues in Revelation 16 delivers his church from Spiritual Bablyonian captivity, destroys the wicked and takes us to live in the heavenly Jerusalem with him for 1000 years. After the the New Jerusalem [with us in it] will descend to the earth, there will be a Great White throne Judgment for the wicked who are resurrected at that time. At some point, even the wicked will join with all and confess Jesus is Lord. Not out of Love for him and a desire to obey him but because it becomes finally obvious that God is Right. He is just and true and they have been wrong. The wicked are destroyed in the lake of fire nd God will literally fulfill all of his promises to the true Israel of God, those who believe in jesus Christ when they live on the New earth with Him.

In other words the focus is on the Gospel and the Word of God, not land and territory in the middle east.
It is all about Jesus
3am

The SDA theology of E.G .White has blinded its members to the truth regarding Israel and the 70th week decreed as being a future period that is still pending. The organization has done this in order to replace national Israel with their church as many denominations of professing Christianity have done. The idea proposes that the Church has become national Israel and that the Lord is finished with the nation. This is deliberate deception and should be noted for all readers of this forum.

The theology of the organization states that there is no breach in the time frame between the end of the 69th week decreed and the 70th and that all has been fulfilled. So essentially the time of the end that the Bible prophets predict has come and gone. This is the preteristic view of endtime exegesis and it is totally false. The claim is that the time of the end of the 70 weeks of years concluded in 70 A.D. They stretch the time frame of the 70th week from about 33 A.D. to reach the inclusion of the Roman invasions of Israel beginning in 70 A.D. of about 34 years plus. This idea contradicts their own claim that no breach exists between the end of the 69th week and the beginning of the 70th week.

This makes no sense and is a ruse and cover to explain away a much longer breach that actually exists and has been lapsing since 33 A.D. to this very day. The unfilled portion of the visions of the Bible prophets, the Lord’s discourse, and Revelation from chapter 4 forward is still future and the Lord is not finished with national Israel as the SDA religion teaches either. The 70th week is decreed for the nation of Israel and the nations of the Gentiles .... not the Church, and this time frame certainly did not run its course over a 34 year period of time back in the first century. It is still in the future and is the same time frame of the coming tribulation period which the Lord will bring upon His return to judge unbelieving humanity.

The SDA organization has been given a bankrupt theology by its founders and still consideres E.G. White to be a prophetess much like the Mormons consider Joseph Smith to be a prophet from God. Both in this case were false prophets, claimed false visions, and published false doctrines purported to be divine inspiration. 3AM teaches Revelation seminars for the SDA organization. Readers should not be deceived by this organization's front of "professing" chriatianity. It is a cult religion of works and spreads another gospel. If one joins the organization they will find this to be true after being drawn into the membership.

Do you think that people giving their lives relates specifically to dying?... forgive my lack of knowledge in this regard, but spiritually Jesus asks us to 'die to self' to become one with him and filled with the Spirit.... and in this Spirit filled time... could that be what is refered to in Scripture.. just a question... any thoughts?

There is still hope for Isreal... God's mercy knows no bounds, though the only way that they will regain favour is through Christ... if you think about it.. its happening.. the tide is turning, there is a growing body of Messianic Jews... which as times get tougher (in the days to come) more and more will return... Jesus came to save as many souls as possible, but time is running out....

"And this is where the confusion begins. Nowhere is God's word, does it state that HIs people, national Israel, are not under the new covenant in the 70th week."

This thinking is not true. Only the "believing" Israelites are part of the Body of Christ. These have been and are very few. The Gentiles compose the majority of the Church. Most of national Israel is still in unbelief and this places them outside of the "new covenant" or any covenant of the Lord's for than matter. Both parties to a covenant must agree as the term requires. If not, the covenant has no effect on the dispartate party. This is going to change during the 70th week decreed when a believing remnant will turn to their Messiah and King. When the fullness of the Gentiles has come into the Church [Body of Christ], then and only then will a significant part of national turn to the Lord.

Also, the covenant confirmed by the Lord is the covenant of the 70 weeks of years decreed in the context of Daniel 9. This covenant is a specific time lapse decreed for reaching the 6 objectives listed for Israel and will consumate during the 70th week which is still future. National Israel will not turn to the Lord until the 70th week decreed. A remnant part of the nation will turn and believe during the period.

True, but that growing body of Messianic Jews is a part of the church. Their blessing comes through Jesus, not National Israel.
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I do agree that only the believing remnant are Part of the body of Christ. The point I am trying to make though, is what about the rest? Isn't salvation still accessable to them through the 70th week? Nowhere in God's word does it state He will allow the Jews to return to sacrificing in the temple for atonement. To the contrary. Read Amos 5:20. This shows the Lords Heart attaitude when the sacrifices are restarted. This will be a total abomination to God when this occurs, and is the reason Why he puts 'Hooks in the jaws" of the invading army. It is so the "heathen may know Me" How do the heathen Know God? only one way, through Jesus. Are Jews "heathen" Yes they are, if they haven't accepted the Lord Jesus as Messiah!!! Maybe not in our eyes, but in the Lord's eyes, they are!![indent][/indent] God's Judgement falls on those who will accept the false instead of the true. If the Lords wrath, His judgement fell within the final seven year period, them He broke His promise to His people!!! He will not Have given them the Full "seventy weeks"! DAniel 12:11, seperates the two events, and locates the aod at the end of the seventieth week. Now this makes sense and allows all to be fulfilled. God's wrath, His Judgement will fall immediately After the 70th week, which allows Him to fulfill and complete his promise that 70 weeks are determined on His peoplpe.

Here is the breach in the contract. No one has understood what it takes to become a believer so everyone is destined for Gods wrath. It is the purging furnace that will remove, the defiled alloy of the world, out of Gods people.

Zechariah 13
8 And it shall come to pass in all the land," Says the Lord, "That two-thirds in it shall be cut off and die, But one-third shall be left in it:
9 I will bring the one-third through the fire, Will refine them as silver is refined, And test them as gold is tested. They will call on My name, And I will answer them. I will say, 'This is My people'; And each one will say, 'The Lord is my God.' "

Isaiah 24
1 Behold, the Lord makes the earth empty and makes it waste, Distorts its surface And scatters abroad its inhabitants.
2 And it shall be: As with the people, so with the priest; As with the servant, so with his master; As with the maid, so with her mistress; As with the buyer, so with the seller; As with the lender, so with the borrower; As with the creditor, so with the debtor.
3 The land shall be entirely emptied and utterly plundered, For the Lord has spoken this word.
4 The earth mourns and fades away, The world languishes and fades away; The haughty people of the earth languish.
5 The earth is also defiled under its inhabitants, Because they have transgressed the laws, Changed the ordinance, Broken the everlasting covenant.
6 Therefore the curse has devoured the earth, And those who dwell in it are desolate. Therefore the inhabitants of the earth are burned, And few men are left.
7 The new wine fails, the vine languishes, All the merry-hearted sigh.
8 The mirth of the tambourine ceases, The noise of the jubilant ends, The joy of the harp ceases.
9 They shall not drink wine with a song; Strong drink is bitter to those who drink it.
10 The city of confusion is broken down; Every house is shut up, so that none may go in.
11 There is a cry for wine in the streets, All joy is darkened, The mirth of the land is gone.
12 In the city desolation is left, And the gate is stricken with destruction.

It is unfortunate that some feel the need to attack other people and their church with half truths and lies.
But if that is what makes some happy then have at it.
Personally I feel sorry for people that have to resort to that kind of thing.
That is the same approach the leaders of National Israel took with Jesus.
They even called him a demon, but they could not prove him wrong.
Whether SDAs, Catholics, Jehovah Witnesses or any one else teaches something does not prove it is wrong.
The only proof of error is Scripture which the author did not offer any.
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