Let's discuss one of the biggest topics if not th biggest topic used by christians today.


when did grace start?

Jn 1:17 For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.

but Jesus was before abraham

Jn 8:58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.

Noah was under grace.

Gen 6:8 But Noah found grace in the eyes of the LORD.

will it ever end?

Heb 13:8 Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.

Grace is a free gift.

Rom 5:15 But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many.

Rom 5:16 And not as it was by one that sinned, so is the gift: for the judgment was by one to condemnation, but the free gift is of many offences unto justification.

Rom 5:18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

what is that free gift?

Jesus had grace upon him? why?
Lk 2:40 And the child grew, and waxed strong in spirit, filled with wisdom: and the grace of God was upon him.

what is that free gift the the Lord gave us?

what is this grace that the Lord gave us?

Noah had it, before Jesus came in the flesh.

Gen 6:8 But Noah found grace in the eyes of the LORD.

but it is written in the NT that grace came with Jesus.

Jn 1:17 For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.

was Jesus here before the NT or was Jesus here before Noah.

why are we told to continue in the grace of God

Acts 13:43 Now when the congregation was broken up, many of the Jews and religious proselytes followed Paul and Barnabas: who, speaking to them, persuaded them to continue in the grace of God.

why are we told to grow in grace?

2Pt 3:18 But grow in grace, and in the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and for ever. Amen.

It is written that

Rom 3:24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

we are Justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Jesus

this is the grace that Jesus bestowed upon all mankind

Rom 5:9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.

this is the free gift the Lord gave to man.

Jn 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Heb 9:14 How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?

this is the free gift the Lord gave to this man.

what have we done to deserve for a God to come down and take the Form of a man and die for our sins?

NOTHING!!!

Jn 1:29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.

GRACE:

Titus 2:11 For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men. 12 It teaches us to say "No" to ungodliness and worldly passions, and to live self-controlled, upright and godly lives in this present age, 13 while we wait for the blessed hope--the glorious appearing of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ, 14 who gave himself for us to redeem us from all wickedness and to purify for himself a people that are his very own, eager to do what is good.

15 These, then, are the things you should teach. Encourage and rebuke with all authority. Do not let anyone despise you.


Grace does work in us, if we are willing.


In His Love,
Suzanne

Hi Suzanne


Titus 2

11: For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,
Paul is saying grace which is Jesus has appeared to all men, this includes the OT, as well as the NT.

12: Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;
Paul is saying grace teaches us to deny ungodliness, worldly lust, and we are to live righteously and godly in this world.
by reading this I must find out what ungodliness is and worldly lust, and how to live righteously.
by reading this I have learned that when Paul says Rom 6:14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.
there is more to what Paul is saying

13: Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;

Grace helps me to look for the coming of Jesus

14: Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.

How did this happen? what did Jesus do for these acts to happen and for it to be called grace?

15: These things speak, and exhort, and rebuke with all authority. Let no man despise thee.

then we must teach and exhort and rebuke .

again I will say most Christians have no idea what grace is.

Grace is Jesus , He is the free gift.

Jesus did not die in Matthew, Mark, Luke or John.

Jesus died when Adam sinned.

Rv 13:8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

Yet the New Testament was prophesied in the OT as an outpouring of grace at a later time. God's righteousness is now available. This was not the case in the OT, hence the prophecies. Grace is power...the power of God to be holy as He is holy. Grace is the power to walk as Christ. This power is not earned, but made available by faith to those who surrender their freedom of action in order to be put under God's authority.

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John

Grace
Kindness; favor.

But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us, even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by GRACE ye are saved;) and hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus: that in the ages to come he might show the exceeding riches of his GRACE in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus. For by GRACE are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: not of works, lest any man should boast. (Eph_2:4-9)

Absolutely agree with the fact that "Grace Is Power"! God-given power made available by faith!


In His Love,
Suzanne

Noah had this grace

Gen 6:8 But Noah found grace in the eyes of the LORD.

Gen 6:9 These are the generations of Noah: Noah was a just man and perfect in his generations, and Noah walked with God.

can Just and perfect fit the mold as righteousness?

Hosea 14:9 Who is wise, and he shall understand these things? prudent, and he shall know them? for the ways of the LORD are right, and the just shall walk in them: but the transgressors shall fall therein.

Hab 2:4 Behold, his soul which is lifted up is not upright in him: but the just shall live by his faith.

Rom 1:17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith

the power is made available by those that believe and do!!!

and Peter let us know that grace is something that has to be kept and increased upon.

PT 3:18 But grow in grace, and in the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and for ever. Amen.

with the strengthening of your faith is the strengthening of your grace. but this strengthening comes about with the increase of knowledge of God.

1Pt 5:10 But the God of all grace, who hath called us unto his eternal glory by Christ Jesus, after that ye have suffered a while, make you perfect, stablish, strengthen, settle you.

do you all agree that grace is Jesus?

do you agree that it is the blood of Jesus?

we were not around when Jesus died for our sins.

yet his blood covers us.

Noah was not around when Jesus died for our sins.

yet Jesus was slain from the foundation of the world.

before any of us was born, before Adam sinned.

Grace was here.

If it is Jesus and If it is his blood

then grace is

Rv 1:8 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.

Rv 1:11 Saying, I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last: and, What thou seest, write in a book, and send it unto the seven churches which are in Asia; unto Ephesus, and unto Smyrna, and unto Pergamos, and unto Thyatira, and unto Sardis, and unto Philadelphia, and unto Laodicea.

Rv 21:6 And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely.

Rv 22:13 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.

is grace that is given from men different from grace that is given from God


Jacob asked Esau for grace
Gen 33:10 And Jacob said, Nay, I pray thee, if now I have found grace in thy sight, then receive my present at my hand: for therefore I have seen thy face, as though I had seen the face of God, and thou wast pleased with me.


Joseph with Pharaoh

Gen 47:25 And they said, Thou hast saved our lives: let us find grace in the sight of my lord, and we will be Pharaoh's servants.

What Is Grace?

Grace is receiving that which you do not deserve.

I see what you are saying ozell, which is why my comment to John was partial agreement with regard to grace. As I too was not in agreement that there was no grace in the OT.

I find that Jesus was present with THEM as well.


1 Cor. 10:1 For I do not want you to be ignorant of the fact, brothers, that our forefathers were all under the cloud and that they all passed through the sea. 2 They were all baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea. 3 They all ate the same spiritual food 4 and drank the same spiritual drink; for they drank from the spiritual rock that accompanied them, and that rock was Christ.


He also gave the following admonition in this chapter:

11 These things happened to them as examples and were written down as warnings for us, on whom the fulfillment of the ages has come. 12 So, if you think you are standing firm, be careful that you don't fall!



In His Love,
Suzanne

YES

A FREE GIFT? Jesus


Jn 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

what have we done for the Lord to do this?

I know I am not worthy for a God to manifest in the Flesh and come die for me.

I am dirt?

man is dirt.

yet this God came and died for me, Dirt.

The new and living Way is no longer understood by modern christians. The supernatural has been replaced by the humanly possible. Ironically, we can speak more of falling from grace, or missing the grace due to a lack of faith. Entry into the kingdom was not possible before Christ. Christ is not a mere prophet. His coming changed the world. His grace is unique. There is a reality now that OT people could only look forward to. The fact that we have experienced so little of this resurrection power is due to our lack of faith. We treat Christ as common, hence we rise no higher than an OT person who only had his own righteousness to work out.

To be sure, God showed favour to individuals, and Israel at times....but the Spirit of God had not yet been poured out on all flesh. The kingdom had not yet been proclaimed. There was no way in at that time. Any other doctrine snubs the person of Christ and reveals a shallow understanding and experience of NT grace.

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John

The good news is people will discern more and more who is of the Lord and who isn't.

Like Paul mentionned once how the apostles discerned the grace that was upon him.

Likewise we discern today more and more our fellow citizens of heaven.

Hi Suzanne,

One of my favorite texts regarding grace is the one you have quoted, "For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men" (Titus 2:11). God has already given salvation to every man; but the majority spurn it and throw it away. The better good news of the gospel is not that God "offers" salvation, but that He has already brought it to mankind.

How do we know that grace is more than just an "offer" of salvation, firstly, the word offer is never used. The GIFT is used. God has given this gift, if we do not open the gift or do not appreciate it, that does not mean He has not already "given it." Again this is the better gospel, the better good news, if you will.

Grace is given even if we are not willing! "For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto [the] many" (Rom. 5:15). In other words, "by the offence of one judment came upon all men to condmnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon ALL MEN unto JUSTIFICATION OF LIFE" (VS. 18).

Acquittal is for all men, Jesus is the "Savior of the world." All have been acquitted! This takes away all the boasting and works. No one will be in heaven and say, "I, I, I, accepted the OFFER of salvation. It was I who said yes." No, No, No. No boasting. Christ has tasted death for EVERYMAN. The free gift of GRACE has come upon all. The only reason many will be lost is because they "spurn" "reject" the gift of salvation already given. GRACE IS THE CROSS OF CHRIST!

"And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, BUT TO SAVE THE WORLD" (John 12:48). Did Jesus fail at His mission of saving the world? Absolutely not, for Jesus, "IT IS FINISHED" (John 19:30). Jesus DID save the world. The question then becomes, "will we have Him?"

Jake

If you are implying universal salvation, I do not agree. There are way too many references within the Word of God to those who will perish or be thrown out into darkness.

I'm not sure what you are trying to convey?

In His Love,
Suzanne

Rom 5:2 By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.

Rom 5:15 But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many.

Rom 5:17 For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.)

Rom 5:20 Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound:

Rom 5:21 That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.

Rom 6:1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?

Rom 6:14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.

Rom 6:15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.

Rom 11:5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.

Rom 11:6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.

Rom 12:3 For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith.

Rom 12:6 Having then gifts differing according to the grace that is given to us, whether prophecy, let us prophesy according to the proportion of faith;

Rom 15:15 Nevertheless, brethren, I have written the more boldly unto you in some sort, as putting you in mind, because of the grace that is given to me of God,

Rom 16:20 And the God of peace shall bruise Satan under your feet shortly. The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you. Amen.

Rom 16:24 The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you all. Amen.

Is Grace the Blood of Jesus?

Rom 5:9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.

when I read the verse in Romans the blood of Jesus fits.

Is this the free gift that gives us a chance at eternal life.

If Jesus had not died we would still be in our sins.

Heb 9:22 And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission.

Mt 26:28 For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

Lk 24:47 And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.


when Jesus as walking the earth as man, man continued to sacrifce animals for sin.

When Jesus died and rose the veil of the temple rent.

Mk 15:38 And the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom.

ending the LAW of animal sacrifice.

because the blood of bulls and goats could not take away sins

Heb 10:4 For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins.

so how much more could the blood of Jesus purge you from sins

Heb 9:14 How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?

Rom 3:25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;

we have Jesus slain from the foundation of the world.

Rv 13:8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

His blood shed for this man.

Mt 26:28 For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

even upon Noah

Gen 6:8 But Noah found grace in the eyes of the LORD.

even on the Patriarchs before the flood , who did not die in the flood.

Luke 3v
23: And Jesus himself began to be about thirty years of age, being (as was supposed) the son of Joseph, which was the son of Heli,
24: Which was the son of Matthat, which was the son of Levi, which was the son of Melchi, which was the son of Janna, which was the son of Joseph,
25: Which was the son of Mattathias, which was the son of Amos, which was the son of Naum, which was the son of Esli, which was the son of Nagge,
26: Which was the son of Maath, which was the son of Mattathias, which was the son of Semei, which was the son of Joseph, which was the son of Juda,
27: Which was the son of Joanna, which was the son of Rhesa, which was the son of Zorobabel, which was the son of Salathiel, which was the son of Neri,
28: Which was the son of Melchi, which was the son of Addi, which was the son of Cosam, which was the son of Elmodam, which was the son of Er,
29: Which was the son of Jose, which was the son of Eliezer, which was the son of Jorim, which was the son of Matthat, which was the son of Levi,
30: Which was the son of Simeon, which was the son of Juda, which was the son of Joseph, which was the son of Jonan, which was the son of Eliakim,
31: Which was the son of Melea, which was the son of Menan, which was the son of Mattatha, which was the son of Nathan, which was the son of David,
32: Which was the son of Jesse, which was the son of Obed, which was the son of Booz, which was the son of Salmon, which was the son of Naasson,
33: Which was the son of Aminadab, which was the son of Aram, which was the son of Esrom, which was the son of Phares, which was the son of Juda,
34: Which was the son of Jacob, which was the son of Isaac, which was the son of Abraham, which was the son of Thara, which was the son of Nachor,
35: Which was the son of Saruch, which was the son of Ragau, which was the son of Phalec, which was the son of Heber, which was the son of Sala,
36: Which was the son of Cainan, which was the son of Arphaxad, which was the son of Sem, which was the son of Noe, which was the son of Lamech,
37: Which was the son of Mathusala, which was the son of Enoch, which was the son of Jared, which was the son of Maleleel, which was the son of Cainan,
38: Which was the son of Enos, which was the son of Seth, which was the son of Adam, which was the son of God.

these people had God's grace on them also.

1Jn 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

Jn 1:29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.

Rv 13:8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

Hi Suzanne,

You may address me as Jake, it's ok.

The only reason many will be lost is because they "spurn" "reject" the gift of salvation already given. GRACE IS THE CROSS OF CHRIST! ... Christ did not come to this world to "judge" the "lost." THEY judge themselves! Lost does not mean saved. It actually means lost. Yet, Jesus is still the "Savior of the world." Jesus does not say, "I am the Savior of ONLY of those who believe."

You may find this a silly notion my dear child, but many, who have never read the Bible do not know that Jesus is the "Savior of the world." ... MOST Christians have procliamed that Jesus is NOT the Savior of the world, only those who believe. I find this arrogant, if you will excuse me Suzanne for being so blunt. ... It's a strange infatuation for most Christians to believe, as the Jews did, they are the "chosen ones."

Let's humble ourselves in the sight of the Lord. ... Let me actually quote scritpure again Suzannne, "... by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon ALL men ujnto justification of life" (Rom. 5:18).

Let's look deeper Suzanne, "FOR ALL HAVE SINNED, and come short of the glory of God; BEING JUSTIFIED FREELY by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:" (Romans 3:23, 24).

In other words dear child of God, ALL ARE SINNERS, and ALL ARE JUSTIFIED FREELY. ... Does this mean ALL will be saved ultimately, ABSOLUTELY NOT. YET, what does the truth do to the "down and out" sinner. It gives them hope, that they are not outside of Christ's saving grace. Is that not the hope of all the down and out sinner? "ARE THEY ACCEPTED?" YES. "To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto Himself" (2 Cor. 5:19). What is our mission? "... and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation." (vs. 19).

We as Christians are to tell the "unbelieving" world that Christ is their Savior and has saved them according to John 3:17; 12:47; Titus 2:11. NO BOASTING ALLOWED! May the unbelieving sinner not reject the salvation that Christ accomplished on His Cross.

Blessings in Christ,

Jake

Dear Jake,

I do intend to comment further in the morning, when I can devote more time to my post, but I just wanted to add that, with regard to what you posted above, this passage comes to mind:

John 12:48 He who rejects Me, and does not receive My words, has that which judges him--the word that I have spoken will judge him in the last day.

In His Love,
Suzanne

Dear Jake,

I agree with your post somewhat. I think what bothers me about it is that to some extent you seem to sort of dismiss the judgment of God. I'm not real clear in what you are conveying.

Yes, I do believe that Jesus IS the Savior of the world...but by the same token I believe what was written in its entirety too, which speaks of God judging.


2 Thess. 1:3 We are bound to thank God always for you, brethren, as it is fitting, because your faith grows exceedingly, and the love of every one of you all abounds toward each other, 4 so that we ourselves boast of you among the churches of God for your patience and faith in all your persecutions and tribulations that you endure,

5 which is manifest evidence of the righteous judgment of God, that you may be counted worthy of the kingdom of God, for which you also suffer; 6 since it is a righteous thing with God to repay with tribulation those who trouble you, 7 and to give you who are troubled rest with us when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with His mighty angels, 8 in flaming fire taking vengeance on those who do not know God, and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9 These shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power, 10 when He comes, in that Day, to be glorified in His saints and to be admired among all those who believe, because our testimony among you was believed.

11 Therefore we also pray always for you that our God would count you worthy of this calling, and fulfill all the good pleasure of His goodness and the work of faith with power, 12 that the name of our Lord Jesus Christ may be glorified in you, and you in Him, according to the grace of our God and the Lord Jesus Christ.


In His Love,
Suzanne

Jn 1:17 For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.

Grace came with Jesus

Jn v
1: In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2: The same was in the beginning with God.

Jesus was in the beginning with God

2Pt 3:18 But grow in grace, and in the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and for ever. Amen.

we grow in grace

Eph 4:7 But unto every one of us is given grace according to the measure of the gift of Christ.

grace is given to eveyone according to a measure of the gift of God?

Eph 4:29 Let no corrupt communication proceed out of your mouth, but that which is good to the use of edifying, that it may minister grace unto the hearers

grace has to be ministered to the hearer?


2Thes 2:16 Now our Lord Jesus Christ himself, and God, even our Father, which hath loved us, and hath given us everlasting consolation and good hope through grace,

with grace comes good hope and a everlasting consolation

2Tm 2:1 Thou therefore, my son, be strong in the grace that is in Christ Jesus.

we have to be strong in this grace?

1Pt 1:13 Wherefore gird up the loins of your mind, be sober, and hope to the end for the grace that is to be brought unto you at the revelation of Jesus Christ;

we have to hope unto the end for this grace

Jude 1:4 For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.

false prophets can turn Gods grace into lasciviousness.

grace is much more than what the pastors have taught.

I understand now why Peter said grow in grace and the knowledge of God.

when you line up the passages that speak on grace and when you know what grace actually is,the Lord opens up the eyes to see that it is a process.

Grace is here, it comes with Jesus, yet there is much more to just being under grace, it is a process that requires maintaining unto the end.

Hi Suzanne,

I believe this particular thread is referring to the question, "What is grace?" Sorry, perhaps I have misunderstood the thread.

However, let me speak to the inspiration you have given. ... When you share with the unbeliever, do you give them "bad news" or "good news?" I know, for many it's a pardigm shift. Many churches have the idea that preaching the judgment is what we "ought to do." A heavy tradition indeed. That may bode well for those who love the idea that "WE are SAVED" and "THEY are NOT." But sadly, the judgment is NOT "GOOD NEWS" for the unbeliever. Is the judgment a biblical teaching? Absolutely. ...

My OBJECTIVE is not to preach to the "choir." Should we teach judgment, YES! First we must remember that God “is longsuffering, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.” 2 Peter 3:9. See also 1 Tim. 2:4; Ps. 103:8; Ex. 34:6, 7. He himself says, “I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked; but that the wicked turn from his way and live.” Eze. 33:11.

Why does Jesus show us tremendous loving kindness and mercy? Because “the Lord is a God of judgment.” Does justice and judgment necessarily mean punishment? Not always Suzanne. Even King David declared, "Against thee, ... have I sinned ... that thou mightest be justifed when thou speakest, and be clear when thou judgest. ..." David was in favor of God's judgment. The book of Daniel points out the good news of the judgment.

" ... until the Ancient of Days came, and judgment was passed in favor of the saints of the Highest One, and the time arrived when the saints took possession of the kingdom. Daniel 7:22.

Suzanne, what has Christ commissioned us to declare, contrary to the rhetoric of the "bad news judgment" of many "pastors?"

I know, I know , I know, ... the Bible speaks of the final judgment of the unbeliever. Yet let us remember, the true Christian "BELIEVES" the BIBLE when it comes to witnessing. How do we witness to the unbeliever? By the judgment of the wicked or the judgment of the believer?

"And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold." ... And this gospel [GOOD NEWS] of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a WITNESS unto all nations; and THEN shall the end come." Matthew 24.

Are we a "WITNESS" or a bad news judgment "Christian" to the world? If any man believes not, "I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world."

Who judges who? Only those who do not believe are condemned. Why? Because he condemns himself. John 3:18. God does not condemn him.

Jake

To my understanding, grace is the power of the Holy Spirit to do the works of God that we cannot do on our own, without Him.

This is the reason that Paul rebuked the Galations, because they thought they could finish in the flesh something that God started by His power and Spirit. If we were saved by Him, then we must continue with Him, and receive His help with all things, until the end. We cannot perfect the work of God through the works of our flesh. He will let us struggle for a season, until we understand that we cannot obey His Word without His help, and we finally ask for His grace.

I'm afraid that this is where we part ways. With my husband being in the ministry/chaplain, it is becoming increasingly difficult to find "the lost". If you will notice, there are very few now days, everybody is saved! Yet if we look at the fruit of this nation, there is something drastically wrong with the testimony. (A) Either we have many false converts, or (B there are many backslidden Christians. Either way, it is not good, anymore than it was good in the days of Isaiah, Amos, Ezekiel, etc. Yet their messages were heartily received from their own! (NOT!). I'm afraid that the church of today is in the very same condition as the Jews of the days of the Prophets. Our nation's fruits bear witness that we are in dire need of REAL TRUTH again, from God's Word. The statistics are that 85% of adult Americans claim to be Christian.....so, why all the rotten fruit?

Something's not adding up, is it?

And here, on this board, I am constantly being met with the comments similar to these:

Isaiah 30:8 Go now, write it on a tablet for them, inscribe it on a scroll, that for the days to come it may be an everlasting witness. 9 These are rebellious people, deceitful children, children unwilling to listen to the Lord's instruction. 10 They say to the seers, "See no more visions!" and to the prophets, "Give us no more visions of what is right! Tell us pleasant things, prophesy illusions. 11 Leave this way, get off this path, and stop confronting us with the Holy One of Israel!" 12 Therefore, this is what the Holy One of Israel says: "Because you have rejected this message, relied on oppression and depended on deceit, 13 this sin will become for you like a high wall, cracked and bulging, that collapses suddenly, in an instant. 14 It will break in pieces like pottery, shattered so mercilessly that among its pieces not a fragment will be found for taking coals from a hearth or scooping water out of a cistern."

It makes me terribly sad that even today, people reject God's Word vehemently.

In His Love,
Suzanne

We may disagree Suzanne,

What will God's message be in the last days? The Good News, that is very clear, according to His end time message. If you dispute that message, ... well, it's up to you. Matt. 24:14. It will be a message of "heart melting love" of what Christ accomplished for humanity on the cross. No one will keep God's commandments through "fright of Him." "Love is the fullfilling of the law."

The Bible makes it clear that the lost will at last fully realize that Christ GAVE them the GIFT of justification and salvation "in Him," but they threw it away. "The grace of God brings salvation to ALL men," not merely offers it. Titus 2:11. Christ has exhausted the penalty of sin. The "death for EVERY man" which Christ "tasted" (Heb. 2:9).

Many legalists fear the message of the "good news" because they think it will lower the standards of law-obedience, unminful that only "agape is the fulfilling of the law." This was the mistake of the Pharisees, the law-obedience message, for they had more laws than anyone! All egocentric motivation produces either lukewarmness or eventual falling-away (Rom. 13:10). It is only love (agape) that "never faileth" (1 Cor. 13:8).

Do we keep the commandments of God? YES, YES, YES! But is that done by condemning them or by loving them, no matter how messed up they are? Can you scare an addict into loving God? God forbid, not in the least. "For I determined not to know anything amongst you, except Christ and Him crucified."

If one grows up with the "shiver in your boots message" it will only do well for the "strong-willed." The "weak-willed" have no chance. Only those who know they are weak can be strong. Those who come across as "strong" only discourage the weak. "For if a man think himself to be something, whewn he is nothing, he deceiveth himself." Gal. 6:3.

blessings in Christ,
Jake

There is no shiver in the boots message, unless you have something to hide. The message consistantly should be God's Word, and if it frightens you, then you might ask "why" and then either believe the message or not.


I have merely shared the portions that many do not "like" to hear, and I am not ashamed of the gospel, ALL of it. The good news and the bad news. It is one package, Jake...even Job was able to figure that out.


By the way, there is a reason that God says: "The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom and understanding".

In His Love,
Suzanne

so do we become dogmatic and legalistic to were we turn people off from giving there lives over to god ?

i am also noticing we have a lot of prodicals christians who have been hurt by other christians

also churches today dont really believe in disciple ship its left to seminary schools

if you cant handle what another brother has to say to how he sees what god is saying to him and how he approaches the bible dont judge jesus did not come to judge but to save


John 3


17 For God did not send his son into the world to condemn the world but in order that the world might be saved through him



but what i am hearing lately is this he came to condemn the world he came to judge the world

this is why i take my time to study the bible and not listen to some one who is legalistic and dogmatic


i noticed you tsth said you have ran into this on this board why did you leave the origonal forum you were involved in all i heard was what about the children what example are we leaving them

what i do and how i raise my child is none of you concern and how a parent raises their kids in none of your concern


your not ashamed of the gospel good i am not ashamed of the gospel when god convicted me he did not give me a nice comfterbal rol in the the church he has me reaching out to the ones the church is to scared to reach out too


i run into prodicals i run into christians who no longer want anything to do with god my last boss is a prodical he avoids the christians in his old church he runs a good cleaning company and some of the staff he has under him are prodicals prodicals that have been hurt by christians

i am also a prodical who has come back tsth but when it comes with you i have to be on gaurd you dont accept what others have to say but you want people hear who disagree with you to accept what you have to say

what do you think god is going to do to those that become stumbling blocks ?



damo

Grace:

Romans 1:5 5 Through Him we have received grace and apostleship for obedience to the faith among all nations for His name,


Hebrews 12:Therefore, since we are receiving a kingdom which cannot be shaken, let us have grace, by which we may serve God acceptably with reverence and godly fear.

And again:

Titus 2:11 For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men, 12 teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly in the present age, 13 looking for the blessed hope and glorious appearing of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ, 14 who gave Himself for us, that He might redeem us from every lawless deed and purify for Himself His own special people, zealous for good works.

15 Speak these things, exhort, and rebuke with all authority. Let no one despise you.


In His Love,
Suzanne

Law verses Grace




Galations 3

10 And all who depend on the law who are seeking to be justified by obediance to the law of rituals are under a curse and doomed to disapointment and destruction for it is written in the scripture cursed accused devoted to destruction doomed to eternal punishment by every one who continue to abide live and remain by all the precepts and commands written in the book of the law and to practice them


Galations 3 English standard version

10 for all who rely on works of the law are under a curse for it is written cursed be everyone who does not abide by all things written in the book of the law and do them



Romans 2 and Romans 3 teach us that god gave the old testamnet law so man would try to keep it find out he could not and realize his desperate need for a savior

if i dont follow the law i am going to loose my salvation or God would not love me if i dont behave properly he would not love me if i am not good he will not love me and punish me if i dont seek the old ways and do what the pharisees and sadducees were doing i am not a true christian if i dont make sacrifices like in the old days i am not a true christian jesus came for the jews then what i am doing hear saying what christ has done in my life why did the jews reject him ?


this is why we have so many prodicals who no longer want anything to do with god or the churches they were committed to i am also observing is this christians tend to leav churches if that church does not meet there needs and when it comes to this forum we have christians who leave other forums and use the very same approach when it comes to this forum i left one forum that i am stil a member of but dont go to that forum for my reasons i still keep in touch with the members i had gotten to know one of the watchmen is encouraging me to come back yet i like it hear to much i do go back but not often i told him i am better of hear were i can see what god is doing in others and share were i am at

so who is then grace for is it for the law abyding citazens who stick to the law ?


what about the rest of us do we have to grovel ? are we going to be punished are we going to be sent to the lake of fire if we dont want to become dogmatic and legalistic ?

that is why i dont hide behind the scripture passages i have high lighted what i have highlighted in my bible means something to me its personal it has spokken into my life




Damo

what law is Paul speaking of Damo?

Hi

what about Noah?

where was his struggle?

Jesus said to Noah,

Gen 6:8 But Noah found grace in the eyes of the LORD.

Gen 6:9 These are the generations of Noah: Noah was a just man and perfect in his generations, and Noah walked with God.

Notice I said Jesus said to Noah concerning grace and then the Lord said that Noah was a just man.

where do we see the involvement of the Holy Spirit?

remember it said (Jesus) the lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

Rv 13:8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world


when we read Galatians there is a law that Paul talks about. This Law Paul discusses has a correlation with grace.

Its not the commandments,dietary law, circumcision nor feast days.

It is the law of animal sacrifice.

Grace is a free gift,

that free gift is the blood of Jesus.

before Jesus blood was shed for the sins of the people, what method did man use for the remission of sin?

that method was animal sacrifice!!!

i will get back to you as i am going over 1 corinthians 2 corinthians i am also going over Galations and i am going over romans

so i dont depend on other peoples revelations ozell i have had to give over a lot of things so what i am putting up is what i have been observing and handing over to god



Romans 3 English standard version


12 For all who have sinned with out the law will also perish with out the law and all who have sinned under the law will be judged by the law


this is one law i am going over know



13 for it is not the hearers of the law who are righteous before God but the doers of the law who will be justified


14 for when Gentiles who do not have the law by nature do what the law requires they are a law to them selves even though they do not have the law

15 they show that the work of the law is written on their hearts while their conscience also bears wittness and their conflicting thoughts acuse or even acuse them


16 on that day when according to my gospel God judges the secrets of men by christ Jesus


17 But if you cal your self a jew and rely on the law and boast God


18 and know his will and aprove what is excellent because you are instructed from the law


19 and if you are sure that you yourself and a guide to the blind a light to those who are in darkness


23 you who boast in the law dishoner God by breaking the law


24 for it is written the name of the lord is blasphemed among the gentiles because of you


who was paul talking to hear ?



i can go on just by what i am looking at know but i am seeing how i see this for my self some one else will have a diffrent interpretation of how i see this for my self

and i am starting to under stand why we have so many prodicals who no longer want anything to do with the churches they were connected to


but i wil see by your responce if i have given you what you are asking ozell








damo

Sister Suzanne,

Mal 1:6 A son honoureth his father, and a servant his master: if then I be a father, where is mine honour? and if I be a master, where is my fear? saith the LORD of hosts unto you, O priests, that despise my name. And ye say, Wherein have we despised thy name?

thank you for fearing God and not man!!!

2Tm 4:3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
4: And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.

thank you for not scratching the itching ears


Isa 30: 9: That this is a rebellious people, lying children, children that will not hear the law of the LORD:
10: Which say to the seers, See not; and to the prophets, Prophesy not unto us right things, speak unto us smooth things, prophesy deceits:
11: Get you out of the way, turn aside out of the path, cause the Holy One of Israel to cease from before us.
12: Wherefore thus saith the Holy One of Israel, Because ye despise this word, and trust in oppression and perverseness, and stay thereon:


I've learned that some people can't handle truth they want smooth words even lies.

Sister keep preaching the truth and continue in you method on how you bring it.

People should pay attention to the message and not the messenger

Peace to you in the Mighty name of Jesus

I have been taking notes as I read this thread. Just as if I were sitting under a teacher. I went back and reviewed my notes and this is what I gleaned. I really loved this study, and i hope there will be more to come soon.

Romans 5:17-18....receive abundance of grace and the gift of righteousness.....
2 Peter 3:18...grow in grace
Eph 4:29 ...grace has to be ministered to the hearer......speak about it
John 1:17 ...grace & truth came by Jesus.....
John 3:16 ...believeth in him....everlasting life...
Rom 1:17 ....faith to faith....=growing. because more of God is revealed...our faith is based on who we know God to be...
Hosea 14:9...the just walk in them..the right ways of the Lord...
2 Thes 2:16...with grace comes good hope & everlasting consolation...
2 Tim 2:1...we have to be strong in this grace....
1 Peter 5:10...the God of all grace....called us....after that ye have suffered....make you perfect (remember the prodigal son...
Heb 9:14...the blood of Christ...purge your conscience from dead words...let God change you from the inside out...
1 Peter 1:3...we have to hope to the end for this grace
seeing Jude 1:4...false prophets can turn Gods grace into lasciviousness.....guard your heart

law<death<sin<blood<grace<truth<righteousness<faith<eternal life<glorifying God for ever and ever and ever....is the greatest gift, thank you Jesus!

Thank you ozell, for your preparation. Thank you everyone else, for your additions. Thank you God, for your word.

Holy God, let me always be willing to sit at your feet and be taught by You. Give increase, wisdom, understanding, faith & grace to your hungry children.

i will...believeHim

No!!! Thank you and everyone else also for taking the time to look into this.

I chose this topic because I hear in the Christian community the saying I am under the grace of God.

or they quote PAUL SAYING

Rom 6:14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.

here is a little test

next time a person quote the verse or say the word grace, ask them what is grace according to the bible?

you will be surprised that most will not know.

grace is a word that we all MUST understand.

we have to understand that grace is associated with Jesus, free gift, blood, animal sacrifice, understanding, knowledge
before the foundation of the world, Jesus coming in the flesh. Jesus death and resurrection. judgment and Prayer, it is all connected.

lets continue to study and get a understanding in Grace.

Hi Suzanne,

No man of the "natural nature" likes to hear about judgment, why? Because it is antagonistic to the "natural mind." Yet, judgment, to the "spiritual mind" is in favor of the same. Perhaps you did not read my post, I am in FAVOR of the JUDGMENT, but you turned it into an adversarial role against me! As you stated, "unless you have something to hide."

My life is wide open, a father who physically beat me to a pulp, emotionally abused me, he pointed guns and attacked my mother with knives. Yet, he was an "outstanding citizen" amongst the community. I HAVE NOTHING TO HIDE dear sister. Love has won me over, not fright of the judgment.

When I talk of TRUE "LOVE." .... I am NOT talking of mere sentalmentalism, nor "fuzzy" feelings. I am talking of "OBEYING CHRIST JESUS." I FULLY believe in total SANCTIFICATION OF THE HEART. .... which I believe is OBEYING THE TRUTH, which leads to the full heart surrender to Christ Jesus, not some kind of mamby pamby statement, I AM SAVED!

This is what I have heard from a few on this sight. ... You MUST keep the commandments, MUST, MUST, MUST, obey the commandments. Again, this was the approach of the Pharisees, let's understand dear child, no man MUST keep the commandments, Jesus is not INTO COHERSION, or FORCE, if you will.

If we truly LOVE HIM, we WILL keep the commandments, but HE does not FORCE anyone to do so dear child. It's not a "MENTAL ASSENT" to truth, but an exercise of the hearts soul!

Jesus Christ often talks of the MIND and HEART. There is a difference. One is an OBLIGATION, the other is a total SURRENDER of the HEART. The Pharisees always felt "obligated to obey the commandments." But the true Christian is warmed, melted, estatic, and overly joyed to keep God's commandments. BUT, we do NOT OBEY COMMANDMENTS, WE OBEY A PERSON in the name of CHRIST JESUS. IF anyone is trying to OBEY a SET of RUlES, then they have not really fallen in love with their SAVIOR.

"For with the HEART [not the mind] man believeth unto righteousness: and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation." Romans 10:10.

Now then, is judgment true? Yes, a thousand times yes. I have preached judgment a thousand times, IN THE CONTEXT OF THE GOSPEL, THE "GOOD NEWS." No man or woman can be saved without the CROSS, it's an impossibiltiy! Was Paul wrong when He stated, "For I DETERMINED not to know anything amongst you, EXCEPT CHRIST AND HIM CRUCIFIED." Can there be any greater love than that?

You stated from the Bible Suzanne, "The fear of the Lord is the 'beginning' of wisdom and understanding." That's true, but yet the Lord was specific, FEAR is the BEGINNING. What is the End of FEAR? LOVE.

"There is no fear in love; but perfect love casts out fear: because fear has torment. He that fears is not made perfect in love." John 4:18

My point being Suzanne, we may talk of judgemnt, but if we think that "judgment" will "warm" hearts, then the cross may be obsolete. That was my whole point, but you turned it around to make it sound like "cheap grace." Since when is the cross of Christ cheap dear sister? The God of the universe was willing to give up "eternal life" for us. How do we know? Because mankind was willing to do so. Is not God's love more so?

Moses stated, "Yet now, if thou wilt forgive their sin--; and if not, BLOT ME, I PRAY THEE, OUT OF THY BOOK which thou hast written." Exodus 32:32, 33. Paul stated, "For I could wish that myself were ACCURSED from Christ for my brethren, my kinsmne according to the flesh" (Romans 9:3). Paul was willing to lost for all of eternity for HIS ENEMIES. ... Hence, let's not make "love" sound like "nothingness." It's not some kind of "humanistic" "fuzzy" "sexual feeling." TRUE LOVE IS GOD. ... nothing more powerful. Let's not let human secuarlism and the devil "steal" the true meaning of God's love. Let's claim it back as actually meaning something powerfully significant. ... By the way ...

My name is Jake, it's ok to address me as such. "Clamor" was not your necessary intention dear child. You stated, "unless you have something to hide." I find that to be an odd statement, for we do not even know each other. Let us be kind and tenderhearted towards each other (Eph. 4:32), not adversaries. Ephesians 4:31 talks of the evil of "clamor," this is especially talking of "rumors." Did you just start a "rumor" about me dear child by saying, "unless you have something to hide."[?] (blasphēmia).



blessings in Christ Suzanne,
Jake

P.S. Hope we can continue and explore "judgment and love" in context.

I didn't contradict you, Ozell, and we are not in disagreement. Also, where I see "grace," I see the involvement of the Holy Spirit, because He is the Spirit of grace, is He not? See Hebrews.

I was not specifically directing the "struggle" to Noah. I was referring to believers who think they can finish in the flesh what God started by Jesus' sacrifice and by the Holy Spirit. Blood of Jesus >> grace (God's power) imparted by the Holy Spirit to obey the Lord and follow His commandments. If His blood purchased our salvation and cleansing of sin, then His blood also purchased our life in God. When God looks at a believer, He sees the blood of His Son, because He is too holy to look upon sin. And where He sees the blood, He imparts grace. In Him we live, and move, and have our being, and we can do nothing (read that again ... NOTHING) apart from Him. That is what Jesus said. Apart from Him, we can do nothing. We must abide in the Vine and continue to receive the sap (grace) because to live that way, is life, and peace.

Dear Jake,

I have no contention with your above post. I am in complete agreement. I guess the problem was that you seemed to respond right from the start as seemingly against what I had posted, which did not make sense, considering that it was ALSO a part of the gospel. BOTH messages are vital....I must have misunderstood your reply to me in the beginning, and mistook it for disagreement, when in fact we do agree in the Word of God.

?

In His Love,
Suzanne

Grace - unmeritted divine favor

Noah found "grace" in the eyes of the Lord. = Unmeritted divine favor

Ephesians 1:6 - "To the praise of the glory of his grace" = unmeritted divine favor

IN Christ - MM

I didn't contradict you, Ozell, and we are not in disagreement. Also, where I see "grace," I see the involvement of the Holy Spirit, because He is the Spirit of grace, is He not? See Hebrews.

I was not specifically directing the "struggle" to Noah. I was referring to believers who think they can finish in the flesh what God started by Jesus' sacrifice and by the Holy Spirit. Blood of Jesus >> grace (God's power) imparted by the Holy Spirit to obey the Lord and follow His commandments. If His blood purchased our salvation and cleansing of sin, then His blood also purchased our life in God. When God looks at a believer, He sees the blood of His Son, because He is too holy to look upon sin. And where He sees the blood, He imparts grace. In Him we live, and move, and have our being, and we can do nothing (read that again ... NOTHING) apart from Him. That is what Jesus said. Apart from Him, we can do nothing. We must abide in the Vine and continue to receive the sap (grace) because to live that way, is life, and peace.


Hi sister

Forgive me if I seemed harsh that is not my attention.

I understand where you were taking the topic and I agree with your understanding.

I want you if you may to make it very simple using the word of God, giving examples out of the bible.

I want the people who are reading this topic to understand the word Grace.

I want the people to be able to go into the bible old and new and show anyone who approach the meaning and understanding of Grace

again forgive me if I led you to think I'm in disagreement with your post.

This word grace is misused and misunderstood.

it is a word people hide behind to break the commandments.

Rv 13:8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

we are bought with a price.

1Cor 6:20 For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's.

1Cor 7:23 Ye are bought with a price; be not ye the servants of men.

what was we purchased with?

Mt 26:15 And said unto them, What will ye give me, and I will deliver him unto you? And they covenanted with him for thirty pieces of silver.

That 30 pieces of silver delivered up the Lord.

1Jn 1:7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.

Mt 26:28 For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

1Cor 15:17 And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins.

Jesus blood is what purchased us from death, If he had not died and raised we would be yet in our sins.

Heb 9:22 And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission.

there has to be blood shed for the remission of sin.

Rom 3:25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God

it is the past sins that are removed.

so what is grace? a FREE GIFT

adam committed the offence. Jesus is the grace.

Jn 1:29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.

Rom 5:15 But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many.

Rom 5:16 And not as it was by one that sinned, so is the gift: for the judgment was by one to condemnation, but the free gift is of many offences unto justification.

Rom 5:18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

what did you do to obtain and maintain this free gift?

I was not there and I have done nothing for this God called Jesus to come down and die for my sins.

let's look at grace in the old testament next.

Rv 13:8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

Jesus, the one they claim to worship, is called "OUR PASSOVER" .... For even Christ our Passover is sacrificed for us.
(I Corinthians 5:7)

If the Passover represents Jesus, then everyone that professes to believe in him should observe his holy day. Take notice that the Passover and all the other holydays written in the Bible be- long to the LORD and not to the Jews. These are the FEAST OF THE LORD, even holy (gatherings) which ye shall proclaim in their seasons. On the fourteenth day of the first month at even is the LORDS PASSOVER." (Leviticus 23:4-5). In this passage we see not only that the Passover belongs to the Lord but that it is to be observed once a year, not once a month as communion is held.

Why has the world gotten away from the Lord's Passover? The Bible teaches us that Satan has deceived the whole world. (Revelation 12:9). You might ask, how has Satan done this? He has cunningly replaced the Lord's Passover with communion and Easter, which the Bible does not support.

However, the Bible, clearly supports the Passover and Jesus not only celebrated it but had to die (be sacrificed) on this very day. That's right, what we have always called the 'Last Supper' was nothing more than the Passover, "Ye know that after two days is the Feast of the Passover. and the Son of man is betrayed to be crucified." (Matthew 26:2)

Maybe you thought that Jesus was called The Lamb of God, just to add to his many titles. No, Jesus is the true sin offering. The Lamb that Moses and all of Israel killed on that first and every subsequent Passover evening, represented Jesus, read Exodus 12.1-14.

This is what the Passover is all about Just as Israel had to put the blood of that physical lamb over their houses to be spared (Passed-Over) in Egypt, we must come under the blood of that spiritual lamb (Jesus) to be spared today. Notice what Peter said in I Peter 1: 18-19; "For as much as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things... but with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and Without spot."

By now you should realize that the Passover is a memorial of the death of Jesus, which was instituted long before he came. This day is supposed to be celebrated once a year on a set day, forever. Jesus did not say do it often (every last or first Sunday) buy he said as often as you do it (once a year), do it in remembrance of me. (I Corinthians 11:24-25) Now the people understood why they had been keeping the Passover and were to continue to keep this Holy Day, in honor of Jesus our Passover.

Knowing that Jesus told us to continue to observe his Passover let us see how long we are to do so. "And this day shall be unto you for a MEMORIAL: and ye shall keep it a feast to the Lord throughout your generations: Ye shall keep it a feast by an ordinance for ever" Exodus 12:14.

Remember Jesus is the lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

Rv 13:8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

so when you read the book of Exodus concerning the passover was already thought out before a man was created.

Remember the Blood. whether it is Jesus or the animal that supposed to represent Jesus until he came in the flesh.

Heb 9:22 And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission.


Ex12v
1: And the LORD spake unto Moses and Aaron in the land of Egypt, saying,
2: This month shall be unto you the beginning of months: it shall be the first month of the year to you.

3: Speak ye unto all the congregation of Israel, saying, In the tenth day of this month they shall take to them every man a lamb, according to the house of their fathers, a lamb for an house:

4: And if the household be too little for the lamb, let him and his neighbour next unto his house take it according to the number of the souls; every man according to his eating shall make your count for the lamb.

5: Your lamb shall be without blemish, a male of the first year: ye shall take it out from the sheep, or from the goats:


1Pt 1:19 But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:

6: And ye shall keep it up until the fourteenth day of the same month: and the whole assembly of the congregation of Israel shall kill it in the evening.

Jesus was killed by the church(Israel)

7: And they shall take of the blood, and strike it on the two side posts and on the upper door post of the houses, wherein they shall eat it.

MT 28: 26 And as they were eating, Jesus took bread, and blessed it, and brake it, and gave it to the disciples, and said, Take, eat; this is my body.
27: And he took the cup, and gave thanks, and gave it to them, saying, Drink ye all of it;

28: For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

8: And they shall eat the flesh in that night, roast with fire, and unleavened bread; and with bitter herbs they shall eat it.

9: Eat not of it raw, nor sodden at all with water, but roast with fire; his head with his legs, and with the purtenance thereof.

10: And ye shall let nothing of it remain until the morning; and that which remaineth of it until the morning ye shall burn with fire.

11: And thus shall ye eat it; with your loins girded, your shoes on your feet, and your staff in your hand; and ye shall eat it in haste: it is the LORD's passover.

12: For I will pass through the land of Egypt this night, and will smite all the firstborn in the land of Egypt, both man and beast; and against all the gods of Egypt I will execute judgment: I am the LORD.

13: And the blood shall be to you for a token upon the houses where ye are: and when I see the blood, I will pass over you, and the plague shall not be upon you to destroy you, when I smite the land of Egypt.

1Jn 1:7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.

Rv 7:14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

we are bought with the blood of Jesus we are not our own

1Cor 6
19: What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?

20: For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's.

1Cor 7
21: Art thou called being a servant? care not for it: but if thou mayest be made free, use it rather.
22: For he that is called in the Lord, being a servant, is the Lord's freeman: likewise also he that is called, being free, is Christ's servant.
23: Ye are bought with a price; be not ye the servants of men.
24: Brethren, let every man, wherein he is called, therein abide with God.


before Jesus came in the flesh

what sin did the animals do to be sacrificed for our sins?
when Jesus came and died what sin did he commit to die for OUR sins?

we have the free gift even in the OT.
we have the free gift in the NT.

all men have sinned and have come short of the glory of God.

Rom 3:23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

1Pt 1:10 Of which salvation the prophets have enquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you:

in the flesh

Jn 1:29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.

Amen, and amen.

Romans 6
1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound? 2 Certainly not! How shall we who died to sin live any longer in it? 3 Or do you not know that as many of us as were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into His death?

I don't always give chapter and verse, because so much of the Word is integrated inside of me and in my thinking and daily living, so I constantly have to remind myself to break it down for others. I will attempt to do so more.

Grace is favor.
In the Hebrew and Greek, it is best translated as "favor."

It is God's favor that he wants to save people in general.
It is his favor revealed in the coming, death and resurrection of Jesus accomplished in order to truly offer salvation to people at all.
Before Jesus came, God's favor was less clear. It was not a fully demonstrated and sealed thing for people.

Now that Jesus has come, God has demonstrated his love, justice and mercy fully through Jesus.

Hi Ozell,

I am not playing games dear brother, lives are at stake. You stated, "Rom 3:23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;" What is the next verse in context with "all have sinned"[?] "For all have sinned, ... Being justified freely by His grace through the redmemption that is in Christ Jesus." (vs. 24).

-- "All ... sinned." That included me.
-- The same "all are justified."
-- And they are "justified freely" (they pay nothing, they merit nothing, no boasting).
-- It's by GRACE (that means free to all underserving people without exception). Unless we think we are deserving.
-- And it's not only by GRACE, it's by GRACE "alone."
-- The "act of liberation," if you will, is for ALL, because ...
-- it's "in the person of Christ Jesus," ..."the Savior of the world."

There are those who actually worry that believing this would encourage people to go on sinning. Yet the ONLY "FAITH" that WORKS is the kind that "WORKS THROUGH AGAPE." IF they do not really BELIEVE that everyone is a SINNER and come short of the GLORY OF GOD, BEING JUSTIFIED BY HIS GRACE, then perhaps there is unbelief. God treats the whole human race as if they were just, a legal acquital, if you will, according to Romans 5:18. (really read the verse!).

IF you "believe" the said scripture, then He transforms you and makes you just "in Christ." IT'S called JUSTIFICATION BY FAITH. One is a "legal justification," the other, when you believe, will give lead you to a full surrrender of "sanctification by faith."

You shall know the truth, and the truth shall set you free.

blessings in Christ,
Jake

Grace is Gods Sovereign Spiritual Power In Christ Jesus...Its Sovereign rom 5:

21That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.

The word reign is
basileuō:

1) to be king, to exercise kingly power, to reigna) of the governor of a province

of the rule of the Messiah

c) of the reign of Christians in the millennium

2) metaph. to exercise the highest influence, to control

Grace is a Sovereign king, for it immanates from the Sovereign King jn 1:

17For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.

rom 5:

That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.

It is discrimnatory rom 11:

4But what saith the answer of God unto him? I have reserved to myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal.
5Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.
6And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if