God created everything and keeps it Going. God is the Spirit that sustains life.

I don't think you'll find any argument with that!





In His Love,
Suzanne

I know there are a few atheists lurking about and I thought this might get them riled up, a little. Looks Like they are lazy atheists?

On the contrary, God is defined to have been created everything, and atheists find it meaningless to argue against the dictionary. This doesn't tell us whether it has to be true or false.

Anyways, you probably meant, "created everything except Himself."

Hello Neil
No! I meant God created everything. Before there was anything, There was God. Can you comprehend that?

Also there is much more to the Creation than what people know or realize. There is not just the Realm of Nature, i.e. the physical space of the "Known Universe"; there are other Transdimensions and the Realm of Super Nature. The Lord has transported my spirit to some of these places and they are real. Some are incredible, surreal and others horrific and devoid of the Presence of God. People's meager minds and imaginations are far too feeble and miniscule to fathom and comprehend the incredible depths and breadth of the Creation and the Trans-Universal Superstructure (TUS). God is simply amazing.

-7

yes you are correct

Are you referring to God the Father or God the Son? In creation.

Explain to me how something can create itself then.


More like, everything 'but' God.


Of course this is a coherent concept. Something that can create itself is comprehensible. This doesn't mean we'll know why or how that's possible.

To be fair and balanced (Lamed), Neal . . .

I have selected the answer's from orthodox/non-orthodox agreement. How about
that ?

And yes, indeed, the Sovereignty of God (IHVH) . . . explains, ' how something can create
itself ` . . . includes everything, since God (IHVH) is the Sovereignty, of all things.

And we can through spiritual discernment, understand and it becomes comprehensible.


8888+cross/tau+8 Octave, +Sovereignty of God(IHVH)

http://dnascienceconstructspathtogod.blogs...reignty-of.html


http://reluctant-messenger.com/Lost-Doctri...stianity004.htm

Scientist have now defined our Universe as 10 dimensional with 4 space-time dimensions and 6 other dimensions curled away infinitely small. This is known as the 10 dimension solution in the super-string theory. Some versions have the universe described in 10 spatial dimensions and one dimension of time.


The first clue to what is being discussed can be discerned in the writings of John:

John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God; 2 this one was in the beginning with God; 3 all things through him did happen, and without him happened not even one thing that hath happened. YOUNG'S LITERAL TRANSLATION

This statement by John is profoundly mystical for it introduces two concepts. Most Christians recognize the part where Christ is introduced as being divine and as the Creator God. What few recognize is that the very concept of a beginning is a hint of a deep spiritual truth. What is commonly recognized as reality had a beginning. The part of God that created had a beginning. This beginning was the Word. The subtle truth that this verse also reveals is that there is a beginningless uncreated God. What we recognize as Christ is the personal God that before the beginning was a meaningless concept. In other words, before there was a creation, there was no Personal God, only the Transcendent Uncreate Absolute was. This is a profound truth that Buddha spoke of:

"There is, O monks, an unborn, unoriginated, uncreated, unformed. Were there not, O monks, this unborn, unoriginated, uncreated, unformed, there would be no escape from the world of the born, originated, created, formed.

"Since, O monks, there is an unborn, unoriginated, uncreated, and unformed, therefore there is an escape from the born, originated, created, and the formed."
The Gospel of Buddha - Sermon at the bamboo grove at Rajagaha

For Eternity, God was before Creation. This means for Eternity, allness contained only God. The best way to put it in words is to say God was Eternal Infinite (Endless, Unbounded, Unlimited) Awareness in perfect Balance. For Eternity, God had no personality because a personality is used to interact with other persons. God only manifested a personality after God had a creation to interact with. The part of God that is Eternal Infinite Awareness in perfect Balance still exists, always has and always will.

Every other Christian in this forum argues that God existed for an infinite amount of time, before, he created "everything else."

I guess this is the 1st person that argues God created himself.

Neal :

Thank you, for alway sharing thought provoking exchanges. I learn a lot from you.

And the word infinite is the Ain Sof, limitlessness.

And Sovereignty, is the best earth step to understand the first stages of the Ain Sof.

Then it opens unto --------- the field of harvest . . . ripe with the God (IHVH) of the
universe the Alpha/Omega.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sovereignty

Sovereignty is the exclusive right to have control over an area of governance, people, or oneself. A sovereign is the supreme lawmaking authority. Enlightenment philosopher Jean-Jacques Rousseau, in Book III, Chapter III of his 1762 treatise Of the Social Contract, argued, "the growth of the State giving the trustees of public authority more and means to abuse their power, the more the Government has to have force to contain the people, the more force the Sovereign should have in turn in order to contain the Government," with the understanding that the Sovereign is "a collective being" (Book II, Chapter I) resulting from "the general will" of the people, and that "what any man, whoever he may be, orders on his own, is not a law" (Book II, Chapter VI) – and furthermore predicated on the assumption that the people have an unbiased means by which to ascertain the general will. Thus the legal maxim, "there is no law without a sovereign."

Wow Betty, and I continue to learn a lot from you! You are an expert on finding these gems!

See if these verses help your understanding at all Neal. If not then lets talk more about it. Perhaps I can explain it to where you understand.

John 4:24 God is Spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth."

Acts 7:49 'Heaven is My throne, And earth is My footstool.

I certainly agree with the first post of the thread.

I see no atheists have been 'riled up' yet, but I may stir things up a bit myself by saying that I think evolution is one of the mechanisms of that creation.

Evolution is a misnomer of God doing things His way. Natural evolution does not exist. God has personally brought everything to where it is and will take it to where it is going. He started by creating a mature creation with grown up participants.

I get a real kick when people post Bible verses to prove their religion is valid...

It is about who and what God is. Can you pay attention to what is being said? Side stepping the issue is not an argument or knowledge or wisdom not even for an atheist.

None of those verses talk about God creating the universe or being the universal creator.

Those Bible verses itself are getting off-topic, and you want me to get off topic with them.

This is my topic and my thread. Don't you think that I probably know what I had in mind? Do you understand what and who and where God is by those verses? After this foundation is corrected the rest is a nobrainer. But you are smart enough to understand that. But now ponder the whereabouts of nothing created yet. No hot or cold, no light or dark, no nurves to detect them, no eyes to see it, no ears to hear, no here or there. Nothing but the Spirit that is God.

Wonderful.

Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Joh 1:2 The same was in the beginning with God.
Joh 1:3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
Joh 1:4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men.
Joh 1:5 And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.

God!

So Neal

Do you understand what and who and where God is by those verses?

If you know who and what and where God is, I'd be impressed.

Does this include the creation of all species that have ever existed occurring at roughly the same time? Does this include creating the larger universe so that it has the appearance of being very old and having light that has been traveling for billions of years?

Ah yes, why must you stir up drama.

And this is my photo that defies your 'Adam and Eve' 6,000 years ago story.



My 4 grandparents..

On 1 side, they are White. On another side, they are Chinese.

Sorry, but the Cain and Abel story makes it that all humans are the same race/ethnicity. Clearly this is not the case. Ever seen the Chinese philosopher Confucius whom was around 400 B.C.? And Greek philosophers whom were all White around 300 B.C.?

So the answer is that you can not understand what you read?

When someone's child asked what causes the rain to fall, they chose to say "God does it" rather than "I have no idea, perhaps you'll figure it out some day." Whether this was because they were too cowardly to admit they don't know or whether they wanted to make things interesting for kids, we may never know.


Do you think an incomprehensible explanation is better than no explanation at all?

A theist gives up all hope on how the universe came to be. They will say "God did it," and since they define God to be omnipotent, then we can never understand how he does anything omnipotent.

For example, did God just sharpen his fingers and create the universe? Do you understand how he did it? (An incomprehensible explanation is no better than no explanation at all.)

God did not, "did it". He does it.

Yes! He Spoke it and it happened. In Him we live and move and have our being. Now about the rain.

Isaiah 55:10 "For as the rain comes down, and the snow from heaven, And do not return there, But water the earth, And make it bring forth and bud, That it may give seed to the sower And bread to the eater.

Genesis 1:3-5
3 Then God said, "Let there be light"; and there was light.
4 And God saw the light, that it was good; and God divided the light from the darkness.
5 God called the light Day, and the darkness He called Night. So the evening and the morning were the first day.

Acts 17:28 for in Him we live and move and have our being

The Known Universe is “dieing” and is in a state of “decay”, not accelerated or continued creation, which means its existence is the direct result from “Chaos”, not Creation.

Romans (8:21) - “…that the creation itself will be liberated from its bondage to decay and brought into the glorious freedom of the children of God.”

Quantum physicists working on Super Symmetry and Superstring M-Theory state that their equations indicate a pre-existent state “before” the inception of our Known Universe that they identify as “Paradise Lost”.

This implies that our current degenerating Universe is a “Secondary Universe”, and that a former universal state came before it, possessing entirely different properties that were complete alien to the current state.

The “Holographic Principle” in superstring research appears to indicate that our current universal state is a “Holographic Universe” – a residual shadow of its former self, which explains the 90% unaccountable mass that is missing from the Known Universe.

It was the former and original Paradise Lost (Supra-Paleo-Universe) that God “created”.

It was defiled by the “Angelic Rebellion”, producing “Chaos”.

Its defilement caused God to auto-evacuate the system (the “Spontaneous Theocentric Expulsion” [STE]) to separate Himself from its corruption; this caused a “Hypersingularity Event” in the wake of His departure which “inverted” the system inside-out and through an infinitesimally small opening, a “Metastatic Threshold”, which Big Bang theorists assume to be the small “sub-atomic particle” that exploded and gave birth to our Known Universe, and are not aware that it was actually a tear in the continuum from the former Supra-Paleo-Universe that inverted into the current flat and infinite disk, the “Trans-Universal Superstructure” (TUS).


THE METASTATIC THRESHHOLD









So God is long finished with “creating”. He is “resting”. It is His Son, Jesus (because of His Redemptive Deed upon the Cross of Calvary), who will create a New Heaven and New Earth, which is yet future. This will be a "Universal Transformation" when its decayed state will be"liberated" and "brought into the glorious freedom of the children of God.”

-7

That's a crock.
Creation is exactly where God has brought it to.
Every molecule and every atom, He has guided the same as He has guided the constellations in their seasons and brought the rain and snow down from heaven to water the earth.
God is going to pass away the first Heaven and the first earth and create new ones.
God can do it in an instant and not harm His Own.

Romans (8:21) - “…that the creation itself will be liberated from its bondage to decay and brought into the glorious freedom of the children of God.”------ the Known Universe is in a FALLEN STATE and CORRUPT; and God is separarted from OUT of it, for His very Presence of Purity and Holiness would consume, devour and destroy it, COMPLETELY, for that which is DEFILED cannot not stand in the Presence of God and survive or expect itself to live... Hence, LIGHT PIERCES THE DARKNESS. This is WHY Christ incarnated into flesh, to REDEEM the situation of ALL FALLENESS; and the "Transformation" of the Universe is yet future. Godthe Father, Himself, could not do this because His Presence would have KILLED that which He loved, the Creation, a DEFILED Creation.

God can not be separated from out of it and doesn't need to be. His creation is not corrupt and is perfect. It was all planned exactly this way from the beginning. corruption was planned and is right on schedule to go to it's final resting place.

Psalms 139
7 Where can I go from Your Spirit? Or where can I flee from Your presence?
8 If I ascend into heaven, You are there; If I make my bed in hell, behold, You are there.
9 If I take the wings of the morning, And dwell in the uttermost parts of the sea, 10 Even there Your hand shall lead me, And Your right hand shall hold me.

Isaiah 45:7
I form the light and create darkness, I make peace and create calamity; I, the Lord, do all these things.'

Deuteronomy 32:39
'Now see that I, even I, am He, And there is no God besides Me; I kill and I make alive; I wound and I heal; Nor is there any who can deliver from My hand.

If the current Universe is supposedly "perfect" and "not" corrupted, then how do you explain the need for the creation by God of a New Heaven and New Earth in Revelation 21:1? This implies something is WRONG with the current Universe, as in "falling short of the Glory of God".

-7

Lol, snow comes from Heaven?

Boy, would you believe anything..

I mean, it kind of makes me not want to go there, since it'll probably be really cold. Like the Arctic.

OK, I'll play.

If God created everything then I wonder about the following:

1. Why did he create flightless birds, such as penguins and ostriches?
2. Why did he create animals that live in the sea but have no gills such as orcas, dolphins and whales?
3. Why did he create parasitic wasp species that deposit their eggs in a living host, usually the larvae or pupae of another insect species. The wasp eggs hatch out and their larvae eat their hosts from the inside out.
4. Why did he create a solar system (our own) that only has one planet that can sustain life? All the others are either too hot or too cold and we live on a planet ( as anyone who has spend a winter in Chicago or a summer in Saudi Arabia knows) that is always hovering on a climatic knife-edge. Some design.
5. Why did god allow my sister to die of a defective heart valve after living on this planet for only 5 months and knowing nothing of life but pain?


You wanted a debate End Time, well, now you've got one.

Bring it on.

V.

Um, all of your argument fails...

It is simply a moment in Gods Plan. The Plan that was finished before a single molecule was created.
But the serious question is "will you ever ask God for his Spirit" ?

You must mean it believing.

Only on Gods terms or you are just another fleshly animal raised for the slaughter.
Regardless of what you think you know. If you are not walking in the Spirit that is from Heaven you can't go there, ever.

Obviously Vissarion,

God created all these things you asked about for His Purpose.

Your sisters death is your parents fault and your neighbors fault and your governments fault and a faithless and perverted worlds fault.
God gave them the power to heal her and they let her die.
Now your neighbors kids need you, but where are you Vissarion? All you ever had to do was ask God for His Spirit, believing, To become like His Son.

Hello Vissarion,

Let me attempt to answer some of your questions, and perhaps we can have a healthy debate.

1. What is your point about flightless birds? I suppose you are referring to evolution and the wingspan of the animal not evolving enough for them to fly. In that case why would a wing evolve in anyway, surely the evolutionary process of the bird could not have thought it would one day have a wing to fly, I'm sure the pre-flying creatures did not simply throw themselves off a cliff until their genes found the need for a wing, otherwise they would have long been extinct.

2. I don't see how this is relevant, perhaps just another example of the question above.

3. Parasitic Wasps are considered beneficial because they control populations of agricultural pests.

4. You would have to ask him about the solar system, but as far as I know the Earth is the only planet in the entire universe that can sustain life. If we peer through the lens of science, something remarkable can be shown about our planet. The more we discover, the more we realize that hundreds of conditions are needed for the rich abundance of plant, animal and human life on earth, which have not been found elsewhere in the known universe.

5. That, only God can answer. All life is here for a purpose, perhaps your sister's purpose was do bring people together or do something in her own little way. When you believe in God then there is reason to believe she is now in a better place and living in joy.

I hope that can clear some things up, if not I await your response.

God bless you

Regards
FreedomPower

Where did you go Vissarion? What happened?

Your last words on this thread was : "Bring it on."

Another "wait and see"???





In His Love,
Suzanne

God was, is and will be. He is not a creation as Father, Son or Holy Spirit. There are at least 11 dimensions in the universe, in Creation. Jesus holds everything together as well as being Creator along with the Father and Holy Spirit.

Christ said God is Spirit. Christ also said that He is the Father. There is no mention in any bible verses about 11 dimensions in the universe.

John 4
24 God is Spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth."

John 14
9 Jesus said to him, "Have I been with you so long, and yet you have not known Me, Philip? He who has seen Me has seen the Father; so how can you say, 'Show us the Father'?


"God", who is Spirit, Created everything including a place for Him to dwell.

Ephesians 2
22 in whom you also are being built together for a dwelling place of God in the Spirit.


2 Corinthians 6
16 --- As God has said: "I will dwell in them And walk among them. I will be their God, And they shall be My people."

There is no mention in any bible verses about 11 dimensions in the universe

I know that. What are you trying to say?

"There is no mention by "the supreme teacher" "our example from God" about eleven dimensions in the universe.

There is a mention about healing the sick and raising the dead.

There is a mention about leaving all to follow Christ.

There is a mention about repentance from dead works and faith toward God.

There is a mention about not laboring for food that perishes.

There is a mention of the wisdom of this world that will perish.

There is no teaching about, No example dealing with, and No mention of eleven dimensions in the universe.

There it is all said. Do you understand Jack?

Thanks for being clear.

There is no mention in the Bible of televisions.

Do you know there are televisions despite this fact?

The Bible tells us to not have contact with some beings. We are not to have familiar spirits. There is a lot on different kinds of beings besides us. Who and what are they then?

There is no mention of the television but there is a mention of it's inventor. The prince of the power of the air.

Here it is.

Ephesians 2
2 in which you once walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit who now works in the sons of disobedience,

Romans 1
29 being filled with all unrighteousness, sexual immorality, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, evil-mindedness; they are whisperers,
30 backbiters, haters of God, violent, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,
31 undiscerning, untrustworthy, unloving, unforgiving, unmerciful;




.