http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VFx7YX9dlBc

video, 21 minutes

excellent !......
.....it proves that the RED SHIFT is not the expansion of the entire universe......the evolutionists have lied to us.

.....the RED SHIFT proves that earth is near the center of the universe

the entire universe revolves around the home of the LORD JESUS CHRIST...THE MEEK SHALL INHERIT THE EARTH

JESUS AND HIS BRIDE SHALL INHERIT THE EARTH, AT THE CENTER OF THE UNIVERSE!

WOW!

ISA 40;21
PS 103;19
JOB 38;7

HALOS.COM
ORIONFDN.ORG

But Drs. Robert and David Gentry’s analysis is not biblical at all, because it leans towards “Naturalism” by placing God and the Great White Throne WITHIN the confines of the Physical Universe, when in fact God is "OUTSIDE of and not bound within nature"; God is “Extra-Universal” occupying the Realm of Super Nature, NOT NATURE, He inhabits a “Hyperphysical Transdimensional State” that is isolated and separated from the Physical Universe.

The poster, “tobigforyou,” on the YouTube site that you posted has it correct by saying, “God lives in the Third Heaven (2 Corinthians 12:2),” which is not the Physical Universe; it’s Extra-Universal.

SOURCE: http://preacherwin.wordpress.com/2008/07/0...rk-of-creation/


-7

Of what relevance does proving that the Earth is near the center of the universe do?

Imo, I find it is impossible to infer we are at the center of the universe unless we know the entire width of the universe.

I think scientists just find it silly to "assume" that the Earth is in the center of the universe from a theological standpoint.

God's focus is on Earth and Earthlings.

there are no ETs and martians anywhere

during the Mill Reign, Earth (Jerusalem) will be the home of the Only God-man-Savior, Jesus Christ.

God (the Holy Spirit) fills all the universe......omni-present

God (the Heavenly Father) is on the Throne in the 3rd Heaven.

God became man (Jesus) so that He could be with us............Emmanuel!

Hallelujah!

the earth is the center of the universe.......all of time and space revolves around our Lord Jesus Christ!

the earth is the home of the Saints, who are In-dwelt by the Holy Spirit (the Spirit of Jesus).

THE MEEK SHALL INHERIT THE EARTH...........who is more meek than Jesus Christ?.........No-one!
matthew 5;5
psalm 37;11

I can prove , from the Bible text, that there are no ETs anywhere, or Martians, or UFOs.


Man is the image of God, the crowning pinnacle of all creation. There is no other form of life equal to or greater than man because man is God's image.
Gen 1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.


Who is God?……He is the God of Israel (not Mars).
Jesus was incarnated as a MAN (not a Martian or ET).
There is a MAN (not a Martian) at the right hand of the Throne of God in Heaven, RIGHT NOW!
From Genesis to Revelation, God’s focus is on Earth, Israel, Jerusalem (not Mars).
Who will Jesus marry?……….the Church (mankind, not Martians).
Why did the SON OF GOD become a MAN (not a Martian)?…….He wanted to be ONE OF US ……….EMMANUEL.
Will Jesus die again on Mars for the Redemption of Martians?…………No, He can’t die again (Read Hebrews)…………..Now, His body is a resurrection body, incapable of death.
Where is God’s focus? Earth.
Where did God put His Name? Jerusalem, on Earth.
Where did God put His “peculiar treasure” (the nation Israel)? Earth, in the Promised Land.
What shall the meek (Jesus and His Bride) inherit, as per the Sermon on the Mount? Earth.
Where was the Savior, Jesus, born, crucified, and resurrected? Earth.
Will Jesus die AGAIN for the sins and Redemption of the Martians, on Mars? No. Jesus died a ONE-TIME DEATH, and cannot die again. He is in His Resurrection body now, which CANNOT die or even get sick.
Where will Jesus Return? Earth.
Where will Jesus Reign, during the Millenial Reign? On Earth, in Jerusalem.
Where will we spend Eternity Future, an Endless Day? The New Jerusalem, on (or above) the New Earth.

My point is: God’s focus is on Earth, and Earthlings, and Jerusalem.
There are no ETs. The Bible indicates that there are no Martians..

The (alledged) possiblility of the existance of ETs is simply propaganda for the Evolution Lie.

Why do people “claim” to believe Evolution? It contradicts the Bible; and God’s enemies are try-ing every trick to destroy our confidence in the Bible.

……….

There are a few UFOs which are NOT man-made hoaxes. They are demon-made hoaxes.
Pharoah’s magicians transformed their walking sticks into snakes.
The demons have great super-natural powers.
BUT! God’s powers are greater.
Why does God allow demons (and men) to trick and lie? God is testing our faith and love.

Did God become a Martian? or ET?
no,......He (Jesus) became a MAN!
The Son of God became a MAN (a God-man, Jesus) , who is 100% God, and 100% man.
Why?
He wanted to become ONE OF US (mankind), so that He could SUBSTITUTE for man, and take man's penalty for sin.
A bull cannot substitute for a man……………but a man can substitute for a man.
So, He became a man.and He was resurrected , a man , with a better (resurrection) body,and He now sits at the right hand of the Heavenly Father................a MAN is sitting in Heaven, at the right hand of the THRONE!
WOW!
as in Ephesians, if we are "in Christ", we are "in the Heavenlies" (not down here on lowly, sin-filled earth),
Are the Martians dis-appointed, that God didn't become a Martian?..........No, because , there are no Martians.

*****

why did God put the Adamic curse on ALL CREATION, including angels, stars , planets, galaxies, dogs, cats, and me?.......................because Adam sinned..........Romans 8;22

the curse was put on the Martians, because adam sinned...........(assuming that Martians exist, BUT MARTIANS DON'T EXIST)

was the curse put on Adam, because the martians sinned?..........no, that wouldn't be FAIR AND LOVING AND RIGHTEOUS.

obviously, Martians don't exist anywhere in Creation...........(Dave Hunt said so)...........i learned this from Dave Hunt

thank God for Dave and my Bible!

JJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJ

Emmanuel.............means "GOD WITH US"

MATT 1;23
Mat 1:23 Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.

ISA 7;14
Isa 7:14 Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.

The birth of a Child is prophecied , to be a SIGN.
Jesus Christ is EMMANUEL..............or IMMANUEL


if there are humans, Martians , or ETs anywhere (except earth), ............how could God be with THEM?............if God (Jesus ) is WITH US?

belief in ETs or humans on other planets contradicts the Bible (the doctrine and Person of IMMANUEL, GOD WITH US).

will the ETs come to earth, to be with Jesus?..........of course not...........the Bible contradicts it..............the ETs are not descended from Adam and Eve...............

Gen 3:20 And Adam called his wife's name Eve; because she was the mother of all living.

Eve is the mother of all living,,,,,,,,,so, if there are men on other planets, they must be dead.

there are no men (or anyone else) on other planets


there are zillions of angels and fallen angels (demons) in the Creation,,,,,,,
and the demons sometimes masquerade as Jesus, Mary, Joseph, the deceased, the Saints, ETs, Spirits, spirit-guides, etc.

demons (masquerading as angels of God) appeared to Muhammed and Joseph Smith (and many others) , and started false religions.

the multitude of false religions are satan's ploy,,,,,,,,,,,,,people are bewildered by the thousands of choices,,,,,,,,,,,,WHICH RELIGION IS THE TRUE RELIGION?

we can prove that the Bible is True..........but, most people don't know how.




Rom 8:19 For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God.
Rom 8:20 For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope,
Rom 8:21 Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.
Rom 8:22 For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now.
Rom 8:23 And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.
Rom 8:24 For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for?
Rom 8:25 But if we hope for that we see not, then do we with patience wait for it.
Rom 8:26 Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.
Rom 8:27 And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God.
Rom 8:28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.
Rom 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
Rom 8:30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.
Rom 8:31 What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us?
Rom 8:32 He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things?
Rom 8:33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.
Rom 8:34 Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.
Rom 8:35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?
Rom 8:36 As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter.
Rom 8:37 Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us.
Rom 8:38 For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,
Rom 8:39 Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.


--------------------
Eph 5:11 And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them.

Ephesians 5;11 Amplified Bible
11Take no part in and have no fellowship with the fruitless deeds and enterprises of darkness, but instead [let your lives be so in contrast as to] [d]expose and reprove and convict them.

THE WHOLE WORLD, AND TIME ITSELF, REVOLVES AROUND JESUS CHRIST.
either,...... you're busy promoting Him, ........or you're busy fighting Him,....... (whether you realize it or not).

But the Bible doesn't talk about ETs, Martians, or UFOs.

Can you prove from the Bible that invisible pink unicorns don't exist?


Funny, how a particular country has a God.


And you know what happens when the Bible contradicts science..

A flat Earth (Matthew 4:8 NAB).

"Then the devil took him up to a very high mountain, and showed him all the kingdoms of the world in their magnificence."

Clearly in the 1400s, you can't possibly see all the kingdoms of the world if the world is a sphere! It had to be flat! Christopher Columbus was wrong!

Psalms 104:5 explicitly said that the Earth could never move until it was "re-interpreted" to say "shaken" to hide embarrassment. You can interpret from the Bible that the Earth does not move! That the sun rotates around the Earth!

The Bible didn't say there are no aliens, it said there are no creatures greater than or equal to intelligence than man.

Joh 10:9 I am the door: by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture.

and i can prove that Christ is a literal door, if i want to deny that parts of the Word are figurative, spiritual, poetic, etc

it's obvious that neal loves to hurt people, and hate christ

neal tries very hard to fight christ,,,,,,,which indicates.........neal believes that christ is a real opponent (not a fairy tale)

neal wouldn't try this hard to defeat a myth


why do evolutionists repeat the evolution lie a zillion times every day, to every person?.........their Opponent is powerful, and they try very hard to defeat Him.

Jesus says to let the dead bury their own dead.


Jesus says His followers are not of this world even thought they are in the world.


Again, let the dead bury their own dead.

thanks.

Follower333.

Dennis, this concept of "Anthropocentric Rationalism" where the Earth and Man are at the CENTER of the Universe is merely a CONCEPTUAL RETURN to the error of pre-Copernicus thought, the Ptolemy Model of a geocentric system, where the Church believed that the Earth and Man were at the CENTER of the Solar System and that the Sun revolved around the Earth, based off erroneous interpretations of the Holy Scriptures by “all-knowing” theologians. Pragmatism proved this entirely wrong, just as it will with the idea that the Earth is the center of the Universe. To return to this kind of Anthropocentric Rationalism puts the focus on Man and the Creation (Earth) and NOT on God.

-7

Jesus is a man...........He is a God-man...........you seem to be taking Jesus out of the Center

we dis-agree.

the Truth is:

Jesus is the center of all time, space, universe, everything...............and Jesus is GOD WITH US!.........EMMANUEL!.........so, thus, we (including Jesus) are at the Center!

Hallelujah!

The logic of your argument is extremely flawed.

If Jesus is at the center of the universe, then he could never walk anywhere.

If he were to walk somewhere, the universe and Earth would have to move with him.

Now, if Jesus was walking from point A to point B, then point A and point B can't both be the center of the universe unless they are the same point-location.

The logic of my argument is inescapable.

Neal C.

Jesus lives in my heart, in the form of the Holy Spirit (the Spirit of Jesus).

and i'm on planet earth.
and earth is at the center of the universe

during the Mill Reign , jesus will live (in His physical body/resurrection body), in jerusalem, on earth.

after the Mill Reign, God will make a new heaven and new earth,,,,,,,,,and we will enter a sinless ETERNITY FUTURE,,,,,,,,,on earth, the center of the universe

all bible-readers know this stuff.

neal has never read his bible,,,,,,,,,,,or he is lying against the bible

Ah, I see precisely how your logic is.



Jesus is in Dennis Mann's heart.
Jesus is in the center of the universe.
Therefore, Dennis Mann is at the center of the universe.

Jesus is in Dennis Mann's heart.
Dennis Mann is on Earth.
Earth is at the center of the universe.
Therefore, Dennis Mann is at the center of the universe.


Heaven and Hell, both on Earth?

Ah, I see that makes total sense.

Wonderful to see wonderful logic.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hHRgrOCtux8

video from same scientist/christian

explains the video in the post # 1 of this thread

1 hour 15 minutes

Neal . . . Neal . . . how you have been missed.

Have I overlooked your postings or what ? ( smile )

Ok . . .

What is your opinon of this link.

Now, do not flash through like Gordon on the comic strip.


http://www.mt.net/~watcher/newun.html

Neal . . . why have you not directed this toward point (DOT) ?



http://dnascienceconstructspathtogod.blogs...8/06/d-o-t.html

Why should I reference this to a (.)?

It's just a period.

QUOTE (Neal @ Jul 16 2008, 11:35 AM)
QUOTE (dennis mann @ Jul 16 2008, 04:26 AM)
the Truth is:

Jesus is the center of all time, space, universe, everything...............

The logic of your argument is extremely flawed.

If Jesus is at the center of the universe, then he could never walk anywhere.

If he were to walk somewhere, the universe and Earth would have to move with him.

Now, if Jesus was walking from point A to point B, then point A and point B can't both be the center of the universe unless they are the same point-location.

The logic of my argument is inescapable.

Neal C.


You forget . . . Neal . . . the Level point (DOT)

The A to B point (DOT) is the manmade law.

The Jesus point (DOT) is suspended above the level point center of the universe.

Just like He (Jesus) was suspended as He (Jesus) walked on water. So you do not
understand the walking Jesus from point (DOT) A to point B.


The logic of your lack of belief is as infidel, not inescapable in faith matters.

When the Jesus dot (whatever that is) is above the center point of the universe, he is not at the center of the universe if he is above it.


If Jesus floats above the center point of the universe, he is above the center of the universe.


No you make perfect sense. Any object including Jesus or not above the center point of the universe is above the center of the universe, wheter it's a floating or walking Jesus.

Acts 7:49

King James Bible

Heaven is my throne, and earth is my footstool: what house will ye build me? saith the Lord: or what is the place of my rest?

No. Rather, you seem to be taking Jesus off of His Throne of Judgment in the Third Heaven (the Hyper-Physical Supra-Exoverse), and putting Him in the center of our DEGENERATED lesser Physical Universe. Besides, quantum physic equations reveals that our Physical Universe is merely a LOCAL universe composed of 4 dimensions and the equations cite the existence of 11 dimensions in which 6 parallel dimensions indicate a hyperphysical universal realm, yet there is suspicion that there may be as much as a total of 37 Transdimensions where 17 of these dimensions are assigned to the Realm of God (Hyper-Physical Supra-Exoverse) which is OUTSIDE our LOCAL universe.

In 1993, the Angel of Wisdom came to me and said, "It is a Platyoplaitic Universe." The word "platyoplatic" is a Greek hybrid composed of two Greek etymons: 1) "platyos" = FLAT broad immeasurable circular disk, and 2) "plait" = BRAIDED entwined cord, revealing to me the structure of the universe. In 1993 the equations determining the structure of the universe were not completed. At that time there were 3 models on the table... 1) FLAT, 2) SPHERICAL EXPANSION, AND 3) OPEN HYPERBOLA. SEVEN YEARS LATER in the year 2000, the quantum equations were finally completed, and the absolute conclusion reached was that the universe is FLAT.

So the structure revealed to me SEVEN YEARS prior by the Angel of Wisdom was correct and TRUE. And from the information given to me the following attributes of the structure of the universe are inferred:

1. There is a “Trans-Universal Structure” (TUS) that is FLAT; it is a broad immeasurable disk structured like a 33LP record, where the singular groove in the record represents an umbilical cord (Mega-Umbilicus) coming out of the CENTER of the TUS.

2. The CENTER is an “Uterocore” (Cosmic Womb) that continually generates the “Mega Umbilicus”.

3. Contained in the Mega Umbilicus is a BRAIDED Double Helix Cord, one containing the 4-Dimensional Physical Multiverses, and also containing its antipodal pair containing the 6-Trans-Dimensional Hyperphysical Multiverses.

4. Our “Local Universe” is merely ONE of countless universes (“multiverses”) that are each self-contained uni-disks held within an expanding membrane, being much like lozenges stacked back to back (like in a packaged roll of breath mints), and each multiverse travels and progresses along the inside of its BRAIDED Helix Cord while each expands, maturing from infant universe to mature universe as the Mega Umbilicus also progresses in its FLAT SPIRAL outwardly.

5. This sector of the TUS can be termed the “Endoverse” (Inner Universe). It ultimately has a “Termination Ring,” being a line of dichotomy between the Endoverse and a vast “Great Void” of zero point energy that can be termed the “Umbra Belt”. It is here where the multiverses reach the end of their journey as they eventually become cold inert and dead system and their remnant refuse is deposited into the Umbra Belt.

6. Beyond the Umbra Belt is another “Dichotomy Ring” which beyond that is the 17+ Trans-Dimensional “Supra-Exoverse” where God is located, “…My Father’s House (where there) are many mansions (Trans-Dimensions).” This is the TRUE location of the Great White Throne, God and Christ.

Hence:

1) The FIRST HEAVEN = 4-Dimensional Physical Multiverses Helix Cord (THE REALM OF NATURE [where God is not])

2) The SECOND HEAVEN = 6-Trans-Dimensional Hyperphysical Multiverse Helix Antecord (THE REALM OF THE DEMONIC NATURE, commonly called the "LOWER HEAVEN" or "OUTER CIRCLE" [where God is not])

(TOGETHER these are located in the Endoverse [Inner Universe])

3) The THIRD HEAVEN = 17+ Trans-Dimensional Supra-Exoverse (THE REALM OF SUPER NATURE [where God Is])

TOGETHER ALL THESE ELEMENTS comprise the TUS (Trans-Universal Superstructure)




-7

I would suggest Dennis Mann find more reliable sources of information than Robert Gentry. THis is the same gentlemen whose contentions concerning polonium halos have been found to be totally unfounded and without merit.

I did watch the entire 21 minute film. When you get down to the nub of the argument, Gentry bases his claim on selective quote mining of a couple of physicists, misinterprets what they said and takes it out of context, and then simply dismisses the expansion of the universe without any actual empirical evidence. Gentry would have us believe that because one physicist talks about how his students might find the idea of 'universe expansion' non-sensical that this must mean the scientists are all in a conspiracy to dupe their students.

Baloney.

There are a lot of things that are 'non-sensical' in science based on a superfical consideration, including gravity. Newton himself commented on the absurdity of the notion that heavenly bodies could exert huge forces on each other instantaneously and with no visible or detectable means of exertion.

Quantum physics is hugely counter-intuitive, and even the experts often comment how they really don't understand it. On the other hand, they are perfectly capable of verifying that quantum mechanics works down to the Nth decimal place. Certainly students of quantum mechanics nearly unanymously find it non-sensical and difficult to understand.

Gentry's argument is essentially that "since a novice might be confused and find universe expansion non-sensical and their teachers are willing to acknowledge they will probably find it as such therefore we must conclude that universe expansion is a deliberate lie."

Following Gentry's logic, scientific education of all sorts would cease to exist and we would have to go back to the dark ages, because obviously they knew better than we do.



As with his polonium halos work, Gentry simply gets some of his facts wrong. At one point, Gentry claims that if the universe is expanding and the distance between galaxies is getting larger, it must also be that the galaxies themselves are getting larger and even objects should be expanding. Again, Gentry's extremely superfical approach to the situation and tendency not to consider all the evidence has led him astray.

For example, http://www4.ncsu.edu/unity/lockers/users/f...pers/cosmo.html has a few pages of discussion on the expanding universe, including the following relevant quote.



Here is another nice discussion with pictures.
http://abyss.uoregon.edu/~js/ast123/lectures/lec14.html




I also found this discussion from another forum where the non-experts even seem capable of explaining why galaxies and atoms do not expand along with 'the universe as a whole on the average."

http://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?t=78431



Now, Gentry may have one thing partially right. That is that the 'cosmological principle' that the universe looks the same in the large from wherever one observes it is an assumption made by scientists that cannot really be said to be 'mathematically proven'. On the other hand, there is empirical evidence for this principle as well as other arguments for its reasonableness.



Gentry's cavalier dismissal of this principle is again, quite without merit. He simply does not want to believe it, which is hardly adequate rationale for ignoring such a well-supported principle.

This principle is very simple.

However, Dennis Mann is using a straw man fallacy here.

This thread title says "the evolutionists have lied to us."

What does evolution got to do with Earth being in the center of the universe?

I'll repeat, the only way to know if we really are at the center of the universe, is if we know the entire length and width of the universe.

Then we can try to pinpoint the center.

However, this is assuming the universe can really be a modeled like that.

Neal ...

This excerpt is so for you . . . my friend . . . ( I hope you know, I like you very much,
are you thinking why ? )

I am not for sure, just a good feeling . . . ( smile )




Raisin bread . . . and the universe

http://www.windows.ucar.edu/tour/link=/the...ml&edu=high

In the 1920's the famous American astronomer Edwin Hubble made a startling discovery that forever changed our view of the Universe. He found that, no matter which direction he looked into space, distant galaxies appeared to be moving away from us. The farther away the galaxy is from our galaxy the faster its recession speed. What could be causing this curious effect? Does our galaxy smell bad? Not at all. In fact, Hubble was observing the expansion of the Universe.
An expanding universe was actually predicted by Albert Einstein's theory of general relativity. But Einstein believed that the Universe should be static because that was more perfect, and many people agreed. But when Hubble made his discovery they were all forced to accept the reality that we live in an expanding universe.

What does it mean that the Universe is expanding? Well, a simple way to think of it is to imagine baking a loaf of raisin bread. As the bread rises it also expands. All of the raisins move farther apart from one another. Every single raisin would see all of the others moving away from it. So to complete the analogy, all of the galaxies in the universe are like the raisins in the bread.

But of course the analogy is not quite complete. Raisin bread has only 3 dimensions: height, width, and depth. However, the Universe has 4 dimensions: height, width, depth, and time. They are bound together in what is known as spacetime. The universe is not only expanding in space but also in time. However, it is really difficult to visualize 4-dimensional raisin bread, so don't try, it'll just hurt your brain.

Look Neal,

The image has 8 arrows, with the spirals representing galaxies.

You know, the point (DOT) is becoming clearer ( smile )


This image represents an expanding Universe. The arrows show that the movement is outward from the center. The spirals represent galaxies.
STsci

http://www.windows.ucar.edu/tour/link=/the...ml&edu=high

the evolutionists are angry and embarassed.............they've been caught in huge lies

Shekel has an article about evolution, Darwin, Australia, and a hurricane (Cyclone) at www.bible-codes.org

Lord Jesus Christ, please save the evolutionists from their sins.

See, he's twisting the argument by saying evolutionists argue this.

What does evolution got to do with the Earth being in the center of the universe or not?

Come on > Neal . . . "say it" . . . "say it" -----------

The raisin bread versus universe thingie is to good !


I bet you would have gloated to find that one . . . ( smile )

What sins???

Accepting evolution is a fact is not a sin.

in this above video,,,,,,,,,,,Dr. Robert V. Gentry quotes from HAWKINGS' book, which admits the essential foundations of the Big Bang are assumptions (no evidence whatsoever)

in fact, the evidence proves that the Big Bang could not have happened,
and
the earth is in the center of the universe,
and
the evolutionist scientists rejected the evidence and truth, because they couldn't accept the truth, that earth is the center of the universe

the evolutionists claim that all observers everywhere in the universe see the galaxies accererating away from each observer.
but, that would be impossible...........
the galaxies accelerating AWAY from earth, would be accelerating AWAY from other observers (TOWARDS earth)........that's impossible, and the evolutionists know it

also, their claims contradict the LAW OF CONSERVATION OF ENERGY

BELIEVING IN EVOLUTION IS A GREAT SIN,,,,,,,,,,it contradicts the Creation account

the 4th Commandment mentions that the 7-day week is patterned after the 7-day creation week

jesus spoke of Creation and adam/eve as historical event/people

Evolution is the "Evolution of Satan" a demonic agenda that presents to Mankind his "evolution" into "godhood" where supposedly Mankind will "evolve" via a "quantum leap" into a preternatural state of "Homo noeticus" (man of the mind), a New Age term; but it is nothing more than the Serpent's Lie offered up to Eve back in the Primordial Garden, "You shall be as gods... and you surely shall not die." There is no difference, and it is clear to those who are spiritually discerning in the Spirit of God that Evolution is authored and perpetuated by Satan. Hence, when Satan comes in his beautiful form as the Angel of Light portraying the False Messiah Jesus, Satan will offer the forbidden fruit, the Lie, "Take my Mark and you will quantum leap and EVOLVE into godhood and become Immortals, never to die." This will be the crowning achievement of Satan's "Evolution", and ultimately this is what Evolution will serve to precipitate. It is a Lie, for it will be an impregnation of Seven Fallen Seraphim (demons) into the human host, giving the "appearance" that the human host has EVOLVED into a "Preterhuman", but their power will not be their own; it will be the power of the impregnated demons being demonstrated. This is the coming "Satanic Incarnation", and this is what Evolution will ultimately produce for those who endorse and believe in it.

-7

wow!..........interesting!..........i hadn't thought of anything like that!...........the world will Love it!

Saints, be careful!

Great to know you'll completely repeat what you said ignoring what Romans 14 said.


So you think that because when the Jews adopted the 7-day calendar when they 1st wrote Genesis up to the part where the world was created in 6 days, that it proves evolution false?

So you think that because when Cyrus the Great gave Jews back their land (Israel) from Nebuchadnezzar, so they rewrote Genesis adding the Adam and Eve story, symbolizing Adam and Eve as the world's 1st Jews and the Garden of Eden, proves that evolution is false?

The truth is, I assume you have no idea how old the Earth is because I assume you aren't older than the Earth.

The truth is, I was a very young boy in 1993, where I learned to read the calendar, so I know for a fact that the Earth has been around since at least 1993. I would have no idea whether the Earth is 6,000 years old or 4.55 billion years old. But I know the Earth has been around in 1993.

My Mom says I was born in 1988, and so does my birth certificate, but that's not absolute proof, I'll never know for sure. I didn't know how to read a calendar in 1988.

If the Bible said I was born in 1988, that's still not reason for me to be 100% sure I was born in 1988.

Creation and Evolution: The Bible Explanation

In this third and final installment, we examine the findings of modern science in the light of God's Word.

by Mario Seiglie

In the first two installments of this series, we examined the weaknesses of the theory of evolution as an explanation for the bewildering complexity of the forms of life we see around us. Now we turn to the Bible itself to see what the Creator God says about His creation.

One important principle to keep in mind is that God does not usually explain all there is to know about a subject in one place in the Bible. His Word is not organized so we can turn to one passage and read all of God's revelation about a particular truth.

God's truths are not revealed all at once. Although He often provides a broad outline of a truth early in the Scriptures, we find that He later fills in many of the details elsewhere in the Bible. The Bible itself speaks of this principle when it talks of "God, who at various times and in various ways spoke in times past to the fathers by the prophets, has in these last days spoken to us by his Son . . ." (Hebrews 1:1-2).

The Nature of Revelation

The Hebrew prophets did not always understand the significance of the prophecies they recorded under God's inspiration (Daniel 12:8-9). Their knowledge of the particular truth they received was incomplete.
"Of this salvation," writes the apostle Peter, ìthe prophets have inquired and searched carefully, who prophesied of the grace that would come to you, searching what, or what manner of time, the Spirit of Christ (which) was in them was indicating when (it) testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ and the glories that would follow. To them it was revealed that, not to themselves, but to us they were ministering the things which now have been reported to you through those who have preached the gospel to you by the Holy Spirit sent from heaven--things which angels desire to look into" (1Peter 1:10-12).
The prophets obviously had partial information about eternal truths revealed to them. This is also the case with the account of creation in Genesis 1. God would reveal additional details later. Many Bible readers, however, mistakenly assume everything the Bible has to say about creation is explained there. Yet the Bible adds details later that make clarify the Genesis 1 account.

Details About the Creation

Consider, for example, that Genesis 1:1 says, "In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth." It might seem as if this verse describes the beginning of everything, but God later reveals details of events and conditions that took place earlier.

The apostle John, writing under God's inspiration, takes us back to a time before events described in Genesis 1. "In the beginning," he states, ìwas the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God. All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made" (John 1:1-3, emphasis added throughout).
Here the Bible reveals that, before the creation of the heavens and the earth described in Genesis 1, the Word was with God and God made everything through the Word. None of this is revealed in the Genesis account, yet these details help us understand who God was in the beginning and at the time of the earth's creation. We see that John gives us more information that helps us understand what happened "in the beginning" in Genesis 1.

Similarly, Genesis 1:2 describes the earth as being "without form, and void." This sketchy description offers no explanation as to why the earth was in this condition. However, God reveals more details in other parts of His Word. We have to compile and consider all pertinent scriptures on a subject to gain a complete understanding.

For example, in another passage God explains that angels were present at the creation of the earth. The book of Genesis doesn't mention this, but it is an important truth. We find this detail recorded in the book of Job, where God asks Job, "Where were you when I laid the foundations of the earth? . . . Who laid its cornerstone, when the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted with joy? (Job 38:4,6-7). The "morning stars" and ìsons of Godî--the angels--exulted as they saw the earth miraculously come into being from nothing.

The Angelic Revolt

A key to understanding why the earth was "without form and void" involves what happened to some of these angels. Again, nothing of this angelic story is described in Genesis. But later in His Word, God reveals there was a great angel, Lucifer, who rebelled against Him. "How you are fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! How you are cut down to the ground, you who weakened the nations! For you have said in your heart: 'I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God . . . I will ascend above the heights of the clouds, I will be like the Most High' " (Isaiah 14:12-14).
Here God explains that this Lucifer had a throne, representing a position of leadership and authority. He rose from somewhere below to try to overthrow God, but was cast down again "to the ground."
Where was this place where Lucifer had his throne? Jesus Christ, whom we saw earlier was the "Word" alongside God at the creation, reveals more details. ìI saw Satan fall like lightning from heaven," He said (Luke 10:18). Lucifer, who became Satan, was cast down from heaven--to the earth!

The Bible explains that Satan retains his authority over this planet. Notice what Satan told Christ: "Then the devil, taking Him up on a high mountain, showed Him all the kingdoms of the world. And the devil said to Him, 'All this authority I will give You, and their glory; for this has been delivered to me, and I give it to whomever I wish' " (Luke 4:5-6).

Christ resisted this temptation but did not dispute the assertion of Satan's present authority. The Bible shows in many places that Satan has authority over the earth. He is even called "the god of this age" in 2Corinthians 4:4.

It is no accident that in Genesis 3, shortly after God created Adam and Eve, that Satan appeared on the scene. The earth was--and still is--his domain. He had been cast down to earth before man's creation took place. As noted in the account of the temptation of Christ, Satan had received authority over the earth. He then rebelled against God in a battle in which he was cast down to the earth, as Christ recounted.
The earth is Satan's realm. The book of Job records God asking Satan, "From where do you come?" Satan's reply was, "From going to and fro on the earth and from walking back and forth on it" (Job 1:7).

How Earth Became Waste and Empty

In Genesis we do not see details of the awe-inspiring initial creation, the creation long before Adam and Eve about which angels sang for joy. We do not read how that creation came to be in chaos--"without form and void."

The text, though, does offer clues. Notice how the New International Version has a marginal notation regarding the translation of Genesis 1:2: "Now the earth was (or possibly became) formless and empty . . ."
Does God reveal elsewhere in his Word how the earth came to be in this disorderly state, "formless and empty"? He gives us some telling hints in the book of Isaiah. "For thus says the Lord, who created the heavens, who is God, who formed the earth and made it, who did not create it in vain, who formed it to be inhabited" (Isaiah 45:18).

The term in vain here is the same word translated "without form" in Genesis 1:2. Yet Isaiah records God as saying He did not originally create the earth in this condition. Other scriptures, such as Isaiah 34:11 and Jeremiah 4:23, describe similar devastation on the earth using the same words translated "without form, and void" in Genesis 1:2. There is no doubt that these words describe the earth as being an empty, void wasteland.

The Genesis account simply does not provide all the details. But the Bible as a whole fills in other parts of the story. The missing pieces are given in other scriptures, which tell us of Satan's rebellion against God. They describe his attempt to overthrow God, and, as a result of a great supernatural battle, the fact that he was cast down again.

We see what appears to be a parallel situation in Revelation 12:7-9, which describes an attempt by Satan to overthrow God shortly before Christ's return. "And war broke out in heaven: Michael and his angels fought with the dragon; and the dragon and his angels fought, but they did not prevail, nor was a place found for them in heaven any longer. So the great dragon was cast out, that serpent of old, called the Devil and Satan, who deceives the whole world; he was cast to the earth, and his angels were cast out with him."

Yet God has allowed Satan to retain authority over this present world. Satan even offered Christ the opportunity to share rulership over the earth under him.
You can see that, when we examine all the Scriptures, we find a great deal more information illuminating and explaining the Genesis account.

Earth Renewed and Restored

Consider another section of Scripture in which God inspired David to understand more about His Creation. "O Lord, how manifold are Your works! In wisdom You have made them all. The earth is full of Your possessions . . . You send forth Your Spirit, they are created; and You renew the face of the earth" (Psalm 104:24,30).

The surface of the earth needed a renewal when God created the present life forms we see around us. So what does the fossil record depict? It shows a series of fossilized life forms an average of a mile deep in the earth's crust. Man as we know him, made in God's image with enormous creative and spiritual abilities, has a recorded history of only a little more than 5,000 years.

This is a tiny span of time compared with the age of the earth and stars around us, as evidenced by radioactivity and other scientific findings. Man, in an incredibly short time, built the pyramids--which to this day defy imitation. Man has traveled to the moon and sent spacecraft to explore our solar system and beyond. Such achievements show the enormous difference in the earth before and after Adam.

How long did the angels exist before man was created? The Bible doesn't reveal the answer. How long did it take Lucifer to persuade as many as a third of the angels to rebel with him? (Revelation 12:4).

Remember, angels are immortal beings for whom aging is of no consequence (Luke 20:36). Whatever length of time this might be, perhaps millions of years, the angels were created and lived before the creation of Adam and Eve and the days of the renewal of the earth described in Genesis.

Why did God create angels? "Are they not all ministering spirits sent forth to minister for those who will inherit salvation?" (Hebrews 1:14). God "has not put the world to come, of which we speak, in subjection to the angels" (Hebrews 2:5). God created angels to serve mankind once it inherits the world to come. God is working out His plan of salvation on earth. The creation waits for the glorious moment when man inherits what God the Father has planned from the start.

"For I consider," writes the apostle Paul, ìthat the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us. For the earnest expectation of the creation eagerly waits for the revealing of the sons of God. For the creation was subjected to futility (waste), not willingly, but because of Him who subjected it in hope; because the creation itself also will be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the sons of God" (Romans 8:18-21). (For more details, be sure to request your free booklets What Is Your Destiny? and The Gospel of the Kingdom from the address nearest you listed on page 2.)

The Bible Explanation

Can the Bible explain the fossil record, an ancient earth and divine creation at the same time? Yes, it can. We don't know all the details of what happened before man's time. But Christ has assured us that when He returns "there is nothing hidden which will not be revealed, nor has anything been kept secret but that it should come to light" (Mark 4:22).

Instead of wandering through the confused, chaotic maze of the theory of evolution like so many, we should look to God's Word for assurance. It is there--directly from our Creator--that we find the truth of man's origin.

Perhaps the following quote from George Sim Johnston best sums up that truth: "The book of Genesis has held up well under the scrutiny of modern geology and archaeology. Twentieth-century physics, moreover, describes the beginning of the universe in virtually the same cosmological terms as Genesis. Space, time and matter came out of nothing in a single burst of light entirely hospitable to carbon-based life.

"A growing number of chemists and biologists agree that life had its origin from clay templates (see Genesis 2:7), while genetic research asserts that we are all descended from one woman. I would say all this is a curious development for Darwinists" (Reader's Digest, May 1991, p. 31).

But these things aren't a "strange discovery" to those who faithfully believe, as Christ did, in "every word that proceeds from the mouth of God" (Matthew 4:4). They know that such truths have been recorded for mankind in the Bible for thousands of years.

It is to the Bible that we should turn for our moral standards, to discover our one true source of salvation and, perhaps most of all, for our belief in the invisible Creator God. Why, then, should we doubt the real origin of the species mentioned in the creation epic, that rock-solid book of beginnings, Genesis?

The Creation-science Movement

One aspect of the creation-evolution debate involves numerous evangelical Christians who oppose the theory of evolution. Their position is called creation science. Most do not believe in an ancient earth. In general terms, they believe the entire geologic column with its millions of fossils is the result of catastrophism, largely the result of the biblical flood of Noah.

In 1981 the basic tenets of creation science were included in the Arkansas "Act 590 of 1981": (a) 'Creation-science' means the scientific evidences for creation and inferences from those scientific evidences . . . It includes: (1) Sudden creation of the universe, energy, and life from nothing; (2) The insufficiency of mutation and natural selection in bringing about development of all living kinds from a single organism; (3) Changes only within fixed limits of originally created kinds of plants and animals; (4) Separate ancestry for man and apes; (5) Explanation of the earth's geology by catastrophism, including the occurrence of a worldwide flood; and (6) A relatively recent inception of the earth and living kinds.

SIDEBAR: Genesis 1: History or Myth?

To excuse the account of creation in Genesis 1, some attempt to explain it away as poetry rather than literal history. They call it "the hymn to creation," although this explanation is not supported in Scripture.
Genesis 1 was not written in poetic form. Conservative scholars have pointed out all of Genesis, from chapters 1 through 50, is history written in the same narrative form.

In his Introduction to the Old Testament, Edward Young states about the first chapter of Genesis: "We are not to regard the chapter as the reworking by the Priestly School of a myth that was common to ancient tradition. Rather, the chapter is sober history. Although Genesis does not purport to be a textbook of science, nevertheless, when it touches upon scientific subjects, it is accurate" (1964, p. 49, emphasis added).
When poetry is used in the Bible, it is clear that it is poetry. For instance, in Genesis 4:23-24, Lamech's saying is in poetic form and is set off as such in most Bible versions--yet Genesis 1 is not. The books of Job and the Psalms are written in poetic style and are noted as such. However, Genesis 1 is written in a narrative style, which continues throughout the book. It describes the creation in the same style as the account of Abraham in chapter 12.

If we arbitrarily attribute an allegorical, nonliteral style to Genesis 1--when it is not written in this form--then what is to stop anyone from discounting other portions of Genesis or the Bible in the same way? Ultimately anything can be dismissed as allegory, as was done by some of the misguided early church fathers and in more recent years by liberal critics of the Bible.
Both grammar and style show that Genesis 1 was not written as poetry. Genesis 1 should be taken at face value as the rest of the Scriptures.




-7

I truly agree with you, Dennis, that belief and endorsement of Evolution is collaboration with the Demonic Nature, and thus it is a SIN.

It boggles the mind that people who "think" they are Christian are "unknowing" PAWNS OF SATAN as they espouse Satan's Doctrine, Evolution. Evolution and the Bible are no more compatible than Jesus and Satan. So-called "Christians" who engage in this propagation of Evil serve and eat at the table of two masters. These are the ones Christ will VOMIT out of His Mouth into the "Outer Darkness" as the Prophet Amos stated and for them it will be darkness and not Light.

I know there is surface meaning to scripture, and a deeper reality beneath the surface, and even a deeper revelation of Truth within it recesses. I think that besides the revelation of the RCC as the Harlot on SEVEN Hills in Revelation 17, when I read those scriptures where St. John reacts with great surprise and "marvels" at a PEOPLE who operate with ONE MIND (which the Angel scolds him for his "marveling"), I see those possessed with the coming Satanic Incarnation, an ABOMINATION WITHIN THEIR TEMPLES (BODIES), who will work in wonders and miracles with ONE MIND, impregnated by SEVEN SIX-WINGED FALLEN SERAPHIM... remember in antiquity the Pagans built there alters and temples on HILLS to be occupied by DEMONS; thus, the SEVEN HILLS in Revelation 17 are also SEVEN DEMONS that will impregnate each human host desiring to EVOLVE into Home noeticus, the "post-human" TRANSHUMANS.

This is why God has a COUNTER-PLAN to rise up the "Sons of God" (the 144,000 Overcomers in Christ), or the "Man-Childs" who will be the FIRST BARLEY/FLAX HARVEST receiving their "Transfiguration" and "Resurrection" into the Might Army of God on Earth, being impregnated NOT by demons but by Christ, Himself. These will be the Five Wise and Vigilant Virgins, being the "Great Warrior Bride of Christ". And, they will go to battle against Satan's Resurrection of Evil, the Transhumans (Homo noeticus).

-7

Honestly, I don't understand what earths place in the universe has to do with Evolution. We don't even know exactly how large the universe is. Let us get our priorities straight, people.



Hahahaha, oh WOW. Is anything that contradicts the bible a great sin to believe in?
In almost all religions with a God it is a sin not to believe. Who knows, you could be sinning in a thousand different religions right now.


The bible contradicts itself plenty of times. Same with all religions. There is also the historical inaccuracies, etc.

Neal :

You are just amazing me, more and more . . .

Good news !

If your mom never told you, you were born in 1988, it does not matter to
God(IHVH), who is Sovereign :



"The Lord called me before my birth. From within the womb he called me by my name...He said to me, `You are my servant'..." (Isaiah 49:1,3 TLB); "For you created my inmost being; you knit me together in my mother's womb" (Psalm 139:13).


The calendar system of God (IHVH) is the one that counts correctly, not the non-perfect
timetables of civilization guess work.

He (IHVH) knows the correct time of your birth, Neal.



This is back to the principle : POINT (DOT)



QUOTE (crownsevenalphabet @ Jul 16 2008, 02:02 PM)
QUOTE (Neal @ Jul 16 2008, 01:45 PM)
QUOTE (crownsevenalphabet @ Jul 16 2008, 01:16 PM)
The Jesus point (DOT) is suspended above the level point center of the universe.

(Neal, quote)
When the Jesus dot (whatever that is) is above the center point of the universe, he is not at the center of the universe if he is above it.


QUOTE (crownsevenalphabet)
Just like He (Jesus) was suspended as He (Jesus) walked on water. So you do not
understand the walking Jesus from point (DOT) A to point B.


(Neal, quote)
If Jesus floats above the center point of the universe, he is above the center of the universe.


QUOTE (crownsevenalphabet)
The logic of your lack of belief is as infidel, not inescapable in faith matters.

(Neal, quote)
No you make perfect sense. Any object including Jesus or not above the center point of the universe is above the center of the universe, wheter it's a floating or walking Jesus.

Good morning, Gravelz :

[Gravelz, quote]
Honestly, I don't understand what earths place in the universe has to do with Evolution. We don't even know exactly how large the universe is. Let us get our priorities straight, people.


Well, the school of thought in the study of universe, galaxies . . . seem to teach a science
formula, to answer the question . . . " How large is the universe " ?

This is a UCAR, education site. Non religious.

Add it to your program. At least, by me joining and receiving the newsletters, I can see
how my Christian ideals, are linking science.

Maybe, you can join and upgrade your atheist position, about the universe and its
principles of science also. (smile)


Because this statement you made, is not correct :

~Honestly, I don't understand what earths place in the universe has to do with Evolution~

Go re-thunk . . .




Blessings in our differences, to explore facts, faith and debate issues !



This image represents an expanding Universe. The arrows show that the movement is outward from the center. The spirals represent galaxies.
STsci

http://www.windows.ucar.edu/tour/link=/the...ml&edu=high



Raisin bread . . . and the universe

http://www.windows.ucar.edu/tour/link=/the...ml&edu=high

In the 1920's the famous American astronomer Edwin Hubble made a startling discovery that forever changed our view of the Universe. He found that, no matter which direction he looked into space, distant galaxies appeared to be moving away from us. The farther away the galaxy is from our galaxy the faster its recession speed. What could be causing this curious effect? Does our galaxy smell bad? Not at all. In fact, Hubble was observing the expansion of the Universe.
An expanding universe was actually predicted by Albert Einstein's theory of general relativity. But Einstein believed that the Universe should be static because that was more perfect, and many people agreed. But when Hubble made his discovery they were all forced to accept the reality that we live in an expanding universe.

What does it mean that the Universe is expanding? Well, a simple way to think of it is to imagine baking a loaf of raisin bread. As the bread rises it also expands. All of the raisins move farther apart from one another. Every single raisin would see all of the others moving away from it. So to complete the analogy, all of the galaxies in the universe are like the raisins in the bread.

But of course the analogy is not quite complete. Raisin bread has only 3 dimensions: height, width, and depth. However, the Universe has 4 dimensions: height, width, depth, and time. They are bound together in what is known as spacetime. The universe is not only expanding in space but also in time. However, it is really difficult to visualize 4-dimensional raisin bread, so don't try, it'll just hurt your brain.

the bible doesn't contradict itself

the GOD OF ISRAEL is perfect in truth, love, wisdom, humility, gentleness, helpfulness,

but the evolutionists contradict themselves.

evolution-preaching is a sin

1.God is satisfied with his works Gen 1:31.
God is dissatisfied with his works. Gen 6:6.

2.God dwells in chosen temples. 2 Chron 7:12,16.
God dwells not in temples. Acts 7:48.

3.God dwells in light. Tim 6:16.
God dwells in darkness. 1 Kings 8:12/ Ps 18:11/ Ps 97:2.

4.God is seen and heard.
Ex 33:23/ Ex 33:11/ Gen 3:9,10/ Gen 32:30/ Is 6:1/Ex 24:9-11.
God is invisible and cannot be heard.
John 1:18/ John 5:37/ Ex 33:20/ 1 Tim 6:16.

5.God is tired and rests. Ex 31:17.
God is never tired and never rests. Is 40:28.

6.God is everywhere present, sees and knows all things.
Prov 15:3/ Ps 139:7-10/ Job 34:22,21.
God is not everywhere present, neither sees nor knows all things.
Gen 11:5/ Gen 18:20,21/ Gen 3:8.

7.God knows the hearts of men.
Acts 1:24/ Ps 139:2,3.
God tries men to find out what is in their heart.
Deut 13:3/ Deut 8:2/ Gen 22:12.

8.God is all powerful. Jer 32:27/ Matt 19:26.
God is not all powerful. Judg 1:19.

9.God is unchangeable.
James 1:17/ Mal 3:6/ Ezek 24:14/ Num 23:19.
God is changeable.
Gen 6:6/ Jonah 3:10/ 1 Sam 2:30,31/ 2 Kings 20:1,4,5,6/ Ex 33:1,3,17,14.

10.God is just and impartial.
Ps 92:15/ Gen 18:25/ Deut 32:4/ Rom 2:11/ Ezek 18:25.
God is unjust and partial.
Gen 9:25/ Ex 20:5/ Rom 9:11-13/ Matt 13:12.

11.God is the author of evil.
Lam 3:38/ Jer 18:11/ Is 45:7/ Amos 3:6/ Ezek 20:25.
God is not the author of evil.
1 Cor 14:33/ Deut 32:4/ James 1:13.

12.God gives freely to those who ask.
James 1:5/ Luke 11:10.
God withholds his blessings and prevents men from receiving them.
John 12:40/ Josh 11:20/ Is 63:17.

13.God is to be found by those who seek him.
Matt 7:8/ Prov 8:17.
God is not to be found by those who seek him.
Prov 1:28.

14.God is warlike. Ex 15:3/ Is 51:15.
God is peaceful. Rom 15:33/ 1 Cor 14:33.

15.God is cruel, unmerciful, destructive, and ferocious.
Jer 13:14/ Deut 7:16/ 1 Sam 15:2,3/ 1 Sam 6:19.
God is kind, merciful, and good.
James 5:11/ Lam 3:33/ 1 Chron 16:34/ Ezek 18:32/ Ps 145:9/ 1 Tim 2:4/ 1 John 4:16/ Ps 25:8.

16.God's anger is fierce and endures long.
Num 32:13/ Num 25:4/ Jer 17:4.
God's anger is slow and endures but for a minute.
Ps 103:8/ Ps 30:5.

17.God commands, approves of, and delights in burnt offerings, sacrifices, and holy days.
Ex 29:36/ Lev 23:27/ Ex 29:18/ Lev 1:9.
God disapproves of and has no pleasure in burnt offerings, sacrifices, and holy days.
Jer 7:22/ Jer 6:20/ Ps 50:13,4/ Is 1:13,11,12.

18.God accepts human sacrifices.
2 Sam 21:8,9,14/ Gen 22:2/ Judg 11:30-32,34,38,39.
God forbids human sacrifice.
Deut 12:30,31.

19.God tempts men.
Gen 22:1/ 2 Sam 24:1/ Jer 20:7/ Matt 6:13.
God tempts no man.
James 1:13.

20.God cannot lie.
Heb 6:18.
God lies by proxy; he sends forth lying spirits to deceive.
2 Thes 2:11/ 1 Kings 22:23/ Ezek 14:9.

21.Because of man's wickedness God destroys him.
Gen 6:5,7.
Because of man's wickedness God will not destroy him.
Gen 8:21.

22.God's attributes are revealed in his works.
Rom 1:20.
God's attributes cannot be discovered.
Job 11:7/ Is 40:28.

23.There is but 1 God
Deut 6:4.
There is a plurality of gods.
Gen 1:26/ Gen 3:22/ Gen 18:1-3/ 1 John 5:7.

http://woauthority.blogspot.com/2007/10/jn...ealized-in.html

Jüngel: God's Being is Realized in Contradiction

"God does not contradict himself... Even in the greatest of all imaginable contradictions, even in the contradiction of eternal life and earthly death [in the crucifixion], God corresponds to himself. The being of God is capable of this contradiction. Indeed, God's being is realized in this contradiction without being destroyed by it. God endures it. And this endurance of the contradiction of life and death is God himself, it is the depth of God's glory."

Neal :

Take every scripture, place them on the pillars below, the parallel is clear :

This is why Adam and Eve are the right and left of all archetypal thinking. The very
expression of God (IHVH) in the established parallel's of the pillar principles.


Ten Commandments Are Built Upon The `pillar`: + 2 Criminals Crucified With Christ,, who was the center `pillar` + Biblical characters of the pillar
http://www.christian-forum.net/index.php?s...c=20637&hl=


RIGHT:

The symbolic meaning of the criminal on right, is the Adam ( masculine):
Light, Oral Law, Love, Practice, intuitive wisdom, mercy
RIGHT is associated with Abraham ( right pillar ) + Virgin Mary



CENTER/MIDDLE:
CHRIST --- Messiah ------ crucified in the middle --------- Moses, given the 10 commandments ---------( Jacob's pillar, of Bethal ) ----- The `Word` made Flesh, Jesus Christ the Son of God (IHVH)



LEFT:

The symbolic meaning of the criminal on left, is the Eve ( feminine):
Dark, Written Law, Discipline, Theory, rational intellect, judgement
LEFT is associated with Boaz ( left pillar ) + Isaac + Mary Magdalene

Jesus said "I AM the Truth".

God does not contradict Himself.

Yes, but men often have trouble fulling understanding God and mistake their own opinions for the truth, even when they base their opinions on the Bible.

This in no way makes accepting that evolution is a fact a sin. One is not breaking the 4th commandment by accepting evolution.

I can only conclude that dennis mann has a very different view of what sin is than many Christians. This is certainly fine as long as he only applies his definition of sin to himself. As Paul writes in Romans chapter 14:



Christianity is not a matter of following particular rules, but rather a relationship that each believer has with the Lord. If dennis mann is convinced that he must believe in a literal six day creation to avoid sin, then I suppose it is good for him to maintain that view. If I on the other hand am convinced in my own mind that evolution is true, I risk no peril before the Lord.

So, I reject dennis mann's assertion that accepting the fact of evolution is a sin for me, and I have ample Biblical grounds for this position. As one more example, consider the following from Acts Chapter 15, where James the brother of Jesus and the leader of the church in Jerusalem at that time makes a judgment on what is to be expected of Gentile believers.



I certainly don't see any requirement here to interpret the Bible a particular way, or even to follow the fourth commandment. Now, I'm not saying we should all ignore the fourth commandment, but I am saying that what we do in regards to OT law is a matter of conscience between each of us and the Lord. It is not for dennis mann to decide what is sinful for everyone else. In particular, on a matter as tangential to the faith as evolution, it is really rather silly to tell other people that they are sinning simply for accepting the overwhelming evidence we have that biological evolution has occurred. I think we can infer from Jesus' own words in John chapter six that He does not care one whit what we think about biology.









Seven Thunders characterization is so far removed from the actual scientific definition of evolution that this argument really has no bearing on anyone who accepts the science of evolution. Evolution, as a scientific theory, is nothing more than a description of how life has changed on earth over time and an explanation of why that change has occurred. That's it.

It is based on millions of observations from the fossil record, molecular biology, biogeography, etc.

Similarly, the theory of gravity is nothing more than a description including mathematical equations that describes how massive bodies interact with each other.

Evolution says absolutely nothing, nada, zip, zilch, nichts about man evolving into "godhood" or never dieing or seraphim or demons or "satanic incarnation." Such assertions are nothing more than yet another in a long line of attempts to smear and defame evolution by piling on all sorts of mischaracterizations onto it so that people can be persuaded, coerced, or intimidated into doubting it by distracting them from the actual science and painting evolution as evil. This unfortunately has been going on for so long that many have been deceived into thinking these fallacious and false caricatures of evolution actually have something to do with the scientific theory.

They don't.


Declaring evolution to be satanic, evil, or sinful makes as much sense as saying believing in a sun-centered solar system is satanic, evil, or sinful. There is every bit as much Biblical support for holding that the earth is fixed, flat, and immovable as there is for insisting the world must have been created in six literal days. If we based our picture of the universe on the Bible, we would believe in a fixed, flat earth, supported by pillars over the waters of the deep, with the firmament or dome of the sky overhead, just as the ancient Hebrews believed.

Psalms 136:6 . . .who spread out the earth on the waters, . . .

Psalms 93: 1, 2, . . . He has established the world; it shall never be moved; your throne is established from of old; you are everlasting.

(one of several verses cited by Martin Luther and others to 'prove' that the earth could not be revolving on its axis or orbiting the sun)

Psalms 75:3 When the earth totters, with all its inhabitants, it is I who keep its pillars steady.

Psalms 74:17 You have fixed all the bounds of the earth . . .

(one of many verses alluding to 'the ends of the earth'. Such ends do not exist on a spherical earth)

Genesis 1:6-8 And God said, "Let there be a dome in the midst of the waters, and let it separate the waters from the waters." So God made the dome and separated the waters that were under the dome from the waters that were above the dome. And it was so. God called the dome Sky.


Those of us who accept evolution are simply interpreting our Bibles in light of the scientific evidence we have, just as we all have already re-interpreted these and other passages in light of the evidence we have for a sun-centered solar system and a vast universe with no discernible edge.

evolution contradicts the bible

the bible is true.

neal can't predict the future the way the bible does.

I predict it will rain at your place sometime.

Don't believe me? Wait a few thousand years. The rain will surely come.

It may even come sooner.

no-one can predict the furture like God can...........this is one of the Great Marks of His Deity.

Isa 46:9 Remember the former things of old: for I am God, and there is none else; I am God, and there is none like me,
Isa 46:10 Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure:


no other god or person can predict the future the way that the bible does.

this is the great proof of the bible............God says so..........Isaiah 46;9,10

satan can do fake predictions,,,,,,,,,but satan can predict ONLY the things which satan causes to happen.



ONLY God can predict the rise and fall of nations, thousands of years in advance.

Only God could predict the RESURRECTION OF ISRAEL from the dead, ,,,,,,2500 years before it happened.

Ezekiel 37 tells of the resurre