Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac's $5 trillion mess
Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac own or guarantee $5 trillion worth of mortgages, nearly half of all the country's outstanding home loan debt. Now, both companies are teetering on financial ruin. How could the companies end up in such awful straits? Given the way they were created and run, a better question might be: how could they not?

IndyMac is the 5th bank to go this year so far. its being reported in the media as the biggest bank collapse in history.

if fannie mae is in genuine trouble then the american financial system and economy is in serious trouble.

tommorow could be a very dangerous time on the NYSE and on the FTSE because theres also trouble in the UK financials, another big lender is in trouble.....Monday could be crash day it has happened in the past ...bad news near the end of a week and over the weekend, monday the markets open and everybody bails.

anyway...enjoy the rest of the weekend

I'm not concerned about the American house crumbling. It's just crumbling down to it's foundation and will be rebuilt.
America was founded on a strong faith in God and many have strayed from that foundation. You only have to read the bible to see what will happen next. When Israel strayed from God, there was famine, pestilence, invasions. On the bright side, when they turned their hearts back to him, he returned them, strengthened them and they prospered.

Well my neighbor and good friend is a Real Estate Agent and works for one of the top agents in this region. They only sell the homes that are more than a million dollars if that tells you anything.

And business is doing quite good again for them. It certainly is a buyers market right now.

I guess if business is doing good right now....God must not be judging us? Wait until the next flood. Then everyone will be screaming that we are being judged again.

Notice how quiet it is about the rest of the world being judged though. Hmmmm.....

I read alot about the judgements on the United States and Israel. God must just be happy with the rest of the world but really angry at us.

Or is it that the rest of the world is just jealous and angry at us?????

All who are worthy of judgement, will be judged, I'm not singling out the US and Israel. I believe that both the US and Israel will be blessed in the end. The intention of my post was to encourage. People should not be in fear or alarmed at some of the things happening in the world but turn to God and trust in him.

I think that there is a certain jealousy. People are jealous of Israel because they are God's chosen people and many people are jealous of the US because we have been so prosperous.

Adonaicole, you should be concerned this time, the monetary trick can not work this time, for Bush has managed to overstep the point of no return:

1. An unsurpassed national debt and budget deficit
2. The world will soon be disconnecting from the dollar as international currency
3. Bush robbed the pension vaults
4. The amount of house foreclosures is in exponential rise
5. The stock market exchanges will be hammered down worldwide
6. The oil prices will not go down (we are at the end of the oil era).

There is only one way out, and that is God. Otherwise it will be one giant catastrophe.

I agree with you Don.

And I'm never trying to say that the United States is innocent. Far from it. Myself, you, and all Christians know just how far the sin in this nation has gone.

But its just so interesting to see people from Europe and Asia focusing on how evil the United States is and totally leave out what is going on in their own nations.

Everytime there is a flood here.....they scream it's God's judgement on us.

But when you hear of Sunamies and Earthquakes and Monsoons, and diseases ravaging their nations....not a peep will you hear from them.

Wrong again Chloe.
If you remember a few months ago I posted a fiery plead for America to return to the foundations. You seem to think I hate America.
Nothing is less true. But you guys are immune to warning to keep going forth in self-indulged haughtiness, which is NOT the way.

As much as it grieves me, but you bring it on yourselves.

But Justice....

The thing is.....WE KNOW THIS.

Do you think that I and other believers in this country are blind to it all? NO!

It is the times we live in for sure. There is much wickedness in this world.

The thing is....its NOT JUST the United States...which is all I ever see you and a few others focus on.

That is why I say what I do. I'm so sick of the self righteous attitude you have as if the rest of the world is spotless concerning sin.

The fact is....I believe the root of your and others judgements on the U.S. is pure jealousy that God has blessed us.

You would LOVE nothing more than to see our cities, our ecomomy, the people crumble to the ground.

If that happens Justice......YOU BETTER BE AFRAID.

The reason is....

....this nation is shouldering much of weight at keeping evil dictators from attacking nations who cannot defend themselves.
Because they know we will kick their behind if they try doing it to one of our allies or nations where we have a good relationship with, and if they threaten a region where we need to maintain a strategic defense.

This is what has kept much of the peace in the world.

Followers of Islam are seeking to control this world. And if the Lord tarries...what a scary world that would be.

Nobody will love to live in such a world.

You insist on keep twisting my words.
It is YOU who have managed to colden my love for the US.
It is YOU who loves America so much that any critical note is met with your blatant venom.
As long as you keep that up, I will not budge one inch.

Want to go to a head-to-head with me?
Then watch this week.

You are haughty and your heart is hate filled. You will have it your way.

I love you Justice, but I have to agree with Cloe (and I don't see her post as hate-filled at all).

The US is the bread basket of the world and many countries depend on the US for food. If the US fails, it will be 10x worse for the countries that depend on the US. For food and for military protection.

There is a hard core of God's followers in the US. Not only will they survive, they will prosper in extremely difficult times (this is true not only in the US but in every nation). When people see how the believers are not only surviving but prospering, many will come to believe.

In all things, trust in God's perfect will and you will not be disappointed.

Chloe and Adonaicole,

Excellent posts.

Gods Blessings,

Al

I have been observing this forum for a few months and have read some very interesting posts. That said, my comment is for Justice. All I see from your posts is an "I'm smarter then you", "I'm better than you", "my opinions hold more weight", attitude.

Where do you get off bashing, at random, other posters for their positions, when you have very little to offer in the way of discussion.

From what I have been reading, the vast majority of those who post to this site have an above average understanding of scripture. But you seem to take a desenting opinion personally and write outlandish responses that, if taken seriously, are hurtful if not completly contrary to what Jesus himself would have us do as Christians.

I am not trying to stur the pudding but Christians need to hold each other accountable for their actions and statements with compasion and love. Not with "I'm not going to pray for you", or "I hope you suffer so i'll be proven right" statements.

Just imagine that someone who is not Christian, who may be searching for christ, stumbles across this forum like I did. How do these attacks on each other promote our walk with Jesus?

just a thought

So now your challenging me? Oh my goodness!

Justice...

I didn't get your heart cold toward the United States. That has been there all along. Again....just read your words.

Your "waiting" for the day when 50% of Americans are on the streets?

http://www.christian-forum.net/index.php?s...mp;#entry210488

No mercy is in your heart for a country that has done more than any other nation to spread the gospel of Jesus Christ to the world.

The Church of Laodicea has nothing to boast about, it only can repent and turn to the Lord in shame, humility and brokenness.

I personally went on two mission trips to Russia, while living in sin, and it is appalling when I remember the wicked mixture I personally have promoted in the name of missions and evangelism. I thank God for revealing to me how much works of self-righteousness I did that were and are abomination to the Holy
God. I did in BY the name of Jesus- not IN his name. I was not abiding in Christ alone nor walking following His spirit. Hence- much leaven has been exported to the world by American Christians...but the real Gospel has power- and we have a new nature that is the same nature as Christ.

Then we will be IN Jesus' name- not just using His name.

I hope you can see what I mean and then you will begin to understand why God is so merciful to bring us to a place of need (a wilderness) where we will be saved by Him and not ourselves, or the systems of man.

In this trial, the Lord will be our provider- literally. Jesus is the Bread that comes out of heaven. His word promises us literal bread too- if we walk by faith and believe. When there is no strong economy- many will see the power and provision of God in a way they never have...and many will grow in the Lord.

This will make the hard times worth it- for the treasures we store up in heaven.

So don't be afraid- Jesus still multiplies loaves and fishes. he does not need money to take care of you.

I feel like pulling my hair out reading some of these threads. It's a little frustrating. And I feel someone should stick up for Justice here and I am not afraid to do so. Is anyone at all aware in another thread within the past 24 hours Justice is accused of loving America too much? Come on people. I know I've not been here long so I don't really know you people well but this is just too much. Not to mention there are implications Justice thinks only America has problems. I can tell you for certain that Justice practices what she preaches concerning her own country and the situation here in Europe too. She's one of the few Europeans here so I've spoken to her about the serious situations we have found ourselves in here in the European Union. The world is big and round and full of people that is for certain.
It's true we don't always speak the same way, or say things the same way. How many different churches have you been to? Have some pastors beat the pulpit and yelled about hellfire for an hour and others talked calmly about the loving side of God? I have been to both types and some in between.
I don't know what else to say really.
Peace

I haven't read this whole thread...just a couple lines. I'm quite sure you all have the wrong impression of Justice. I know Justice very very well..and she has a fierce love for the Lord and His people. The Lord will bring judgment on us...whether we are in the US or Europe or a tiny no-named island in the Pacific. I'm sure of it as well as Justice. I'm an American...but I hold no love for my country per say...but I hold an extreme love for our people. I didn't choose America..the Lord blessed me to be born here. My country is the Kingdom of Heaven and He is where my allegiance is held.

As I'm sure it is with most of us here on this board. We know we are all here temporarily. Why do we have to constantly argue with eachother? I don't understand. These arguments are the whispers of the enemy tangling up your time to keep us from His work!!! Keep your eyes focused on the Lord and what He would have us do..time is short..so short!!!

When you (meaning all of us) feel anger or pride in anything know it is of the flesh! It needs to be crucified because it cannot share the same space with the Lord. Jesus lives in us...He sees what you see, He hears what you say, He reads what you type, He feels all your feelings...how painful it must be for Him to feel the flesh within us! Search your hearts...ask Him to reveal the flesh that stands between you. He will show you.

..well, I sort of got off topic here. Guess I had something that needed to be said.
But I still stand that Justice is misunderstood by many...as well as Chloe...and both of them I know love the Lord.

So let's brush off this muck and move into praising the Lord!!!! For we have all been so very blessed to have been led here to fellowship with eachother and learn from one another. Let's praise the Lord for the mercy He has shown us by hearing our intercessory prayers by granting them. Let's praise the Lord for the Healings, Deliverance, Provisions that He showers upon us on a daily basis. Let's praise the Lord for the perfect Love He showers upon us! Let's look to His light and let it shine through us..for the day draws near that He will come for those who are His!!

And I jumped up, did the dance, and shouted AMEN!! =)

I love you all my brothers and sisters
and the Lord loves you too..
Love & many Blessings!!!
Lisa

Amen!
Blessed are the peacemakers...

BACK to the subject of the OP:

Beneath the Tip of the Iceberg

By Dexter B. Wakefield



The world economy is reeling from the effects of the “sub-prime mortgage crisis.” Financial experts are worried that fragile global economic institutions may be in serious peril. Why has this happened, and is there anything we can do about it?


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


If you own a home, you have probably been well aware of the “sub-prime mortgage crisis” that has shaken the financial industry in recent months. For example, countless borrowers who opted for adjustable-rate mortgages are starting to see their mortgage payments rise—often to levels beyond their ability to pay, leading to financial ruin and often to foreclosure on the family residence.
If you are not a homeowner, or you do not have a variable-rate mortgage, you may think you are not affected by these troubles. But if that is what you think, you are wrong! The sub-prime mortgage crisis has complex consequences throughout the economy, and is actually the symptom of a far more serious problem that represents a far greater risk to the financial system of the United States—and the entire world!
Home mortgage woes are real, and they are serious, but they are only the proverbial “tip of the iceberg.” It is what lurks beneath the visible iceberg that poses a far greater risk.


*************************************************************************************

This article is lengthy......Here is the link to read the rest of it.

http://www.tomorrowsworld.org/cgi-bin/tw/t...item=1214895948

I live in South Africa and God;s judgment is here as well. This time round there will be no rebuilding of anything.

America is viewed as the Western Christian leader nation. When she turned her back on God, we all started following. In my country we have a saying: If America gets the flu, we get a cold. Because everything that happens with you, the rest of the western world follows. You go down, we go down as well. But you are going down first as well, because you lead in everything so far. You led us in abortions, in being PC, we also allow gays to get married now. We want to be like you. We too wanted to follow the American dream.
The rest figured: America is a Christian nation and if you say it is OK, it must be OK.

We fell into sin as well. Why? Because we looked at you and not at God .But you lead the way, you are the biggest and most powerful and the most responsible also in God's eyes. You were founded upon the Word.

But in the end, we are all guilty. We all are about to move into judgment. And the judgment has started with the house of God.With the Christians.

There will be no rebuilding. After this tribulation, human government as we know it, will be no more.

C

We, here in Canada, feel we are above the US! OK well, at least geographically!!

John

Adullam...you just put a smile on my face. Hope your doing well.

Justice....I don't hate you. I love you. I know you have strong feelings about sin...we all should.

But I'm just saying that for me....I believe in seeking His mercy and grace and showing that to this world. His forgiveness is what people in this world need. They don't need someone holding a hammer over their head (so to speak).

I have yet to see people light up in their face when they hear about how angry God is with them. What brings someone to their knees is knowing that everything they have ever done can be forgiven them because of what Yeshua did on the cross.

The United States is not innocent by far. And yes...as the "current" leaders of the world....we are more accountable...and were doing a rotten job in many areas.

My problem has been all about focusing ONLY on the U.S. Which is what I have seen so many doing.

And as Lisa put....our real home is not of this world. But right now....the United States is the home I live in and I feel that Americans need to be aware of the tactics that some use to attempt to destroy us.

There are some that come onto the net (actual terrorists that do this) and intentionally trash the United States as a form of Propaganda.

I have a friend that works for Homeland Security and monitors activity from Islamic sites on the net. He told me this.

The United States is in a war with Islam. And I don't see it ever ending. Because we very well could be in the beginning stages of Armageddon.

Our coming Presidential election is very very important for the future of this nation.

I'm very concerned that the foolish people of this country...(and there are many) will again think that changing political parties will be the solution to our problems. It's not.

I think the key to any blessings that come to the United States, is our defense of Israel.

When we loose that.....I honestly think that is when all hell is going to break out against us.

Earthquakes, floods, storms....they are bad, yes. But personally....I think its mainly mother nature acting up with warmer temperatures. Its a proven fact this is how it works.

But when we stop defending Israel....that is when I truely think God will intervene and put the hammer down. Heaven help us then.

There will be no rebuilding. After this tribulation, human government as we know it, will be no more

good thing to, these dudes are driving me crazy

people with wealth many times are not concerned with discretionary spending and
are beyond the bubble at the moment, but only for a moment.

Oh Lisa....

I love the sunshine that you spread on this forum when we all get grumpy.

Love ya...

Cindy

You have all given me a very good impression what it is like to be a messenger that brings the message of necessary repentance.
Thank God for the internet, or I would be dead by now. Although being dead would be preferable to me right now.

The same people that were silent when I preached that we should unite, were front rowers to stone me in the past week. To me that is revealing. It has shown me what is truly in a man's heart. However, in the face of adversity, I have learned throughout my life, to brace myself and take a stand where others would run, and that is my essence. I indeed count it joy when the devil throws his hatred at me, only for him to see it shattered on my skin. I was made for times like this, and you can not stop me. None of you. So when you hear me say unpleasant things, it is because your white sepulchres have opened up the wounds that fester inside you. I do you a favour by doing it. I do not care for popularity contests either, it is all flattery and vanity.
My colleagues never found me popular, but feared me. And rightfully so. I do also not count this for a pumped up ego. God KNOWS what is in my heart.

But I warn you. Keep spitting venom at me, and I may decide that I will NOT plead forgiveness with God on your behalf. There is a limit.
A limit to Sodom and a limit to Ghomorra. If you really crave those fireballs, keep spitting, they will surely come. I say to you: bring it on.
I can hear God's Nostrils already.

blessedinva, Melangel, Lisa and C, thank you.

DON'T puff yourself up as if you are the mediator between God and Christians on this forum.

Read the Ten Commandments again.

You covet that is why you hate because your jealous.

Another evil example of your words. I'm disgusted by this....

http://www.christian-forum.net/index.php?s...mp;#entry210867

Jealous? LOL you are projecting your heart on me again.

The very Ten Commandments that I defended and you rejected on behalf of yer petty noahide laws?

My wallet is not at stake, hon, YOURS is, and you panick for betting on mammon.

I am begining to understand why your colleagues feered you.

I am sorry to be the one to tell you this Justice but you have a very naive understanding of grace.

Not one person on this earth is worthy of Gods love or patience, No not even you. But you seem to think that Gods judgement is on tap and you have the faucet.

I love how fired up you are about God, I honestly do. But God is a God of Mercy first and foremost. His judgement is the result of his righteousness and not the other way around. By reversing the previous statement you put god in a box, a very small box, and create in him a type of omnipotent hitman who's ready to dole out punishment on a whim. It makes Jesus, and the redemption the he offers, irrelevent.

I am sorry for being so blunt, but it is one thing to gloss over your comments as extreme and move on but we are of the family of God. We hold each other accountable and walk this life together.

I am praying for you

jim

It is not I that puts God in a box, for I know His Infinity far exceeds anything we can even imagine.
God knows my desire to spend eternity learning.

But is was foretold, that it would taste like honey, but once eaten, it would be bitter in the stomach. We now witness the aftertaste of that sweet honey, and the bitterness will bring out the demons that have them under control. Once brought forth, we now can start to cast out these demons called hatred, jealousy, envy, lust, self-righteousness, adoration of idols, serving mammon, and so forth.

If you find me extreme, then how extreme do you find Jesus? Read again.

Some scriptures for you Justice.

Listen to what the Word of God has to say about your words....

"judgment will be merciless to one who has shown no mercy" (James 2:13).


"Do not judge lest you be judged yourselves. For in the way you judge, you will be judged; and by your standard of measure, it shall be measured to you" (Matthew 7:1-2)

Peter wrote,

"Submit yourselves to every human institution, whether to a king as the one in authority, or to governors as sent by him for the punishment of evildoers and the praise of those who do right" (1 Peter 2:13-14).

Jesus did not dispute Pilate's authority to execute capital punishment. Indeed, He stated that this authority came from God (John 19:10-11).

Jesus told the disciples why they should not judge others, "so that you will not be judged."

Judging is a divine prerogative. We take too much upon ourselves if we set ourselves over others to judge them. It is not the privilege or the position of a servant to judge other servants.

That is the responsibility of their master. We make ourselves masters and not servants when we judge others.

http://www.cbn.com/spirituallife/teachings...px?option=print

This site is specifically for you Justice....

http://libertyandlove.info/Resources/Archi...ersWrongly.aspx

Welcome Jim.

I'm sorry your coming on to the forum in the middle of this....but this person is going too far with the proclaimations against the U.S.

I'm sick and tired of it!

For one thing, I don't think Jesus is extreme. The Jewish leadership at the time certainly did but this isn't the point.

I want to ask you a question, in all seriousness. As a member of the body of Christ, what do YOU think is our number one responsibility with our time on earth?

Our number one priority is to love one another.
Therefore I warn you of pending danger, even at the expence of my life.

Pending danger?

That is not a new revelation.

Americans have been getting visions about these for some time now. Including myself. Its why we pray for this nation.

Your acting as if God is giving you some GRAND knowledge about the United States when all your doing is judging and gloating over the trouble that this country is in.

Learning To Give And Receive God's Grace

Do you judge others? Is it easy for you to find fault with those around you? Then beware: Your spiritual life is in danger.

A critical attitude can hinder your walk with God and distract you from God's purposes for your life.

WHY WE JUDGE

We judge because of our own selfish interests. For example, we sometimes become critical when comparing ourselves to those around us. We try to find fault in others to prove that we are smarter, better looking, happier or wealthier. But these are selfish reasons. We simply want to feel better about ourselves. We also get critical when others fail to do what we ask, or do not do what we think is right. Often, it is a family member, friend or co-worker who fails to meet our expectations. Our expectations lead to a judgmental attitude.

Even our own frustrations can lead to a critical attitude. If life is not turning out the way we desire, we hide our own frustrations by finding fault with others.

JUDGE NOT ...

Finding fault and being critical are some of the easiest things to do. They seem to come naturally to us. But Jesus told us not to judge "lest you be judged" (Matt. 7:1, NASB). We should obey His command.

Jesus then explained why a judgmental attitude is so dangerous: "God will be as hard on you as you are on others! He will treat you exactly as you treat them" (v.2).

When we judge, we invite judgment upon ourselves. The Bible says that "judgment will be merciless to one who has shown no mercy" (James 2:13).

By judging others, we hide our own hypocrisy. For example, when the religious leaders brought a woman to Jesus who had been caught in sexual sin, they wanted to kill her. But Jesus responded, "If any of you have never sinned, then go ahead and throw the first stone at her" (John 8:7). Nobody threw one.

God alone reserves the right to judge each person (Romans 14:4). As the Apostle Paul said, "Dear friends, don't try to get even. Let God take revenge. In the Scriptures the Lord says, `I am the one to take revenge and pay them back'" (Romans 12:19).

http://www.cbn.com/spirituallife/teachings...px?option=print

Chloe, I can not help it that your personality keeps laying words in my mouth that I have not said.
So, because others say the same, I am the one that should shuddup, and the others can speak, do I get that right?

Your blatant hatred towards me, not only reveals something very ugly in your heart, but also achieves the opposite of what you intended.

If you fail to see that you have put your country ABOVE God, then so be it.
I want nothing to do with the ugliness inside you. Bleah.

I agree Justice. I love you and appreciate the sincerity with which you speak. Be faithful and true to what God speaks to you but also be careful not to speak a harsh word to a fellow believer (who loves you) that is not from God.

We should do that as Christians anyway. Our #1 task as members of the body of Christ is set forth in the great commission. We are to bring people to know and love Christ. To be Baptised in the spirit so they can go forth and do the same.

I haven't seen many theological differences between members of this site so I am going to assume that we are all pretty much in agreement on basic biblical principles. We can debate prophetic signs and meanings which I believe is healthy for Christians because at the very least it helps us to focus on the eternal. After all, we're just passing through this world.

The beauty of this web site, for me anyway, is that it gives those who aren't believers an insight into what believers are talking about. It raises questions, provokes thought and, hopefully, leads people to know Jesus.

But your posts and responses, Justice, don't seem to reflect the basic responsibility we have as Christians. To love each other, yes, but to do what we can to bring non believers to Christ. The rest is pointless.

Watching and Waiting for Christ is important. Understanding prophecy is important. But when we stand before Jesus I would much rather be standing with those that I brought to know him than those whom I could have brought but through my actions, or inactions, didn't.

Fine, then count me pointless. For if the venom spitters claim to be part of the Body of Christ, then I wish not to be included in SUCH a body.

It's not spitting venom. It's holding fellow believers accountable. Just what I hope you would do to me if I were out of line

PUTTING WORDS IN YOUR MOUTH????????

Everyone can read your evil rejoicing of the problems my country is facing. Let me post a few of your quotes.

Make me a liar Justice...I dare you.

http://www.christian-forum.net/index.php?showtopic=21217

* "See your greed at work, full blown".

* "I am waiting for the moment that 50% of all americans live in the streets. There is no end to greed".

* "Down, down, down with the greed economy! Praise God!
God, the only economy that is worthy is Yours, the Economy of Abundance!!
Mammon is going down, down, down".

* "Rejoice! The Lord is bringing Babylon down! Mammon the idol will fall alongside.
When the House of the Lord has been cleansed thoroughly, then will the world see Judgment.
No exceptions".

* (my personal favorite after she was shown what the Word of God says...) "Venom spitter".

Cindy, I love you and your opinion of Justice hits the middle of the target....bulls eye! Anyway something isn't adding up to what she considers Christianity and compassion. When she claims that she will not pray for others or when she continues to openly attempt to manipulate this forum with twisting words of the other poster around, something doesn't add up. By attempting to win a debate at all cost even if that cost is an immature Christian or a young mind, just isn't right. Please go to the section: Not Interpreted Dreams and Visions...the thread by Sand, "Pushed kid out window," and you will see an example of cyberspace bullying. I reported that particular thread and will continue to report threads that are meant to hurt people. People can continue to make excuses for her behavior on this forum but the writting is clearly in the pudding. Being a Christian does not include taking and accepting verbal abuse by any cyberspace person who happens to be unhappy themselves and trying to spread the joy around.

Gods Blessings,

Al

Adeline, you missed most of the lynching.

LYNCHING????

On whos part? Playing the victim again?

I'm so sick of this!

Cindy,

She would rather play the victim than she would the survivor. She keeps crying, unfair and gets the sympathy's of the audience. Justice knows how to play those cards and has become a card shark. But her last card went flying out that window with her posts to Sand. I don't want to lynch Justice but I do want some accountablility on her part for some of the untruth she posts.

Thanks Al...

I just posted a comment to Sand. That did not set right with me.

love ya....