How to be Born-again?

Greetings!

There is no greater question to ask than that which you have asked. It was asked by a great leader of Jesus long ago:

John 3:1 There was a Jewish leader named Nicodemus, who belonged to the party of the Pharisees.

Joh 3:2 One night he went to Jesus and said to him, "Rabbi, we know that you are a teacher sent by God. No one could perform the miracles you are doing unless God were with him."

John 3:3 Jesus answered, "I am telling you the truth: no one can see the Kingdom of God without being born again."

John 3:4 "How can a grown man be born again?" Nicodemus asked. "He certainly cannot enter his mother's womb and be born a second time!"

Joh 3:5 "I am telling you the truth," replied Jesus, "that no one can enter the Kingdom of God without being born of water and the Spirit.

Joh 3:6 A person is born physically of human parents, but is born spiritually of the Spirit.

Joh 3:7 Do not be surprised because I tell you that you must all be born again.

Joh 3:8 The wind blows wherever it wishes; you hear the sound it makes, but you do not know where it comes from or where it is going. It is like that with everyone who is born of the Spirit."

Joh 3:9 "How can this be?" asked Nicodemus.

Joh 3:10 Jesus answered, "You are a great teacher in Israel, and you don't know this?

Joh 3:11 I am telling you the truth: we speak of what we know and report what we have seen, yet none of you is willing to accept our message.

Joh 3:12 You do not believe me when I tell you about the things of this world; how will you ever believe me, then, when I tell you about the things of heaven?

Joh 3:13 And no one has ever gone up to heaven except the Son of Man, who came down from heaven."

Joh 3:14 As Moses lifted up the bronze snake on a pole in the desert, in the same way the Son of Man must be lifted up,

Joh 3:15 so that everyone who believes in him may have eternal life.

Joh 3:16 For God loved the world so much that he gave his only Son, so that everyone who believes in him may not die but have eternal life.

Joh 3:17 For God did not send his Son into the world to be its judge, but to be its savior.

Joh 3:18 Those who believe in the Son are not judged; but those who do not believe have already been judged, because they have not believed in God's only Son.

Joh 3:19 This is how the judgment works: the light has come into the world, but people love the darkness rather than the light, because their deeds are evil.

Joh 3:20 Those who do evil things hate the light and will not come to the light, because they do not want their evil deeds to be shown up.

Joh 3:21 But those who do what is true come to the light in order that the light may show that what they did was in obedience to God.

So what is Jesus saying?

He is saying that you must have a spiritual birth to enter heaven.

How do you do this?

By looking to Jesus like the Israelites did in the wilderness when they gazed upon the serpent upon the pole and were healed of their snake bites.

All have sinned and come short of the glory of God. We all have been bitten by the serpent, so to speak, just as Adam and Eve were in the sense that they listened to his lies and spiritual died. Later they physically died too. For God had warned that, "In the day that ye eat thereof you shall surely die!"

And so we see this symbolic picture before us of a snake upon a pole in the wilderness.

Jesus said that He Himself is like that snake on the pole!

What pole?

Jesus was referring to the cross. Jesus would die upon a cross as if He were accursed like that snake.

Why did He die?

He died in our place. He took the venom of the snake upon Himself when He died on that cross! He died in our place, the spotless lamb of God!

What must we do to be cured of our snake bite? That is,

What must we do to be cured of our sins with its penalty of death?

Jesus has done it all for you already! All that remains for you to do is to look upon Jesus by faith for your cure just as the ancient Israelites looked upon that snake to be cured of their snake bites!

Whoever looked up at that bronze snake upon the pole in the days of Moses were healed. All that did not look because of their unbelief and disobedience perished.

It is the same way today between us and Jesus!

All that look to Him in faith and believe that He died for your on that cross will be saved --- healed of their sin and the curse of sin.

Whoever is healed and saved from their sins by believing this message is also born-again. For salvation by faith in Jesus, (apart from works), is how one becomes born-again. They are forgiven, and the Holy Spirit of God comes and changes them from the inside out. They are born-again, though outwardly they appear the same, yet inwardly a new sense of cleanness and joy takes over. That person has been born-again!

Whoever is born-again loves Jesus, and whoever loves Him follows Him!

This is how to be born-again!

And he that is born-again is passed from death to life. He will live forever.

Hello Shekel.
Great work that you are doing with this site. The more I read the more I see the Lord using you to eddify all.

I have an addition though to this post....How to be born again......It is so important that all realise that a critical component of salvation is repentance.

All the reading and understanding in the world cannot attain salvation alone. We have to accept Christ, accept the gift and repent of our sines, thanking Him for our salvation and recognising his crucifiction and resurection.

The problem we have is that even satan knows that Jesus died on the cross and was risen on the third day.......And he knows why Jesus did it.

We can be born again if we give up our sins to Jesus, accept forgiveness in His name and allow the Spirit to help us to grow in him.

Just my humble input...... Regards and thanks again.


Meshuganah

Good job and it sure will help those who do not fully understand the true meaning of salvation and being born again. I look forward to your further postings on this topic.

your sis in Yeshua
Sunshine



[quote=Meshuganah,Oct 18 2005, 05:35 PM]
Hello Shekel.
Great work that you are doing with this site. The more I read the more I see the Lord using you to eddify all.

I have an addition though to this post....How to be born again......It is so important that all realise that a critical component of salvation is repentance.

All the reading and understanding in the world cannot attain salvation alone. We have to accept Christ, accept the gift and repent of our sines, thanking Him for our salvation and recognising his crucifiction and resurection.

The problem we have is that even satan knows that Jesus died on the cross and was risen on the third day.......And he knows why Jesus did it.

We can be born again if we give up our sins to Jesus, accept forgiveness in His name and allow the Spirit to help us to grow in him.

Just my humble input...... Regards and thanks again.


Meshuganah
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Romans5:8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

The death of Jesus on the cross paid the price for your sins. All you need to do is ask Jesus into your heart and the FATHER GOD to forgive your sins, and believe that JESUS died so that you can have eternal life!

Romans 6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Without accepting Jesus as your LORD and Savior, you will not come into the KINGDOM OF GOD. He is the only way to reach the FATHER.

Romans 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. 10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. 11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed. 12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him. 13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

Salvation

What did Jesus do for you?

John 1:11 He came unto his own, and his own received him not. 12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:


Jesus sacrificed his own body for your sins. He took your sins and the sin in your life was covered by his sacrifice.

Romans 5:15 But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many.

2 Corinthians 5:21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

Colossians 2:13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;


When we accept Jesus as our LORD and Savior, we are made new. Old things are passed away!

2 Corinthians 5:17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.


He calls out to you while yet living in sin and wants you to come to HIM.

Ephesians 2:1 And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;

1 Timothy 2:3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour; 4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.


He offers you forgiveness of sins.

Colossians 2:13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses; 14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;

We become joint-heirs with Jesus!

Titus 3:4 But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared, 5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost; 6 Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour; 7 That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.


Jesus is our advocate to the FATHER.

1 John 2:1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous: 2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for our's only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

Belief

Mark 9:23 Jesus said unto him, If thou canst believe, all things are possible to him that believeth.


When we receive Jesus as LORD and Savior we become the sons of GOD.

John 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:


He doesn't want us to die,but have eternal life!

John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. 17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

John 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

John 6:35 And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst.

John 6:47 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life.

John 12:46 I am come a light into the world, that whosoever believeth on me should not abide in darkness. 47 And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.

Acts 10:43 To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.

Acts 16:31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.





Commitment means...

Repent= Turn away from sins and follow GOD'S new direction for your life.

Believe= Trust Jesus as your substitute over all your sins.

Confess= Acknowledge Jesus as the supreme authority over your life.

Call= Ask HIM for forgiveness, eternal life and hope.



A Simple prayer of repentance and commitment to GOD

Dear GOD, I know that Jesus is YOUR SON and that HE died on the cross was was raised from the dead. He died for me. His Blood was shed to cover my sins. Because I have sinned and need forgiveness, I ask JESUS to come into my heart. I am willing to change the direction of MY LIFE by acknoweldging that JEUS is MY LORD and MY SAVIOR, and by turning away from sin. Thank you for giving me forgiveness,eternal life, and hope, in JESUS name, Amen.



If you prayed this prayer, and want to know more, contact us, or leave a message here. We want to help you in your new life in JESUS!

nice one

I appreciate the tought of this thread ... and agree with your insight, Meshuganah. I see your thought in Romans 6:14-18~

14 For sin will not have dominion over you. For you are not under law, but under grace.
15 What then? Shall we sin, because we are not under law, but under grace? May it never be!
16 Don't you know that to whom you present yourselves as servants to obedience, his servants you are whom you obey; whether of sin to death, or of obedience to righteousness?
17 But thanks be to God, that, whereas you were bondservants of sin, you became obedient from the heart to that form of teaching whereunto you were delivered.
18 Being made free from sin, you became bondservants of righteousness.

How praiseworthy ... that our gift of salvation includes power over sin!

Blessings to you.

Years ago I believe what is written here concerning being born again. But no longer do I agree with the idea someone is born again when they ask Jesus into their heart. First of all, asking Jesus into your heart is not scriptural to begin with. If so, where does it say this is true. I cannot find any scripture that verifies such a doctrine. Yet it is taught and beleived by most every day.

Anyway, here is something witten by another other than myself that I am in agreement with for the most part concerning this issue. So my purpose for posting it here is to offer it for examination along with encouraging anyone interested to study out what is written here with an open heart.

> "ASK JESUS INTO OUR HEART"??
> by Andrew Strom.
>
> I only really concern myself with 'doctrine' when it is something that I
> feel is really fundamental and important. I can't be bothered with endless
> arguments over End-time theories, for instance. But to me, there are
> certain fundamentals which the modern church seems to be willing to
> compromise or ignore for the sake of "unity" or convenience.
>
> One of the most basic things that has amazed me in the area of
> 'doctrine' for many years is the preaching of "Giving your heart to
> the Lord" or "Asking Jesus into your life" to become a Christian. Do
> we not realize that such a practice is FOUND NOWHERE IN THE ENTIRE
> BIBLE? Is there ANY example of someone "asking Jesus into their heart"
> (or similar) to become a Christian in the book of Acts? NO, NOT EVEN
> ONE. The book of Acts is full of literally thousands of people
> becoming born-again Christians. And we are often told exactly what
> these people did. But there is no record of any of them doing anything
> like "asking Jesus into their heart" to be saved.
>
> Now surely, Surely, SURELY, if the church has even remotely got it's
> act together, it would have this one thing right. Surely this has got
> to be one of the most crucial and basic points in the whole New
> Testament:- How exactly are people supposed to become Christians?
> What were they told to do in the New Testament? A very simple and
> straight- forward question, you would think. And so vitally important.
>
> But incredibly, it seems like very few have even bothered to
> ask this question or to take on board the glaringly obvious answer.
> Here we have one of the most vital, fundamental points that it is
> possible to have in Christianity:- "WHAT SHALL WE DO TO BE SAVED?"
> And generally speaking, our answer today is utterly, utterly different
> from that of the apostles. Incredible really, isn't it? It's right
> there in black-and-white, time after time! But TRADITION has blinded
> our eyes to the Truth. And I'm sure that even many of you reading this
> will be shocked by how obvious the truth of this matter is.
>
> Let's start with the day of Pentecost (-a great place to begin!)
> As we all know, the Holy Spirit fell on the 120, and they all
> began to speak in tongues. This is officially known by all theologians
> as the birth of the Church - the beginning of Christianity as we know
> it. And after Peter preached his convicting sermon to the gathered
> throng that day, another 3000 people were added to the church. And we
> are told exactly what occurred:- "... they were cut to the heart, and
> said to Peter and the rest of the apostles, 'Brethren, WHAT SHALL WE
> DO?' And Peter said to them, 'REPENT, and be BAPTIZED every one of you
> in the name of Jesus Christ for the FORGIVENESS OF YOUR SINS; and you
> shall receive the gift of the HOLY SPIRIT'" (Acts 2:37-38 RSV). You
> will notice that there are three elements to Peter's answer:-
> REPENTANCE, WATER-BAPTISM and receiving the HOLY SPIRIT. We
> will see this pattern repeated again and again, right through the book of
> Acts (-in fact, throughout the New Testament writings) in the most
> glaringly obvious way. And yet still we hear, "Just ask Jesus into
> your heart" preached throughout Christendom today.
>
> The next significant people-group to be reached by the early
> Christians were the Samaritans. In Acts chapter 8, we read how Philip
> the evangelist saw massive Revival in Samaria:- "But when they
> believed Philip as he preached good news about the kingdom of God and
> the name of Jesus Christ, they were BAPTIZED, both men and women...
> Peter and John, who came down and prayed for them that they might
> RECEIVE THE HOLY SPIRIT; for it had not yet FALLEN on any of them,
> but they had only been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. Then they
> laid their hands on them and they RECEIVED the HOLY SPIRIT" (Acts
> 8:12-17). Note the identical pattern to the salvations on the day of
> Pentecost.
>
> The next significant people-group to be reached by the early church
> were the godly gentiles (-Acts chapters 10 & 11). Peter was led by God
> to preach to Cornelius and his household:- "While Peter was still
> saying this, the HOLY SPIRIT FELL on all who heard the word... For
> they heard them SPEAKING IN TONGUES and extolling God. Then Peter
> declared, 'Can anyone forbid water for BAPTIZING these people who have
> RECEIVED THE HOLY SPIRIT JUST AS WE HAVE?' And he commanded
> them to be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ" (Acts 10:44-48). Peter
> later described the scene again: "As I began to speak, the HOLY SPIRIT
FELL
> ON THEM JUST AS ON US AT THE BEGINNING" (Acts 11:15). He also
> referred to this outpouring as them being "Baptized in the Holy Spirit"
> (Acts 11:16). I hope you can see from these passages that the Holy Spirit
> 'FALLING' upon people is the same experience as people 'RECEIVING' or
> being 'BAPTIZED' in the Holy Spirit. Also, we see the same pattern as
> before in the salvation experience of Cornelius' household - Repentant
> hearts, Receiving the Holy Spirit and Baptism.
>
> Another good example involves some disciples of John the Baptist who
> Paul met at Ephesus:- "And Paul said, 'John baptized with the baptism
> of REPENTANCE, telling the people to believe in the one who was to
> come after him, that is, Jesus.' On hearing this, they were BAPTIZED
> in the name of the Lord Jesus. And when Paul laid his hands upon them,
> the HOLY SPIRIT came on them; and they SPOKE WITH TONGUES and
> prophesied" (Acts 19:1-6). I guess I hardly need to point out the
> pattern by now?
>
> Notice too that there were no "instructional classes" to prepare
> people for baptism. All the way through the book of Acts, people were
> baptized STRAIGHT AWAY, as soon as they were believing and repentant.
> With the Phillipian jailer, he and his entire household were baptized
> immediately - IN THE MIDDLE OF THE NIGHT (Acts 16:32-33). With the
> Ethiopian eunuch, he was baptized by Philip straight away, in some
> water that they saw while travelling in his chariot (Acts 8:35-38).
> And the apostle Paul himself was baptized immediately by the disciple
> Ananias, who said something very interesting to Paul beforehand:-
> "Rise and be BAPTIZED, and WASH AWAY YOUR SINS, calling on His
> name" (Acts 22:16). This verse would be treated almost like heresy by
> many in today's church. How shocking to imply that baptism might have
> something to do with forgiveness and cleansing from our past sins!
> However, there are many verses like it scattered throughout the New
> Testament. Also note that Paul was told this WELL AFTER he had had his
> blinding 'Damascus Road' experience. Today's Christians might assume
> that Paul was "born again" during this powerful encounter with God.
> Not so. Not until Paul was to be BAPTIZED was he to have his sins
> "washed away". This is clearly what the Scriptures say. Arguments,
> anyone?
>
> Many Christians are taught today that Baptism is basically a
> 'symbolic' act. In my youth I was raised mainly in Baptist churches,
> and they always taught that baptism is an "outward SYMBOL of an inner
> change". Thus baptism is stripped of much of it's significance and
> power in Christian thinking. For a "symbol" is never as important as
> the real thing, is it? I have studied baptism extensively in the New
> Testament. It is NEVER spoken of as a mere 'SYMBOL'. Rather, it is
> spoken of as being a 'circumcision of the heart', a "cutting off", a
> "burial" into the DEATH of Christ. And it is also spoken of as being
> "for the forgiveness of sins" and to "wash one's sins away". I am
> convinced that in the spirit realm (from God's point of view), baptism
> is seen as a LITERAL "burial into death" (-see Romans 6) which has a
> profound effect on our hearts and lives. But still we preach, "Ask
> Jesus into your heart", and deny many people one of the most vital
> keys to living a Christian life. I am also convinced that baptism MUST
> be by 'FULL IMMERSION'. Sprinkling little infants is not enough. This
> must be baptism for BELIEVERS. And the original Greek word 'baptizo'
> actually means "TO DIP OR IMMERSE". So people must be 'buried' under
> the water in baptism, not just sprinkled. (I'm sure most of you
> already agree with this).
>
> Likewise I am convinced that Baptism in the Holy Spirit (accompanied
> by 'speaking in tongues') is ESSENTIAL. It is NOT just an option. As
> we have seen in the book of Acts, the way that people became
> Christians in the New Testament was to (1) Repent, (2) Be Baptized in
> water and (3) Be Baptized in the Holy Spirit (accompanied always by
> 'tongues' as far as we can tell - And modern experience bears this
> out). What right do we have to change the fundamental teachings and
> practices of the Bible, just so we can make things more "convenient"
> for new converts? Unless we are getting people saved the Bible way,
> how can we claim to be getting them saved at all?
>
> We are forever talking about being "born again" in the church today.
> But are we truly getting people 'born again' like they did in Acts?
> Bearing in mind the pattern that we have seen in the New Testament,
> what exactly do you think Jesus was talking about when He declared
> that, "Unless a man is BORN OF WATER AND OF THE SPIRIT he cannot
> enter into the kingdom of God"? (Jn 3:5). Born of WATER, born of the
> SPIRIT. Hmmmmmm. That's a tough one!
>
> Baptism in water and the Spirit are never regarded as mere 'options'
> in the Scriptures. In fact they are clearly ESSENTIAL experiences to
> begin to walk in Christ's kingdom. There are many Scriptures on this
> that are often bypassed today or regarded as "inexplicable" because
> they do not fit in with current tradition. Please take the time to
> look up the following:- Mark 16:16-18, 1 Peter 3:20-21, Titus 3:5-6, 1
> Cor 10:1-2, Gal 3:27, Col 2:11-12, 1 Cor 12:13, Heb 6:1-2, Rom 6:2-11,
> Rom 8:9, Mt 28:19, etc.
>
> I really mean it. Please do take the time to look at the above
> Scriptures if you have any interest in this issue at all. Some people
> write to me with their views and opinions without ever looking at what
> these Scriptures have to say.
>
> It is my belief that there are a number of important teachings and
> practices from the early church that will be restored to fullness
> during the coming Revival. (-God often does this in Revivals). I am
> convinced that the above teaching will be one of them. (-I have
> believed this for many years). I also feel that the spiritual
> significance and power of partaking in the Lord's Supper (-The early
> church partook daily from house to house) plus sacrificial giving to
> the poor, will also be emphases that will be fully restored during the
> coming move of God. No doubt there will be others also.
>
> I realize that I have probably shocked and provoked a number of you
> with this article. Please believe me, I myself was very shocked when I
> first came face-to-face with these truths some years ago. They really
> are very apparent when you see them, but I was blind to them for many
> years. I was amongst those who gave out tracts like 'The Four
> Spiritual Laws' and led people in the "Sinner's prayer". Like many I
> would back this up by mis-applying Rev 3:20 - "Behold I stand at the
> door and knock..." (-which is clearly aimed at the CHURCH, not at
> unconverted sinners. It is Jesus standing outside the 'Laodicean'
> church, trying to get in!) I am not ashamed that I believed this. It
> was all I knew at the time. But I was certainly shocked to discover
> how much of the basic gospel I was leaving out. Like me, there are a
> number of you who will have to "search the Scriptures to see if these
> things be so" like the Bereans, just as I had to do. Believe me, I
> fought these truths for months before I simply ran out of corners to
> back into. I knew the implications of this were huge and I just did
> not want to face it. But there they are in black and white. And this
> is not a trivial matter. These are key gospel truths that we are
> talking about here.
>
> After writing the first version of this article, many people wrote to
> me pointing out that the THIEF ON THE CROSS was not baptized or
> Spirit- filled, yet he was clearly saved. Please believe me, I had all
> these same objections when I first came across this teaching. But God
> annihilated all my excuses one by one. So let me deal with this "THIEF
> ON THE CROSS" thing right here.
>
> The most obvious question is:- When did this event occur - was it
> under the OLD Covenant or the NEW Covenant? When Jesus proffered
> salvation to the thief, was the Old Covenant still in place, or had
> the New begun? For clearly, it only became possible to become an
> actual CHRISTIAN (-born again - a member of Christ's body) AFTER the
> New Covenant had started. And for the New Covenant to begin, Jesus,
> the sacrificial Lamb had to die and also be RAISED FROM THE DEAD. The
> New Covenant could not begin until this occurred. Surely we all know
> this? Jesus had to die and be raised from the dead, and then ascend
> into heaven, sending His Holy Spirit, before the Church could truly
> begin or people could start becoming born-again Christians. That is
> why people in the Old Testament, or even in Jesus' own day were not
> "born again" the way we are today. They simply couldn't be. Remember,
> Jesus said that John the Baptist was the greatest born among men, but
> even the least in the kingdom was greater than he. John the Baptist
> couldn't become a "born-again Christian" because the New Covenant had
> not yet begun. I bet he would have loved the opportunity! Jesus died
> in agony and was raised again, to purchase for us this wonderful new
> life in Him. Surely we all know this? GLORY TO GOD!!
>
> Now back to the thief. Did he have his conversation with Jesus and die
> under the New Covenant or the Old? The answer, obviously, is:- The OLD
> Covenant. He was presumably a Jew - one of God's chosen people (though
> a sinner), who received a wonderful pardon from Jesus when he repented
> and turned to Him. But those were very different conditions to those
> that we live under today. We now have a NEW Covenant - a NEW
> "agreement" with God, very different from the Old. The Old treaty is
> dead and we have a new and living way in which to walk. How do we
> enter into it? By being born again - of water and of the Spirit. And
> this has only been possible since Pentecost - the day the church
> began. I am not saying that "death-bed repentance" is not possible
> today. I'm sure that God has reached down in His mercy many times to
> people who have turned to Him when they were close to death. But these
> are special cases. They are not the "norm" for New Testament
> Christianity. Repentance, Baptism and receiving the Holy Spirit are
> ESSENTIAL to enter into the New Covenant, I believe.
>
> Quite a few people have offered me their own views and opinions on all
> this without truly becoming acquainted with the basic Scriptures on
> the matter. It is important to remember that fundamental doctrines are
> not about mere opinion. They are about what the SCRIPTURES SAY. I tell
> you, I have put MONTHS of study and prayer into this whole subject. I
> could tell that it really was THAT important. I honestly considered
> EVERYTHING - every angle I could find. Please treat this with the
> seriousness that it is due. This is a very crucial area. I believe
> these are SALVATION issues that are being discussed here. And the case
> is enormously strong. Just read the Scriptures. (-It should take less
> than an hour to read through the Scriptures highlighted above). I urge
> any of you who are the least bit interested in this to PLEASE read
> those Scriptures.
>
> I am well aware that 'doctrine' tends to be divisive by it's very
> nature. And I know that I am taking a big risk talking so openly about
> such a controversial teaching. I try and keep right away from
> doctrinal debates in general. It is only the most fundamental and
> important issues that I bother making a fuss about. You will notice
> that even though this is a 'Prophetic' site, there are no debates
> about the 'Pre-trib'/ Post- trib positions or the exact meaning of
> Daniel's 70 weeks, etc. I just find such debates pointless and utterly
> dull, to be honest. I heard the arguments many moons ago, and just
> cannot stomach any more. I have no desire for nit-picking arguments.
> But the BIG issues, like New Testament salvation and God's plan for
> His church - these things I really do care about. For I believe the
> devil is robbing us blind in some of these crucial areas. And God
> wants to restore these truths to the church.
>
> Just imagine for a moment that I am right, and baptism and receiving
> the Holy Spirit are a lot more important than we have been led to
> believe. Just think how many thousands of believers around the world
> today have received the Holy Spirit (including 'tongues') but have
> simply not bothered getting baptized. After all, it's only "symbolic",
> right? Or perhaps, they say, "I got sprinkled as a baby"? I myself
> know many, many people in this exact position. I think it's terrible,
> and I believe God does too. Not to mention all the believers who still
> have not been baptized in the Holy Spirit. Don't you think God's heart
> breaks over all this? Why do people ignore His commands? Our church
> traditions and habitual patterns have a lot to answer for in this
> area. This has got to change, friends. And I believe it will only
> change when the underlying doctrines are challenged. But if I am
> right, the devil will fight this all the way. He likes anything that
> leaves believers impoverished or still chained up in any way. This
> really is crucial doctrine, otherwise I simply would not bother with
> it. I have really stuck my neck on the line and jeopardised my
> reputation over this. And I do not do so lightly.
>
> I have been accused of being "legalistic" and 'majoring on minor
> points' by a couple of readers. I really cannot see this. As I have
> said, some doctrine is "straining at gnats" and some is really
> crucial. I believe this issue falls into the second category. Others
> accused me of being "too literal"! (I had to laugh over this). Now
> this is basic Bible doctrine we are talking about here, isn't it? Too
> literal? What on earth else should we be?
>
> Other readers accused me of believing in "baptismal regeneration".
> This is not the case. I believe that (1) Repentance, (2) Water-Baptism
> and (3) Receiving the Holy Spirit, are ALL ESSENTIAL. I do not believe
> in "baptismal" regeneration. These elements are all equally important
> and we need to have all three to be able to call ourselves 'New
> Testament Christians', as far as I can see.
>
> Other readers have brought up the verse in Romans that says "If you
> confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that
> God has raised Him from the dead you will be saved" (Rom 10:9).
> Actually, a number of theologians believe that this statement was used
> as a kind of "baptismal confession" in the early church. I remember a
> fellowship I was involved with years ago that used it in exactly this
> way. To me, this verse "proves" little doctrinally, either way. It
> needs to be put into context with the WHOLE New Testament to gain the
> proper perspective on it. I certainly don't see it as proof for
> 'asking Jesus into our heart'.
>
> One of the most serious allegations I have faced is that I am
> preaching a kind of "justification by works" by saying that baptism
> and receiving the Holy Spirit are so essential. And that I am "adding
> to the gospel" and taking away people's freedom like the Galatians!!
> Serious charges, indeed. But let's look at this carefully. Is baptism
> a "work" that I can do to myself? Is receiving the Holy Spirit a
> "work"? I don't think so! These are initial experiences that are 'DONE
> TO US' or GIVEN TO US - they're not things that we can "DO" ourselves,
> as such. Can I baptize myself? No! And isn't it a brief one-off act of
> simple faith and obedience anyway? To me, baptism is no more a "work"
> than, say, the act of "praying a sinner's prayer". The act of opening
> one's mouth, moving one's jaws and praying is not seen as a work. And
> neither should baptism be. They only take an instant, after all. The
> real question is:- Is baptism a truly spiritual act, or is it merely
> a symbolic ritual? That is the real question. This also brings up the
> whole issue of 'convenience'. For we love neat little packages that
> are comfortable and easy in this age, don't we? (-"Just asking Jesus
> in"). And baptism is so wet and messy, we think. But at the end of the
> day, what it boils down to is this:- We have to make a decision
> between doing things the Bible way and doing things the modern
> 'convenient' way. It is that simple.
>
> Now, onto something else that numerous people raised:- Where does
> FAITH come into all this? Aren't we supposed to be saved by FAITH?
> Absolutely! And faith is at a premium right through this whole thing.
> What happens when someone hears the gospel and BELIEVES it? (-A
> crucially important moment). Are they automatically a 'Christian' now?
> Just through believing what they have heard? Or do they have to act on
> that belief in some way to become a Christian? Were the Jews who were
> 'cut to the heart' when Peter preached at Pentecost automatically
> Christians right then at that moment, or did they have to DO something
> in FAITH to become Christians? Clearly, they needed to DO something,
> because Peter told them, "Repent and be baptized, and you will receive
> the gift of the Holy Spirit." And it is clear that each one of these
> elements involves the exercise of faith in Jesus.
>
> However, I believe that when the Bible speaks of the "FAITH THAT SAVES
> US", and being "JUSTIFIED BY FAITH", it is speaking of the LIFE OF
> FAITH that we undertake after we have become a Christian. It is
> 'WALKING IN FAITH' day by day, moment by moment, after having become
> a Christian that justifies us before God. It is the covering of the
> blood of Jesus that hides our sin and makes us clean in God's sight.
> If we are walking in faith, covered by the blood, we are saved, and we
> must continue to walk in it. And it is clear in the Scriptures that it
> is only by the POWER OF THE HOLY SPIRIT that we can walk in this
> kind of saving faith. This faith is a gift from God -"Not of ourselves,
> lest anyone should boast..." Like the love of God, this faith is shed
> abroad in our hearts by the Holy Spirit, who is given to us. So how
> can we obtain it without RECEIVING THE HOLY SPIRIT? (-Which brings
> us back to Repentance, Baptism and Receiving the Holy Spirit as our
> ESSENTIAL starting point in the faith).
>
> Actually, a couple of readers mentioned something quite interesting
> about baptism in the book of Acts. For it is noticeable in Acts that
> everyone was baptized "IN THE NAME OF THE LORD JESUS" or in the
> 'NAME OF JESUS CHRIST'. Now most churches today baptize in the name
> of the 'Father, Son and Holy Spirit', and I guess this is a small point,
but
> I believe that if they felt it was important in Acts to speak the name
> of Jesus Christ over people as they were baptized, then I should do it
> too. I am not legalistic about the need for this, but personally these
> days I baptize people "in the name of the Father and the Son and the
> Holy Spirit, in the NAME OF JESUS CHRIST". (-Just an interesting
> additional point?)
>
> To sum up, it is my belief that God has been slowly restoring truth to
> the church over the centuries since the dark ages when so much had
> been lost. Luther's Reformation saw the restoration of 'Justification
> by Faith', the Anabaptists re-introduced baptism by immersion, Wesley
> re-introduced a number of important concepts, and this century the
> Pentecostals re- discovered the infilling of the Holy Spirit and
> spiritual gifts. (There have been many other things over time also,
> but this is just a simple overview). It is my belief that we are now
> at the stage where God wishes to restore the church to her true
> original glory, with all the basic doctrines and practices, "church
> life" and the full original gospel, the 'five-fold' ministries, etc,
> etc, all intact. That is what is about to occur in the coming move, I
> believe. And that is another reason why I believe basic New Testament
> doctrines are important.
>
> In past centuries, as now, the believers of that time walked in the
> light that they had, and God will judge them according to the light
> that was available to them. But now it is time to see the church
> truly restored to fullness in many areas. And it is going to be
> UNCOMFORTABLE, and it will surely leave much "SHAKEN" in it's wake.
> A new Reformation is coming, and it is important that it leaves nothing
> undone that needs doing. Otherwise our children are going to have to
> have a further Reformation to correct all that we left undone. Let's
> make it as complete as possible this time, shall we? For Christ cannot
> return until a glorious Bride is made ready for Him, without "spot or
> wrinkle or any such thing". Surely we live in the days of the
> 'restoration of all things' about which the Scriptures speak.


Luv in Christ,
4Jesus

I don't know about you... but the WORD does indeed talk about JESUS being in our hearts!

Ephesians 3:17 That Christ may dwell in your hearts by faith; that ye, being rooted and grounded in love,

Colossians 3:15 And let the peace of God rule in your hearts, to the which also ye are called in one body; and be ye thankful.

Why did JESUS come?

John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

What is being saved in the Bible?


John 3:17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

John 5:34 But I receive not testimony from man: but these things I say, that ye might be saved.

John 10:9 I am the door: by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture.

Acts 2:21 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved.

Acts 2:47 Praising God, and having favour with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved.

Acts 4:12 Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.

Acts 11:14 Who shall tell thee words, whereby thou and all thy house shall be saved.

Acts 15:11 But we believe that through the grace of the LORD Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they.

Acts 16:30 And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved? 31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.

Romans 5:9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him. 10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

Romans 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

Romans 10:13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

1 Corinthians 10:33 Even as I please all men in all things, not seeking mine own profit, but the profit of many, that they may be saved.

2 Corinthians 2:15 For we are unto God a sweet savour of Christ, in them that are saved, and in them that perish:

Ephesians 2:5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;)

Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

2 Timothy 1:9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,

Titus 3:5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;


Our Salvation comes through and of JESUS CHRIST. What the Bible says about being born again:

John 3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

John 3:7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.

That is the WORD of GOD, not a doctrine of man.

So what happens to the person who is born again and keeps on sinning, is this person still going to heaven?

A very good question and one that will get various answers. I am sure you will get different opinions on this, but you must decide if you will trust in man's opinion or in the Word of God.

First understand this:
Hebrews 7:25
Therefore He is able also to save to the uttermost (completely, perfectly, finally, and for all time and eternity) those who come to God through Him, since He is always living to make petition to God and intercede with Him and intervene for them.

You cannot do it by yourself.
The old man (flesh) cannot be reconciled to God, neither can it submit to God but there is enmity between the two. One has to go.
God knew that and provided for that dilemma through the cross.

The Bible tells us what happens the moment that you become reborn:

# Galatians 2:20
I have been crucified with Christ [in Him I have shared His crucifixion]; it is no longer I who live, but Christ (the Messiah) lives in me; and the life I now live in the body I live by faith in (by adherence to and reliance on and complete trust in) the Son of God, Who loved me and gave Himself up for me.
...........bang...there goes the old man.
So why do we still see him....because we do not believe the scripture above to be true. We only see God move on our behalf when we first believe Him, before we see it.

also:

Galatians 5:24
And those who belong to Christ Jesus (the Messiah) have crucified the flesh (the godless human nature) with its passions and appetites and desires.

This again is done by faith. (faith is accepting something as true, before you see it)

Hebrews 11
1NOW FAITH is the assurance (the confirmation, [a]the title deed) of the things [we] hope for, being the proof of things [we] do not see and the conviction of their reality [faith perceiving as real fact what is not revealed to the senses].

Hebrews 11 (New Living Translation)

1What is faith? It is the confident assurance that what we hope for is going to happen. It is the evidence of things we cannot yet see. 2God gave his approval to people in days of old because of their faith.

A Christian is not a sinner. You cannot have a "halfbreed" Christians are redeemed.

# Romans 5:19
For just as by one man's disobedience (failing to hear, heedlessness, and carelessness) the many were constituted sinners, so by one Man's obedience the many will be constituted righteous (made acceptable to God, brought into right standing with Him).
Adam made mankind sinners. But the other Man (Jesus) brought redemption and came to remove sin.

John 1: 29The next day John saw Jesus coming to him and said, Look! There is the Lamb of God, Who takes away the sin of the world
The blood of animals only cleaned the sinner, but the blood of Jesus managed to take away the sin as well.

I can hear people saying already: yea but I still sin!
I know...but God also gives us a way out: Faith...again.

# Romans 6:11
Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.

See how this scripture links with the scripture that says: I am crucified with Christ and no longer live?
Reckon yourselves(use your faith, and SEE it before it happens) Only then can God make it a reality.
When you do this, the following will happen:

1 John 4:4
Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.
Its history..we have overcome.

# 1 John 5:4
For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.
You have to call things a reality before you see it. Its faith.Because....# Hebrews 11:6
But without faith it is impossible to please and be satisfactory to Him. ........

So now look at what the Bible tells us of these Christians, that uses their faith to overcome:
Revelation 2:7
He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God.

If you overcome by faith, you get to live forever.

# Revelation 2:17
He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the hidden manna, and will give him a white stone, and in the stone a new name written, which no man knoweth saving he that receiveth it.

# Revelation 2:26
And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations:

# Revelation 3:5
He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.

Revelation 3:12
Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.

# Revelation 3:21
To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.

# Revelation 21:7
He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son.

So God has a pretty serious take on the overcoming issue. It seems to be a condition to a lot of promises.
I think its pretty clear what the alternative is. NOT overcoming and living in willful sin. Do you think it will get you into heaven?
love C

Can some one explain what it means by water? Some say you need baptized and some don't.

Good question. Here is a balanced answer. You can read the whole article through the provided link. Although you will get different views on this, I tend to agree with this author.
But, remember that the Bible still teaches us to get baptised, but I think that John 3:5 does not speak about water baptism.The important point is that Jesus was not yet crucified, so baptism (not John's baptism, but baptism that we do today) could not be preached yet.

http://www.gotquestions.org/baptism-John-3-5.html


Question: "Does John 3:5 teach that baptism is necessary for salvation?"



Answer: John 3:3-7, “Jesus answered and said to him, 'Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.' Nicodemus said to Him, 'How can a man be born when he is old? He cannot enter a second time into his mother's womb and be born, can he?' Jesus answered, 'Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. Do not marvel that I said to you, "You must be born again."'"

When first considering this passage, it is important to note that nowhere in the context of the passage is baptism even mentioned. While baptism is mentioned later in this chapter (John 3:22-30) that is in a totally different setting (Judea instead of Jerusalem), and at a different time from the discussion with Nicodemus. This is not to say that Nicodemus was unfamiliar with baptism, either from the Jewish practice of baptizing Gentile converts to Judaism, or from John the Baptist’s ministry. However, simply reading these verses in context would give one no reason to assume that Jesus was speaking of baptism, unless one was looking to read into the passage a preconceived idea or theology. To automatically read baptism into this verse simply because it mentions “water” is unwarranted.

Those who hold baptism to be required for salvation point to “born of water” as evidence. As one person has put it, “Jesus describes it and tells him plainly how—by being born of water and the Spirit. This is a perfect description of baptism! Jesus could not have given a more detailed and accurate explanation of baptism.” However, had Jesus actually wanted to say that one must be baptized to be saved, He clearly could have simply stated, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is baptized and born of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.” Further, if Jesus had made such a statement, He would have contradicted numerous other Bible passages that make it clear that salvation is by faith (John 3:16; John 3:36; Ephesians 2:8-9: Titus 3:5).

We should also not lose sight of the fact that when Jesus was speaking to Nicodemus; the ordinance of Christian Baptism was not yet in effect. This important inconsistency in interpreting Scripture is seen when one asks those who believe that baptism is required for salvation why the thief on the cross did not need to be baptized to be saved. A common reply to that question is: “The thief on the cross was still under the Old Covenant and therefore not subject to this baptism. He was saved just like anyone else under the Old Covenant.” So, in essence, the same people who say the thief did not need to be baptized because he was “under the Old Covenant” will use John 3:5 as “proof” that baptism is necessary for salvation. They insist that Jesus is telling Nicodemus that he must be baptized to be saved, even though he also was under the Old Covenant. If the thief on the cross was saved without being baptized (because he was under the Old Covenant), why would Jesus tell Nicodemus (who was also under the Old Covenant) that he needed to be baptized?

If “being born of water and the Spirit” is not referring to baptism, then what does it mean? Traditionally, there have been two primary interpretations of this phrase. The first is that being “born of water” is being used by Jesus to refer to natural birth (with water referring to the amniotic fluid that surrounds the baby in the womb) and that being born of the “Spirit” indicates spiritual birth. While that is certainly a possible interpretation of the term “born of water” and would seem to fit the context of Nicodemus’ question about how a man could be born “when he is old,” it is not, in my opinion, the best interpretation given the context of this passage. After all, Jesus was not talking about the difference between natural birth and spiritual birth. What He was doing was explaining to Nicodemus his need to be “born from above” or “born again.”

The second common interpretation of this passage and the one that I believe best fits the overall context, not only of this passage but of the Bible as a whole, is the one that sees the phrase “born of water and the Spirit” as both describing different aspects of the same spiritual birth, or of what it means to be “born again” or “born from above.” So, when Jesus told Nicodemus that he must “be born of water and the Spirit,” He was not referring to literal water (i.e. baptism or the amniotic fluid in the womb), but was referring to the need for spiritual cleansing or renewal. Throughout the Old Testament (Psalm 51:2; Psalm 51:7; Ezekiel 36:25) and the New Testament (John 13:10; John 15:3; 1 Corinthians 6:11; Hebrews 10:22), water is often used figuratively of spiritual cleansing or regeneration that is brought forth by the Holy Spirit, through the Word of God, at the moment of salvation (Ephesians 5:26; Titus 3:5).

The Barclay Daily Study Bible describes this concept in this way: “There are two thoughts here. Water is the symbol of cleansing. When Jesus takes possession of our lives, when we love Him with all our heart, the sins of the past are forgiven and forgotten. The Spirit is the symbol of power. When Jesus takes possession of our lives it is not only that the past is forgotten and forgiven; if that were all, we might well proceed to make the same mess of life all over again; but into life there enters a new power which enables us to be what by ourselves we could never be and to do what by ourselves we could never do. Water and the Spirit stand for the cleansing and the strengthening power of Christ, which wipes out the past and gives victory in the future.”

Therefore, the “water” mentioned in this verse is not literal physical water but is referring to the “living water” that Jesus promised the woman at the well in John 4:10 and the people in Jerusalem in John 7:37-39. It is the inward purification and renewal that is produced by the Holy Spirit that brings forth spiritual life to a dead sinner (Ezekiel 36:25-27; Titus 3:5). Jesus reinforces this truth in John 3:7 when He restates the fact that one must be born again, and that this newness of life can only be produced by the Holy Spirit (John 3:8).

........................
read the rest of it through the link provided
C

simple answer is that the early church and all the writings of the earliest fathers ALL, unanimously attest to the requirement of being baptised to enter the new covenant, just as to bve circumcised was to enter the Abrahamic covenant.....

Of course, we can go into a very deep study of nuances lost in understanding things from the old to the new but without the deepest nuances, the simplicity is this.... You must be baptised... it is your saying yes when Adam said no....

However, the deeper question becomes about salvation... some say it is by faith alone, the bible NOWHERE says faith alone, in fact, baptism is a requirement too. So is your act of repentance, so is love working thru faith, so is grace, can you be saved wihout grace? is grace faith? of course not.. But the protestant position of sola fede is not biblical.. A whole number of things come together but it starts with God's grace entering a dark soul which considers wehre it's at, (like the prodigal son... irresistable tulips of calvinism is heresy), and seeing this light and knowing your require God and accept his plan of salvation. Chrsit said if you love ye, you would take up your cross and follow me. WHERE? to death.. the cross you bear is taken up AFTER they arrest you, they spit on you, they scourge you, this cross we must take up each day occurs after they tear our your beard, humiliated.. AFTER all this, Chrsit did what? ONLY then, he willfully took up his cross and walked toward the mount of God and offered Himself as sacrifice... Only then is the path unto the mount of god opened to you. You must follow in Christ's path, as he commands us to.. NArrow is the way, few find it...

Our baptisn is the entering into this life... it is the beginning of fredom from the world and all that is against God... Therein, the real work of sancrtification begins whereby we are recreated, moldided into the image of His very Son....

it is discipleship and what does a disciple do? HE does, mimicks his master.... HE becomes a carbon copy of his master....










I gave the basic response to this....

However, there is another , more mystical understanding of this too... It has to do with the upper and lower waters, it has to do with your two births.. You are born of water when water gushes forth from your mothers womb and you are born. In like manner, you must also be born of the spirit, in the kingdom of God which resides in the upper waters (again, the mystical understanding of genesis 1). All tha is bablyon, is found in the lower waters, this seperation, this firmament that seperates them mystically is the great gulf seen in the parable of lasarus and the rich man....

But i wantt o keep it simple here for now. However, the verse you gave is specific to being bornof WATER of baptism and the descent of the holy spirit upon you, as we see this same pattern established with Chrsit at his baptism in the Jordan....

the other mystical concepts are related to the two births, physical and spiritual but wanted to offer this up also

One receives: salvation .... justification ... new birth ... eternal life....
----------------------------------------------------------------------

By believing in Christ (Jn 3:16; Acts 16:31)?



By repentance (Acts 2:38; 2 Pet 3:9)?



By baptism (Jn 3:5; Acts 2:38; 22:16; 1 Pet 3:21; Titus 3:5)?



By the work of the Spirit (Jn 3:5; 2 Cor 3:6)?



By declaring with our mouths (Lu 12:8; Rom 10:9)?



By coming to a knowledge of the Truth (1 Tim 2:4; Heb 10:26)?



By works (Rom 2:6, 7; James 2:21, 24-25)?



By grace (Acts 15:11; Eph 2:8)?



By his blood (Rom 5:9; Heb 9:22)?



By His righteousness (Rom 5:17; 2 Pet 1:1)?



By His cross (Eph 2:16; Col 2:14)?


I just gave you 11 different things are are told in the bible that are RESPONSIBLE for your receiving salvation... isn't it amazing, if we bother to look at the entire of the scripture, not just part of it and rather than color things in one way and then make excuses, we look at what the bible actualy says and then just accept it?

The apostolic teaching with the above 11 points above is the understanding which is ALSO how the early church fathers tauht, wrote about and how a true catholic understands salvation. WE will get into it more because we do not believe as many teach, that we are saved by or personal works, (as if man can ever be good enough) HOWEVE, what the protestant's attitude about what we believe is twisted and misunderstands the true teachings, early fathers or catholic, (whetehr east or west) We believe that our works are only a product of the grace received by God, the faith we have in being obedient, etc.... Since salvation requires all the above things, which one are we going to remove and yet, say the definition of salvation is complete. Will we remove faith? or how about grace? Some have removed baptism as not essential, yet the bible speaks of it's being essential. How about faith working thru love?

When we wear white linen rainments or garments, (as we see in the book of Revelation) what are they? The white linen garments is in fact, the "righteousness of the saints" !!! READ that again cuz I know 99% of you all missed that verse in Revelation. Go and read JAmes also for this is also what is credited to Abraham....

This is what early church fathers taught, (fathers of the church that came 1500 years before the reformation fathers).

Thought to offer up the above list. Read each one if you have a chance, look up all the passages. Find me one inspitred passage that doesn't belong, one which you can do without.... WE find that all are required.. yes, one comes after another. WE are given teh grace, grace brings faith which brings works by repenting and getting baptised, by taking up our cross. All these things are counted for us as righteousness. EVen the idea of justification is taught wrong in protestant circles, as if it is a one time event.. WE find the bible gives examples that are tot he contrary, 9and totally contrary to CAlvinism).... Justification is not a one time event but rather, it is a continual stream of events, WE find tons of passages that point to the abraham's justification at various times in his life, as much as 30 or more years apart. If the protestant understanding of justification is true, then Abraham would not have to be re-justified at a later time....

I know I just walked into the hornets nest wtih this all.

God Bless

Apostolic-Church

Great,
If I ever get aproval I may post my story...

Ofcourse I don't quite see those words born again the same anymore.

I have to get dunked in the icy stream once a month and let me tell you... it sure puts a twist on that

Born Again idiom.

Blessings
bananna

How is it that people have such a diverse idea of what Born again is and isn`t and the yet the fact remains that the consequences of not being born again is really really bad?

Really bad consequences!

Is it? I'm not "born again" myself, since I was born and raised a Christian - I've been a Presbyterian all my life, I think it's an arminian concept?

I can't remember when I accepted Christ, I just always have.

John 3:3 "Jesus answered and said unto him, "Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God."

This is a very interesting statement, and in most King James Bibles the margin reads "again" as being "from above". In Strong's Greek dictionary, # 509, the word is "Anothen", "from above". You will never understand this statement that Jesus made unless you understand what it means to be "born from above." In a later verse, it is documented that you must be "born from above", or your soul will be lost for eternity. So you see its vital for you to come through a woman unless God has chosen you not to, beings like Michael and Gabriel....

The church world has their sayings and songs that "Ye must be born again", and yet these verses they sin miss the mark, because they do not understand what it means to be "born from above" [born again]. This is part of God's plan that everyone [every soul] be born of woman, from above. For documentation we find in the Book of Jude whereby the penalty of the fallen angels is given, in as much as they left their place of habitation. Angels are to inhabit heaven, or paradise at this time, in the flesh age.

This will surely lead into a study of who chose not to be born through a woman.... Jude

Our spirits existed long before our bodies. Now we're stuck here! Lol, well, for a time. Lol.

There is no technique to being born again. To be born again is of the Spirit according to the will of God, and not men. Men cannot change their own natures into the divine. No, accepting Jesus is one thing, but being accepted is quite another. Wait rather on the Lord, and don't set out while only half-baked. Bring the whole sacrifice unto the altar and cry out to the Lord. Then see what the Lord would do,

Peace,

John

The text does not say born again because you cant be born again.... The text says born from above lets use the correct terminology here..... Loving Christ is great feeling like a new person on accepting Christ is great, but thats NOT what the bible reads... If you dont read it how is was suppose to be read you wont understand what your suppose to understand.....\

You must be born from above and good thing we all were....

John 3:5 "Jesus answered, "Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God."

"Verily, verily" is "truly, truly". Jesus is telling him that there must be two births necessary; the birth of the water and of the spirit. Many people teach that this "born of the water", means to be baptized, and this is not what is being talked about. To be born from above is to be born of the womb of your mother. Every child is born in a bag of water, in fact the normal birth is announced by the breaking of the waters with in the birthing bag. So we see in this that one must be born of woman, in innocence, and then "be born of the spirit".

Born of the spirit means to accept the Spirit of Christ. That soul choosing by free will the Spirit of Christ into their spirit. That is what the marriage of Christ is all about; to become one in Christ.

This is why most people simply do not know what being "born from above means", when they disregard what happened in the book of Genesis, and in that first earth age. They overlook all of Satan's attempts to destroy the womb of woman, and God's plan to send us His Son that we might have redemption. God intervened in Satan attempt, as He always will do. This is why the book of Jude is so important. Hope this helps.....

Yes, we certainly must be born from above- reborn spiritually in order to receive truth. This happened to me in 1999 to my shock as I had gone to church all my life before then.

Born Again:....Search for the Lord with all of your heart, mind and soul....all that is within you, as though, nothing in this world mattered, except this one thing!....if you will do this....you will find Him!...Ah! there is nothing like that first love for Him...from the time you awaken in the morning until you go to sleep, the Lord is on your mind constantly.When you see people, you see them through the eyes of Jesus......somebody give me an amen! It is impossible for you to keep your mouth shut about Him! you will shout His name to the valleys, hills, and mountains....You are keenly aware of all of His creation and are in awe!You will speak to Him, and He will answer.....He is your best Friend!......................................benny

We have all been born from above -- this means born out of a womb... To be born of spirit is believing Christ as your Lord....
But there are some who choose not to be born from above, and they choose to come to earth without being born of woman....

born out of the womb is born of water, born of the flesh

The spiritual birth is being born again, born from above (heaven) , born of the Spirit.

John

Joh 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except one be born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God!
Joh 3:6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

There are a few views in Christendom about this verse. Here is another, which is how I see it:

Jesus is talking about entering the kingdom here , so everything He is saying is relating to how to enter it. Seeing that being born in the natural is not going to get us in (flesh cannot enter) He is not talking about the physical birth here when he talks about the water. I understand it to be the water of baptism and the infilling of the Holy Spirit. We first have to die (crucified with Christ) to be born into Christ (Water) and then we have to be filled with the Holy Spirit.

Both these are necessary to enter into the kingdom.

C

Think you might have it a little backwards--Born from above is born through woman.... You were a soul/spirit that was in heaven, God put you in a womb, thats being born from above.... Born of spirit is accepting Christ...

If you stop using the term born again it will be easier for the scripture reads 'Born From Above' there no such thing as being born again...

N. are you are a Mormon or come from a Mormon background? I don't know if you are aware that you hold a Mormon belief about pre-existing spirits.

John

Many think that this is a one time happening, but Christians are constantly being born from above. We die daily and we are changed by the renewing of our minds. The spirit of Christ, without which no one can belong to God (not the Holy Spirit, but the spirit of Christ) is constantly being strengthened within us as we read the Word (partake of His flesh)
As the old man gets weaker and weaker, the new Man (Christ in us) gets stronger and stronger. That is being born from above.


Joh 3:30 He must increase, (born form above) but I must decrease. (death to self)

Hi C! Your viewpoint is a valid one. My thinking is that a human baby resides in water in the womb and must exit soon after the water breaks. Again, I see the image of the baptism as well...the need of repentance before a new birth in the Spirit. It seems to work both ways!

John

Hi John, that makes sense too.

I was just thinking about the words "born again" Some translate them "born anew" but the Greek also has the following:

G509
ἄνωθεν
anōthen
an'-o-then
From G507; from above; by analogy from the first; by implication anew: - from above, again, from the beginning (very first), the top.


From what I see how we change daily, this "from above" makes sense to me. That is how I experience it anyway. God shows me His truth, through His Word and He changes me "from above". I have not found this to be a one time experience at all like most believe.

Scriptures like this one is great to back this up with:Joh 3:31 He that cometh from above is above all: he that is of the earth is of the earth, and of the earth he speaketh: he that cometh from heaven is above all. Its great, because if Christ is in us, then He came "from above" because the Bible also says:Joh 3:27 John answered and said, A man can receive nothing, except it have been given him from heaven. (from above)

This is so exciting God is so faithful. I start answering things, and then I start learning ! What a beautiful picture of our old self being replaced by the spirit of Christ from above, every day. Amazing stuff.

2 Corinthians 4:16

16Therefore we do not lose heart. Though outwardly we are wasting away, yet inwardly we are being renewed day by day.

John

A Morman ????
Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you;

Do not be ignorant to the word!! Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations.

Do you understand this??? After Satan decided he would try to be God (and failed) God decided that all of us would be born through woman (born from above) to decide whether we would be born of spirit(accepting Christ) well not all of us

How is it that you don't know these simple truths??? It is because you do not understand the book of Genesis - then how can you discuss the latter??

Yes being born natural will get you in(not by itself) but you must be born of woman-- No hes talking about the physical birth first ------then accepting Christ.. You must do both of these things to enter the kingdom...

Do you not know what happen to the angels that choose not to be born of woman(born from above) they will not be able to enter the kingdom.... Again you must be born from above and you must accept Christ -- is this so hard??? How will you ever understand deeper truths???

Quite the perspective you got there pardner! Perhaps God can see into the past as easily as the present and future. Just a thought mind you.

John