The "serpent seed" teaching is central to the racist religious cult which generally falls under its title of "The Christian Identity Movement." Although different Christian Identity believers may have somewhat different beliefs, here is the general set of doctrines of the theology. I am not going to get into the origins of Christian identity in the British Israelite movement here, though that is interesting.

Christian identity generally teaches that Eve had sex with Satan and this led to the Fall. Some Identity leaders also teach that there was a "pre-Adamic Black race, and Cain, who was the offspring of the mating of Eve with the devil, married a woman from the pre-Adamic race.
Identity people believe that the devil's plan was to make it impossible for many to be redeemed and saved. Satan created the Serpent Seed so that intermarriage between the Serpent Seed seed and the seed of Adam - the pure white race - would result in a race of individuals who God will not redeem.

The identity people say that the Hebrew word which is Strong's Exhaustive Concordance number 5377 in Genesis 3: 13 means that the devil sexually seduced Eve. The Hebrew word is nasha, and in the King James Version it is translated as "beguiled." Even in the "Never Inspired Version, " or the NIV, nasha is translated as "deceived."

Strong's Exhaustive Concordance says nasha, number 5377, means "...lead astray i.e. (mentally), to delude, or (morally) to seduce - beguile, deceive." The Theological Wordbook of the Old Testament says Strong's 5377, nasha, means to beguile or deceive.
In Plain English, beguile or deceive does not mean to sexually seduce.

Also Paul makes a comment on the deception of Eve by Satan in I Timothy 2: 14, saying "And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression." Paul uses the Greek word epatethe, which is Strong's number 538, which is said to mean "to cheat,i.e., delude; - deceive." Again, deceive refers to a psychological, not a sexual action.

The devil deceived Eve psychologically by his "Hegelian dialectic" in saying to her in Genesis 3: 1 "Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree in the garden? When Eve said God had told them not to eat of one tree and if they did they would die, the devil again used the dialectic as a tool of deception in saying to her in verse 4-5 "Ye shall not surely die. For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil."

The linguistic foundation that the Christian Identity people use for the Serpent Seed doctrine is false - and therefore it doesn't matter what kind of elaborate doctrine structure they try to build from that, it is still false.

Several apostate Christians have taught the Serpent Seed doctrine. William Branham was one of the main leaders of the Latter Rain Movement which began in about 1946 in Canada. Branham is said to have taught that Eve's sin in the Garden of Eden (Genesis 3) was sexual in nature. According to Branham, "Eve was seduced into a sexual relationship with the serpent and became pregnant with Cain." He explained, "Here is what actually happened in the Garden of Eden. The Word says that Eve was beguiled by the serpent. She was actually seduced by the serpent. He was as close to being a human that his seed could, and did mingle with that of the woman and cause her to conceive"
William Branham taught that the Egyptian pyramids had equal revelation to the Bible. See www.tribwatch.com/lattrain.htm. He said that "Trinitarianism is of the devil." There is only one person in the Godhead, Branham said, and it is Jesus who takes on different roles. So Branham is not a good example to follow as far as doctrines are concerned.

There is a doctrine of Christian Identity which comes out of British Israelism. This is that the Ten Lost Tribes of Israel who are supposed to have become the Germanic and Celtic peoples of northern Europe and the British islands. Soon after Solomon's death the ten northern tribes separated from the tribes of Judah and Levi, and are conquered by the Assyrians in about 721 BC.

Some part of these Ten Tribes of the northern kingdom of Israel are said by the Christian Identity followers to have moved into the Caucasius mountains where somehow they had managed to retain their racial purity as the pure seed of Adam, the white race.
Therefore, the descendants of the Ten Lost Tribes are the true Remnant.

The Christian Identity myth says these descendants of the Ten Lost tribes of the northern kingdom of Israel are not Jews because the tribes of Judah and Levi, the Jews, were not part of the Ten Tribes of Israel. This is a different kind of "two house" theory. The "good" house is a race construct, who are descendants of the lost tribes of Israel, and the "bad" house are the Jews.

The Christian identity religious movement has a totally unscruptural theology. It is racist which is not New Testament theology.

Ezekiel 37: 16-19 in the metaphor of the two sticks becoming one stick predicts that the northern tribes - the house of Israel - will be joined together with the southern tribes, the house of Judah.

In Matthew 15: 24 Jesus said "I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel." But he sent his followers to look for them in Palestine - not in northern Europe. Ireland, Scotland or England.

II Chronicles 30: 1-2, 10-11 tells us that: "And Hezekiah sent to all Israel and Judah, and wrote letters also to Ephraim and Manasseh, that they should come to the house of the LORD at Jerusalem, to keep the passover unto the LORD God of Israel. For the king had taken counsel, and his princes, and all the congregation in Jerusalem, to keep the passover in the second month...So the posts passed from city to city through the country of Ephraim and Manasseh even unto Zebulun: but they laughed them to scorn, and mocked them. Nevertheless divers of Asher and Manasseh and of Zebulun humbled themselves, and came to Jerusalem."

Ephraim, Manasseh and Zebulun are tribal areas of the north where the supposed Ten Lost tribes had lived before their captivity. But at the time of King Hezekiah of the southern kingdom of Judah, some of them were in the northern area of Sumaria. Hezekiah's dates were about 715-686 BC. The northern kingdom was defeated by the Assyrians in about 721 B.C., before Hezekiah was king.

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Serpent seed doctrine is a belief based on poor biblical interpretation and superstition. It is a primary doctrinal resource for those who want to use scripture to justify racial prejudice. Serpent seed doctrine is also closely related to other erroneous beliefs such as the Christian Identity movement, and the Kenite doctrine. Like many false beliefs, it has a built-in defense mechanism; that is, anyone who disagrees with it is accused of being a son of the serpent. One of the most unfortunate problems with the serpent seed doctrine is that is so heavily relies on prejudice and warped biblical interpretation that it can be very difficult to rationally discuss.

Simply stated, serpent seed doctrine teaches that the sin of Eve was not simple disobedience, but sexual contact with the serpent, and that Cain was the son of Eve and the devil. Cain’s descendants are, according to this idea, the sons of Satan, and this includes most any race or group that the serpent-seed-believer chooses to dislike. This idea is rooted in superstitious beliefs, and is particularly popular with white supremacists and anti-Semites; the Unification Church also supports this idea. Noted false prophets and false teachers such as Arnold Murray of Shepherd’s Chapel and William Branham espoused the idea. Although an idea should not be criticized when it is wrongly applied, it is appropriate to condemn an idea when it logically leads to sin. A philosophy that teaches that some races or people are universally Satanic, like the serpent seed doctrine, is one such philosophy.

Those who support serpent seed ideas cite many passages in the Bible as proof that their idea is correct. Almost without exception, these “proofs” require an interpretation that is totally inappropriate to the context of the passage. For example, Genesis 3:13 is often cited, with the claim that the word translated “beguiled” in the King James version really meant “seduced”. Context and scholarship would disagree. Proverbs 30:20 metaphorically compares eating and sexual immorality; this is greatly overstated by the serpent-seed believer as proof that the Fall was sexual. Other passages include Jude 1:14, and the parable of the tares in Matthew chapter 13. Those who believe in the serpent seed doctrine teach that Jesus’ description of the “children of the devil” in this parable is true in a biological sense; again, only one who is trying to force this belief into the Bible will see it this way, it is not naturally read out of scripture.

There are literally dozens of places in the Bible that this false idea has been wedged into; yet every single one requires a person to believe in the serpent seed idea beforehand. Only by reading a passage and saying, “if you assume that the serpent seed doctrine is true, then this means…” can a person support this false philosophy. For this reason, arguing against the serpent seed doctrine can be difficult. Those who believe it interpret scripture through a sort of “serpent seed lens”, and are not likely to accept other interpretations, no matter how well supported by context and scholarship.

There are some basic questions and contradictions inherent to the serpent seed doctrine that can be used to demonstrate its lack of truth. For example, Galatians 3:28 clearly states that race and gender have no impact on our standing with God. 2 Peter 3:9 says that God wants everyone to be saved, not “everyone but the children of Cain.” Nowhere in scripture is anyone identified as a “Kenite,” or condemned based on being from Cain’s lineage. Never are we warned about such people by the New Testament writers. Also, there is the question of how or why such persons survived the flood. The doctrine supposes that original sin was sexual, but cannot explain why the whole remainder of the Bible lays out a worldview where the original sin was disobedience, not sexuality.

This philosophy is most unfortunate in that it leads directly and logically to two main problems. Racism is by far the worst; believing that certain races are irredeemable has no positive application. The only possible outcome of such a worldview is prejudice and bigotry. There is also a tendency to blow off critics of the serpent seed doctrine as being the very “Kenites” the philosophy believes in. Arnold Murray is particularly guilty of this abuse. Fortunately for believers, God has given us a resource in scripture that can show us the truth. We need only read it with unbiased and open eyes to find true wisdom.

Here are some of the doctrinal statements directly taken from a Christian Identity Ministry: http://www.kingidentity.com/doctrine.htm

WE BELIEVE the entire Bible, both Old and New Testaments, as originally inspired, to be the inerrant, supreme, revealed Word of God. The history, covenants, and prophecy of this Holy Book were written for and about a specific elect family of people who are children of YHVH God (Luke 3:38; Psalm 82:6) through the seedline of Adam (Gen . 5.1). All scripture is written as a doctrinal standard for our exhortation, admonition, correction, instruction and example; the whole counsel to be believed, taught and followed (II Tim. 3:16. Acts. 20:27).

WE BELIEVE the White, Anglo-Saxon, Germanic and kindred people to be God's true, literal Children of Israel. Only this race fulfills every detail of Biblical Prophecy and World History concerning Israel and continues in these latter days to be heirs and possessors of the Covenants, Prophecies, Promises and Blessings YHVH God made to Israel. This chosen seedline making up the "Christian Nations" (Gen. 35:11; Isa. 62:2; Acts 11:26) of the earth stands far superior to all other peoples in their call as God's servant race (Isa. 41:8, 44:21; Luke 1:54). Only these descendants of the 12 tribes of Israel scattered abroad (James 1:1; Deut. 4:27; Jer. 31:10; John 11:52) have carried God's Word, the Bible, throughout the world (Gen. 28:14; Isa. 43:10-12, 59:21), have used His Laws in the establishment of their civil governments and are the "Christians" opposed by the Satanic Anti-Christ forces of this world who do not recognize the true and living God (John 5:23, 8:19, 16:2-3).

WE BELIEVE in an existing being known as the Devil or Satan and called the Serpent (Gen. 3:1; Rev. 12:9), who has a literal "seed" or posterity in the earth (Gen. 3:15) commonly called Jews today (Rev. 2:9; 3:9; Isa. 65:15). These children of Satan (John 8:44-47; Matt. 13:38; John 8:23) through Cain (I John 2:22, 4:3) who have throughout history always been a curse to true Israel, the Children of God, because of a natural enmity between the two races (Gen. 3:15), because they do the works of their father the Devil (John 8:38-44), and because they please not God, and are contrary to all men (I Thes. 2:14-15), though they often pose as ministers of righteousness (II Cor. 11:13-15). The ultimate end of this evil race whose hands bear the blood of our Savior (Matt. 27:25) and all the righteous slain upon the earth (Matt. 23:35), is Divine judgment (Matt. 13:38-42, 15:13; Zech. 14:21).

WE BELIEVE that the Man Adam (a Hebrew word meaning: ruddy, to show Blood, flush, turn rosy) is father of the White Race only. As a son of God (Luke 3:38), made in His likeness (Gen. 5:1), Adam and his descendants, who are also the children of God (Psalm 82:6; Hos. 1:10; Rom. 8:16; Gal. 4:6; I John 3:1-2), can know YHVH God as their creator. Adamic man is made trichotomous, that is, not only of body and soul, but having an implanted spirit (Gen. 2:7; I Thes. 5:23; Heb. 4:12) giving him a higher form of consciousness and distinguishing him from all the other races of the earth (Deut. 7:6, 10:15; Amos 3:2).

WE BELIEVE that as a chosen race, elected by God (Deut. 7:6, 10:15; I Peter 2:9), we are not to be partakers of the wickedness of this world system (I John 2:15; James 4:4; John 17/9, 15, 16), but are called to come out and be a separated people (II Cor. 6:17; Rev. 18:4; Jer. 51:6; Exodus 33:16; Lev. 20:24). This includes segregation from all non-white races, who are prohibited in God's natural divine order from ruling over Israel (Deut. 17:15, 28:13, 32:8; Joel 2:17; Isa. 13:14; Gen. 1:25-26; Rom. 9:21). Race-mixing is an abomination in the sight of Almighty God, a satanic attempt meant to destroy the chosen seedline, and is strictly forbidden by His commandments (Exo. 34:14-16; Num. 25:1-13; I Cor. 10:8/ Rev. 2:14; Deut. 7:3-4; Joshua 23:12-13; I Kings 11:1-3; Ezra 9:2, 10-12; 10:10-14; Neh. 10:28-30, 13;3, 27; Hosea 5;7; Mal. 2:11-12).

WE BELIEVE that the United States of America fulfills the prophesied (II Sam. 7:10; Isa. 11:12; Ezek. 36:24) place where Christians from all the tribes of Israel would be regathered. It is here in this blessed land (Deut. 15.6, 28:11, 33:13-17) that God made a small one a strong nation (Isa. 60:22), feeding His people with knowledge and understanding through Christian pastors (Jer. 3:14-15) who have carried the light of truth and blessings unto the nations of the earth (Isa. 49:6, 2:2-3; Gen. 12:3). North America is the wilderness (Hosea 2:14) to which God brought the dispersed seed of israel, the land between tow seas (Zech. 9:10), surveyed and divided by rivers (Isa. 18:1-2,7), where springs of water and streams break out and the desert blossoms as the rose (Isa. 35:1,6-7).

Eliyahu, you have been scarred by your racist "past" history. Not everyone feels that way as we have not experienced what you have. There is no racism involved except in the mind of the beholder. There are races...it is obvious. As God was the creator of all races are you saying He was a racist?


Your post is full of mistruths and misconceptions. If you wish we can discuss them...if not, then just allow them to stand but they are wrong. One that I will correct here and now is....."believing that certain races are irredeemable has no positive application." First, stay away from the KKK and their twisting of God's Word. Read it yourself. No where is it stated that a certain race is irredeemable. Christ died for everyone that will believe in Him....EVERYONE and that would include a son of Cain that believes in Christ. The Kenites, sons of Cain, are not one race. They are intermixed in all races so being a racist and stopping them from finding salvation on that basis is an impossibility.

I have never personally believed in anything like the serpent seed doctrine, so I am not scarred by my racist past.

All of the info I posted was taken from the research of others. I did not write any of it.

A simple Google search of "serpent seed doctrine" will uncover numerous sources of info which all state generallly the same things that I posted, unless they are Serpent Seed adherant's websites (which are few in compaarison). The truth hurts. Which group is the source of your indoctrination WW? Why don't you tell us?

There are absolutely no mistruths and misconceptions in my posts. Show me and the rest of the Christian world which cries out against the serpent seed/ Kenite doctrines.

you are on point brother eliyahu,

if you ask these false teachers some simple questions like

who are the gentiles?

who are the daughters of babylon?

why is Paul the apostle to the gentiles?

are the corithians, romans, galatians, and philipians gentiles,?

what is meant by Jesus statement below?

Lk 21:24 And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.

or Jeremiah statement


Jer 4:7 The lion is come up from his thicket, and the destroyer of the Gentiles is on his way; he is gone forth from his place to make thy land desolate; and thy cities shall be laid waste, without an inhabitant.


would they know?

I have already read those post long before you ever joined this forum, you cannot just post things and say we believe what you posted....

Why dont you try addressing individual points.... heres 1 ---Are you saying Christ was not ruddy?

I understand that it was the research of others but it is still not correct, or the truths have been so corrupted as to make them ridiculous.


What I have written has been taken from no place except the Word of God. Please note that it is completely scriptural as opposed to much of what you have posted. If you choose to ignore His Word then it is your choice. If it was me, as I have done, I would first see if it held any validity before agreeing or disagreeing...especially as it is taken strictly from the WORD OF GOD!

Okay, let's take your first paragraph: WE BELIEVE the entire Bible, both Old and New Testaments, as originally inspired, to be the inerrant, supreme, revealed Word of God. The history, covenants, and prophecy of this Holy Book were written for and about a specific elect family of people who are children of YHVH God (Luke 3:38; Psalm 82:6) through the seedline of Adam (Gen . 5.1). All scripture is written as a doctrinal standard for our exhortation, admonition, correction, instruction and example; the whole counsel to be believed, taught and followed (II Tim. 3:16. Acts. 20:27).


I also "believe the entire Bible....both Old and New Testaments" as I'm sure you do. No, they were not written for a specific group of people...nowhere is that written. The two scriptures the writer gives have nothing to do with his statement....one must read for oneself to understand!

Yes,....All scripture is written as a doctrinal standard for our exhortation, admonition, correction, instruction and example; the whole counsel to be believed, taught and followed . Why do I say yes...because IT IS WRITTEN!


What else would you like to discuss?

That point which you countered is a specific point of Doctrine for that sect of Christian Identity. You are correct in your crtique of it. We agree.

I put that second post up just for your information as to what all the groups who esteem the serpent seed doctrine believe.

I'm not a false teacher but would still be happy to answer your questions: The "Gentiles" are, as specified in Strong's....

Gentile (Hebrew) #1471 ~ boy; appar. from the same root as 1465 (in the sense of massing); a foreign nation; hence, a Gentile; also (fig.) a troop of animals, or a flight of locusts: - Gentile, heathen, nation, people

Gentile (Greek) #1482 ~ ethnikos national (ethnic), i.e. a Gentile - heathen (man)

To answer your question....gentiles are ethnic people or of a heathen nation .





I have no scripture for that but to me.....anyone that believes in false religion.




Because Christ sent His disciples to...[Matthew 10:6] But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. And because He Himself was sent for them....[Matthew 15:24] But He answered and said, "I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel." The house of Israel...not the house of Judah.


Then....in comes Paul.






Paul was sent to the gentiles and he taught them....does that answer you?





The "Gentiles" are presently trodding down Jerusalem. When their time is up, when Christ returns....their time is over!





Gentiles as used there is...nations. The "lion" there is Satan and he is the destroyer. Why? Because the gentiles, especially those presently in Jerusalem believe in him.

How about answering this one first.

Christian identity generally teaches that Eve had sex with Satan and this led to the Fall. Some Identity leaders also teach that there was a "pre-Adamic Black race, and Cain, who was the offspring of the mating of Eve with the devil, married a woman from the pre-Adamic race.
Identity people believe that the devil's plan was to make it impossible for many to be redeemed and saved. Satan created the Serpent Seed so that intermarriage between the Serpent Seed seed and the seed of Adam - the pure white race - would result in a race of individuals who God will not redeem.

The identity people say that the Hebrew word which is Strong's Exhaustive Concordance number 5377 in Genesis 3: 13 means that the devil sexually seduced Eve. The Hebrew word is nasha, and in the King James Version it is translated as "beguiled." Even in the "Never Inspired Version, " or the NIV, nasha is translated as "deceived."

Strong's Exhaustive Concordance says nasha, number 5377, means "...lead astray i.e. (mentally), to delude, or (morally) to seduce - beguile, deceive." The Theological Wordbook of the Old Testament says Strong's 5377, nasha, means to beguile or deceive.
In Plain English, beguile or deceive does not mean to sexually seduce.

Also Paul makes a comment on the deception of Eve by Satan in I Timothy 2: 14, saying "And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression." Paul uses the Greek word epatethe, which is Strong's number 538, which is said to mean "to cheat,i.e., delude; - deceive." Again, deceive refers to a psychological, not a sexual action.

The devil deceived Eve psychologically by his "Hegelian dialectic" in saying to her in Genesis 3: 1 "Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree in the garden? When Eve said God had told them not to eat of one tree and if they did they would die, the devil again used the dialectic as a tool of deception in saying to her in verse 4-5 "Ye shall not surely die. For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil."

The linguistic foundation that the Christian Identity people use for the Serpent Seed doctrine is false - and therefore it doesn't matter what kind of elaborate doctrine structure they try to build from that, it is still false.

Okay, then let's take another:





I have NEVER read about a "pre-Adamic Black race." Ever!


Eve did have sex with Satan...it is written. It didn't lead to the fall...it was their fall. Not the fall of Satan but the fall of man. Satan had already fallen long, long before his escapade in the garden.

There were humans before the formation of Adam...it is written. Those are the races...all the races and all means all....white included. Cain was the offspring of Satan for...it is written:


John 8:44 Ye are of YOUR FATHER THE DEVIL, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

Who was the "first murderer" and a "liar"? Both Cain and Satan. Cain murdered his brother Able and lied to God about it. Satan murders the soul of anyone that allows it and lied to Eve.


Cain, in all probability, married someone other than his sister and that would be have to be someone of the pre-Adamic race. No where is it written what race that woman is. Their children are Kenites:

Kenite # 7014 ~ Qayin, the same as 7013 (with a play upon the affinity to 7069); Kajin, the name of the first child, also of a place in Pal., and of an Oriental tribe: - Cain, Kenite

The reason Satan mated with Eve, and the fallen angels mated with the daughters of Adam was for one purpose....to stop the pure Adamic line to Christ. Not so God would not redeem someone but that the Redeemer would not be born.



I just noticed you have posted something similar to this....I'll go ahead and post this and see if there is anything else.

Whoa..... A big YAHOO first. I just noticed I passed post 2000.






I just covered that one in the preceeding post.





In the Greek beguiled is #1818 ~ exapatao - to seduce wholly - beguile, deceive.

That, to me, tells me it is more than deception but I can understand your reluctance to accept that. When taken as a whole...using all of the references to the Garden event a very, very clear picture is formed:


1. Neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die.....Touch, to lay the hand upon (for any purpose); euphem. TO LIE WITH A WOMAN.

2. The serpent beguiled me and I did eat:....Beguiled, to seduce, expatao - to seduce wholly.

3. Ye are of your father the devil.

4. And I will put enmity between thee and the woman and between thy seed and her Seed.

5. Not as Cain, who was of that wicked one.

6. Ye do the deeds of your father.

7. Matthew 13:38 The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one; 39. The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels.

Seed #4690 ~ sperma; from 4687; something sown, i.e. seed (inclu. the male "sperm"); by impl. offspring, spec. a remant (fig as if kept over for planting): issue, seed.

Taking all of those into account I see that when "beguiled" is used it is not spiritual deception!





She was deceived...both with his lie and with his (Satan's) action...it was sexual.





I disagree. It is obviously sexual. Satan and Eve had Cain.

John 8:44 Ye are of YOUR FATHER THE DEVIL, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

isn't john a NT? Why does NT have reference to OT?

If someone tell me that my father is the devil, I'll just think that they say that my work or unpure thoughts are like the devil. I am doing the devil's work and not god's work if that is the case but I was not born, coming from the line of this devil.

"and the lusts of your father ye will do" <<--- see? it shows there that I'm doing the work of my father (spiritually speaking) the devil or the devil's work.

You just can't cherry pick the bible and slapping verses here and there to make it into a new bible and a new doctrine to fit man's unlimited wants and needs.

In the Greek beguiled is #1818 ~ exapatao - to seduce wholly - beguile, deceive.

can you also look up for the word Temptation? See how it so closely related perhaps?

I trust you are kidding Bible Scholar.






I hardly "cherry pick" or "slap verses" here and there. If you wish to believe that is is all spiritual after all the scripture given, then....so be it.

Okay, and what does Seed tell you?


Matthew 13:38 The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one; 39. The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels.

Seed #4690 ~ sperma; from 4687; something sown, i.e. seed (inclu. the male "sperm"); by impl. offspring, spec. a remant (fig as if kept over for planting): issue, seed.

Now your specific beliefs are less cloudy. I posted the Christian Identity movements general beliefs. Are you an adherant to any of tha group's sect's teachings?

Also, if ALL races came from people before Adam, what race was Adam's? Was he an alien or something? Seriously.

Also, instead of saying "it is written," please just quote what is written. My whole argument is that your teachings are not written. So it will be much better to just give me what is actually written.
Where do you get that Cain's children were called Kenites? You gave me the Hebrew word, yes. But where does the Bible clearly state what you are teaching- that the Kenites are the descendants of Cain?

to stop the pure Adamic line to Christ.
Where is this written?

(1.) He that sows the good seed is the Son of man. Jesus Christ is the Lord of the field, the Lord of the harvest, the Sower of good seed. When he ascended on high, he gave gifts to the world; not only good ministers, but other good men. Note, Whatever good seed there is in the world, it all comes from the hand of Christ, and is of his sowing: truths preached, graces planted, souls sanctified, are good seed, and all owing to Christ. Ministers are instruments in Christ's hand to sow good seed; are employed by him and under him, and the success of their labours depends purely upon his blessing; so that it may well be said, It is Christ, and no other, that sows the good seed; he is the Son of man, one of us, that his terror might not make us afraid; the Son of man, the Mediator, and that has authority.

(2.) The field is the world; the world of mankind, a large field, capable of bringing forth good fruit; the more is it to be lamented that it brings forth so much bad fruit: the world here is the visible church, scattered all the world over, not confined to one nation. Observe, In the parable it is called his field; the world is Christ's field, for all things are delivered unto him of the Father: whatever power and interest the devil has in the world, it is usurped and unjust; when Christ comes to take possession, he comes whose right it is; it is his field, and because it is his he took care to sow it with good seed.

(3.) The good seed are the children of the kingdom, true saints. They are, [1.] The children of the kingdom; not in profession only, as the Jews were (ch. 8:12), but in sincerity; Jews inwardly, Israelites indeed, incorporated in faith and obedience to Jesus Christ the great King of the church. [2.] They are the good seed, precious as seed, Ps. 126:6. The seed is the substance of the field; so the holy seed, Isa. 6:13. The seed is scattered, so are the saints; dispersed, here one and there another, though in some places thicker sown than in others. The seed is that from which fruit is expected; what fruit of honour and service God has from this world he has from the saints, whom he has sown unto himself in the earth, Hos. 2:23.

(4.) The tares are the children of the wicked one. Here is the character of sinners, hypocrites, and all profane and wicked people. [1.] They are the children of the devil, as a wicked one. Though they do not own his name, yet they bear his image, do his lusts, and from him they have their education; he rules over them, he works in them, Eph. 2:2; Jn. 8:44. [2.] They are tares in the field of this world; they do no good, they do hurt; unprofitable in themselves, and hurtful to the good seed, both by temptation and persecution: they are weeds in the garden, have the same rain, and sunshine, and soil, with the good plants, but are good for nothing: the tares are among the wheat. Note, God has so ordered it, that good and bad should be mixed together in this world, that the good may be exercised, the bad left inexcusable, and a difference made between earth and heaven.

(5.) The enemy that sowed the tares is the devil; a sworn enemy to Christ and all that is good, to the glory of the good God, and the comfort and happiness of all good men. He is an enemy to the field of the world, which he endeavours to make his own, by sowing his tares in it. Ever since he became a wicked spirit himself, he has been industrious to promote wickedness, and has made it his business, aiming therein to counterwork Christ.

Now concerning the sowing of the tares, observe in the parable,

[1.] That they were sown while men slept. Magistrates slept, who by their power, ministers slept, who by their preaching, should have prevented this mischief. Note, Satan watches all opportunities, and lays hold of all advantages, to propagate vice and profaneness. The prejudice he does to particular persons is when reason and conscience sleep, when they are off their guard; we have therefore need to be sober, and vigilant. It was in the night, for that is the sleeping time. Note, Satan rules in the darkness of this world; that gives him an opportunity to sow tares, Ps. 104:20. It was while men slept; and there is no remedy but men must have some sleeping time. Note, It is as impossible for us to prevent hypocrites being in the church, as it is for the husbandman, when he is asleep, to hinder an enemy from spoiling his field.

[2.] The enemy, when he had sown the tares, went his way (v. 25), that it might not be known who did it. Note, When Satan is doing the greatest mischief, he studies most to conceal himself; for his design is in danger of being spoiled if he be seen in it; and therefore, when he comes to sow tares, he transforms himself into an angel of light, 2 Co. 11:13, 14. He went his way, as if he had done no harm; such is the way of the adulterous woman, Prov. 30:20. Observe, Such is the proneness of fallen man to sin, that if the enemy sow the tares, he may even go his way, they will spring up of themselves and do hurt; whereas, when good seed is sown, it must be tended, watered, and fenced, or it will come to nothing.

[3.] The tares appeared not till the blade sprung up, and brought forth fruit, v. 26. There is a great deal of secret wickedness in the hearts of men, which is long hid under the cloak of a plausible profession, but breaks out at last. As the good seed, so the tares, lie a great while under the clods, and at first springing up, it is hard to distinguish them; but when a trying time comes, when fruit is to be brought forth, when good is to be done that has difficulty and hazard attending it, then you will return and discern between the sincere and the hypocrite: then you may say, This is wheat, and that is tares.

[4.] The servants, when they were aware of it, complained to their master (v. 27); Sir, didst thou not sow good seed in thy field? No doubt he did; whatever is amiss in the church, we are sure it is not of Christ: considering the seed which Christ sows, we may well ask, with wonder, Whence should these tares come? Note, The rise of errors, the breaking out of scandals, and the growth of profaneness, are matter of great grief to all the servants of Christ; especially to his faithful ministers, who are directed to complain of it to him whose the field is. It is sad to see such tares, such weeds, in the garden of the Lord; to see the good soil wasted, the good seed choked, and such a reflection cast on the name and honour of Christ, as if his field were no better than the field of the slothful, all grown over with thorns.

[5.] The Master was soon aware whence it was (v. 28); An enemy has done this. He does not lay the blame upon the servants; they could not help it, but had done what was in their power to prevent it. Note, The ministers of Christ, that are faithful and diligent, shall not be judged of Christ, and therefore should not be reproached by men, for the mixtures of bad with good, hypocrites with the sincere, in the field of the church. It must needs be that such offences will come; and they shall not be laid to our charge, if we do our duty, though it have not the desired success. Though they sleep, if they do not love sleep; though tares be sown, if they do not sow them nor water them, nor allow of them, the blame shall not lie at their door.

[6.] The servants were very forward to have these tares rooted up. "Wilt thou that we go and do it presently?" Note, The over-hasty and inconsiderate zeal of Christ's servants, before they have consulted with their Master, is sometimes ready, with the hazard of the church, to root out all that they presume to be tares: Lord, wilt thou that we call for fire from heaven?

[7.] The Master very wisely prevented this (v. 29); Nay, lest while ye gather up the tares, ye root up also the wheat with them. Note, It is not possible for any man infallibly to distinguish between tares and wheat, but he may be mistaken; and therefore such is the wisdom and grace of Christ, that he will rather permit the tares, than any way endanger the wheat. It is certain, scandalous offenders are to be censured, and we are to withdraw from them; those who are openly the children of the wicked one, are not to be admitted to special ordinances; yet it is possible there may be a discipline, either so mistaken in its rules, or so over-nice in the application of them, as may prove vexatious to many that are truly godly and conscientious. Great caution and moderation must be used in inflicting and continuing church censures, lest the wheat be trodden down, if not plucked up. The wisdom from above, as it is pure, so it is peaceable, and those who oppose themselves must not be cut off, but instructed, and with meekness, 2 Tim. 2:25. The tares, if continued under the means of grace, may become good corn; therefore have patience with them.

(6.) The harvest is the end of the world, v. 39. This world will have an end; though it continue long, it will not continue always; time will shortly be swallowed up in eternity. At the end of the world, there will be a great harvest-day, a day of judgment; at harvest all is ripe and ready to be cut down: both good and bad are ripe at the great-day, Rev. 6:11. It is the harvest of the earth, Rev. 14:15. At harvest the reapers cut down all before them; not a field, not a corner, is left behind; so at the great day all must be judged (Rev. 20:12, 13); God has set a harvest (Hos. 6:11), and it shall not fail, Gen. 8:22. At harvest every man reaps as he sowed; every man's ground, and seed, and skill, and industry, will be manifested: see Gal. 6:7, 8. Then they who sowed precious seed, will come again with rejoicing (Ps. 126:5, 6), with the joy of harvest (Isa. 9:3); when the sluggard, who would not plough by reason of cold, shall beg, and have nothing (Prov. 20:4); shall cry, Lord, Lord, but in vain; when the harvest of those who sowed to the flesh, shall be a day of grief, and of desperate sorrow, Isa. 17:11.

(7.) The reapers are the angels: they shall be employed, in the great day, in executing Christ's righteous sentences, both of approbation and condemnation, as ministers of his justice, ch. 25:31. The angels are skilful, strong, and swift, obedient servants to Christ, holy enemies to the wicked, and faithful friends to all the saints, and therefore fit to be thus employed. He that reapeth receiveth wages, and the angels will not be unpaid for their attendance; for he that soweth, and he that reapeth, shall rejoice together (Jn. 4:36); that is joy in heaven in the presence of the angels of God.

http://www.biblebrowser.com/matthew/13-38.htm

this is the answer Christ gave:

37He answered and said unto them, He that soweth the good seed is the Son of man;

38The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one;

39The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels.

40As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world.

41The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;

42And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.

Satan put his seed(sperm) in Eve,,,so when she a had childern a tare(cain) came out of her instead of pure wheat(abel)
The question was should the angels destroy the tares(kenites) No they will be destoyed at the end of the age. unless you kill some of the wheat trying to kill the tares..

simple no

The seeds in the above parable are the sons of the kingdom and the sons of the wicked one. That is as far as you can take it. WHo cares if the word seed and the word sperm are the same? That proves nothing.

The parable is about wheat and tares, not literal people and sperm!

So let me understand: If the devil sowed his seed , what does this scripture say?

Good point!

It means that the devil has a message of lies that he has "sown" into the hearts of unbelievers. This is in contrast to the message of the gospel sown into the hearts of believers by Jesus.

Good observation.

If we read this scripture correctly , it bombs the sexual doctrine out of the water.

Why?

Because the children of the Kingdom................THEY are the "sperma"

Matthew 13:38 The field is the world; the good seed are [b]the children of the kingdom;

You see, WE go into the world and we are like "sperma" we reproduce Christ in people. (making disciples of all )

How

Through the WORD, that falls like seed into their hears and bring forth Christ: thirty,, sixty or a hundred fold.

????the tares are the children of the wicked one;

39The enemy that sowed them is the devil; do you know what seed means???

Through the WORD, that falls like seed into their hears and bring forth Christ: thirty,, sixty or a hundred fold.

where does the parable say this???? it doesnt thats your mind creating that thought....

Why change the word---- seed means sperm --so the word fell like sperm into the hears uh???

I don’t see any Racism at all in the Serpent Seed teaching...GOD created all Races on the 6th Day accept for one and it was very good. Then the account of Adam & eve came about on the 8th day of completion of the creation 8 means completion in Biblical Numerics.

Cain went off to the land of nod and met his wife a member of another race from the 6th day creation, this make much more sense than the fairy tale about him marrying a cousin.

First of all Jesus said Learn the Parable of the fig tree, it has more to do with than just what is commonly taught today, Adam & Eve used The Fig Leaves to try to cover up where they Sinned.

Second Why is it so hard to see Who the Tree of Knowledge of good & evil? It is satan.
Just as Jesus is The Tree of Life..

The seed line to JESUS was Not from cain he was of his father satan, this was the first attempt at destroying the seed line to JESUS by satan , cain Murdered Able out of jealousy and thus doing the work of satan, the next attempt by satan is laid out very well in Gen ch6, angels mixing with humans and having giant offspring that defiled the land and everything....
Remember Angels Food "Manna" was used to sustain the Israelites in the wilderness, this was possible because the angels makeup and human was similar, the future "Spiritual Body" we all will have after 1st Corinthians ch15 v52 happens will Not Need Food!

Remember there are 3 World Ages spoken of In 1st or 2ond Peter and the first world age Angels were so close in makeup to flesh that they required food and had the ability to reproduce.

The fairy tale about an apple being the forbidden fruit is destructive and causes a major stumbling block for Christians, JESUS said in the end times it will as it was in the days of Noah....and if you don’t understand the parable of the fig tree and the beginning you will never understand the end of days.

JESUS said Learn the Parable of the fig tree and know it.

If anything this doctrine sheds light on why things are the way they are and gives much needed understanding that glorify The LORDS creation we were ALL Created Equal and have our own heritage to be proud of because HE GOD said he created us and it was GOOD!!

satan is attempting to take away the truth by fooling Christians about the begining so they will be fooled by his coming in Jesuses place in the end times to "rapture" the church...........The one taken from the field in Matt 24 is taken out of season verse 20 "pray ye that your flight be not in the winter" and is married to the wrong messiah.........thus being harvested Out Of Season!!!! How clear can it be! ?

The spirit of slumber is everywhere right now and I pray for my fellow believers to wake up

Isa 5:7 For the garden of Jehovah of hosts is the house of Israel, and the men of Judah his pleasant plant: and he looked for justice, but, behold, oppression; for righteousness, but, behold, a cry.

Gen 2:8 And Jehovah God planted a garden eastward, in Eden; and there he put the man whom he had formed.
Gen 2:9 And out of the ground made Jehovah God to grow every tree that is pleasant to the sight, and good for food; the tree of life also in the midst of the garden, and the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.


Gen 49:22 Joseph is a fruitful bough, even a fruitful bough by a well; whose branches run over the wall:

Joh 15:5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same beareth much fruit: for apart from me ye can do nothing.

Rev 11:3 And I will give unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.
Rev 11:4 These are the two olive trees and the two candlesticks, standing before the Lord of the earth.

Lot's of treeeeeeeeeeeees lol

I see tree people!

Since we assume hidden meanings into scriptures around here, I guess I am forever condemned as a Kenite. I will never believe this unless it is clearly written in scripture, not drawn out of double meanings in parables. God's word doesn't work like that. Jesus even explained most of the parables. None of your explainations fit with Jesus' explainations. Everything you rely on is either hidden meanings to parables, making the plain text of Genesis to be a prabale with no scriptures to validate it, double meanings to words like "seed" when no double meanings like you suggest are implied, etc, etc.

I want to know one thing:

Where are you getting this information?

Do not say "The Bible." Be open and honest. Tell me if it is Arnold Murray or who, please.

Did Nightmare get a new computer?

There is absolutely no reason to connect any of these scriptures in the way that you are attempting to do. Think about it for a second. Just try and connect anything in your post. There is nothing connecting them.

Again,

Who is teaching you guys this? Stop hiding it.

does kinda sound like somehting I would say, but with better spelling.....

I used to believe a lot of things in the bible that turned out wrong. I thought the great star in Rev 8:10 was a meteor that poisoned literal water, that new Jerusalem was a literal giant city coming out of the sky, that the two witnesses were only two people, but, the HS shows us the truth, and, only the HS. And I used to think that Adam and Eve ate a literal apple in the garden, but, the HS showed, hmmm, something did happen in the garden, and, it's not what we think, lol.

Joh 15:5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same beareth much fruit: for apart from me ye can do nothing.
Joh 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, and the truth, and the life: no one cometh unto the Father, but by me.

Tree of life, or, vine of life if you will, lol



Joh 16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he shall guide you into all the truth:

I should add, I don't know how it all works out, or, worked out, lol. Sometimes when He tells you something, it raises more questions than it does answers, lol. But, I'll go with what He (The Spirit) says. Even though speculating can be fun sometimes, lol. But, He's the interpreter, and... that's it.

I am new here and Like what I see ...

This place has good people with one main thing in common, we all Know JESUS YAHSHUA is Lord and Savior !

Though we may differ on these issues I hold strong to my Belief in this doctrine and yes back in 1988 when I put up my 10 foot dish I was first exposed to Pastor Arnold Murray at the Shepherd’s Chapel....

Ever read the statement of faith from that church? there are 3 pages here is page 3...


We believe the seventh trump sounds after the tribulation (Matthew 24: 29-31). Paul wrote his second letter to the Thessalonians because he knew the first had been misunderstood, concerning Christ's second return. Paul then gives two signs which will be present when the Day of the Lord comes. Those signs being the apostasy and the man of lawlessness. Neither of these signs were present at that time.

Apostasy means giving up or renouncing of one's professed principles, or faith. This will come to pass when the religious lamb (false messiah) of Revelation 13:11 comes to pass. He will look like the Lamb of God, but his voice is of the dragon, for he is the great dragon, that old serpent, called the Devil and Satan (Revelation 12:9). When the false christ stands in the holy place performing in the sight of Christians, the pretribulation-rapture-Christian shall think it is Christ coming to rapture them away. It is the duty of the elect to stand and witness in the synagogues, allowing the Holy Spirit to give His Message to the world through you. (Mark 13:9).



Christ is your spiritual Husband. You should remain a spiritual virgin until He returns (II Corinthians 11:2). For Christ Himself said; "Woe to them that are with child in those days!" (Mark 13:17). If your spiritual Husband has been on a long journey and finds you with child when He returns, then you have been impregnated (deceived) with the mark of the false messiah, and worshipped Satan in the last hour. Study God's Word.

To be honest would be saying the bible... But I study with anyone who speaks truth...

Where did you get this teaching?

I used to believe all those things in Revelation to be literal. The I learned about exegesis. Obviously all of you serpent seed people haven't. No, I am not calling you a Kenite, LOL.

Revelation is Apocolyptic literature. It is supposed to be understood as a highly symbolical vision. But Genesis is historical narrative. There is no reason to take any of it as symbolical code language.

Where did you get this teaching?

Joh 16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he shall guide you into all the truth:

1Jn 2:27 And as for you, the anointing which ye received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any one teach you; but as his anointing teacheth you; concerning all things, and is true, and is no lie, and even as it taught you, ye abide in him.


I get everything I believe from the HS. He's changed my mind more than a few times, lol. Those verses are literal. The HS speaks to you, shows you pictures (word of knowledge), causes you to understand. When it is the HS you know beyond any shadow of a doubt that it is Him. Because it's Him, and, we recognize his voice as He said we would. Everything has to do with Him, The Holy Spirit is the teacher, we ask God, and, He shows us via the HS.

Oops, I forgot to add, Eliyahu, have you been baptized in the Holy Spirit? It's a step outside of accepting and believing in Jesus. Usually done by the laying on of hands of others (church leaders) who have the Holy Spirit where the Spirit imparts to you. This isn't a belittling question, just asking cause I don't know. After baptism in the HS people should see changes, such as, they will have a gift or more than one of the Spirit etc.

Were not serpent seed people were christians --- Do we call you "magical talking snake dude" ok then; we just believe different things.... the truth is there---- and I use to believe what you believe now, but its not the word of God....

Brother whirlwind

I never said you are a false teacher, how would I know that you are oneunless you by into the christian Identity nonsense..

According to the bible a gentiles is the son's of Japheth

Gen10v1: Now these are the generations of the sons of Noah, Shem, Ham, and Japheth: and unto them were sons born after the flood.
2: The sons of Japheth; Gomer, and Magog, and Madai, and Javan, and Tubal, and Meshech, and Tiras.
3: And the sons of Gomer; Ashkenaz, and Riphath, and Togarmah.
4: And the sons of Javan; Elishah, and Tarshish, Kittim, and Dodanim.
5: By these were the isles of the Gentiles divided in their lands; every one after his tongue, after their families, in their nations.

research those nations, families and tongues and you found the current daughters of Babylon the great.

the gentiles are the son's of Japheth is is a son of Noah

gentiles cannot be the son's ofHam
gentiles cannot be the son's of Shem

gentiles cannot be any nation.

the bible tell us who the gentiles are.

God wrote who the gentiles are

Serpent's seed doctrine is false teaching

It is a form of replacement theology

It is racially biased

Both Herbert Armstrong and Arnold Murray among others spread this aberrant teaching

The Bible does not support it in any way

It will totally warp the understanding of the scriptures for any who buy into it

Readers need to check out the research on the internet about these two false teachers

just like anything else, please keep an open minded about these issues. It is good to know but believing it is another story.

Hard to swallow this serpent seed doctrine but it is a good for a case discussion. I'm luving it.

God bless you all for being so smart to know how to use the bible and milking it.

QUOTE (Stephen @ Jun 28 2008, 09:06 AM)

Serpent's seed doctrine is false teaching

It is a form of replacement theology

It is racially biased

Both Herbert Armstrong and Arnold Murray among others spread this aberrant teaching

The Bible does not support it in any way

It will totally warp the understanding of the scriptures for any who buy into it

Readers need to check out the research on the internet about these two false teachers

Amen.

After 20 years of study with Pastor Arnold Murray I don’t find his teaching at fault anywhere except when it comes to the age of the earth.

Of all of the Pastors I listen to and watch and have studied with Pastor Murray is about the best of the best and that is my opinion, there are many detractors who have not spent 20 years let alone 1 week really knowing what Arnold Murray teaches and why he teaches as he does.

Our day will come and we shall see one day who had the true leading of the Holy Spirit and I believe Pastor Murray will stand out as one of the very few who taught rightly and did so chapter by chapter verse by verse.

Pastor Murray spoke of the early days and who influenced him the most just recently and that man was J. Vernon McGee!
And he has many detractors as well..........It is always going to be this way no matter the Preacher some people are going to disagree and that is our nature, man I have found this to be true about my life as well, so many opinions so many who just parrot one another and speak out before really knowing for themselves.

Ignorance abounds and many fall prey by attacking the messenger before fully understanding the matter at hand!

When you know your family well and someone speaks ill of one of them and slanders or misrepresents who they really are and you know better than they ever could, it is very disheartening to witness and you must defend their honor and stand fast against the fiery darts of satan and shed the light of the truth on them.

I have spent enough time to know and understand the Man Pastor Murray is and he is not a racist and he is doing the LORDS work.

Read this and then respond to Arnold Murray if you would please.

http://www.christian-forum.net/index.php?s...c=20712&hl=

No Ozell....but it was implied. If I misunderstood, please accept my apologies. By the way....you could learn a great deal by sifting through some of what you term...nonsense!




You do realize that all races were on the ark. In other words two of each race, male and female were with Noah and his sons. We know that Ham's line mixed with gentiles because Nimrod was a descendant of his. Japeth, I would assume, went the same way. Shem is the line through which Christ would come...the Semitic, or properly said....Shemitic people.


That is the line God watched over. That is the line that weren't to mix with the other races....gentiles.





No, but once mixed with gentiles for several generations they would be.....gentiles




No, gentiles were not "son's of Shem."





Then you have a disagreement with Strong's....take it up with him.





Yes He did. Rather clearly I believe.

I am so happy you have joined this forum Patriot. It is always nice to hear a voice of reason....especially one I agree with


I also really like your name!

Your younger son perhaps, WW?