Sound foreign? Too Jewish? Well it shouldn't hit us that way, considering we are supposed to be following Jesus. Remember when Jesus said "do this in remembrance of Me" ? Well, Passover is coming, and another opportunity to get in synch with actual Biblical doctrine is at hand! Passover evening is on the 19th of April this year. Followed by 7 days of unleavened bread. This year, resurrection day is on the 27th of April.

I challenge all who esteem themselves to be truly Christian disciples and not just cultural Christians to forego on the pagan festivities we are all steeped in and come out or be called out in order to get in synch with the Bible and what is taught therein. We all need some mind renewal don't you think?

I would further call people out of the whole pagan Church thing altogether but let's not put too much on our plates at one time!

Are there any takers among you?

In His Name

John

I'm with you.......


......Whirlwind

This is my stance

See the discussion in the "Good Friday -Easter thread"
http://www.christian-forum.net/index.php?s...=17653&st=0

Thanks for the responses so far. Are there any others who agree or even disagree with what is presented here?


John

Sounds very interesting. What 'pagan' festivals are you asking me to forgo and which 'pagan' church are you suggesting that I leave, if you are.

More details, please.

Oh, and at the moment I do not consider myself to be a Christian disciple but a disciple of Christ. Will that make it more difficult?

But please let me know the pragmatics of what you are suggesting because I am willing to try anything that will bring me closer to my Heavenly Father's love through Jesus Christ, if that is what you are advocating, and by so doing be more available in God's Will than I am now to pass on that love to those in need.

Thank you.

Amen bro!

I hope the first statement of this thread isn't too provocative. But a little provoking in the right direction can be a good thing!

By pagan practices I mean all the things we do that have replaced Biblical practice. The Church has been cut-off from it's Jewish roots thus creating a schism with our Jewish brethren (or is that brethren who are Jewish?) This has created a disunity, which is condemned in the Bible. Worse yet, we have allowed our practice to be grafted into Western pagan culture. What? Imagine Easter (Ishtar, the Egyptian goddess of fertility aka aphrodite) with it's fertility symbols of eggs and bunnies becoming fused with the death and resurrection of our Lord. Such things took place in the OT as well....usually followed by some plague or other. So are we now free in Christ to practice syncretism?

How many remember the Lord in the Passover? We are commanded by Jesus to remember the Lord in this way yet we ignore Him completely. Why? Here is a wonderful time for unity and love of the brethren, both Jewish and non-Jewish. Ps.133 Why is this not a time of great celebration among the majority of my brothers?


Don't get me started about other non-Biblical tenets and practices as there are people on this forum whom I would not wish to offend needlessly. So I won't provide any details in that regard. However I'd be free to talk to you about it more on a house-church site!

Peace

John

Are the Jews supposed to be grafted into the church and become like us (apparently holding our own against rampant paganism) or are we to be grafted into the true Vine together with the remnant of Israel, thus becoming one New Man (the Church of Christ)? Which one is Biblical? Are there not more that are interested in this?

John

http://www.christian-forum.net/index.php?s...=17992&st=6

We observe the Mo'adim { appointed times} of YHWH
Here is a free Hebrew calendar program on the Bereans web site ~
Click here for Moedim software http://bereansonline.org/moedim/default.htm

QUOTE (adullam @ Apr 5 2008, 11:34 AM)

Are the Jews supposed to be grafted into the church and become like us (apparently holding our own against rampant paganism) or are we to be grafted into the true Vine together with the remnant of Israel, thus becoming one New Man (the Church of Christ)? Which one is Biblical? Are there not more that are interested in this?
John

Yah FORBID that our Jewish brothers and sisters be grafted into what is called the 'church' by the world!! Just as in the Tanakh {old testament }, believers in the Messiah are grafted together with Israel.

QUOTE

"In that case, I say, isn't it that God has repudiated His people?" Heaven forbid!

For I myself am a son of Isra'el, from the seed of Avraham, of the tribe of Binyamin. God has not repudiated His people, whom He chose in advance. Or don't you know what the Tanakh says about Eliyahu? He pleads with God against Isra'el, "Yahweh, they have killed Your prophets and torn down Your altars, and I'm the only one left, and now they want to kill me too!"But what is God's answer to him? "I have kept for Myself seven thousand men who have not knelt down to Ba'al."

It's the same way in the present age: there is a remnant, chosen by grace. (Now if it is by grace, it is accordingly not based on legalistic works; if it were otherwise, grace would no longer be grace.)

What follows is that Isra'el has not attained the goal for which she is striving. The ones chosen have obtained it, but the rest have been made stonelike, just as the Tanakh says, "God has given them a spirit of dullness eyes that do not see and ears that do not hear, right down to the present day." And David says, "Let their dining table become for them a snare and a trap, a pitfall and a punishment. Let their eyes be darkened, so that they can't see, with their backs bent continually."

"In that case, I say, isn't it that they have stumbled with the result that they have permanently fallen away?" Heaven forbid! Quite the contrary, it is by means of their stumbling that the deliverance has come to the Gentiles, in order to provoke them to jealousy. Moreover, if their stumbling is bringing riches to the world - that is, if Isra'el's being placed temporarily in a condition less favored than that of the Gentiles is bringing riches to the latter - how much greater riches will Isra'el in its fullness bring them!

However, to those of you who are Gentiles I say this: since I myself am an emissary sent to the Gentiles, I make known the importance of my work in the hope that somehow I may provoke some of my own people to jealousy and save some of them! For if their casting Yahshua aside means reconciliation for the world, what will their accepting Him mean? It will be life from the dead!

Now if the hallah offered as firstfruits is holy, so is the whole loaf. And if the root is holy, so are the branches. But if some of the branches were broken off, and you - a wild olive - were grafted in among them and have become equal sharers in the rich root of the olive tree, then don't boast as if you were better than the branches! However, if you do boast, remember that you are not supporting the root, the root is supporting you.

So you will say, "Branches were broken off so that I might be grafted in." True, but so what? They were broken off because of their lack of trust. However, you keep your place only because of your trust. So don't be arrogant; on the contrary, be terrified! For if God did not spare the natural branches, He certainly won't spare you!

So take a good look at God's kindness and His severity: on the one hand, severity toward those who fell off; but, on the other hand, God's kindness toward you - provided you maintain yourself in that kindness! Otherwise, you too will be cut off!

Moreover, the others, if they do not persist in their lack of trust, will be grafted in; because God is able to graft them back in. For if you were cut out of what is by nature a wild olive tree and grafted, contrary to nature, into a cultivated olive tree, how much more will these natural branches be grafted back into their own olive tree!

For, brothers, I want you to understand this truth which God formerly concealed but has now revealed, so that you won't imagine you know more than you actually do. It is that stoniness, to a degree, has come upon Isra'el, until the Gentile world enters in its fullness; and that it is in this way that all Isra'el will be saved. As the Tanakh says, "Out of Tziyon will come the Redeemer; He will turn away ungodliness from Ya'akov and this will be My covenant with them, . . . when I take away their sins." With respect to the Good News they are hated for your sake. But with respect to being chosen they are loved for the Patriarchs' sake, for God's free gifts and His calling are irrevocable.

Just as you yourselves were disobedient to God before but have received mercy now because of Isra'el's disobedience; so also Isra'el has been disobedient now, so that by your showing them the same mercy that God has shown you, they too may now receive God's mercy. For God has shut up all mankind together in disobedience, in order that He might show mercy to all.

O the depth of the riches and the wisdom and knowledge of God!

How inscrutable are His judgments!

How unsearchable are His ways!

For, 'Who has known the mind of the Lord? Who has been His counselor?' Or, 'Who has given Him anything and made Him pay it back?'

For from Him and through Him and to Him are all things.

To Him be the glory forever! Amen.

Romans 11 ~

shalom lach bat Yah

Does -Everyday Christmas- count?
No way I can miss a Feast if I celebrate everyday in prayer?

Do you think it's possible to celebrate both?

Hi Justice,

I hear you. What the feasts are for is the coming together of the brethren around the table of the Lord, as in the case of Passover. We are priviledged to commemorate the works of the Lord...together as His Body.

This in no way takes away a personal relationship with the Lord. It augments it!

John

Hi Mikki,

I'm sorry. What do you mean by both? Do you mean celebrating both Ishtar and Passover? To me that's like serving God and Mammon. Of course one can do it. I recommend not doing so.

Shalom in the home

John

I hear you too! =)
The great thing about gathering in the Spirit is, that it requires no travel, and it has an instant connection.

*cough* I said that 10 years ago about the internet...

God Bless You John!

Shanah Tovah!
Happy New Year!

Now the New Moon has been sighted in Israel and we can begin our new calendar year.

Now that we have accurately ascertained the first day of the month of the aviv barley, we can make concrete plans for the celebration of all the Springs Feasts of the LORD!

Preparation for Passover and the Feasts of Unleavened Bread begins on the 10th day of the month (Pagan date: Sundown April 16th through Sundown April 17th).

The day of Preparation in which the Passover Lamb was sacrificed during the temple period begins at Sundown Sun day April 20th through Sundown Moon day April 21st which is the 14th day of the Biblical month.

The Passover meal will be eaten on the 15th of the month (after Sundown Moon day April 21st)

and the First fruits (Bikkurim) of the barley will be harvested just after sundown at the end of the weekly Sabbath on the 19th (after sundown Saturns day, April 26th).


THE DATES FOR THE SPRING FEAST ARE:

New Years Day Monday April 7-Tuesday April 8 at sunset.
The 14th is from Sunday April 20 at sunset to Monday April 21 at Sunset
The First Day of Unleavened Bread is From Sunset April 21 to Sunset April 22
The Days of Unleavened Bread ar from the First day until the 7th day. Both are Holy Days and no leaven is to be found in your house or Property.
The Last Day of Unleavened Bread is Sunset Sunday April 27 to Monday April 28 Sunset.
The Wave Sheaf Offering is on Sunday Morning April 27. From this day we begin to count to 50 to Pentecost.

http://www.sightedmoon.com/?page_id=220

Happy New Year to you too , or Shanah Tovah....( I wonder if when we are all with the Lord we will all speak one language again and that language is.....Hebrew?)


Recently "Richard" posted on this forum with information about Passover, or a "late" Passover. This could well happen this year...I have pasted it below:


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


May 19,1780 was an unexplainably “Dark Day” (Google Dark Day or date; people lit lamps at noon.)

May 19, 1980, the 200th anniversary, was a dark day after Mt St Helens put ash in the sky over 3 states.

May 19, 2000 was the full moon of a solar system alignment when “Mercury, Venus, Mars, Jupiter and Saturn will line up with the sun and [new] moon—the first time in 6,000 years.” (TIME Magazine, January 17, 2000)

Before giving reasons why May 19 is important to 2008, let me ask you--

How would a "Big Bang" (solar explosion) create any kind of alignment of nicely rounded planets, some with their own moons, and orbiting like clock-work so scientists can say the system was aligned 6,000 years ago? I faxed a letter asking this to five big name university physics departments with no response. Science often fails to answer questions that the Bible explains.

6,000 years marks the end of time that God has given to man!
In those dangerous 10 Commandments that our godless society is afraid to allow in schools (school shootings have occurred since we ban God's law) we read "Six days shall you labor and do all your work" (Exodus 20:9) but also--

"Beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing. One day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. God is not slack [no delay]...the day of the Lord will come." 2 Peter 3:8-10. Peter was talking about the time of judgment, verse 7.

But, you say, that was nearly eight years ago and nothing happened! Oh yes it has. We are moving into a time of judgment with 9-11, the tsunami, Katrina and economic collapse. And the timing is exactly right so far--

In the only solar system alignment in the Bible (Joseph's dream), “The sun, moon and…stars made obeisance to me,” Genesis 37:9. His dream made no sense until, after seven good years, his brothers bowed to him like the stars in his dream during seven years of famine. Since May 19, 2000, seven years have been ok, but trouble is signals by the events since then.

May 19 is also important in 08 because Christ's clues point to a provision in biblical law for a late Passover and this year (based on lunar cycle) this provision of Numbers 9:10,11 falls on May 19.

Nehemia Gordon, a language scholar who worked on the Dead Sea Scrolls has shown that Matthew has idioms that support its being originally written in Hebrew. The three times Christ said, “You don’t know the day or hour,” we may understand it as “It’s not like you think…” Each time He said it, He gave an example that fit the provision in Numbers 9:10,11--

1. Christ said, You don’t know, but “as the days of Noah” Matthew 24:37 .
The Flood came with Passover timing, but in the 2nd spring month because Noah buried his grandfather Methuselah, who died as a sign the Flood was imminent His name meant, “at his death, the sending forth of waters” Genesis 5:21, margin. Noah buried his grandfather. The law in Numbers 9:10,11 says contact with a dead body means keeping Passover a month later.

2. Christ said, You don’t know, but “if the goodman…had known… he would have watched.” Matthew 24:43. “The goodman is not at home, he is gone on a long journey.” He returns at the full moon. Proverbs 7:19,20 KJV (yom kece in Hebrew means full moon). Passover comes on a full moon, and “long journey” is a clue for 2nd Passover, Numbers 9:10,11.

3. You don’t know, “For the kingdom of heaven is as a man traveling into a far country,” Matthew 25:14. Again a reference to a long journey that is the basis for a delayed Passover in Numbers 9:10,11. Christ took a long journey. We may expect His (invisible) return in judgment in conformity to the law ("till heaven and earth pass..." Matthew 5:18).

2nd Passover (2nd full moon after the equinox) falls on May 19/20 this year. Like cross hairs on a gun sight, we have two elements of warning that coincide this year and God says He will not do anything without revealing it, Amos 3:7.
For more information on what we may expect, please visit www.theBridegroomComes.com


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Dr. Richard Ruhling is a Bible conference and seminar speaker. If you have questions or concerns, you may contact him by email, Ruhling7@juno.com

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~



I wonder if we will have a 2nd or late Passover this May 19th. There are so many signs pointing to that day but so much would have to happen between now and then.....I don't know? It's a good time to keep eyes and ears opened!



........Whirlwind

Thanks

Interesting about Passover. I'll look into this later. Gotta sign off now

Hi All,

Just a note. Although Nissan is the first month of the Jewish calendar, the beginning of the year is in the 7th month of Tishrei, in the fall. Passover is on the 14th of Nissan...as always. Passover evening (first seder) is on the 19th of April this month.

Oz ve-hadar ba-Mashiach! (strength and honour in Christ)


John

Thank you John.....What is your understanding of the date of the Jubilee year? Some believe the correct date is lost to time. Others give dates but they seldom agree. Is there a possibility, as far as you know, of it being this year?



..Whirlwind

You got me on that one Whirlwind! I'd have to consult with my buddy MMarc. He thrives on this. Marc are you there???


John

Hi Whirlwind,

I find it interesting that you would ask that. I have often wondered the same thing. Seems that I have been picking up Hebrew a little at a time through bible study, concordance and music. I have a Hebrew bible, and I would love to be able to read it. My own study Bible is a KJV parallel with Amplified Version, but while studying I also bring up the Sacred Name King James Bible http://www.htmlbible.com/sacrednamebiblecom/index.htm

There seems to be a difference of opinion on the Passover date. According to Joseph Dumond at http://www.sightedmoon.com/?page_id=220
it's on the 14th day of the month on God's calendar (determined by the sighting of the new moon) not the Hebrew calendar which is in error. He's a good teacher, and I'm trying to comprehend everything I can, but I am a newbie at this.
Please read this article on calendars http://www.sightedmoon.com/?page_id=126

Richard's website contain a lot of good information, especially about health. www.theBridegroomComes.com
He states that if there's a second Passover it would be one month later than the first, on May 19. (1st would be April 19?).

Hi Here am I,

I believe that we should keep the Passover of the Jews. Notice I didn't say the Jewish Passover! We should do this for unity with the brethren in Christ who are Jewish. Also to be a light to those who have not yet seen the light of Messiah. We mustn't get too technical and spoil the Feast, wouldn't you say?

Shalom in the home,

John

I agree. It is more important that we do observe HIS Feast Days.

PESSAH (PASSOVER)

This year the Seder is on April 19th, 2008

The prophetic fulfillment of this Holiday is clear. It is a time to thank God for our freedom, and that covers a volume of types of freedoms. To be a free people, and to be free to worship God. But the word that summed up the true meaning of Pessah is "Redemption". Rabbi Saul (Paul) sums up this theme in his letter to the Corinthian Believers. He was addressing a moral problem in their members. To solve their problem Saul draws upon a well-known analogy of Pessah.
it was the Catholic Church th
Your boasting is not good. Don’t you know the saying, it takes only a little chametz to leaven a whole batch of dough? Get rid of the old chametz, so that you can be a new batch of dough, because in reality you are unleavened. For your Pessah Lamb, the Messiah, has been sacrificed. So let us celebrate the Seder, not with leftover charmetz, the charmetz of wickedness and evil, but with the matzah of purity and truth. (I-Corinthians 5:6-8)

Paul is telling Believers to celebrate Passover, to have a Seder (Passover Meal) that celebrates the deliverance from Slavery and being a free people. To set aside this day to thank, praise and worship God. I don’t want to dwell on this too much but . It however created a great problem. it was the Catholic Church that said "to do so was far to Jewish," and they stopped the celebration of Passover in the Church. What about the Resurrection, what would they do about the fact that all the early Believers celebrated the Resurrection on the day of First Fruits? (Part of the Passover celebration)
[/b]
Yeshua died on the Feast of Pessah, was buried on the Feast of Unleavened Bread, and rose on the Feast of First Fruits. Fifty days later the Holy Spirit was sent on the next Holiday in line Shavuot (Pentecost). This was what is referred to as the first advent. The first three Holiday’s follow each other, in the first three days, (Pessah, Unleavened Bread, and First Fruits) and we celebrate them all within an 8 day celebration, and we just call it Passover (Pessah). But the Catholic Church had a big problem, and they solved it with a bunch of paganism brought in from Babylon, and called the Resurrection (First Fruits) Easter. But enough of that, for now I want to just talk about Pessah, and possibly your getting it right.

Before going on, I want to make something clear, I am not suggesting that you must keep all the Jewish laws concerning Pessah, you have the freedom to adapt the preparation to a comfortable degree. To some they may celebrate more than others. It is well however to note, that what I am saying is from the Word, and I know it pleases God for His people to reach out to Him in truth instead of paganism.

Prophetic Fulfillment

In a house there is much preparations for the Seder, the house is cleaned from top to bottom, there is no bread or leaven left in the house anywhere. After the first week of Nisan, for focus is very directed towards Pessah. After sundown on the fourteenth day of Nisan, a special ceremony called bedikat khameytz (the search of the leaven) takes place in the home. The last tiny bits of leaven are found and removed from the house, taken outside and burned.

This is interesting because the house had been previously cleaned, so the leader of the house had to hide some small bits here and there in the house to be found. Then the leader takes a feather and a wooden spoon and a lighted candle. And the family begins searching for the final leaven. This is a great time to get the children involved, it’s like the game hide and seek.

There are many spiritual lessons for Believers here. The leaven (sin) must be cleaned from our house (our hearts). In so doing we must use the light of the candle (the Word of God) Illumines our sin (Psalm 119:11). The most beautiful of all, the wooden spoon that holds the leaven, (the Wooden Cross that holds all of our sins and carries them away). To the Believer who walks with God and is filled with His Spirit will discern many spiritual truths in this, and begin to know why the Word tells us to celebrate the Seder (Peasch).

It is my belief that when a true Believer discovers any Biblical truth and applies it to their life, doing so enriches them. So it is my prayer that you may experience a closer relationship with Messiah Yeshua our Passover Lamb in and intimate and practical way. Let us therefore celebrate the feast (I-Cor. 5:8)

So with the above preparation, we are ready to begin the Seder, the festive feast called the Seder. It is full of wonderful spiritual truths for the Believer as well as the Jew. Hopefully you will find a good Haggadah (booklet of how to hold a Seder) and begin a spiritual trip that will enrich your life and give you a deeper closer walk with our Messiah. If I can be of any help, please let me know.

Shalom and Hag Same’ach (happy Holiday),

jerry golden
http://www.thegoldenreport.com/asp/jerrysn...?a=1218&z=1

Thanks Here I am, Chag Sameach!


John

...Chag Sameach to you, also

We're almost at the feast. Does everybody have their un-leavened bread? (matsah) I'm expecting a very happy Passover this year. Happy Passover to all! He is risen indeed! Maran-atha!


John

Hey bro, so friday night we celebrate the aniversary of the first marriage supper of the Lamb. When the cup of the covenant was shared.

MMarc,

It's on Saturday. You are invited bro!

John