I had no choice but to repete this, because what your saying is that you "Believe kim to be true" which he isn't. so it brings me to this again ->

2 Tim 4:3 For the time will come when men will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear.

It seems to me, that your ignoring the facts "above".. Maybe you believe him because it's what your own heart desires and what you want to hear?

The Bible says a person proclaiming to be a prophet was stoned unless his propehcies were 100% accurate. In doing a web search on Kim Clements, I have read many of his prophecies that did not come to pass - one saying that none of of the american troops would be harmed in Iraq. The Bible is always the final authority - search it to find out if Mr. Clement is a true prophet.

I think both of you are right.
Dove ,you have to see where Miki is coming from.She cares about the person and his walk with God.And so should we all. Therefore the prayer for correction and strengthening.
You are rightly concerned with the truth and so should all of us.Here we can see how the Body of Christ should operate. In discernment AND in love. You are each acting out of who you are in the Body and not as it would seem at first ...even to you, ...that you are at opposites.

That is why we need each other.
love in Christ
Cornelius

QUOTE(Dove @ Oct 20 2005, 07:11 AM)

QUOTE(Miki @ Oct 20 2005, 08:56 AM)

I know all this stuff.

God will complete a work in him and in you too!  
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Kim is a liar, put his name into google and you will see that more people tend to think he's a fraud and false prophet.

It is true, he always tends to post his predictions on the day of events or afterwards. on the day of hurricane katrina as i remember, he posted his prediction about that on that day. which it was big news at that point and just about everyone knew what was going to happen. which was obvious! He does it each time, he's fake and he's leading people away from truth/god.

I won't say he was evil or wicked, but one day it will come to that with him. but he is a fool, who as no gift.
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][FONT=Arial]Hello Dove,

I have done research on Kim Clement as well to find out if in fact he is a true prophet. I did come across the websites that you have posted, and have read the bible.

Deuteronomy 18:20-22 states

20But any prophet who claims to give a message from another god or who falsely claims to speak for me must die.' 21You may wonder, `How will we know whether the prophecy is from the LORD or not?' 22If the prophet predicts something in the LORD's name and it does not happen, the LORD did not give the message. That prophet has spoken on his own and need not be feared.

Kim Clements prophesies have not all come to pass.

Dove the latest prophesy was posted after the Pakistan earthquake. I found that odd. However, I was told he taped his prophesies in front of audiences. These tapes are than reviewed and posted on the website. What is your take on this?

We have to be careful of false prophets. The bible is our source.

Oceana

You have some good points Cornelius , but kim isn't a prophet and i'd hate to see people taken for fools.

This is why he isn't a prophet -

Would the prophet cash in on there own gift? No, a prophet wouldn't be money motivated and would do it for the love of the spirit.

Has kim? yes he as, check his site and also Read what the bible says, it says something similar.

The Motivation of the False Prophet Is Money:.
Micah 3:9 [NIV]

A prophet waits for the word of god? Kim then hasn't, because he as made false prophecies, check the links i've posted above and the bible.

1 Cor 14:37 If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord.

Do prophets make up lies? Well no, kim made up one saying a cure for aids would be found in 2002.

read this from the bible :

2 Pet 2:3 [NIV] In their greed these teachers will exploit you with stories they have made up. Their condemnation has long been hanging over them, and their destruction has not been sleeping.

The proof is in front of you? but i know that some will try to dismiss what i've just said above.

Hi bullsie,

I cant but notice, but I sense you are upset. You are searching for the truth, and the truth is in our bible. When in doubt about anything we ought to go back to our bibles to search for the truth. It is a sad world today to see that there are many people who do not know GOD. Yes we are to bring people to the church, but remember we can minister to anyone that comes through our path. It is our responsiblity to let others know about GOD, and help save them. We dont have to do it in the Church, but being involved in the Church is part of how we grow, bond, and reach others. People have different ways of receiving GODs message. It has been done through Passion of the Christ, Music, and in our troubled times that we have seen in our own country. (Katrina Hurricane)

As far as respect from others it is not through being well trained, or educated but by knowing the word of GOD and applying it in our own lives. People are not always going to agree with what christians have to say. Some people do not like christians at all. This is OK, because Jesus himself was persecuted, and rebuked. Yet he still was able to reach many people. We are not to give up, or doubt our GOD. We have to fight the good fight. We are having a supernatural war every day. That is why we must stay in the word, and pray.

Bullsie hold on to the word, keep your eyes on GOD, and continue to bring others to GOD. GOD will not let his people down. He is our source of existance.

May GOD be with you, and strengthen you.

Oceana

Hello Oceana

But who told you? It seems that some people will defend him tooth and nail because they believe him to be true. It could be an excuse? because i haven't come across these tapes on his site. If he had these tapes on his site, with dates giving a time which was done way before he posted them on his site then i'd be astonished.

But then again, that depends on whether there video tapes? because you can't prove a thing with a cassette recording or a mp3

hHI IT IS BULLSIE AGAIN,NO I AM NOT UPSET I JUST BELIEVE IN THIS SO MUCH.I AM NOT SAYING THE ONLY WAY TO REACH PEOPLE IS THROUGH OTHER PLACES . I AM SAYING WE SHOULD ADD THEM TO OUR LIST. YES IT IS TRUE WE NEED CHURCH FOR FELLOWSHIP AND DIRECTION.BUT OUR CHRISTANITY SHOULD NOT STOP THERE. WE SOMTIMES PUT GOD IN A BOX AND THAT IS DUE TO MANY THINGS IN LIFE. SUCH AS HURT,PAIN,FEAR,NO FAITH. THINGS LIKE THAT. BUT I BELIEVE THIS IS A NEW AVENUE IN A LARGER WAY THAN WE KNOW. GOD IS OPENING THE DOORS BECAUSE THERE ARE ALOT OF PEOPLE NOT BEING TOUCHED BECAUSE THEY DON'T COME TO CHURCH. EVEN JESUS WENT TO THE SINNERS HEDID NOT SIT IN CHURCH ALL DAY. HE WENT TO THE WORLD AND SPOKE INTO THERE LIVES THAT THEY WOULD UNDERSTAND. LET ME SAY THIS. ONLY BY THE HELP OF THE HOLY SPIRIT CAN THIS VERY THING BE ACCOMPLISHED. SO I GUESS THE LORD WOULD HAVE TO REVEAL IT TO US SEPARATLY. THINK ABOUT THIS DO YOU KNOW SOMEONE WHO WOULD NOT GO TO CHURCH WITH YOU? DO YOU KNOW SOMEONE WHO WOULD GO TO A MOVIE WITH YOU? WHAT IF IT WAS A CHRISTIAN MOVIE? THEY COULD GO AND SEEDS WOULD BE PLANTED. YOU SEE WHAT I AM SAYING. JUST WHEN WE THINK ONLY GOD CAN SAVE PEOPLE THIS OR THAT WAY , GOD SAY NO MY WAYS ARE HIGHER. THINK OF MEL GIBSONS MOVIE. HOW MANY PEOPLE WENT THAT NEVER REALLY KNEW WHAT JESUS DID FOR THEM. NOW THEY KNOW. WOULD THEY COME TO CHURCH TO SEE THAT. MOST LIKELY NO. BUT GOD USED MEL WHO IS WELL RESPECTED, AND LIKE TO GET THERE ATTENTION. GOD DID NOT CALL FOR HIS PEOPLE TO TAKE A BACK SEAT ESPECIALLY IN THE LAST DAYS. YES SOME WILL STILL LAUGH,REJECT, AND NOT PAY ANY ATTENTION. BUT WITH GODS ANOITING MANY WILL BE SAVED. THINK HOW GREAT IT WILL BE WHEN THERE ARE MORE SAVED THAN NOT. THESE ARE THE LAST DAYS AND JESUS IS WORKING OUT OF THE BOX. HIS WAYS ARE HIGHER. LOVE IN THE LORD BULLSIE

bullsie, i love your heart. and i love the love you show.
May God bless you richly. and in every way.
i just wanted you to know i think your heart is so beautiful
love,
bz

thank you so much. that means alot that you don't think i'm nuts. GOD BLESS YOU. LOVE BULLSIE

Hi bullsie,

I understand what you are saying. Church is not the only way to reach people, but through other means. Wherever we are we have the opportunity to minister to strangers, friends, and family. Thanks for your insight on all of this.

Oceana

I don't know much about Kim. All I know is that when I see him on T. V in my spirit I wanna throw-up. Don't get me wrong, I know God loves him as much as he does me. But in my spirit I have to say I discern something Not of God...Father in Heaven forgive me if I'm wrong!!! But teach me NEVER to fall for just anything. And teach me NOT to be moved by what I ONLY feel, see, or touch, but lead me by The Holy Ghost. (God said My sheep know my voice and no other will he follow.)

Amen Gr8ful!!!!

Then keep following the spirit!! YIPEEEE, cuz sooner or later...you will see the error and lies of these FOOLS!



Clement is the President and CEO of his ministry Prophetic Image Expressions. Clement had a salary of $346,00 in 1998 out of $1,174,437 in contributions. In 2001 his ministry took in $1,296,875. Not surprising that he is not a participant of the ECFA (listed on-http://www.ministrywatch.com/mw2.1/F_FinInfo.asp)

No wonder, I got such a bad feeling driving through Detroit.

hi this is bullsie, yes i see what you are saying . i cannot afford to judge. god says to discern not judge there is a difference. how much money he makes does not concern me. alot of preachers make good money. i did see the the quote about being born again. yes it jolted me too. but when i looked in to all of what he was saying it made sense. you cannot just take part of what he said and twist it to fit your belief about him (kim) you must read it all. now what he spoke of would make sense in this way. did you ever know someone who said the sinners prayer,got saved went to church a few times and nothing really changed. they have done this say 7 years no fruit,no change,no growth. that always bothered me how coould this happen. along with many other things i think it is because they could not see the kingdom at hand. there was no revelation of who and what god really is . and what it means to grasp hold of the kingdom. i think this is more of what he was talking about.on his website he goes into more detail. this is listed under doctrine i think. because words are not enough there has to be a change in mind and your heart. some people have believed for years that they can say the right words,like the sinners prayer and can keep on living and not change their beliefs. i have friends who said the sinners prayer,go to bars, sleep around. when the rapture happens will they go? nicodemus was saved by law he did all he was to do for that time. Because that was before christ died on the cross. Heck when christ came it all change nicodemus sensed this change. he was probaly relieved. this was not religon as it always was. Somthing was different he was tired of all of the tradional religous acts around him. In return he was searching for more just like we do. So he questioned Christ .In order to be born again you must i believe accept christ as lord which means he reigns over your life. and saviour saving you from death,.he died on the cross for forgivness. Yes he is king of kings,so there must be a kingdom right? Then what kingdom?" the kingdom that is at hand". there must be a true conversion in you heart mind and emotions. if the rapture would have happened 7 years ago i would have been left behind. because jesus did not have all of me only part. i could not see his kingdom that he spoke of. I believed god was very judgemental no love . I though to be a christian was boring. Well all truth be told it was until I see his goodness,love , joy, and the most important that I had a calling a purpose, a destiny. WOW I never knew that and i grew up in a christian home . Amazing huh, So until his will, and kingdom were revealed to me I backslide all the time. the true conversion took place when I seen his goodness, and what he thought of me. See the world still thinks they cannot live up to what god wants them too. so they don't bother. they sin and don't worry about feeling guilty. because they really only think to be a christian is to hard . because they don't have a real concept of his kingdom. when it comes down to it i learned that the spiritual is more real than this realm. i did not always know this. now i do. and i feel that the kingdom can really only be see in the spirit realm. reveled by the holy spirit. jesus told peter this was not revealed to you by flesh,but by the father. Jesus told nicodemus that which is flesh is flesh,that which is spirit is spirit. that is what makes us the salt of the earth. We see what they don't. they would say kingdom there is no kingdom? THEY WOULD THINK WE WERE NUTS. becuase they only go by what they see in this realm. they don't see the kingdom that is at hand. in saying this i will not judge kim i will just trust god. but i think this is more of what he was saying. naturally anytime you go aginst the grain you will be critizied. but jesus himself went against the grain right? so let's wait and see what happens on oct. 31 maybe that will clear up some questions. So when we witness to a person or a crowd whatever the case. the kingdom must be revealed for a true conversion. because when i got saved i did not understand it i just did it cause i did not want to go to hell. so think of those who are getting saved if there is a real conversion see how the gosple was preached I bet the kingdom was revealed. they were probaly told jesus loves you, he died for you, you have a purpose, if you yeild to him he will use you big time. come as you are he loves you now. not only conditionally. or were they told if you don't get saved you go to hell. not a revealing of the kingdom is it. even though it is true the kingdom is not revealed. so i think this is what kim is talking about. remember we should not put god in a box. he said he would lead us from glory to glory in other words from revelation to revelation. love ya bullsie, respond please.

The thrust of the ministry of the Prophets was to rebuke and scold as well as to bring comfort.

"That this is a rebellious people, lying children, children who will not hear the law of the LORD; Who say to the seers, "Do not see," and to the prophets, "Do not prophesy to us right things; speak to us smooth things, prophesy deceits."
Isa 30:9-10

"Therefore thus says the LORD concerning the prophets who prophesy in My name, whom I did not send, and who say, 'Sword and famine shall not be in this land' --' By sword and famine those prophets shall be consumed!”
Jer 14:15

If one reads about the true prophets they were giving warnings almost all the time, not soothing words people want to hear. But the prophets of today give smooth words and know what people long to hear.

After all, who wants to come to a meeting and be challenged and possibly be rebuked for doing any wrong. It is the blessing that everyone is seeking -- (not the counsel that will correct) -- "what does God have for me."

Here is a quote from one of the many (so-called) "apostles" of our day:

"I believe that the government of the church is finally coming into place and that is what the Scripture teaches in Eph. 2, that the foundation of the church is apostles and prophets. Previous to this decade of the 80's and the 90's we practically ignored prophets and apostles and now we’re seeing, what I believe is a major reason. We’re going to new levels in prayer. We’re going to new levels in the spiritual. We’re going to new levels in healing and miracles. We’re going to new levels in deliverance of demonic deliverance. And so this is the new era we are going into and I don't know if it is coincidental or what, but its just as we are moving into the new millennium." (C. Peter Wagner, CBN interview Jan. 3, 2000)

Many (so-called) apostles and prophets make these types of statements today.
If the Church has not had any true leadership till the present, then that is a reflection on God Himself Who is the one Who builds His Church. There have always been "apostles," sent out ones, church planting missionaries, and "prophets," those who properly exegete and apply the written Word of God to the Church. Just because many churches now want to listen to people who are getting their messages from their hyperactive minds and through the air, and unbiblical visions, does not mean that some of us have not had leadership. The difference is that true believers have always had apostles and prophets in their midst and the real ones were humble and didn't brag about their "office." When you see false apostles and prophets trying to cover their sins instead of repenting of them (as we so OFTEN see today), you are seeing deception on a highly demonic level.


~Ish

Solomon noted that "a rebuke enters deeper into one that hath understanding than a hundred stripes into a fool" (Prov. 17:10).

Correction is a natural expression of love (Prov. 3:11-12), and when it is well received, it produces peaceable fruit (Heb. 12:11).


~Ish

well i thank you for your word. this is bullsie i feel very sad tonight because i don't understand what god is really doing i wanted to believe that god would do somthing and it is almost nov.1st and nothing has happened . so what a let down for me. i don't understand how this works. i pray, i worship, i rea the bible, i witness, yet there is stuggle all around me. i'm not saying i'm giving up on god but what is he waiting for. he said we would do miricles in his name. yet i see none. he said we would prosper yet most of us don't. he said we would do all thing in his name yet america is only getting worse. i want to know when will we see these thing because today i am really questing all of my belifes. i love jesus more than you know. he is my everything. i love to be in his presents. i love to learn about him, talk about him. i love to sing to him and of . yet tonight i question all of this. why can't these great things happen why do the evil always seem to get ahead. When will we be the head and not the tail, when will we be more than overcomers. does any one know really. i mean even when judgement comes to america they all go back build there bars, strip bars, nothing ever changes and the ones who are gods people struggle just the same. i mean i am 30 years old i have heard the rapture is comming all of my life. many have heard the same for 60 70 80 100 years. i does not happen. why ? are we wrong maybe we are crazy. i don't know i need some time tonight to think. maybe i'll feel better in the morning. sorry to bother you with my thoughts. god bless from pittsburgh, bullsie

Hi Bullsie, most of us know exactly how you feel. All Christians go through this at one time or the other, so don't despair, you are on the right track.
I have learned that sometimes we want things our way and not God's way and then we get all despondent..well sometimes I just got plain angry with God.
Sometimes this desperate feeling we get is the start of something new in our lives.We have to look at what God is trying to tell us in such times.
One other thing I want to say is , the Bible tells us to take our eyes off people and to focus just on Jesus. We cannot be looking at prophets or teachers and all the rest. They "know in part", only God knows all.
Focus your HEART on Him and let Him speak to you.

The other thing is :God's timing.Everything is running on schedule, I promise you that.God hasn't missed a second yet.Through His grace, he is waiting for the harvest of many souls....the evil guys are going to get more evil, says the Bible and the saved are going to grow closer to God.

we all feel like Jonah sometimes , telling God "Yes God, kill the evil dudes!!!!!" but our God is full of mercy and love and He wants people to come to Him.
God's judgement of the world is here, I believe. We must be careful not to rejoice when people are judged.We must pray and stay humble before Him.
Miracles are happening today. the blind see ,the deaf hear and the lame walk.Bullsie start putting your hands on the sick and see what will happen! HE is the healer and he lives IN you.
much love in Christ,
your brother
Cornelius

THERE IS A REVIVAL I NEW REVIVAL THAT IS SPREADING ACROSS THE LAND . IT IS A REVIVAL OF HOPE LOVE AND JOY. IT IS A REVIVAL OF ONE ON ONE WITH YOUR FRIENDS YOUR NEIGHBORS AND ALSO YOUR WORKERS AND COWORKERS,
THAT IS LEADING UP TO THE GREATEST REVIVAL OF THE LAND.ISAIAH 5TH CHAPTERS SPELLS OUT WAS IS YET TO COME.ALSO AS A PROPHET I SEE A FLEASH EATER ON HE HORIZON.I RECEIVED FROM THE BIBLE CODE.

Bah! thats what I say to the flesh eater! Let em come an' eat up our bodies! He only strengthens our army everytime he kills a believer. Let them play their trivial little games with us, we have no fear! Our God is the Greater Power! Let them scramble like little children knowing their punishment is upon them! My only concern is for those who dont know Jesus and who want/need to, but alas hasn't God worked His flawless plan? Yes! The heavens shall ring with His praise when the flesh eating dragon is consumed in the fire! Praise be to God, death be everlast for His transgressors! Arghh! Come and eat me you yellow-bellied garden snake! Eat me so I can come back and show you what for in my newly created body of redeemed perfection! I'll cut you a new one with my blade of rightousness and the Lord seal you up never to tempt us again! Huzaah! What a glorious day it will be when all that is good in creation can be rid of this annoying evil hendrance! Our perfection will last forever with the Lord as our eternal master! We will be the stewards He made us to be, and will quell evil before it even raises its ugly head. Dear Devil: You are an annoying little child and you dont scare anyone who knows the truth. You are the most pathetic creature imaginable and your haughty pride just makes you look even more stupid! So know your role, and get trampled under the foot of the rightous! God Bless all!

I agree with talking things out of context and building a straw man. When Benny Hinn did a teaching on the 7 spirits of God he made a tongue and cheek remark that God had 10 spirits if you counted the trinity. Later it came out that Hinn denies the trinity. they built and built on that, wanting to tar and feather him.

As far as Kim? He said it would begin just before Halloween. On this forum we talked about things in October but later found out there was a 40 day delay. Are we so quick to sign seal and deliver a thing. If there is a delay here why not there?

And he only said begins...I'm not defending because l'm convinced he's totally righteous and sent of God but l'm defending what is fair and right to do.

Bullsie l agree with what Cornelius said. Don't look at men. Look at Jesus. Don't wait for men to perform for you. Let God perform through you. Be obedient yourself. Say "Change me God...And when you change me l can be that sent one l so long to see in others".

You can find garbage on any great man that ever lived by following the above method. Just google it...you'll see.

I read a prophecy of his online just yesterday to refresh my memory. He is pretty adament that it will be on the 31st. He doesn't say the end of Oct. in this particular prophecy, but on the 31st. He also said this date again last week on TBN.

I was reserving judgement about him until yesterday. I waiting... half expected something to happen. But nothing did.

I am pretty sure this guy is full of it.

I agree, jhamner. The day has now past. Nothing changed that I am aware of either......

and see!! what great harm to faith has been done to bullsie...!!!
see!! how waiting upon a MAN, instead of relying upon God and waiting for GOD hurts some!!

kimclement is a LIAR and a FALSE PROPHET....

and it would be better that a millstone were tied around his neck and he is hurled into the sea!!

dear bullsie. please....start a study...a reading...of the PSALMS...

partularly?....well, many are the words that are written that come to mind...but May the Spirit of Truth guide you.
psalm 49 came to mind...and there is MUCH right at the beginning that is written for our comfort.

Jehovah is not late...and he is not slow respecting his promise.

and things are not going to get "better" in the short term...
no they will get MUCH MUCH WORSE!!!

and the lying rapture teaching will also cause many to stumble and fall.

and the wicked will be come more and more wicked.
and those that serve the True God, will become more and more divided from those that do not serve.

and SHAME on YOU MIKI!! for supporting and even praying for someone that has DAMAGED THE FAITH OF SUCH A LITTLE ONE!!!

and shame on those that say "GOD BLESS USA".

for GOD WILL NOT BLESS IT....HE EVEN WILL DESTROY IT.

it is WICKED TO THE CORE....and the white house is really full of what is BLACK!!
GOD WILL DESTROY THE DESTROYER.
and THE WICKED.

and the MEEK SHALL INHERIT THE EARTH!

FOR I DO HATE ALL THOSE THAT HATE MY FATHER,
and i DO HATE ALL THOSE LEAVING HIS LAW.

doyou see the bush administration being exposed? it has been and will be further exposed.

and LONG have they practiced their spiritistic practices inside that white house....that white house is really a whore house.

and they prostitute themselves, and sell the poor and the needy to fatten their own bellies!!

but all the nations....all of them alike-- are corrupt.

and the false propehts are the ones that support the nations,
the nations, that are in OPPSITION TO GOD!

i tell you the truth....anyone that supports a nation, any nation, is not from GOD. clement is a big bush advocate....
clement worships a bush.
clement is a prophet that speaks in behalf of bush.

and not for GOD.

JESUS has TOLD US!!!
BEWARE OF THE LEAVEN OF CAESAR!!!!!!!!!!!!!

beware of the "rulers of this world"!!!

they will come to NOTHING.

and they are AS NOTHING...in the EYES of GOD. ISAIAH!!! chapter 40!!

and GOD IS NOT A CYCLOPS.

how did John the Baptist speak of HEROD!?!

and what happened to JOHN for the things he spoke?
and what things did he say to the PHARISEES????

the pahrisees and "caasar"!! they said, "WE HAVE NO KING BUT CAESAR"!!!!!!

and AS FOR ME....i have NO KING BUT CHRIST!!!

and MY BLOOD BE UPON BABYLON!!

they will surely FILL UP THE MEASURE OF THEIR FOREFATHERS!!!

-BZ

Whether He comes tomorrow or whether I die tonight, I still need to be looking. For those who were looking for Him 100 years ago, if they died still looking for Him, then they were ready to see Him when they died, and they were not disappointed. Whether you're raptured today or killed in a car crash today, you still need to be looking and ready and not discouraged. And please don't think I mean this in a negative way--I don't. Even if it's still 100 years away, it's not 100 years away for us, because we will see Him when we die anyway, and we don't know when that will be--it could be at any moment and we need to be ready. I'm not very eloquent today, and I'm sorry, but I don't want you to be discouraged. You won't have to wait 100 years, and I promise you that you can be comforted by the Holy Spirit in prayer and study of the scriptures. You can also know that you will see your Lord soon, and you are not wrong for believing. Please do not lose faith. God bless,

Debbie

Father l lift up Kim Clement to you ask you to deliver him from the enemy. To stand him up to hear clearly what you would say. Help us not to hate but love in Jesus name.... amen

your prayer MIKI,
should RATHER BE
in BEHALF OF THE LITTLE ONES HURT, like BULLSIE !!!!

but NO!! YOU PRAY in behalf of the WICKED!!

and SO your PRAYER WILL NOT BE HEARD!!!

HOW can you dare PRAY in behalf of one who has harmed a little one?

and HOW dare you????

for you would pronounce the wicked, "righteous"?
and the "righteous" you will even pronounce wicked?

WE are SURLEY DIVIDED, miki. and my prayer is in behalf of bullsie!!

bz

I thought the Physician came for the sick?

Father l lift bz to you. Help her to love her enemy and understand that's it's not your desire that any should perish.

That you don't want to punish.

And you don't do it in hate but in hope for a turning.

Help her in this l pray...Jesus

amen

mmmmmmmmmmmmm

things are heating up in here .

I hope the moderator doesn't step in , because I love a good argument .
( only joking )

One problem with prophesy is that it doesn't always come to pass .
So you need spiritual discernment to know if a prophet is a false prophet or not .

But it's worth finding out !!

I think many paths are strewn with the dead roses of forgotten words and false promises .
When they come from the pulpit , it hurts all the more .

mmmmmmm

Hi Marcus!

I'm not going to rage and hate.

I admire your zeal and spunk! But I do think you were too hard on Miki. Miki simply said give it a bit more time, perhaps something did happen but won't be visable to main-line news for a short period from now. And at that time we will trace it back to October. She is showing grace. But I have seen Miki speaking like you too, Blindzebra. And me too!

Actually you had some good points. It troubled me too how he was like Bush's spokesmen. That didn't sit well with me either. One thing that did happen on Oct. 31st was the nominating of that guy to the supreme court. Kind of wondered if Buch timed it ot Oct 31 on purpose as he very likely knows all about Kim's prophecy? There are many reasons to be skeptical of Kim as I said in the opening post. On the other hand --- we must be careful how we go about exposing someone. We are not even to speak about the devil disrespectfully. Yet, there are many examples of harsh words used against false prophets, aren't there? So Blindzebra is not without biblical precedent. Paul, too, said that he burned with indignation because of those leading others astray. The balance is hard to find, which is why I say to everyone very often that we need to be patient with each other and not be so easily offended at each other's tone at times.

But remember this too, the bible says, "Love believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things. Whether there be prophecy...it will pass away."

In my original post (at top) I said:

"Or is God testing our hearts to see "whether we love the Lord our God will all of our hearts and mind?"

I tend to believe this more than ever. Here is why. I had a dream just before church on Sunday that a brother had a study he wanted to share, but no one was interested. During the meeting after one brother spoke briefly I asked the brother who was in my dream if he had a word to share and I told him my dream. He said yes, and pulled out his many notes. It was all about false prophets and what motivates them. He quoted this verse, (which was the main verse that we discussed). Afterward I wondered why this dream. I figured God must be trying to tell me something. Then on Oct. 31st (that is, the next day) I thought of the Kim prophecy and the nomination of that guy, and wondered whether Kim will claim that as a partial fulfillment --- a foretaste of what is to come. Here is the text:

Deu 13:1 If there arise in the midst of thee a prophet, or a dreamer of dreams, and he give thee a sign or a wonder,
Deu 13:2 and the sign or the wonder come to pass, whereof he spake unto thee, saying, Let us go after other gods, which thou hast not known, and let us serve them;
Deu 13:3 thou shalt not hearken unto the words of that prophet, or unto that dreamer of dreams: for Jehovah your God proveth you, to know whether ye love Jehovah your God with all your heart and with all your soul.
Deu 13:4 Ye shall walk after Jehovah your God, and fear him, and keep his commandments, and obey his voice, and ye shall serve him, and cleave unto him.
Deu 13:5 And that prophet, or that dreamer of dreams, shall be put to death, because he hath spoken rebellion against Jehovah your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, and redeemed thee out of the house of bondage, to draw thee aside out of the way which Jehovah thy God commanded thee to walk in. So shalt thou put away the evil from the midst of thee.
Deu 13:6 If thy brother, the son of thy mother, or thy son, or thy daughter, or the wife of thy bosom, or thy friend, that is as thine own soul, entice thee secretly, saying, Let us go and serve other gods, which thou hast not known, thou, nor thy fathers;
Deu 13:7 of the gods of the peoples that are round about you, nigh unto thee, or far off from thee, from the one end of the earth even unto the other end of the earth;
Deu 13:8 thou shalt not consent unto him, nor hearken unto him; neither shall thine eye pity him, neither shalt thou spare, neither shalt thou conceal him:
Deu 13:9 but thou shalt surely kill him; thy hand shall be first upon him to put him to death, and afterwards the hand of all the people.
Deu 13:10 And thou shalt stone him to death with stones, because he hath sought to draw thee away from Jehovah thy God, who brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.
Deu 13:11 And all Israel shall hear, and fear, and shall do not more any such wickedness as this is in the midst of thee.
Deu 13:12 If thou shalt hear tell concerning one of thy cities, which Jehovah thy God giveth thee to dwell there, saying,
Deu 13:13 Certain base fellows are gone out from the midst of thee, and have drawn away the inhabitants of their city, saying, Let us go and serve other gods, which ye have not known;
Deu 13:14 then shalt thou inquire, and make search, and ask diligently; and, behold, if it be truth, and the thing certain, that such abomination is wrought in the midst of thee,
Deu 13:15 thou shalt surely smite the inhabitants of that city with the edge of the sword, destroying it utterly, and all that is therein and the cattle thereof, with the edge of the sword.
Deu 13:16 And thou shalt gather all the spoil of it into the midst of the street thereof, and shalt burn with fire the city, and all the spoil thereof every whit, unto Jehovah thy God: and it shall be a heap for ever; it shall not be built again.
Deu 13:17 And there shall cleave nought of the devoted thing to thy hand; that Jehovah may turn from the fierceness of his anger, and show thee mercy, and have compassion upon thee, and multiply thee, as he hath sworn unto thy fathers;
Deu 13:18 when thou shalt hearken to the voice of Jehovah thy God, to keep all his commandments which I command thee this day, to do that which is right in the eyes of Jehovah thy God.

Notice that the above verse is plain in that the false prophet is getting the people to serve other gods. This is obvious. But Kim is not doing that directly. But there are other verses we looked at such as, "You shall know a tree by its fruits." The bible talks about those that preach "godliness is a means to financial gain." They, too, are false prophets. And Kim rings loud with this sort of thing.

1Ti 6:3 If any man teacheth a different doctrine, and consenteth not to sound words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness;
1Ti 6:4 he is puffed up, knowing nothing, but doting about questionings and disputes of words, whereof cometh envy, strife, railings, evil surmisings,
1Ti 6:5 wranglings of men corrupted in mind and bereft of the truth, supposing that godliness is a way of gain.
1Ti 6:6 But godliness with contentment is great gain:
1Ti 6:7 for we brought nothing into the world, for neither can we carry anything out;
1Ti 6:8 but having food and covering we shall be therewith content.
1Ti 6:9 But they that are minded to be rich fall into a temptation and a snare and many foolish and hurtful lusts, such as drown men in destruction and perdition.
1Ti 6:10 For the love of money is a root of all kinds of evil: which some reaching after have been led astray from the faith, and have pierced themselves through with many sorrows.
1Ti 6:11 But thou, O man of God, flee these things; and follow after righteousness, godliness, faith, love, patience, meekness.
1Ti 6:12 Fight the good fight of the faith, lay hold on the life eternal, whereunto thou wast called, and didst confess the good confession in the sight of many witnesses.
1Ti 6:13 I charge thee in the sight of God, who giveth life to all things, and of Christ Jesus, who before Pontius Pilate witnessed the good confession;
1Ti 6:14 that thou keep the commandment, without spot, without reproach, until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ:
1Ti 6:15 which in its own times he shall show, who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords;
1Ti 6:16 who only hath immortality, dwelling in light unapproachable; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honor and power eternal. Amen.
1Ti 6:17 Charge them that are rich in this present world, that they be not highminded, nor have their hope set on the uncertainty of riches, but on God, who giveth us richly all things to enjoy;
1Ti 6:18 that they do good, that they be rich in good works, that they be ready to distribute, willing to communicate;
1Ti 6:19 laying up in store for themselves a good foundation against the time to come, that they may lay hold on the life which is life indeed.
1Ti 6:20 O Timothy, guard that which is committed unto thee, turning away from the profane babblings and oppositions of the knowledge which is falsely so called;
1Ti 6:21 which some professing have erred concerning the faith. Grace be with you.

This is the first time that Ive read this topic. A few years ago my old church let in a so called "prophet". This man basically ripped the church in two and it was only when I got down on my knees and begged God to show me through his Word whether he was a false prophet or not, that I could have peace.

I spent nearly 7 hours studying the bible and God showed me by his wonderful Holy Spirit, scriptures that I had NEVER understood or took in before as I was still a baby christian. I highlighted every bit of scripture that the Lord gave me and it was powerful stuff. What He showed me was that the man was a heretic and I thank God that he was faithful to me.

I am going to dig out that bible with the references and will post them on here later.

ABSOLUTELY Shekel .

I bothered to go to the K.(F.) C page , ( fast prophecy page)
and read one of his prophecies .


Sorry , but my immediate feeling was that I was reading a political idealogue rehashed as prophecy .

C'mon ...the house that is White . ....sounds more like one of Madame Belakovsky's seances .....

Laugh if it wasn't so serious

Hello,

I have questioned Kim Clement and his prophesies. I do not believe he is a true prophet of GOD. He did state that something major was to happen on Halloween. Not only did Kim Clement scare people, but he also mislead them. A true prophet of GOD is accurate all of the time, and not part of the time. GOD knows the time and the hour of what is to come. I am glad that my spirit lead me to question Kim Clement because I did not feel right about him.

Oceana

OK, here we go:

PROPHET:
> a spiritually mature spokesperson / proclaimer with a special,divinely focused message to the church or the world. A person uniquely gifted at times with insight into future events

PROPHECY:
> to speak with forthrightness and insight, especially when enabled by the Spirit of God (Joel 2:28)

> To demonstrate moral boldness and uncompromising commitment to worthy values.

> To influence others in one's arena of influence with a positive spirit of social or spiritual righteousness.

(1 Cor. 14:5) - The office-gift of the prophet, which Christ gives to His church through individual ministries, is yet another expression of prophecy: those holding office must meet both the Old Testament requirements of a prophets accuracy in his message and the New Testament standards of life and character required of spiritual leadership.

1 John 4:1: - Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits, whether they are of God; becaused many false prophets have gone out into the world.

Believers are not to be so gullible they indiscriminately accept the pronouncements of all prophets who claim to of God, that is, to speak with divine authority and under divine inspiration. A spirit is indeed behind every prophet, but it may be a false spirit, described as "the spirit of the antichrist" (verse 3) and the "spirit of error" (verse 6) rather than the Spirit of God who is the spirit of truth. Therefore we must test the spirit behind them to determine their origin.

All true prophesy rests in and upon Christ, the Foundation. Jesus Christ has to be the focus. Prophesy not Christ - Centred Is Disqualified.

Amen!

hi guys it is bullsie, first of all i am so glad that i found this site. you have all been a blessing to me. i needed to hear all of you speak and you all answered. your words are all so sweet to me yu have all spoke to my wounded heart. today is better than yesterday. all i ask is pray for my passion to come back. when you go through any hurt a divorce a death, cancer anything it takes time for your passion to come back. you have all started me in the right direction. i know one thing i trust people to much,and always get burnt. i will seek god even more. satan tried to destory my faith. I will not let that happen. as arnold says i'll be back! cornilius said to ms him. i don't know how if you can tell me i will. my e- mail is rawlingsp8@aol.com if anyone wants to e-mail me. thank you all love bullsie

Thank you for you kind words Bullsie.

Sorry you have been hurt, I have too in the past, it really seems to cut you deep when you are hurt by another Christian or Church. Be strong and put the armour back on and march on to glory!!

I can relate to what you say about this forum. It has been a blessing to me and has played a HUGE part in bringing me back to the Lord after 8 years of backsliding. My passion is back and praising and worshipping Jesus has lit the fire inside again.

thank you for your words. i won't quit thank you again god bless you bullsie

That prophecy was generally fulfilled but he was wrong on the details. The Gentiles bound him not the Jews and The Jews didn't hand him over to the Romans but the Romans rescued him from an angry mob of Jews that were trying to kill him.

Nothing happened to Agabus and he was a well know Prophet.
New Testament Prophecy is fallible and must be judged and weighed carefully.

In the OT, the govt and the religion were the same: The Mosaic Law.
So, the Jews had the authority (and the directive from the Lord) to stone false prophets.

In the time of Agabus, (the NT), No-one, except the Roman authorities, had the authority or right to execute or punish a false prophet. And the Roman Ceasar didn't care about the false prophet's errors.

Today, the OT says: Execute the Adulterer. But, I can't execute my adulter-ing neighbor. The Sheriff would throw me into Jail.
Today, a LOT of crimes have been legalized (certain kinds of lying and stealing, adultery, abortion, homo sex, cursing the Lord's Name, striking a parent, etc). These crimes are still il-legal from God's point-of-view, but man has legalized it.

And, today, we're in the Age of Grace. I've done many things which I should have been executed for. But, the Lord has let me live (this far). Our Lord has given me better than I deserve.
Jesus commanded us to "Follow Me". So, I don't give my neighbor what he deserves. I give him better than he deserves.
I forgive him 70 times 7 times.

dennis manning

He was never heralded as a false prophet but was held in esteem by even the apostles.

AAAHHHHH!!!!!

This topic I ignored for so long 'cause I don't know who you're talking about, but now I really got to know.....when and what channel? I would like to see who this is. I'm Central time.

leia

Miki ,

you touch on a very difficult issue .

DOUBT .

---------------

In fact your message coalesces alot of things that have been discussed on this board over the months .

To simply dismiss Agabus as a false prophet is outrageous .

If there was aproblem with his prophecy , don't you think that it would have been picked up by the apostles ?

Leaving Agabus aside (for now) , in Acts 21 v 4 we hear that the disciples tell Paul , 'THROUGH THE SPIRIT' , not to go to Jerusalem .

And yet Paul is 'bound by the Spirit' to got to Jerusalem ( Acts 20v22)

You might think that God is double-minded reading this . Why is he saying contradictory things through the Holy Spirit ?

I think the answer is a lot easier to understand if we remember that the disciples are no different from us . They are flesh and blood people . Whosoever might have a spiritual calling as great as Paul's .

Peter got crippled by fear up on the mountain .
Jesus wanted to avoid the Cup of Suffering .

its the Human being thing . Flesh and blood . Even Jesus had to CONQUER the FLESHLY !!!!

Paul has to go to Jerusalem ..............BUT THIS IS TERRIFYING STUFF . The Jews want to RIP HIM to PIECES
.............and he knows , as well as if not better than anyone else , what a vicious Jew can be like !!

So when everyone around him , THROUGH THE PROMPTING OF THE SPIRIT , urges him not to go to Jerusalem , God is testing his resolve .

acts 20;22 Amplified Bible
Paul said "I am going to Jerusalem, bound by the (Holy) Spirit, and obligated and compelled by the convictions of my own spirit.


Acts 21;4 amplified
Prompted by the (Holy) Spirit (of Christ) they kept telling Paul not to set foot in Jerusalem.


acts 21;11
Agabus never said "Don't go to Jerusalem". He said that Paul would be bound, and turned over to the Romans.
**************

Paul obeyed his own personal revelation from God. And dis-obeyed the Spirit's revelation to others.

Perhaps, maybe, the others mis-stated the Spirit's exact words because of their emotions and love for Paul. Or our Bible-translation is less-than-perfect.
Or, the others got only a partial revelation from God.

God tested Abraham's faith. A horrific, and mind-boggling, test.

Perhaps, God was testing Paul's faith, with a horrific, and mind-boggling, test.

Remember, Paul HAD SEEN THE THIRD HEAVEN! We've never seen Heaven; we walk by faith. Paul walked by sight; he had seen Heaven. God's test of Paul's faith, needed to be an horrific test.

Jesus told doubting Thomas: "You have believed because you have seen. Blessed are those who have not seen, and yet, believed." That's us! Jesus told us, "You're blessed."

Blessed to NOT see the Third Heaven.
How 'bout that, Saints? We don't want miracles. We've got Faith!

dennis manning

You're grasping a little Dennis but that's OK we do that when it's not clear.

You're right Simplebaby...about just being human. Paul wanted to go because his general call was to go.

Was this some exception to the rule just because he got a word that a nasty trip was ahead? He heard and probably believed it and went anyway.

Was it a test? Or had God allowed it as preparation? Or both? That fact that it had errors makes you wonder if it was from God? Yet Agabus was still held in regard. Because it had errors it caught our eye. We wouldn't be discussing any of this today if it didn't have errors.

Do you think God gives us a word of knowledge or prophecy so we can tell others to warn so they repent? I think he also wants to prepare us. Spiritually, mentally, physically and emotionally.

I think he does it because his purpose isn't fulfilled.

If our purpose is fulfilled he let's us go like he did John the Baptist. He wasn't forewarned of his fate and doubted because of it... I felt sorry for John....I think he asked those questions to try and get Jesus to come....Jesus didn't come But happy are those that don't doubt.

Do you think God let's a prophet be wrong to punish because he's getting off on the wrong track because of unpure motives? I do.

Do you think God let's a prophet be right when he's a little off but he's been on his face before the Lord seeking mercy and guidance? I do.

Its very challenging to try and understand what is going on in Acts 20-22 .

But I don't see the Bible prompting us to see Agabus as a prophet in error , so I would be very careful about taking that conclusion .

I don't see why New Testament prophets differ from Old Testament ones .

2Pe 1:21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake [as they were] moved by the Holy Ghost.

What's changed ??

I tried to draw attention away from Agabus to a bigger 'differential' , that between Paul's communication with the Holy Ghost and the Disciples' .

Something is obviously going on and needs to be understood .

I know the perspective you're taking and it's good.

But God knows we'd dissect every part of the Bible and in so doing we'd realize some errors in the Agabus word.

See l don't get hung up on it.

His word was a little off but they didn't get hung up on it either.

Paul went forward regardless of the word.

He was just more prepared because of it.

Every detail in the word is there for a reason...don't you think?

Even though it isn't the main point....

well , more generally Miki , I think prophesy is a very important thing to understand .

Its very hard for us to understand how a God who neither lies nor has anyone to contradict his will , can have someone stand and pronounce in hs name that X Y and Z will come to pass in so and so's life , and they don't !

Ultimately you end up in the position I am in , and which I suppose many others on this board are in , of not trusting Churches nor wishing to go there .

I don't want to be fed lies !

And if they are not lies , and the fault lies within , well then no amount of church going is going to make any difference .

So that's the overall picture .

Then we get to Kim Clement Versus Agabus .


Clement seems to me a total illusionist . A spirtual illusionist . And disillusionist ...........because if you listen to him you'll end up disillusioned .

Agabus seems to me not worthy of being mentioned in the same breath . Here is a man who has succesfully predicted a famine . Now that's what I call prophecy !

And then he makes another prophecy which doesn't line up exactly , and what are we to make of him / it .
Its important , because its a prime example of prophecy in the early Church . -

------------------

It should be an open discussion really .
What's going on ?

I agree , like you , at first it looks like a false prophecy , in that it is inaccurate , and we don't believe that the Holy Spirit is inaccurate . But then it is approximate , uncannily approximate .

What's it all about ?

Probably Agabus , through the Holy Spirit , is speaking metaphorically ( like Jesus when he said I will raise this Temple in three days ) .

'Binding' and 'delivering' are metaphorical . The Jews will prepare Paul for State Execution just as Jesus was by the Jewish Leaders .

Peter was bound with his girdle ( John 21) ...........it means tied up for crucifixion .
Jesus was delivered to the Romans .

Maybe Agabus is telling Paul that he will be tried by the Jews , Constrained by The Jews , and handed to Roman Authorities to walk the last leg of his life , as Paul hints in Acts 20 v24 ...'that I might finish my course ' .

Once Paul goes to the Romans , he is held under house arrest for several (5?) years before being executed . His seizure by the Jewish Religious Leaders was the catalytic event leading to his eventual death .